Manchester United Teamtalk/Transfer/Gossip 23/24 - [New Thread Available]

Pussyhands

Whatsisname wrote: »

His brother mentioned on Twitter not too long ago he’s been playing injured for 18 months. Presumably with his back, ankle and shoulder. He’s due to have surgery too, which he’s put off for a while I think. He could probably do with missing the euros but it won’t happen. I wouldn’t be surprised to see him wash up like Rooney at 28/29.

He was one dimensional tonight. All he did was try knock the ball past the defender. Foyth had him in his pocket all night.

budgie412

budgie412 wrote: »

Not going anywhere under Ole. For 2 years he has refused to utilise his squad. Still doesn't trust his bench. After 2 years. His players. He does not trust his squad. HIS SQUAD. Holding back the substitutes for the shootout only? Joke. Ole goes.

How does Ole above anyone not see the value of impact off the bench.

Dozyart

Headshot wrote: »

Ole you are as far away from winning a major trophy than I am from winning the lotto

is he in here? :pac:

nullzero

[Deleted User] wrote: »

How does Ole above anyone not see the value of impact off the bench.

The irony isn't lost on us at least.

y0ssar1an22

pjohnson wrote: »

The DVDB experiment has been complete and utter waste of time for everyone involved.

what about the ole experiment? doomed to fail. imagine a manager managing a club who some say is the biggest in the world, being managed by that.

he won a title in norway? graham potter won 1 in sweden

RobbingBandit

Liam O wrote: »

What had LVG won in the period before United got him?

Ajax

Eredivisie: 1993–94, 1994–95, 1995–96
KNVB Cup: 1992–93
Johan Cruyff Shield: 1993, 1994, 1995
UEFA Champions League: 1994–95
UEFA Cup: 1991–92
UEFA Super Cup: 1995
Intercontinental Cup: 1995

Barcelona

La Liga: 1997–98, 1998–99
Copa del Rey: 1997–98
UEFA Super Cup: 1997
AZ[114]

Eredivisie: 2008–09

Bayern Munich

Bundesliga: 2009–10
DFB-Pokal: 2009–10
DFL-Supercup: 2010

Ninthlife

Ole gets next season, he wont be going anywhere unless he walks out himself

Liam O

Dozyart wrote: »

The must annoying thing tonight is that the Ole Out brigade are just going to rub each other raw for the whole summer!

Or the fact that some can't look at things that aren't black and white. This is like an American red and blue mindset where if you don't think one thing you're automatically the other. Ole Out, Ole In, I'm neither, what am I?

So the most annoying thing is that people will criticise the manager for his team yet again bottling it when the pressure is on? Right.

adox

DM_7 wrote: »

I think Ole messed up tonight and that is from someone who likes him.

Players like Telles, Mata, Donny just had to be involved in the game in the second half. Keep energy levels up and keep control of the game, push for a goal. Instead he lets his players wilt and hand even more control to the team playing a reserved style.

I bet Cavani is raging after that.

Pens are what they are and the mistake is ending up in a shoot out to start with.

Not just tonight unfortunately. It’s been his mo and was predictable tonight.

I felt sorry for him in the interview. He was shattered by the defeat and he really does care.

He’s just not good enough.

Father Hernandez

Rashford passionate enough interview here.

I like him but a lot of talk and not a lot of action on the pitch.

Talk will only do so much, Ole is good at it too.

Results and success not there. Lots of fluff.

Rather the talk on the pitch.

wanderer100

Pussyhands wrote: »

Mourinho and LVG didn't work so we should never sign proven mangers ever again?

By the way, they both won trophies...

I really can't be arsed right now to get into an OleOut debate. I'm knackered after that game.

But what I will say is Ole isn't going anywhere whether you like it or not. You're lying if you say you were happier with the United team and the football we were playing under LVG or Jose.

y0ssar1an22

DM_7 wrote: »

I think Ole messed up tonight and that is from someone who likes him.

Players like Telles, Mata, Donny just had to be involved in the game in the second half. Keep energy levels up and keep control of the game, push for a goal. Instead he lets his players wilt and hand even more control to the team playing a reserved style.

I bet Cavani is raging after that.

Pens are what they are and the mistake is ending up in a shoot out to start with.

it wouldn't surprise me if cavani swung at someone after that.

Mitch Connor

Furious that ole made essentially no effort to change the game.

You will struggle to find a manager make as little effort to win a trophy as he just did.

FourFourRED

Really liked that interview from Rashford there.

Ninthlife

FourFourRED wrote: »

Really liked that interview from Rashford there.

What did he say?

y0ssar1an22

Father Hernandez wrote: »

Rashford passionate enough interview here.

I like him but a lot of talk and not a lot of action on the pitch.

Talk will only do so much, Ole is good at it too.

Results and success not there. Lots of fluff.

Rather the talk on the pitch.

he was fecking awful as well.

but how has ole not told him after 2.5 years, stop dribbling into a crowd with your head down?

well thats easy, ole is clueless

PARlance

FourFourRED wrote: »

Really liked that interview from Rashford there.

We're getting really really good at saying the right things off the pitch!

Drumpot

Headshot wrote: »

I call it the Arsenal mentality

Which starts from the top and very quickly erodes the myth of the club and the quality of the squad.

Ninthlife

Ninthlife wrote: »

Ole gets next season, he wont be going anywhere unless he walks out himself

Ole needs someone else in his ear other than Mike Phelan if is is to progress. While I don’t doubt he is a good coach, ultimately he was Fergies yes man. Ole needs someone to challenge some of his assumptions if he is to continue this story. Fergie recognised this in himself when he bought in Quiroz. Ole needs to be confident and brave enough to demand the same

Liam O

RobbingBandit wrote: »

Ajax

Eredivisie: 1993–94, 1994–95, 1995–96
KNVB Cup: 1992–93
Johan Cruyff Shield: 1993, 1994, 1995
UEFA Champions League: 1994–95
UEFA Cup: 1991–92
UEFA Super Cup: 1995
Intercontinental Cup: 1995

Barcelona

La Liga: 1997–98, 1998–99
Copa del Rey: 1997–98
UEFA Super Cup: 1997
AZ[114]

Eredivisie: 2008–09

Bayern Munich

Bundesliga: 2009–10
DFB-Pokal: 2009–10
DFL-Supercup: 2010

So in the period before United he won the Bundesliga and Pokal double with Bayern 1 of his 2 seasons there, and a Dutch league with AZ(admittedly a great achievement).

But sure 10 years before that he was on fire!

y0ssar1an22

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Furious that ole made essentially no effort to change the game.

You will struggle to find a manager make as little effort to win a trophy as he just did.

does he ever? he sits in his little safe space looking at a monitor.

what is the defense of ole again? he's harmonised the squad? okay, your job is done, see you later. 9m quid a year? what a joke if he accepts that.

dubmick

Really good interview from Rashford. A great kid but my jaysus he was brutal tonight.

Scorpion Sting

Very disappointed in that performance. Our big name players (Bruno, Pogba and Rashford) just didn't show up.

It says it all when McTominay was our best player on the night. Cavani also did well in fairness.

We definitely need 3 or 4 big signings in the summer to get where we want to be. My confidence in Solskjaer is waning by the day though.

nullzero

At least we don't have to watch this sorry excuse of a Manchester United side again for a couple of months.

Liam O

wanderer100 wrote: »

I really can't be arsed right now to get into an OleOut debate. I'm knackered after that game.

But what I will say is Ole isn't going anywhere whether you like it or not. You're lying if you say you were happier with the United team and the football we were playing under LVG or Jose.

I was happy with the football under José when they came 2nd. Very similar to this season with a bit more quality up front then probably. As much as I wasn't a Lukaku fan, he is miles better as a striker than Martial.

El Gato De Negocios

Dozyart wrote: »

The must annoying thing tonight is that the Ole Out brigade are just going to rub each other raw for the whole summer!

Do you think we are going to win anything under ole, never mind the two biggest trophies?

Cos I don't.

So whats the alternative? Keep him and be happy to be Arsenal during the latter part of Wengers tenure and have CL qualification as the aim for the season?

Fcuk that tbh.

Ole has once again proven that he is a poor manager with the tactical awareness of a bag of marrowfat peas. The team finished top 4 this season in spite of him not because of him.

Ninthlife

nullzero wrote: »

At least we don't have to watch this sorry excuse of a Manchester United side again for a couple of months.

Ah come on..that a bit ott.

Ive enjoyed watching United again. Ok they fell short but if youre that annoyed by it maybe just dont watch them al all again

Liam O

Scorpion Sting wrote: »

Very disappointed in that performance. Our big name players (Bruno, Pogba and Rashford) just didn't show up.

It says it all when McTominay was our best player on the night. Cavani also did well in fairness.

We definitely need 3 or 4 big signings in the summer to get where we want to be. My confidence in Solskjaer is waning by the day though.

Is McTominay the new Fellaini where he's just going to play better than those around around him constantly and face derisory comments for doing so? He's been excellent for a few years now when played and people act like he's just a clogger.

I do agree with the rest of your post though. Though it's to blame a lot of them for not showing up when there is no tactical plan to get the best out of them and basically playing with 1 CM.

y0ssar1an22

Deleted User wrote: »

Ole needs someone else in his ear other than Mike Phelan if is is to progress. While I don’t doubt he is a good coach, ultimately he was Fergies yes man. Ole needs someone to challenge some of his assumptions if he is to continue this story. Fergie recognised this in himself when he bought in Quiroz. Ole needs to be confident and brave enough to demand the same

are you actually saying the utd manager needs someone else to help him?

why not just get a manager with a clue.

what do you mean challenge him for his assumptions?

he doesnt even have a philosophy. give it to bruno and hope for the best. i could do that.

pathetic. he should be gone. should never have been appointed.


would anyone here be happy if bob bradley was the next utd manager? same pedigree as ole.

Scorpion Sting

Liam O wrote: »

Is McTominay the new Fellaini where he's just going to play better than those around around him constantly and face derisory comments for doing so? He's been excellent for a few years now when played and people act like he's just a clogger.

I do agree with the rest of your post though. Though it's to blame a lot of them for not showing up when there is no tactical plan to get the best out of them and basically playing with 1 CM.

It wasn't meant as derisory in the slightest actually. I love McTominay.

I just think when he is our star player in a huge European game it shows we have been under the cosh.

If we had been dominating as you'd have thought seeing as we were big favourites I'd have expected those big name players especially Bruno to step up.

Liam O

El Gato De Negocios wrote: »

Do you think we are going to win anything under ole, never mind the two biggest trophies?

Cos I don't.

So whats the alternative? Keep him and be happy to be Arsenal during the latter part of Wengers tenure and have CL qualification as the aim for the season?

Fcuk that tbh.

Ole has once again proven that he is a poor manager with the tactical awareness of a bag of marrowfat peas. The team finished top 4 this season in spite of him not because of him.

I think Ole would be a good manager with better players than United currently have. Have him just manage personalities and he's fine. If United's squad was where it should be they'd be able to blow teams away.

Alas when it comes down to it there is no tactics other than go out there and stand here. No uniform approach to pressing or passing and no philosophy. Players happy to stroll around when it suits them and no repercussions for not giving their all. What happened to the fittest team in the league?

y0ssar1an22

Scorpion Sting wrote: »

Very disappointed in that performance. Our big name players (Bruno, Pogba and Rashford) just didn't show up.

It says it all when McTominay was our best player on the night. Cavani also did well in fairness.

We definitely need 3 or 4 big signings in the summer to get where we want to be. My confidence in Solskjaer is waning by the day though.

thats fair enough if that's how you want to rationalize it...its because the big players didnt play well.

how often has that happened?

Liam O

y0ssar1an22 wrote: »

are you actually saying the utd manager needs someone else to help him?

why not just get a manager with a clue.

what do you mean challenge him for his assumptions?

he doesnt even have a philosophy. give it to bruno and hope for the best. i could do that.

pathetic. he should be gone. should never have been appointed.


would anyone here be happy if bob bradley was the next utd manager? same pedigree as ole.

The weird thing is they don't even give it to Bruno. McT tries the odd time but a lot of times the ball goes into midfield and straight back where it came from.

nullzero

Ninthlife wrote: »

Ah come on..that a bit ott.

Ive enjoyed watching United again. Ok they fell short but if youre that annoyed by it maybe just dont watch them al all again

Fell short?

Seriously, I can't get my head around this mentality.

Solksjaer consistently over works his players to the point that they are too tired to perform at the end of every season.

We're defensively naive and have been for years and our manager is the cheap option the owners initially brought in to keep fans happy after Hurricane Jose blew through the club.

With that squad we should be doing better, it isn't a silverware winning squad by any means but properly rotated it has more potential. Potential Solksjaer will never realise.

RobbingBandit

Liam O wrote: »

So in the period before United he won the Bundesliga and Pokal double with Bayern 1 of his 2 seasons there, and a Dutch league with AZ(admittedly a great achievement).

But sure 10 years before that he was on fire!

It proves he is a proven winner same as Jose they just didn't click with United at the time they became manager but for LVG he had the win with AZ won loads with Ajax and did good things in Germany but I suppose Giovanni Trapatoni won domestic honours as a manager and didn't amount to much as The Ireland Manager, football is a funny old game.

Now I'm off to cry after tonight it was a tough watch so many horrible misses poor De Gea must be devastated.

jk23

The players with talent aren't driven enough to win bar Bruno and Cavani...Rashford strolling around the pitch

The players that aren't good enough to play like Fred and Lindelof seemingly are a big part of Oles plans

Van de Beek?? Why was he bought...Old bringing him on with 3/4 minutes left in games and then when has a half decent game vs wolves he doesn't even use him tonight

Scorpion Sting

y0ssar1an22 wrote: »

thats fair enough if that's how you want to rationalize it...its because the big players didnt play well.

how often has that happened?

Too many times and for various reasons. Rashford has been played way too much and badly needs a rest which is unlikely with the Euros happening.

Pogba only seems to play well when he feels like it but to be fair to him he has been much better this season than in the last few seasons. He's better when played in an attacking role though.

Bruno has carried us to victory in several games but didn't look up to it tonight sadly.

Solskjaer got the tactics all wrong though so there's that too.

fergiesfolly

There are moments like tonight where you realize or accept why managers end up where they do. Emery is a good fit at Villareal. A squad who'll follow his instructions to the letter and play till their last breath for him. The team, fans and board will accept a defensive, hard working display because there's a chance of a trophy. It didn't work for him at Arsenal because players, fans and board wanted attractive attacking football and that's not him.

And so we come to Ole.
He won't win us a title. He won't come close. I'm not even sure he can win any silverware.
All season, he's distrusted his squad, failed to set up his defence for set pieces, made poor tactical decisions ( tonight, failing to make a substitution until extra time and then brings on Fred and Tuanzebe) and Emery played him like a slot machine. We had a better first team and a better squad than Villareal, yet our only goal was a scrambled effort and we had little other real chances. There was so much confidence in this thread before the game. How was that so misplaced?
Some might say he deserves another season but I don't see what good it does. At best we'll be in the same position next season, having the same conversations. At worst....at worst, qualifying for Europa league spot, our best players leaving and the club sliding towards mid table mediocrity.
If there's a better manager available this summer( Conte for one) I think Ole should be moved on.

Goodnight lads

TRC10

Absolutely gutted. To be perfectly honest, once the game went to penalties, it's not that I wasn't bothered, but I didn't mind as much whether we won the shootout or lost it. Because he fact that that game was allowed to go to extra time (nevermind penalties) is an absolute travesty. Villareal nicked a goal from a set piece and had no interest in playing any football after that.

Absolutely awful game management from Ole, when Villareal changed half of their team and immediately looked fresher and more energetic, and Ole didn't make any changes untill deep into extra time (which it shouldn't even have got to). I refuse to believe Amad or even James could have been any worse than Rashford (who I can't remember having 1 positive involvement in the entire game).

I don't think Ole will/should be sacked, but my god the manner of that defeat is seriously concerning. And I hope to god he learns from this and doesn't make the same mistakes again. I'd give him next season with 2/3 good signings. But if this trend of implosion in knockout games continues, it's time for a change.

y0ssar1an22

nullzero wrote: »

Fell short?

Seriously, I can't get my head around this mentality.

Solksjaer consistently over works his players to the point that they are too tired to perform at the end of every season.

We're defensively naive and have been for years and our manager is the cheap option the owners initially brought in to keep fans happy after Hurricane Jose blew through the club.

With that squad we should be doing better, it isn't a silverware winning squad by any means but properly rotated it has more potential. Potential Solksjaer will never realise.

the cheap option? conte left today and got paid 7m euro for1 season forgone.

ole on nearly 30% more.

OTB could have been correct, but rather than replace players, replace the manager.

if he had any love for the club he would respectfully bow out.

put aside a goal 20 years ago...he was never the man for the job.


should have been sacked after that istanbul fiasco

Ninthlife

nullzero wrote: »

Fell short?

Seriously, I can't get my head around this mentality.

Solksjaer consistently over works his players to the point that they are too tired to perform at the end of every season.

We're defensively naive and have been for years and our manager is the cheap option the owners initially brought in to keep fans happy after Hurricane Jose blew through the club.

With that squad we should be doing better, it isn't a silverware winning squad by any means but properly rotated it has more potential. Potential Solksjaer will never realise.

Thats a far more balanced constructive view than the post I replied to and Id agree in parts with it

y0ssar1an22

y0ssar1an22 wrote: »

are you actually saying the utd manager needs someone else to help him?

why not just get a manager with a clue.

what do you mean challenge him for his assumptions?

he doesnt even have a philosophy. give it to bruno and hope for the best. i could do that.

pathetic. he should be gone. should never have been appointed.


would anyone here be happy if bob bradley was the next utd manager? same pedigree as ole.

A great leader will always surround himself with people who challenge them. Fergie had that during his best days.

Now if you believe in the cult of the leader scenario where you think the likes of Fergie, Pep etc do it all themselves, so be it. But it’s far from reality.

And my comment was that’s what ole needs to do if he is to be successful. Whether he is self confident or brave enough to do that is another question. And if he ultimately fails he has at least stabilised the toxic mess created by van gaal and mourinho

beno619

Headshot wrote: »

I can't remember the last time Rashford blew me away with a superb 90 mins display, he's a shadow of what he was but I think he needs a long rest and he's bound to be still not a 100% fitness wise

He wont be getting one until summer 2023

beno619

beno619 wrote: »

He wont be getting one until summer 2023

Maybe someone could contaminate his Covid test before England head to the euros?

TRC10

Deleted User wrote: »

Maybe someone could contaminate his Covid test before England head to the euros?

I'd be amazed if he's going to the euros after that performance tonight and his injury.

Tbh I really hope he's not playing in it. We all know how good he is but he's playing so far beneath himself it's scary. The guy needs a full summer's rest. He's given so much on and off the pitch, he needs rest for his body and mind and hopefully he can come back next season and be the player we know he can be.

y0ssar1an22

Scorpion Sting wrote: »

Too many times and for various reasons. Rashford has been played way too much and badly needs a rest which is unlikely with the Euros happening.

Pogba only seems to play well when he feels like it but to be fair to him he has been much better this season than in the last few seasons. He's better when played in an attacking role though.

Bruno has carried us to victory in several games but didn't look up to it tonight sadly.

Solskjaer got the tactics all wrong though so there's that too.

how many times has that happened?

but sher, progress!

y0ssar1an22

Deleted User wrote: »

A great leader will always surround himself with people who challenge them. Fergie had that during his best days.

Now if you believe in the cult of the leader scenario where you think the likes of Fergie, Pep etc do it all themselves, so be it. But it’s far from reality.

And my comment was that’s what ole needs to do if he is to be successful. Whether he is self confident or brave enough to do that is another question. And if he ultimately fails he has at least stabilised the toxic mess created by van gaal and mourinho

before i read any further, are you saying ole is a great leader? just needs a few disciples and he will be the next SAF?

Whatsisname

I spent most of the day worried about the game tonight. I said earlier that our biggest threat is ourselves and that proved to be true. Going into this game our form was poor, 3 wins in 9 or so I believe, shipping goals left right and centre. Many wrote it off as a “oh well, we’re focused on the final”, but we know how important momentum is in football and we didn’t have much of it going into today.

I could pick and choose players to single out to criticise and lord knows there’s many but the real problem is above them. Ole and the coaching staff have been found out once again. I don’t buy into this notion he had nobody on the bench when our squad is vastly superior to Villarreal’s.

Emery made 5 subs before the 90 mins were up, Ole made his first after 100 minutes, taking off our most dangerous player Greenwood, cause it’s probably easier to justify taking off the teenager and not Rashford, who would still start if he was in a wheelchair at this rate. They actually weakened the overall ability of their team but made them stronger cause they had the legs on us. How Ole couldn’t see that is beyond me. It doesn’t matter if Rashford or Pogba are more technically blessed than VDB or James or Mata or Amad, if they’re dead on their feet, their mind won’t be as sharp either.

I regularly see people say Oles a great man manager but I can think of several players who would probably have second thoughts about that, VDB, Telles, Romero who was cast aside completely this year to not even be registered for us. How can anyone say he has nothing on the bench when he doesn’t show any faith in any of them?

We’ve conceded regularly from set pieces for what feels like an eternity now, regardless of Maguire or not. We regularly concede from crosses to the back post going all the way back to last season. We come up against a low block and look absolutely clueless. Meandering side to side until we misplace a pass or until someone like Bruno pulls something out of nothing.

All these issues are on the coaching staff. It’s woefully inexperienced and it shows. Ole, Phelan, Carrick, McKenna, Fletcher. Who is in charge of what there because none of them strike me as a defensive coach. While I don’t think Ole will be sacked, the best thing he could do is to bring in more experienced staff this summer, especially defensive minded and set piece orientated coaches. Which will cost pittance compared to splashing another £60m on a CB and wondering why we’re still conceding the same goals next season.

I had a bad feeling about this game and I’m bitterly disappointed we threw it away against such an average side. The trophy would have benefitted this squad and the manager massively but it’s another knock against them not performing when it really matters. Buy Rice, buy Sancho, buy whoever, we’ll still likely be outplayed or out thought by weaker teams regardless if we don’t sort out our poorly coached team.

xtal191

y0ssar1an22

why did you have a bad feeling? pick an 11 vs 11 and you pick 11 utd players. a stroll in the park really.