Cyclists, insurance and road tax

Fighting Tao

carfinder wrote: »

you know the type - self righteous all the way to the end - and meets trouble half way and gets in to plenty of arguments with motorists - especially elderly ones that cant defend themselves

So a person is cycling along minding their own business…how is that aggressive?

The only time I have seen a cyclist aggressive, is when motorists endanger their lives. It’s the natural body adrenaline rush that happens when you have had a near miss with a 2 tonne vehicle. Is that what you are referring to? If so, do you think they should be calm as day in that situation?

harmless

One factor lost on some people is that cars sweep debris into the left side of a driving lane,hard should or cycle lane.

If a cycalist holds their line in driving lane when there is room to move left with a car behind them there can be a reason.
It's impossible to see this debris from a car.

Does anyone know how frequently cycle lanes are cleaned in Dublin city?

Trekker09

carfinder wrote: »

Quite the post. I call out the demonstrable dismissive attitude of cyclists on this thread and you accuse me of being dismissive - what a logic fail!

Your post says a lot about you though - you admit to being aggressive on the road so I have no doubt you are one of "those" type of cyclists.
And I dont care whether you believe I cycle or not - its you and your fellow self righteous fellow cyclists trying to dismiss my stated position that cares - you know, so you can be dismissive:rolleyes:

Quite the attitude eh Oh, and what's your definition of 'self righteous' and 'aggressive'? If somebody puts my welfare at risk then I have every right to be peeved. Most drivers acknowledge their mistake, very few get nasty, but there are a few, and nearly always are the 'you shouldn't be on the road' line of thought.
The only feeling I have when I'm on the bike is vulnerable, certainly not self righteous! Oh, and where have I admitted to being aggressive on the road? You're twisting this around to suit your agenda Nice try, but no cigar My money is on you being one of "those" type of drivers

EddieN75

magicbastarder wrote: »

generally the near misses i would experience when out rural roads on the bike are oncoming motorists performing overtakes, even though i am oncoming traffic to them. i'm not sure what i can do to change my behaviour in that instance, in that if a motorist overtakes into oncoming traffic,they are 100% the ones in the wrong there.

This is true. Anyone who does that is an idiot. There is nothing you can do about it either. If there is a collision because of the drivers error you will pay the price.

carfinder

Trekker09 wrote: »

Quite the attitude eh Oh, and what's your definition of 'self righteous' and 'aggressive'? If somebody puts my welfare at risk then I have every right to be peeved. Most drivers acknowledge their mistake, very few get nasty, but there are a few, and nearly always are the 'you shouldn't be on the road' line of thought.
The only feeling I have when I'm on the bike is vulnerable, certainly not self righteous! Oh, and where have I admitted to being aggressive on the road? You're twisting this around to suit your agenda Nice try, but no cigar My money is on you being one of "those" type of drivers

So you are doubling down on the dismissiveness and you don't even realise it:rolleyes:
You display your aggression in most of your posts on this thread so far - again, self awareness isn't your strong point!
Yeah, I am one of "those" drivers - almost 30 years driving experience, no collision (touch wood, this continues). You, on the other hand admit to getting in to confrontations with other road users so I'm as certain as I can be on an anonymous website as to what type of cyclist you are;)

Hurrache

carfinder wrote: »

It gets very Orwellian - "two wheels good, four wheels bad" territory.

Not sure you understand Orwell considering when on a bike you're the one treated as second/third class and so on.

But below is hilarious too.

carfinder wrote: »

Notably, many cyclists that I observe do not.

Cant comment on your wife's experience but lets not get in the way of your strawman:rolleyes:

Trekker09

carfinder wrote: »

So you are doubling down on the dismissiveness and you don't even realise it:rolleyes:
You display your aggression in most of your posts on this thread so far - again, self awareness isn't your strong point!
Yeah, I am one of "those" drivers - almost 30 years driving experience, no collision (touch wood, this continues). You, on the other hand admit to getting in to confrontations with other road users so I'm as certain as I can be on an anonymous website as to what type of cyclist you are;)

Well I commute approximately 60 - 80km a day depending on the route, so am more likely to encounter near misses. The vast majority I just shrug my shoulders and accept it as this is par for the course here in Ireland, not so in other countries. If it is serious enough and I can make contact with the driver then of course I will have words with the driver. In most of these exchanges the driver acknowledges their mistake and it's a civil exchange. Usually when it gets heated, it's the driver that gets aggressive first because they won't accept responsibility. I'm quite a laid back person, even on the bike, but when my welfare is put in jeopardy I respond, as most people would. If you saw a driver put one of your kids at risk and you caught up with them, what would you do?

BabysCoffee

carfinder wrote: »

My own opinion is that many cyclists get a smug superiority complex once they get on a bike. It gets very Orwellian - "two wheels good, four wheels bad" territory. And many cyclists seem to conflate defensive cycling with aggressive cycling.
My own experience as a road user is that you must adapt your behaviour in line with the conditions e.g. on a hot summer day, expect lots of traffic - cars, pedestrians cyclists etc and expect the unexpected - kids running out on the road, cars parallel parking, etc. Most responsible road users adapt to the conditions. Notably, many cyclists that I observe do not.

Cant comment on your wife's experience but lets not get in the way of your strawman:rolleyes:
If your experience as a cyclist is soo poor, maybe you should limit yourself to segregated cycle tracks where you will feel safer

That may be your opinion but I can tell you that I don't get a smug superiority complex once I get on a bike. I just want to get to work and back safely on my fold up bike.

I can also tell you that my 70 yr old mother also does not have a smug superiority complex once on her bike. She just wants to safely get down and back from the local shops.

Can I clarify if you think a 12 yr old kid cycling to school has a smug superiority complex? Or maybe it is the mum cycling her children to school in her cargo bike that has the smug superiority complex?

carfinder

Trekker09 wrote: »

Well I commute approximately 60 - 80km a day depending on the route, so am more likely to encounter near misses. The vast majority I just shrug my shoulders and accept it as this is par for the course here in Ireland, not so in other countries. If it is serious enough and I can make contact with the driver then of course I will have words with the driver. In most of these exchanges the driver acknowledges their mistake and it's a civil exchange. Usually when it gets heated, it's the driver that gets aggressive first because they won't accept responsibility. I'm quite a laid back person, even on the bike, but when my welfare is put in jeopardy I respond, as most people would. If you saw a driver put one of your kids at risk and you caught up with them, what would you do?

I tend not to catch up with, or engage with other road users at all - you don't know what kind of person you could be engaging with. From the way you phrased your post, it sounds like this is a regular occurance for you - it sounds like an aggressive and potentially dangerous way to behave!

CHESSMUTANT

carfinder wrote: »

It gets very Orwellian

Can confirm. My four year old recently learned to ride her first pedal bike and now refuses to eat her broccoli, claiming that it's double plus ungood.

Trekker09

carfinder wrote: »

I tend not to catch up with, or engage with other road users at all - you don't know what kind of person you could be engaging with. From the way you phrased your post, it sounds like this is a regular occurance for you - it sounds like an aggressive and potentially dangerous way to behave!

Only if you engage with them in an aggressive manner 1st Have you commuted on a regular basis?

What is a regular occurance is motorists putting me at risk through their lack of consideration/judgement and more often than not breaking the rules of the road. Should I just be passive and accept the behaviour?

Padre_Pio

I cannot believe there are nearly 2000 posts of circular arguments on this thread.

Fighting Tao

Padre_Pio wrote: »

I cannot believe there are nearly 2000 posts of circular arguments on this thread.

You’d have to be a saint to read the same crap put forward over and over. :pac:

magicbastarder

Padre_Pio wrote: »

I cannot believe there are nearly 2000 posts of circular arguments on this thread.

too many possible puns.

magicbastarder

Hurrache wrote: »

Not sure you understand Orwell

maybe (s)he was referring to the cycling club.

carfinder

CHESSMUTANT wrote: »

Can confirm. My four year old recently learned to ride her first pedal bike and now refuses to eat her broccoli, claiming that it's double plus ungood.

Get her in to counselling as soon as possible - sounds fairly serious, the poor thing!

AndrewJRenko

carfinder wrote: »

you know the type - self righteous all the way to the end - and meets trouble half way and gets in to plenty of arguments with motorists - especially elderly ones that cant defend themselves

What are the 'plenty of arguments' about?

carfinder

Trekker09 wrote: »

Only if you engage with them in an aggressive manner 1st Have you commuted on a regular basis?

What is a regular occurance is motorists putting me at risk through their lack of consideration/judgement and more often than not breaking the rules of the road. Should I just be passive and accept the behaviour?

You obviously lack the self awareness to understand that catching up to remonstrate with the "offending" motorist is, in and of itself, aggressive and could easily be viewed as a breach of the peace. Report your near misses to the gardai. Any motorist you remonstrate with could react to your aggression, aggressively! But you're so full of your own self righteousness that you proclaim your right to police the roads and right whatever wrong inflicted on you. I hope you don't meet a violent aggressive motorist but you are stacking the odds firmly in favour of it happening to you:eek:

carfinder

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

What are the 'plenty of arguments' about?

ask Trekker09 - its his thing, apparently

Fighting Tao

Avoiding all questions about how someone cycling along minding their own business is aggressive carfinder, and if you are referencing peoples reaction when someone endangers their lives?

Trekker09

carfinder wrote: »

You obviously lack the self awareness to understand that catching up to remonstrate with the "offending" motorist is, in and of itself, aggressive and could easily be viewed as a breach of the peace. Report your near misses to the gardai. Any motorist you remonstrate with could react to your aggression, aggressively! But you're so full of your own self righteousness that you proclaim your right to police the roads and right whatever wrong inflicted on you. I hope you don't meet a violent aggressive motorist but you are stacking the odds firmly in favour of it happening to you:eek:

I hope your driving skills are better than your comprehension skills

I don't 'catch up' to remonstrate with anybody, but if it's serious enough and the opportunity arises then I will say it to them, even if it's to let them know that I'll be reporting them the Guards. This has occurred twice in all my years cycling and on the last occasion the driver was well over the limit.

You mistake self righteousness for self preservation. Your rant indicates that you form your opinions based on hearsay and certainly not facts. How would you react if a cyclist indicated to you that your driving put them at risk and they have the video footage to prove it?

AndrewJRenko

carfinder wrote: »

ask Trekker09 - its his thing, apparently

You said 'you know the type'. So for the types of cyclists that you know that have plenty of arguments with motorists, what are these arguments generally about?

carfinder

Trekker09 wrote: »

I hope your driving skills are better than your comprehension skills

I don't 'catch up' to remonstrate with anybody, but if it's serious enough and the opportunity arises then I will say it to them, even if it's to let them know that I'll be reporting them the Guards. This has occurred twice in all my years cycling and on the last occasion the driver was well over the limit.

You mistake self righteousness for self preservation. Your rant indicates that you form your opinions based on hearsay and certainly not facts. How would you react if a cyclist indicated to you that your driving put them at risk and they have the video footage to prove it?

You have amply demonstrated your behaviour via your numerous posts on this thread. I really hope you don't meet the kind of trouble you're inviting upon yourself. It's laughable that you try to change your story when I point out your aggression. You should go back and edit your earlier posts as your credibility is shot to bits:eek:

Hurrache

carfinder wrote: »

You have amply demonstrated your behaviour via your numerous posts on this thread. I really hope you don't meet the kind of trouble you're inviting upon yourself. It's laughable that you try to change your story when I point out your aggression. You should go back and edit your earlier posts as your credibility is shot to bits:eek:

I think you need to give up, you're only digging yourself deeper.

Trekker09

carfinder wrote: »

You have amply demonstrated your behaviour via your numerous posts on this thread. I really hope you don't meet the kind of trouble you're inviting upon yourself. It's laughable that you try to change your story when I point out your aggression. You should go back and edit your earlier posts as your credibility is shot to bits:eek:

Oh dear Think it's a bit early to be on the grog pal, sleep it off

carfinder

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

You said 'you know the type'. So for the types of cyclists that you know that have plenty of arguments with motorists, what are these arguments generally about?

Generally aggressive exchanges like the one I witnessed on Saturday where a cyclist on the footpath starting banging on a car exiting a Service station. He thought better of it when the drivers boyfriend/husband jumped out of the passenger seat and the cyclist retreated like the coward he is.

carfinder

Trekker09 wrote: »

Oh dear Think it's a bit early to be on the grog pal, sleep it off

Poor response - but I am tiring of playing with you. You make it too easy;)

Trekker09

carfinder wrote: »

Generally aggressive exchanges like the one I witnessed on Saturday where a cyclist on the footpath starting banging on a car exiting a Service station. He thought better of it when the drivers boyfriend/husband jumped out of the passenger seat and retreated like the coward he is.

So you're applauding aggression on behalf of the driver here then and yet you dare mention credibility

Trekker09

carfinder wrote: »

Poor response - but I am tiring of playing with you. You make it too easy;)

You're out of your depth and making an absolute fool out of yourself.

Too much pent up aggression, think you need to take up a hobby

BabysCoffee

carfinder wrote: »

Generally aggressive exchanges like the one I witnessed on Saturday where a cyclist on the footpath starting banging on a car exiting a Service station. He thought better of it when the drivers boyfriend/husband jumped out of the passenger seat and the cyclist retreated like the coward he is.

I've no idea what your point is here and in your other posts.

You seem to be calling the cyclist cowardly in this instance for engaging with the driver.

But then in other posts you give out about cyclists being "aggressive" for engaging with drivers and tell them to only report issues to the guards.

I'm confused. Is the cyclist in this one of your stories an "aggressive coward"

What point are you trying to make about cyclists?? I think there is some serious generalizations being made. You don't know me, my mother and my sister. We are all cyclists but I wouldn't describe any of us as being a coward or being aggressive. We are just regular people doing what we do on bikes....or sometimes on buses and trains......and sometimes cars too (except my mother who doesn't drive - but my Dad does......oh and he cycles too, from time to time, as a 76 yr old).

I guess you could say we are a bit of a cycling family......but definitely not aggressive cycling cowards.