Cyclists, insurance and road tax

AndrewJRenko

85603 wrote: »

You want pedestrian insurance??

:pac:

You said "Road users need insurance". Pedestrians use roads.

So YOU want pedestrians to have insurance.

Does it sound a bit silly now?

AndrewJRenko

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

I think without a doubt some sort of tax has to be applied on cyclists principally for new infrastructure. It will happen soon enough, it's just a case of how best to the levy charges. There is no free lunch.

Any thoughts on what sort of tax has to be applied on pedestrians principally for new footpaths - no free lunch etc etc?

AndrewJRenko

85603 wrote: »

Well pedestrian insurance would be a bit excessive.
Im sure you agree.

Cyclists are travelling at speed, on roads, accidents are inevitable.
So insurance is a reasonable ask.

Pedestrians cause collisions every day. Far more pedestrians are killed on the road than cyclists.

So why exactly would insurance be "reasonable" for cyclists but not for pedestrians?

Please show you workings, as they say.

Effects

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Any thoughts on what sort of tax has to be applied on pedestrians principally for new footpaths - no free lunch etc etc?

To be honest, it's not really fair that pedestrians pay no footpath tax, yet they get sole use of the footpath. It should be opened up for cars to drive on them if they like, seeing as they are paying the motor tax that pays for all the roads.

Beasty

EddieN75 wrote: »

Roads are for cars, etc

Their original purpose was for pedestrians, horses and carts. Bicycles outnumbered cars for a significant part of the time both have "been on the road"

Sono Topolino

I'm returning to Dublin after 10 May and I'm really not looking forward to the traffic.

Protected and segregated cycle lanes in cities are essential.

I'm happy to pay more taxes for this as long as cyclists pay their fair share.

Effects

EddieN75 wrote: »

If he had blocked the cycle lane would the cyclists have seen bothered by it?

I often get bothered by van drivers blocking cycle lanes. A lot of the time it's to save themselves 20 seconds at most, but they don't care about how much more it inconveniences someone else.

Sono Topolino

Effects wrote: »

I often get bothered by van drivers blocking cycle lanes. A lot of the time it's to save themselves 20 seconds at most, but they don't care about how much more it inconveniences someone else.

If they're making deliveries then they have to park near an entrance.

Same with taxis picking up people or droppimg them off.

Effects

Sono Topolino wrote: »

I'm happy to pay more taxes for this as long as cyclists pay their fair share.

But cyclists already pay large amounts of tax?

Effects

Sono Topolino wrote: »

If they're making deliveries then they have to park near an entrance.

Why do they need to park near an entrance, if they have to trolley their goods anyway? Most of them just don't bother to park properly as they are too lazy/don't care about other road users.

Fighting Tao

Sono Topolino wrote: »

If they're making deliveries then they have to park near an entrance.

Same with taxis picking up people or droppimg them off.

Can't delivery drivers park responsibly and walk a few metres? Case in point is deliveries to Off Beat Donuts on Westland Row. Vans and trucks would block the cycle track rather than park 50m way on Pearse St in a loading bay that was empty 99% of the time.

Can't taxi drivers stop in safe places? I've had it abroad where I've been told, "I can't let you out at x, but I'll drop you off over there". What makes taxi drivers here so special that so many need to inconvenience and endanger others?

Sono Topolino

Fighting Tao wrote: »

Can't delivery drivers park responsibly and walk a few metres? Case in point is deliveries to Off Beat Donuts on Westland Row. Vans and trucks would block the cycle track rather than park 50m way on Pearse St in a loading bay that was empty 99% of the time.

Can't taxi drivers stop in safe places? I've had it abroad where I've been told, "I can't let you out at x, but I'll drop you off over there". What makes taxi drivers here so special that so many need to inconvenience and endanger others?

Making life difficult for businesses is never going to make you popular.

Fighting Tao

Sono Topolino wrote: »

Making life difficult for businesses is never going to make you popular.

What are you actually trying to say? That delivery and taxi drivers would be making life difficult for businesses by being responsible?

Eric Cartman

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

I'm not wearing one because I don't want to and they're a hassle.
What's odd is the faux concern from motorists over helmets, you just want to make it more inconvenient for us and Ireland will never pass a helmet law so you're wasting your time.
And more cyclists = critical mass = more infrastructure, less cars, and more annoyance to motorists.

I know its tongue in cheek, but thats probably the most honest admission of cyclists begrudging aims in this thread.

Effects

Case in point. UPS driver wasn't bothered to drive into, and park in, the empty parking lot at the Skylon Hotel. So instead, he just parked up on the cycle path outside, forcing cyclists on to the road.

AndrewJRenko

85603 wrote: »

There are more accident categories than just fatalities.

The cars are insured for the same reasons you list.

And yes cyclists will inevitably cause accidents, and do, if just through the laws of probability, and human negligence.

And yes, pedestrians inevitably do cause collisions, stepping out in front of cars and bikes without looking, against traffic lights, so do you reckon that they need insurance?

Some quantitative basis for your answer would be great.

AndrewJRenko

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Why are so many cyclists so against anything like helmets that they see as deterring people from cycling. Surely they should just be happy that they themselves cycle, or is there a reason that they want so many more cyclists that isnt being explained here ? Surely keeping it a niche benefits them with more bike rack spaces and free-er cycle paths

Why are you so against helmets for car occupants, given that far more head injuries happen in cars than on bikes?

What's this irresistible urge to "fix" cycling all about?

Fighting Tao

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Why are you so against helmets for car occupants, given that far more head injuries happen in cars than on bikes?

What's this irresistible urge to "fix" cycling all about?

There is no urge from Eric. The last line gives his/her real intentions away. Make it niche!

Sono Topolino

Effects wrote: »

Case in point. UPS driver wasn't bothered to drive into, and park in, the empty parking lot at the Skylon Hotel. So instead, he just parked up on the cycle path outside, forcing cyclists on to the road.

The road is where cyclists belong according to some here.

The driver is doing an essential job - give him a break.

magicbastarder

what's the point of the cycling infrastructure so?

AndrewJRenko

magicbastarder wrote: »

in short, if your answer to the question 'how can we make cycling safer?' is 'helmets', you don't understand the problem.

Or to put it visually

AndrewJRenko

EddieN75 wrote: »

Oh I see. People who are actually working or delivery vehicles who are permitted to park briefly.

I have no issue then. No need to ring the Gardai. I thought you meant people just abandoning their vehicles for no real reason sort from rudeness and laziness.

No one is permitted to park, however briefly, on a clear way or a solid line cycle lane.

But they can stop in the main traffic lane and let the cars go around. It's just a few minutes, sure you know yourself.

Thelonious Monk

Eric Cartman wrote: »

I know its tongue in cheek, but thats probably the most honest admission of cyclists begrudging aims in this thread.

With all the flack cyclists get, I do actually enjoy how pissed off motorists get by new cycle lanes and car restrictions.

AndrewJRenko

Sono Topolino wrote: »

If they're making deliveries then they have to park near an entrance.

Same with taxis picking up people or droppimg them off.

Have you heard of trolleys?

Or of walking short distances?

They can stop on the main traffic lane.

AndrewJRenko

Sono Topolino wrote: »

I'm returning to Dublin after 10 May and I'm really not looking forward to the traffic.

Protected and segregated cycle lanes in cities are essential.

I'm happy to pay more taxes for this as long as cyclists pay their fair share.

Would you let us know when motorists are going to start paying their fair share please?

AndrewJRenko

Sono Topolino wrote: »

Making life difficult for businesses is never going to make you popular.

Make life difficult for customers, the people who work and live in the community around those businesses, is never going to make businesses popular with customers.

AndrewJRenko

Sono Topolino wrote: »

The road is where cyclists belong according to some here.

The driver is doing an essential job - give him a break.

Cyclists are travelling to and from their essential jobs as doctors, nurses, teachers and indeed delivery drivers, give them a break. Just park on the road, it will only be a few minutes.

Sono Topolino

magicbastarder wrote: »

what's the point of the cycling infrastructure so?

I support segregated cycling lanes with barriers.

That UPS van is parked on what used to be a parking bay - an example of how not to do cycling infrastructure.

EddieN75

Sono Topolino wrote: »

I support segregated cycling lanes with barriers.

That UPS van is parked on what used to be a parking bay - an example of how not to do cycling infrastructure.

That Ups van is delivering goods essential to business.

Cycling around the van isn't a big deal.

Fighting Tao

Sono Topolino wrote: »

The road is where cyclists belong according to some here.

The driver is doing an essential job - give him a break.

For all you know the driver could be delivering someones new mobile phone that they bought just because their old one was a year old and they fancied a change. Is that essential?