Manchester United Teamtalk/Transfer/Gossip 23/24 - [New Thread Available]

Drumpot

grumpymunster wrote: »

Your stats are very interesting I am just curious (I come in peace promise) why do you feel the damage was done under Jose?

I would fully agree he is not the manager he was a few years back but was he backed do you think or was there always an undercurrent? I know you were having an awful season when he was sacked but prior to that he actually had a half decent record for you.

I meant the damage for 18/19 season was done under Jose. United finishing outside top 4 that season wasn’t because of Ole who took over a side with 26 points after 17 games.

Had Jose been backed that season I think they may of been able to make a title challange. This is the hub of my issue with all the anger at managers. All Uniteds issues start the the top and seep down into the squad and managers.

I’m not totally averse to Ole being replaced, even if I’m not calling for it. But I’m not convinced United getting a manager with a better CV will work out any better then it has under LVG or jose.

The squad is in good shape. Despite the disappointment, players aren’t mouthing off and there’s no reports in papers (much anyway) that seem to happen more under other managers. I think oles pluses and qualities maybe don’t take United to the levels we want to be but maybe he’s fixing stuff in the background that’s been causing issues for other managers.

He’s definitely a good man manager. Cavani doesn’t sign an extra year if he thinks Ole is useless. Ambitious players don’t keep quiet or even perform at all, if they don’t think much of their manager. We’ve seen league winners form capitulate under league winning managers at city, Chelsea and Liverpool, but that hasn’t happened with Ole.

I still don’t understand how pretty much any manager City or Chelsea hire can win a league or do really well but any manager United hire really under perform. I mean really under perform. How is that? So United are just poor at choosing managers, is that what some people believe?

I feel there are fundamental issues at the club that are impacting managers and players ability to meet their levels. It’s happened under every manager and with every squad since saf.

Liam O

Pussyhands wrote: »

At least the Ole - Klopp comparisons are long dead in the water anyways.

Klopp achieved a Europa league final defeat in the first few months of his tenure.

2 and a half years later and Ole is still stuck there with a CL quality team.

I think United fans have been guilty of overrating a lot of the players tbh.

Is Wan Bissaka really a top level RB? Are Lindelof and Maguire anything more than decent defenders who don't really compliment each other? Has Shaw fully gotten over his lack of concentration in defence?

I mean they're all actually fine players but bar Shaw they're not who I'd pick in a defence. New personnel needed.

I love McTominay as a player but he's more of a Fletcher type who you don't really build around in midfield. Fred is more a box to box player too. After that who's there? Everyone knows my feelings on Pogba playing there (or anywhere really). VDB could be good but the system doesn't suit him as there is so much space between players. He has a great attitude though and is young enough to come through better with more time. New personnel needed or at least a system change.

Then the forwards. I like Rashford and feel he must be injured. He was electric about 1 and a half years ago and nigh on unstoppable when he got going. He doesn't try stuff like that anymore really and has regressed. Bruno came in with a load of bluster and did very well but where does he fit in a system that isn't playing to his strengths? Of all people to not play to their strengths? Greenwood is fine on the right but is 19 and can't be relied on yet, especially with the players around him not making up for it. Cavani is great around the box but not a long time left in his legs and can't be relied on. Martial isn't good enough, I'll leave it at that. The cover options aren't great and I feel there would need to be 3 players brought in to cover just the forward line to make them any way competitive.

So yeah, in basic terms I'm very unsure about this squad...

El Gato De Negocios

Drumpot wrote: »

18/19 the damage was done under Jose , I wouldn’t blame that on Ole who nearly managed to get us top 4. In his 2 full seasons Ole has gotten CL qualification, that’s as good as it’s been for United in terms of a competition we want to be in every year. The club has failed to qualify for CL several times since 2013, that’s the reality of the club under multiple managers.

The owners are very happy with how things are going under Ole so people are angry with Ole?! Again, an example of the misguided , misplaced anger that allows the glazers to keep on doing what they do.

So they sack Ole, bring in Conte who just left a club he won the league with because they are cutting back on funding the squad. Ask Jose what the glazers do when their goals (top 4) are met. Have any of you ever thought that some of the ambitious managers you crave don’t want to come to United cause they can see how “ambitious” the owners are and how it doesn’t match up with the fans ?

United is not a super club on field anymore, haven’t been any sort of meaningful threat in the league or CL since SAF . This is just like Liverpool of the 90s, fans and pundits haven’t caught up to reality yet, still expecting high levels from a club that’s nearly a decade under performing.. A club as big as Real Madrid but one who has performed consistently closer to an Everton or Seville and going the Arsenal route.

Promise of a new manager doesn’t do anything for me because I’ve already sort of given up hope while glazers continue to run the club into the ground. I actually think Ole has done a good job overall. It’s not where we want to be, but sadly it’s a reflection of where the club is.

The damage was done by Jose so we finished on a measly 66 points.

We finished on the exact same number of points the following season with no Jose.

Is that better?

And only 8 better off this time around.

Most United fans I know IRL and on here are painfully aware of our current limitations but do I think a better manager like a Pep, Klopp, Conte, Ancelotti etc would get more out of this team than Ole ever could? Absolutely I do.

El Gato De Negocios

El Gato De Negocios wrote: »

Absolutely.

Lets look at the numbers for the previous managers.

14/15 - LVG - 70 points, CL qualification, no trophies
15/16 - 66 points, FA Cup, No CL, sacked

Deemed a failure.

16/17 - LM - 69 points, CL Qualification, EL & League cup won
17/18 - 81 points, CL Qualification, lost FA final, ultimately sacked

Deemed a failure.

18/19 - 66 points, no CL Qualification, no trophies
19/20 - 66 points, CL Qualification, no trophies
20/21 - 74 points, CL Qualification, no trophies

Deemed progress.

The progress is its no longer a basket case

malinheader

All over for another season. Time to let the blood pressure settle until our usual embarrassing shambolic transfer business starts.

scudzilla

Jaysus i'm still seething after that last night, onky 1 man to blame and thats Ole.

His total inability to change tactics mid game was shown here, he didn't have a clue, was just hoping a bit of individual brilliance would see him through.

Said it from the start, he's utterly clueless as a manager and the only reason he made 2nd this year is due to the collapse of our rivals.

His love for Rashford/Martial is astounding, if Martial had of been fit he'd have started last night. IMO both need to be sold, Rashers, albeit a really nice kid, is so overated on pitch.

Can anybody see ANY top manager being in a European final and not changing tactics or making a sub until the 100th minute, he left it that late BECAUSE HE DIDN'T HAVE A CLUE WHAT TO DO, the players he normally would have pulled were our best players.

Pussyhands

Liam O wrote: »

I think United fans have been guilty of overrating a lot of the players tbh.

Is Wan Bissaka really a top level RB? Are Lindelof and Maguire anything more than decent defenders who don't really compliment each other? Has Shaw fully gotten over his lack of concentration in defence?

I mean they're all actually fine players but bar Shaw they're not who I'd pick in a defence. New personnel needed.

I love McTominay as a player but he's more of a Fletcher type who you don't really build around in midfield. Fred is more a box to box player too. After that who's there? Everyone knows my feelings on Pogba playing there (or anywhere really). VDB could be good but the system doesn't suit him as there is so much space between players. He has a great attitude though and is young enough to come through better with more time. New personnel needed or at least a system change.

Then the forwards. I like Rashford and feel he must be injured. He was electric about 1 and a half years ago and nigh on unstoppable when he got going. He doesn't try stuff like that anymore really and has regressed. Bruno came in with a load of bluster and did very well but where does he fit in a system that isn't playing to his strengths? Of all people to not play to their strengths? Greenwood is fine on the right but is 19 and can't be relied on yet, especially with the players around him not making up for it. Cavani is great around the box but not a long time left in his legs and can't be relied on. Martial isn't good enough, I'll leave it at that. The cover options aren't great and I feel there would need to be 3 players brought in to cover just the forward line to make them any way competitive.

So yeah, in basic terms I'm very unsure about this squad...

All fair points, but I think there's enough in that squad to have us in the top 16 clubs of Europe.

Lucas Hood

So 40 penalties in a row without saving one.

https://twitter.com/samuelluckhurst/status/1397726588410662919?s=19

Bob Harris

OGS for a man who made his name as a game-changing substitute seemingly has no clue as to when to make them.

El Gato De Negocios

El Gato De Negocios wrote: »

The damage was done by Jose so we finished on a measly 66 points.

We finished on the exact same number of points the following season with no Jose.

Is that better?

And only 8 better off this time around.

Most United fans I know IRL and on here are painfully aware of our current limitations but do I think a better manager like a Pep, Klopp, Conte, Ancelotti etc would get more out of this team than Ole ever could? Absolutely I do.

74 points when we pulled the handbrake in the last few weeks.
And points total is not a good measure of progress. By that measure Jose's 81 points was a better achievement than 5 of our title wins

Pussyhands

Deleted User wrote: »

The progress is its no longer a basket case

I think a large number of our fans are happy with the current situation of:

- Happy camp, everyone smiling on social media
- Constant talk about Fergie and harping on about past glories (i.e last night lot of talk about repeat of 1999)
- Beating big teams regularly (i.e PSG/City) and having bragging rights

Drumpot

Pussyhands wrote: »

I think a large number of our fans are happy with the current situation of:

- Happy camp, everyone smiling on social media
- Constant talk about Fergie and harping on about past glories (i.e last night lot of talk about repeat of 1999)
- Beating big teams regularly (i.e PSG/City) and having bragging rights

I don’t Know any United fan like this.

Pussyhands

Pussyhands wrote: »

I think a large number of our fans are happy with the current situation of:

- Happy camp, everyone smiling on social media
- Constant talk about Fergie and harping on about past glories (i.e last night lot of talk about repeat of 1999)
- Beating big teams regularly (i.e PSG/City) and having bragging rights

I think some people forget how toxic United were during Van Gaal and Mourinho.

What is more important - a Europa League win or having a team you can enjoy watching occasionally? Trophies for trophies sake is not the most important thing.

Zeek12

Anyone know what Henderson's penalty record is like?

I was screaming for Ole to bring him on for the shootout.

100% knew Dave wouldn't save any. Even some of his dives showed he had little confidence or belief in himself.

Pussyhands

Lucas Hood wrote: »

So 40 penalties in a row without saving one.

https://twitter.com/samuelluckhurst/status/1397726588410662919?s=19

Don't care. Should never have gotten to a penalty shootout.

De Gea did get close to a few, so did Rulli.

Rulli also conceded 10 in a row.

Some of their penos were absolute peaches..Pau, Coquelin and Rulli's were incredible.

Pussyhands

Deleted User wrote: »

I think some people forget how toxic United were during Van Gaal and Mourinho.

What is more important - a Europa League win or having a team you can enjoy watching occasionally? Trophies for trophies sake is not the most important thing.

I don't think we're that enjoyable to watch. I personally think Mourinhos first season with the Pogba/Zlatan combo was the most enjoyable we played post Fergie.

We score around the same number of goals as Mourinho did. We concede more goals than Mourinho did.

We went down a goal how many times this season?

Sure, we'll beat City 2-0 or beat Southampton 9-0 every once in a while...but then you have loads of games where we're pure ****e.

KH25

My biggest issue with last night is that it highlighted problems we’ve been seeing for a long time. We can’t defend a set piece, and Ole can’t use his bench.

Both of these are fixable. How our defending at set pieces hasn’t been worked on is crazy. It also has nothing to do with Maguire being out last night. We’ve looked awful at set pieces with him there too.

As for the bench, I honestly don’t know what to say. It was plain to see that some players were shattered and yet he waited until extra time to make changes. Even then it was obvious the changes were made with penalties in mind. That’s such a negative approach. Even forgetting last night, he constantly leaves it late to make subs and players end up looking knackered as the season goes on.

I also hate this argument of ‘oh well look who we had on the bench’. We had Amad, James, and VDB who were all signed by Ole so it’s not as though he’s stuck with players he doesn’t want. Mata would have been a great option against Villarreal as they sat back in the second half. At this point I have no faith that he’s ever going to learn to use his subs.

Drumpot

El Gato De Negocios wrote: »

The damage was done by Jose so we finished on a measly 66 points.

We finished on the exact same number of points the following season with no Jose.

Is that better?

And only 8 better off this time around.

Most United fans I know IRL and on here are painfully aware of our current limitations but do I think a better manager like a Pep, Klopp, Conte, Ancelotti etc would get more out of this team than Ole ever could? Absolutely I do.

They’d get more out of the team. So why arent they at the club? All this fantasy talk about quality managers, you’d never consider that many of them see United as a graveyard for managerial careers.

Chelsea and city have been able to create environments for multiple managers to flourish. Even Liverpool nearly won a league with Rogers, they’ve shown shrewd investing and an actual football infrastructure that is yielding results. Maybe the best managers don’t see United as a good project?

United spends money. That’s it’s “sale pitch”, that it’s spent lots of money and failed miserably. Top coaches aren’t thick , they know the limits they can do at a club. Look at zidane jumping in and out of Madrid. Conte bailing from inter now that they have to scale things back. Pep and Klopp get the support they need and have a good relationship with the owners.

Poch went to PSG where he’s guaranteed trophies. Conte went to inter were he was backed well with experienced signings. Tuchel went to a Chelsea that has spent over 200 million during a pandemic transfer summer and whose previous managers generally won Leagues or cups and always qualify as a minimum for the CL. Even look at Peps clubs, Barca , Bayern , city , all clubs that win leagues with or without him, he only takes on sure bets.

What do you United offer the very top managers that clubs of our supposed high standard can’t offer? Chance to work in fawlty towers maybe....

Pussyhands

Pussyhands wrote: »

Don't care. Should never have gotten to a penalty shootout.

De Gea did get close to a few, so did Rulli.

Rulli also conceded 10 in a row.

Some of their penos were absolute peaches..Pau, Coquelin and Rulli's were incredible.

Rulli is a journeyman. Some once thought of De Gea as the best in the world

Liam O

Not bringing on Henderson for the shootout was up there with the silliest decisions last night.

Drumpot

Pussyhands wrote: »

All fair points, but I think there's enough in that squad to have us in the top 16 clubs of Europe.

I agree, but is that good enough?

Do you think top managers want to manage a massive club whose fans expectations are the challange for leagues and CL, but who will inherit a squad that “has enough to get into top 16 of Europe “?

Pussyhands

Drumpot wrote: »

They’d get more out of the team. So why arent they at the club? All this fantasy talk about quality managers, you’d never consider that many of them see United as a graveyard for managerial careers.

Chelsea and city have been able to create environments for multiple managers to flourish. Even Liverpool nearly won a league with Rogers, they’ve shown shrewd investing and an actual football infrastructure that is yielding results.

United spends money. That’s it’s “sale pitch”, that it’s spent lots of money and failed miserably. Top coaches aren’t thick , they know the limits they can do at a club. Look at zidane jumping in and out of Madrid. Conte bailing from inter now that they have to scale things back. Pep and Klopp get the support they need and have a good relationship with the owners.

Poch went to PSG where he’s guaranteed trophies. Conte went to inter were he was backed well with experienced signings. Tuchel went to a Chelsea that has spent over 200 million during a pandemic transfer summer and whose previous managers generally won Leagues or cups and always qualify as a minimum for the CL.

What do you United offer the very top managers that clubs of our supposed high standard can’t offer? Chance to work in fawlty towers maybe....

There's a lot of things you could pick out and argue here.

Tuchel gets the benefit of 200m pounds of signings but Ole needs time to get his own players?

Klopp got the support he needed? Look at his bench v Madrid in the 2019 final...and then you have Lovren, Milner and Karius start that game!

Clyne
Klavan
Moreno
Lallana
Can
Solanke
Mignolet

Pussyhands

Drumpot wrote: »

I agree, but is that good enough?

Do you think top managers want to manage a massive club whose fans expectations are the challange for leagues and CL, but who will inherit a squad that “has enough to get into top 16 of Europe “?

Top managers will come.

How many managers line up to go to Madrid even though they could be sacked after a month?

Weepsie

[Deleted User] wrote: »

74 points when we pulled the handbrake in the last few weeks.
And points total is not a good measure of progress. By that measure Jose's 81 points was a better achievement than 5 of our title wins

Pulling the hand brake is a revisionist way of saying we were a bit ****.

Lucas Hood

Pussyhands wrote: »

Don't care. Should never have gotten to a penalty shootout.

De Gea did get close to a few, so did Rulli.

Rulli also conceded 10 in a row.

Some of their penos were absolute peaches..Pau, Coquelin and Rulli's were incredible.

Well it did go to penalties and we left a keeper who is notoriously bad at saving penalties in goal.

In a final the possibility of going to penalties is always there.

y0ssar1an22

Deleted User wrote: »

I think some people forget how toxic United were during Van Gaal and Mourinho.

What is more important - a Europa League win or having a team you can enjoy watching occasionally? Trophies for trophies sake is not the most important thing.

whats the point of a professional football club again?

Julez

Pussyhands wrote: »

Don't care. Should never have gotten to a penalty shootout.

De Gea did get close to a few, so did Rulli.

Rulli also conceded 10 in a row.

Some of their penos were absolute peaches..Pau, Coquelin and Rulli's were incredible.

To be fair the quality of penalties was very good, I think only Shaw and De Geas could be considered poor penos. You're right though, penalties should never have happened, leaving Rashford on past 60 minutes when he was having a terrible game let me know that we were already settling for penalties.

Pussyhands

Weepsie wrote: »

Pulling the hand brake is a revisionist way of saying we were a bit ****.

There was no reason to do so either. Why would any manager be happy to go into a final on the back of poor form?

Bob Harris

I always think a keeper should try and react to where the ball goes rather than picking a side. The first two last night were very stoppable had DDG trusted his reactions. Many you just won't get near but not every penalty is struck that well and if they go down the middle then even better.

I'm always surprised by how many keepers pick a side and there is clearly something that goalkeeping coaches know that I don't.

As for DDG his distribution is poor, his aerial dominance is poor, he is increasingly prone to mistakes, isn't at all brave and can't save a peno nor score one. You could see last night his eyes flitting left and right as he was about to run up, bereft of confidence.

Deano is a better keeper though he still has plenty to prove. With OSGs strategy of bringing on Telles and Mata to Take one you'd have thought he could have thrown Deano in knowing Dave doesn't save.

Drumpot

Pussyhands wrote: »

There's a lot of things you could pick out and argue here.

Tuchel gets the benefit of 200m pounds of signings but Ole needs time to get his own players?

Klopp got the support he needed? Look at his bench v Madrid in the 2019 final...and then you have Lovren, Milner and Karius start that game!

Clyne
Klavan
Moreno
Lallana
Can
Solanke
Mignolet

Liverpool nearly won the league under Rogers. Their owners showed that they can create a good environment for a manager to thrive. They have a good working relationship with Klopp and a football infrastructure that seems to compliment him and get the most bang for their buck.

Klopp managing United would not necessarily yield the same result because he wouldn’t be working with the same structure that helped Rogers nearly win a league. Same with any Chelsea or city manager, those clubs have shown consistancy at winning things under different managers. They have proven they can create an environment for success.

You took up my point on Tuchel wrong. Im saying I think top managers look at how managers of Chelsea have been supported and how this has led to success on the field. They would then look at United and wonder why the club has struggled so badly to get the success the spending should yield.

Basically top managers surely have reservations about managing United. I see nobody really wants to address the “do top managers actually want to manage United” elephant so I will leave it at that.

y0ssar1an22

Liam O wrote: »

Not bringing on Henderson for the shootout was hot here with the silliest decisions last night.

silly things happen when you have a silly manager.

expect it to continue.

cant understand how any fan wants him kept on. it really beggars belief and you should all be ashamed of yourselves.

y0ssar1an22

y0ssar1an22 wrote: »

whats the point of a professional football club again?

To play football.

Trophies are the ultimate goal, but not the point of football.

DM_7

KH25 wrote: »

My biggest issue with last night is that it highlighted problems we’ve been seeing for a long time. We can’t defend a set piece, and Ole can’t use his bench.

Both of these are fixable. How our defending at set pieces hasn’t been worked on is crazy. It also has nothing to do with Maguire being out last night. We’ve looked awful at set pieces with him there too.

As for the bench, I honestly don’t know what to say. It was plain to see that some players were shattered and yet he waited until extra time to make changes. Even then it was obvious the changes were made with penalties in mind. That’s such a negative approach. Even forgetting last night, he constantly leaves it late to make subs and players end up looking knackered as the season goes on.

I also hate this argument of ‘oh well look who we had on the bench’. We had Amad, James, and VDB who were all signed by Ole so it’s not as though he’s stuck with players he doesn’t want. Mata would have been a great option against Villarreal as they sat back in the second half. At this point I have no faith that he’s ever going to learn to use his subs.

- concede from set piece goal
- not use the bench
- struggle against a team that sits in

It was the three biggest and recurring problems under Ole all on one night (first two things are easily changed)

For all the good work he does overall this three things are what undermine any confidence in him as the right person to make the team successful.

When SAF would take off Andy Cole for Ole or Yorke for Sheringham he was not saying those players were not good enough and needed to be hooked. He was saying you played 70 mins, now it is time to get a fresh player on to attack in the last 20 mins, a player who is fresher and in a position to take advantage of slower reaction of bit of space. He wasn't afraid to make a change.

In terms of last night one of the other the annoying things is Villareal did nothing unexpected in their approach. Ole could have kept one of his attackers for the last 20 mins and possible extra time if he was going to be so reluctant to make a change. Play a Mata instead from the start.

Relikk

fergiesfolly wrote: »

If there's a better manager available this summer (Conte for one) I think Ole should be moved on.

I would have loved Conte at the club even when he left Chelsea. He's a fantastic manager, and the disciplinarian that this club desperately needs. We are never winning anything with Ole and last nights tactical ineptitude lesson #50 is enough proof.

y0ssar1an22

Deleted User wrote: »

To play football.

Trophies are the ultimate goal, but not the point of football.

thats why i specified professional.

jimmytwotimes 2013

Trying to think if I've ever seen a keeper worse at facing penalties than De Gea.

Anyone think of a keeper historically who would just fall over when facing one?

Think Shilton had a poor reputation in this regard, not sure bout others.

Shame such a strong player for us, especially when we were absolute muck, has seen his Utd career fade over the last few years. Hasn't been right since World Cup 2018.

grumpymunster

Drumpot wrote: »

I meant the damage for 18/19 season was done under Jose. United finishing outside top 4 that season wasn’t because of Ole who took over a side with 26 points after 17 games.

Had Jose been backed that season I think they may of been able to make a title challange. This is the hub of my issue with all the anger at managers. All Uniteds issues start the the top and seep down into the squad and managers.

I’m not totally averse to Ole being replaced, even if I’m not calling for it. But I’m not convinced United getting a manager with a better CV will work out any better then it has under LVG or jose.

The squad is in good shape. Despite the disappointment, players aren’t mouthing off and there’s no reports in papers (much anyway) that seem to happen more under other managers. I think oles pluses and qualities maybe don’t take United to the levels we want to be but maybe he’s fixing stuff in the background that’s been causing issues for other managers.

He’s definitely a good man manager. Cavani doesn’t sign an extra year if he thinks Ole is useless. Ambitious players don’t keep quiet or even perform at all, if they don’t think much of their manager. We’ve seen league winners form capitulate under league winning managers at city, Chelsea and Liverpool, but that hasn’t happened with Ole.

I still don’t understand how pretty much any manager City or Chelsea hire can win a league or do really well but any manager United hire really under perform. I mean really under perform. How is that? So United are just poor at choosing managers, is that what some people believe?

I feel there are fundamental issues at the club that are impacting managers and players ability to meet their levels. It’s happened under every manager and with every squad since saf.

Ah I understand, would have a tendency to agree with that. I don't think Jose is as bad as some suggest but you get the impression he is a grade 1 sulk if he is not backed and looks for a way out. Think that is what happened at Chelsea over the whole Eva thing, and possibly you guys over transfers, Spurs well that was only ever to stick two fingers up at us really.

I think you are right had he been backed but there we go I guess.

y0ssar1an22

Relikk wrote: »

I would have loved Conte at the club even when he left Chelsea. He's a fantastic manager, and the disciplinarian that this club desperately needs. We are never winning anything with Ole and last nights tactical ineptitude lesson #50 is enough proof.

ole is making clear progress. to say otherwise is blasphemy.

he has a plan, you can see how he has improved the team especially defending set pieces and breaking down a low block.

in ole we trust. its nearly a cult at this stage

Weepsie

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Rulli is a journeyman. Some once thought of De Gea as the best in the world

He was though. He was an unflappable shot stopper for a long time.

ole sacked his goalkeeping coach and brought in someone who the club were happy to let go nearly a decade earlier. Now it was apparently due to him being out on nights out ona preseason tour, but the club said no rules were broken in doing that.

It took time for de Gea to settle, and Eric Steele worked some wonders with him and subsequent coaches maintained that form with him.

So sacking his coach, who had worked with him since he was a teenager at atletico and was brought in to the club specifically for his benefit in the post Fergie years, sends some message to the player who had been out standout player for about 5 years.

I don't think ole is a good coach. I dont think he has a good team around him and I think he should've been thanked 2 years ago. He'd probably make a decent director of football though

y0ssar1an22

y0ssar1an22 wrote: »

silly things happen when you have a silly manager.

expect it to continue.

cant understand how any fan wants him kept on. it really beggars belief and you should all be ashamed of yourselves.

Not replacing the goalkeeper is not a silly decision. Replacing the goalkeeper is an incredibly brave decision. How many examples have we of a manager putting in a penalty expert for the shootout?

Calling the decision not to bring on Henderson silly is just looking for something else to beat Ole with. The bad decision was not selecting Henderson in the first place

y0ssar1an22

jimmytwotimes 2013 wrote: »

Trying to think if I've ever seen a keeper worse at facing penalties than De Gea.

Anyone think of a keeper historically who would just fall over when facing one?

Think Shilton had a poor reputation in this regard, not sure bout others.

Shame such a strong player for us, especially when we were absolute muck, has seen his Utd career fade over the last few years. Hasn't been right since World Cup 2018.

cillessen. and LVG had the sense to take him off for krul.

ole doesnt have the sense

y0ssar1an22

y0ssar1an22 wrote: »

thats why i specified professional.

The goal of professional football is, depending on your outlook, either to a. to provide a career for talented footballers, entertain your loyal supporters and generate revenue to further develop the game or b. generate revenue for vested interest and fleece supporters.

Drumpot

Relikk wrote: »

I would have loved Conte at the club even when he left Chelsea. He's a fantastic manager, and the disciplinarian that this club desperately needs. We are never winning anything with Ole and last nights tactical ineptitude lesson #50 is enough proof.

Conte has won everywhere he’s gone, what would draw him to United?

Jose won the league with Chelsea 18 months before taking over United and his first two seasons weren’t too bad on paper. The game didn’t change that much in that time. This idea that Jose was already finished when he joined United is nonsense. Many felt had he been backed the season we finished 2nd , we might of done something great in his third season.

Based on uniteds record with players and managers signed since 2013, a more realistic probability is that United broke Jose , rather then the other way around. All the revisionist stuff here is remarkable, it’s like fans think things weren’t so bad before Ole came in. Was all gummy gum drops and daffodils under LVG, remarkable delusions of grandeur.

Any potential United manager can see how things have panned out for managers since SAF retired. What makes people so sure the problem is that we won’t try to get in top managers and it’s not that top managers would choose elsewhere if United is not their only option?

Loafing Oaf

Deleted User wrote: »

To play football.

Trophies are the ultimate goal, but not the point of football.

As the comedian Demetri Martin once said, I used to be really into sports, but then I realised, you can buy trophies.

jamesbere

The big thing I was going to take from last night was, has ole progressed as a manager. Could stand up to the emery test. And he failed, it was his chance after a long season to show that when it came to it he could make the big calls.

No matter what players you have on your bench you have to make changes, Rashford was out on his feet and to be honest i don't think he's mentally and physically there at the moment. Bruno for all his talent is not a leader on the pitch, mactominay showed more leadership last night than him.

I was all for giving Ole a chance but last night showed that when comes to tactical knowledge he is lacking. He'll have to go, as he's not progressing as a manager.

Hodors Appletart

It was as bad a management as the Mou cup final, cowardly and out of ideas.

OGS won't take that squad anywhere

Klopp

We could sign all the players we want in the summer but without a top manager who manages his squad and is tactically aware, nothing will change.

wanderer100

Liam O wrote: »

Not bringing on Henderson for the shootout was up there with the silliest decisions last night.

This crossed my mind while we were making the Mata Tuanzebe subs but no way in hell Ole was going to take that chance.

If we lost the penalties with Hendo, I’m sure fans would be moaning about the sub and saying we should have stuck with De Gea

The bottom line is a penalty shootout is a lottery. Any team can win it, any team can lose it. We lost that game in the second half after failing to go for it after the equaliser. Subs had to be made. Fresh legs were needed. We needed to try something different. The players gave it there all and looked absolutely knackered at extra time.

The Golden Miller

nullzero wrote: »

Take away all the trophies United supposedly never deserved to win according to you and they're a bang average club as well.

You seem quite bitter towards me. Again taking what I said out of context

Drumpot

y0ssar1an22 wrote: »

cillessen. and LVG had the sense to take him off for krul.

ole doesnt have the sense

Ah come on, One manager did a very public thing in one World Cup by subbing out a Gk. it never really happens in the game.

I had the same doubts about DDG but I didn’t expect him to be subbed out. Maybe it would of made a difference, I’m not so sure as those Villarreal penos were mostly very good. Penos are a lottery . I think you are better Served being angry about the fact it got to penos rather then nitpick at things like this.