Manchester United Teamtalk/Transfer/Gossip 23/24 - [New Thread Available]

crank_1975

This game has shown that there is only one tactic available to Ole as a manager - hope that one of the technically giifted players does something brilliant. If those players have an off day (which many of them did last night and on multiple other occasions) then there is no plan B.

The other worrying aspect is his poor squad management. Rather than making subtle changes to the team and approach, he uses his first 11 most of the time and then plays almost a second 11 for some dead rubber type games. This has two main impacts, the second 11 don't have time to gel and anre likely involved in a defeat and the 'fringe' players don't get regular football to enable them to fit in to the team. Mata for example had a good run in the team and then wasn't used again for months?

Fergie always preached the mantra of having two players in every position and look at the benefit this has had on Luke Shaw, same could be argued about the current keeper situation. Where else on the pitch is this the case? Harry Maguire not losing sleep about Eric Bailly or Tuanzebe. Even Fred not too worried.

Man City have shown that to challenge on all fronts you need a strong squad and you need to be able to make the big calls in dropping some players for some games. It seems that Ole has taken his 'Man Management' approach to such a level that players cannot be left out.

y0ssar1an22

when you settle for mediocrity this is what you get.

ole is like a unicorn or something. no one will dare criticise him because of a goal he scored 20 yeas ago

the coward should be getting lambasted left, right and center.

neville was well able to rile up the fans when it comes to the super league but stays quiet here.

pjohnson

If a keeper decided to let 30 pens in a row past him it'd be a hard achievement. Not to even accidentally have the ball be blocked by your body 30 times in a row is impossible.

y0ssar1an22

Drumpot wrote: »

Ah come on, One manager did a very public thing in one World Cup by subbing out a Gk. it never really happens in the game.

I had the same doubts about DDG but I didn’t expect him to be subbed out. Maybe it would of made a difference, I’m not so sure as those Villarreal penos were mostly very good. Penos are a lottery . I think you are better Served being angry about the fact it got to penos rather then nitpick at things like this.

oh i am! was simply answering a question.

it happens, sarri at chelsea in recent time as well.

anyway, the point is ole is clueless

Weepsie

Weepsie wrote: »

He was though. He was an unflappable shot stopper for a long time.

ole sacked his goalkeeping coach and brought in someone who the club were happy to let go nearly a decade earlier. Now it was apparently due to him being out on nights out ona preseason tour, but the club said no rules were broken in doing that.

It took time for de Gea to settle, and Eric Steele worked some wonders with him and subsequent coaches maintained that form with him.

So sacking his coach, who had worked with him since he was a teenager at atletico and was brought in to the club specifically for his benefit in the post Fergie years, sends some message to the player who had been out standout player for about 5 years.

I don't think ole is a good coach. I dont think he has a good team around him and I think he should've been thanked 2 years ago. He'd probably make a decent director of football though

De Gea was a great shotstopper who for a couple of years kept us in the top half of the table. In truth he was never a great goalkeeper though. Does de Gea save the penalty in the last minute of the 99 cup semi final replay? Bergkamp missing that penalty was a consequence of both a save by a great shot stopper and the presence of a great keeper.

Loafing Oaf

Drumpot wrote: »

Conte has won everywhere he’s gone, what would draw him to United?

Jose won the league with Chelsea 18 months before taking over United and his first two seasons weren’t too bad on paper. The game didn’t change that much in that time. This idea that Jose was already finished when he joined United is nonsense. Many felt had he been backed the season we finished 2nd , we might of done something great in his third season.

Based on uniteds record with players and managers signed since 2013, a more realistic probability is that United broke Jose , rather then the other way around.

I wonder would things have worked out better if he had taken straight over from SAF. Mind you, given the miracles Moyes is currently working at West Ham, maybe anyonev would have struggled to fill Fergie's shoes...

Drumpot

y0ssar1an22 wrote: »

oh i am! was simply answering a question.

it happens, sarri at chelsea in recent time as well.

anyway, the point is ole is clueless

Tell me what you really think

y0ssar1an22

y0ssar1an22 wrote: »

cillessen. and LVG had the sense to take him off for krul.

ole doesnt have the sense

There is no way Fergie, or a Pep or similar replaces the keeper for a shootout. Does that mean they have no sense?

skinny90

Hodors Appletart wrote: »

It was as bad a management as the Mou cup final, cowardly and out of ideas.

OGS won't take that squad anywhere

cowardly isnt even the word, the momentum shift was soo obvious for the 30 minutes of extra time. we played for penos.

Cant believe Ole, Phelan, Carrick, Mckenna hadnt identified the need to sub in the 90 minutes played.

I dont care about the depth of the squad, Rashford shouldnt have lasted 90 minutes.

Personally I would have put Mata on for Rashford 70-80 minutes in last night.

Yes Mata is leggy and aging but he is just great at finding pockets and linking play.

Drumpot

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

I wonder would things have worked out better if he had taken straight over from SAF. Mind you, given the miracles Moyes is currently working at West Ham, maybe anyonev would have struggled to fill Fergie's shoes...

I actually think it wouid of been very different if Jose took over from SAF. Would of been more like Chelsea where different managers can win leagues. Part of the issue with Moyes is that the players didn’t respect him and he seemed over awed by it all. Jose would of been perfect for a league winning squad. I think some of the Senior players (RVP included who was disgusted SAF was leaving) would of responded much better. I think they quickly knew under Moyes they wouldn’t be winning a league and most jumped ship.

billyhead

So in terms of planning for next season what do we think will be done in the market? Sell Lingard, Matic, Dalot, De Gea and Mata leaves on a free? Who realistically comes in. Will Amad and Williams go on loan? Will Garner come back into the squad?

Pussyhands

Drumpot wrote: »

I actually think it wouid of been very different if Jose took over from SAF. Would of been more like Chelsea where different managers can win leagues. Part of the issue with Moyes is that the players didn’t respect him and he seemed over awed by it all. Jose would of been perfect for a league winning squad. I think some of the Senior players (RVP included who was disgusted SAF was leaving) would of responded much better. I think they quickly knew under Moyes they wouldn’t be winning a league and most jumped ship.

There was a power vacuum after Fergie.

Even the likes of Rene Meulensteen were trying to grab power.

The players and staff completely stabbed Moyes in the back. Giggsy wanted the job himself sure.

Phil Nevilles nickname was "**** off Phil" because every time he showed up the players used to think "**** off Phil"

Pussyhands

billyhead wrote: »

So in terms of planning for next season what do we think will be done in the market? Sell Lingard, Matic, Dalot, De Gea and Mata leaves on a free? Who realistically comes in. Will Amad and Williams go on loan? Will Garner come back into the squad?

Dalot should be kept. He was good for Milan from what I saw. Reminded me of Foyth last night.

Bleating Lamb

No point going over old ground but I have seen very few posters comment on how poor both Pogba and Bruno were last night. They are meant to be the players that were brought into the club to make the difference in tight games.

Bruno has been the catalyst for a more positive atmosphere around the squad and for some very important wins for the club since he arrived but unfortunately there is no arguing with the fact that he tends to go missing in the big games.
As a lifelong Utd fan this pains me as I was hoping he would take the game by the scruff of the neck last night but he spent more time giving out to the ref! Villarreal were always going to use timewasting tactics once they took the lead so it was pointless wasting energy arguing with the ref.
Pogba faded in and out of the game last night.....a bit like he has his entire career at Utd and I felt that Mata should have come on for Rashford after 60 mins and put Pogba out on the left to see if he could get more involved.
Ole clearly trusted Pogba to go out and boss the midfield last night and make defence splitting passes but he only played in fits and starts and was totally over shadowed by McTominay.......an honest to goodness but limited player who was the best player on the pitch last night.If Pogba had 10% of McTominays drive he would be the best midfielder in the World but he simply doesn't.

And don't get me started on Ole's lack of freshening up the team....a blind man could see Rashford was disinterested and ineffective by half time.....Greenwood was the direct opposite....demanding the ball and looking like he could create something whenever he got the ball........
So what does Ole do?.....leaves on the lad on a king's ransom of wages and takes off the teenager.
Even his timing of the last three subs was utterly bizarre. The last time Tuanzebe came on in last minutes of a game he was the cause of a goal.....and Mata and Telles barely got to touch the ball in the game after coming on....not exactly ideal preparation before facing a role in a penalty shootout.
As halftime came in extra time I messaged a few mates wondering if Ole would have the cojones to bring Henderson on for the likely penalties.
De Gea has an abject record versus spot kick takers whereas Henderson is one of those cocky keepers who has a very good record when faced from 12 yards.
Henderson is also the type of keeper who would have being thinking 'Well f**k you Ole I'm going to show you who the better keeper is here!'

After the first 3 penalties went in from each side one lad text me back 'you called that right'....as De Gea had made totally unconvincing efforts at saving the penalties up to that.

Ole needs to learn that 'nice guys' don't always win things.

El Gato De Negocios

Deleted User wrote: »

There is no way Fergie, or a Pep or similar replaces the keeper for a shootout. Does that mean they have no sense?

They would have changed it up long before extra time and tried to win the fcuking game. Fergie rang the changes when necessary - Leighton, Stam, Becks, Keano etc etc. There was no blind loyalty there. Rashford to Ole is essentially what Rooney was to LVG, undroppable, regardless of how detrimental it may be to the overall team.

bucketybuck

I find it strange people keep saying that Solskjaer should have subbed De Gea for Henderson before the penalties.

If that was ever even the slightest possibility, then why on earth would he start De Gea in the first place? It isn't like there is much between them, it was touch and go which of them would start in the first place.

Any manager who didn't trust De Gea for the penalties, to the point of substituting him in extra time, that manager would not have started De Gea in the first place. I don't think there is any top manager that having started with De Gea would have substituted him later.

billyhead

billyhead wrote: »

So in terms of planning for next season what do we think will be done in the market? Sell Lingard, Matic, Dalot, De Gea and Mata leaves on a free? Who realistically comes in. Will Amad and Williams go on loan? Will Garner come back into the squad?

I think it is time to move Pogba on if PSG can be convinced to take him. Frees up a lot of wages to enable some squad strengthening. Departures as per your list, however I think Amad will be good enough to be in the first team squad and Williams unfortunately I think we may as well move on.

Incoming Priorities :
Starters - 1. CB (personal preference Torres). 2. CM (Rice?) 3. CF (probably cant afford Kane / Haaland and also add starting CB and CM)
Squad: Backup RB /Challenger, CM - younger upgrade on Fred - maybe Garner can do it, but would like to see him have a season on loan in the PL, Experienced winger - solid player to bring form the bench in a scenario like last night, but willing to warm the bench for much of the season

Liam O

bucketybuck wrote: »

I find it strange people keep saying that Solskjaer should have subbed De Gea for Henderson before the penalties.

If that was ever even the slightest possibility, then why on earth would he start De Gea in the first place? It isn't like there is much between them, it was touch and go which of them would start in the first place.

Any manager who didn't trust De Gea for the penalties, to the point of substituting him in extra time, that manager would not have started De Gea in the first place. I don't think there is any top manager that having started with De Gea would have substituted him later.

Why do you find it strange? De Gea had let in his last 25 penalties and Henderson has saved I think 8 of his last 19 faced. Nothing strange about using a sub to get him on. There was plenty of capable penalty takers on but nobody in goals capable of saving one. A competent penalty saver would have gotten to 1 or 2 of the Villarreal ones imo, there was nothing overly special about half of them.

Zeek12

bucketybuck wrote: »

I find it strange people keep saying that Solskjaer should have subbed De Gea for Henderson before the penalties.

If that was ever even the slightest possibility, then why on earth would he start De Gea in the first place? It isn't like there is much between them, it was touch and go which of them would start in the first place.

Any manager who didn't trust De Gea for the penalties, to the point of substituting him in extra time, that manager would not have started De Gea in the first place. I don't think there is any top manager that having started with De Gea would have substituted him later.

Good managers have gone down the change a keeper for the shootout route before. It's not that unheard of. LVG and Sarri spring to mind.

De Gea didn't do a whole lot wrong in the 120 mins. And his semi final performance against Roma 2nd leg earned him the right to start imo.
He was excellent that night, kept us ahead with some great saves when things were getting very wobbly. Henderson had made a few errors himself recently.

I think the point is 5 substitutions were allowed in normal time (plus a sixth I believe in ET.) We made none until after 100 mins.

Why not use the sub to give ourselves an extra edge (however small) in the shootout?
Dave was never going to save any.

Whatsisname

Manager merry go round is looking wild today.

Allegri back to Juve. Poch potentially back to Spurs. Zidane's left Madrid. Conte's left Inter yesterday.

I'd love Conte just to see him throw the Glazers into a wood chipper after 6 months.

Lucas Hood

bucketybuck wrote: »

I find it strange people keep saying that Solskjaer should have subbed De Gea for Henderson before the penalties.

If that was ever even the slightest possibility, then why on earth would he start De Gea in the first place? It isn't like there is much between them, it was touch and go which of them would start in the first place.

Any manager who didn't trust De Gea for the penalties, to the point of substituting him in extra time, that manager would not have started De Gea in the first place. I don't think there is any top manager that having started with De Gea would have substituted him later.

It would be strange to do so in a normal year but when you've the luxury of 6 subs in extra time it make more sense.

jimmytwotimes 2013

Hooking De Gea was 100% the thing to do last night. We all know how bad he is historically at pens.

Required guts to make that call. The fact people were flagging the issue as ET was drawing to a close shows how bad he is.

Brave manager needed last night, we didn't have one. Played for penalties in ET but overlooked the obvious goalkeeper weakness.

You're not going to win a penalty shootout with De Gea in goals.

bucketybuck

Liam O wrote: »

Why do you find it strange?

Because the manager who does that, is the manager who would not have started him in the first place.

Lucas Hood

Subbing a goalkeeper who is poor at penalties for someone who is better at them is it really any different than bringing on someone who is good at penalties right before the shootouts starts? Like we did with Mata & Telles last night.

I don't think it is.

Zeek12

Zeek12 wrote: »

Good managers have gone down the change a keeper for the shootout route before. It's not that unheard of. LVG and Sarri spring to mind.

De Gea didn't do a whole lot wrong in the 120 mins. And his semi final performance against Roma 2nd leg earned him the right to start imo.
He was excellent that night, kept us ahead with some great saves when things were getting very wobbly. Henderson had made a few errors himself recently.

I think the point is 5 substitutions were allowed in normal time (plus a sixth I believe in ET.) We made none until after 100 mins.

Why not use the sub to give ourselves an extra edge (however small) in the shootout?
Dave was never going to save any.

The LVG one was a psychological ploy. Krul had only saved 2 of 20 previous penalties. It got in the heads of the takers though. Would taking off the Spanish goalkeeper against the spanish team have served the same purpose? Sarri was because he believed Kepa was cramped.

Klopp

Ole had no confidence in the players he took off before with Mata and Telles coming on to take a penalty, he had no confidence in Greendwood, Pogba, Mctominay or AWB because he knew or they had told him previous they didn't fancy it, didn't want to be the villain, so why leave De Gea on who had conceded 29 penalties, now 40 after Villarreal? Even if we won it doesn't paper over the cracks Ole as a manager or the squad and lack of quality.

Iago

de geas penalty record (excluding the shootout last night) is around the same as the average penalty record if not slightly better. That he hasn't made any of those saves in recent years could be a statistical anomaly, a reflection of the ever changing rules (he saved one last season but it was retaken for an infringement that the naked eye couldn't see) or a feature of his reflexes slowing down.

Hendersons current record is similar to de geas record over his first 20 penalties faced and de gea was playing in la liga for those not, with respect, league one or the u21 european championships. I think it's more than fair to say that Henderson is probably more confident right now facing penalties and confidence goes a long way. Wouldn't have been the worst punt in the world other than effectively telling de gea he was done at the club.

That aside, the game should never have gotten that far. The problems start and end with Solskjaer and I know many will say he's a victim of the owners, and in some respects they're right, but that doesn't mean he should be able to just carry on blindly when it's clear to everyone that he doesn't have the answers.

The current squad is good enough to have won 1-2 of the cups we've been in the last couple of years. The fact that players 'don't turn up' which is Solks favourite get out of jail card is 100% down to the coaching, preparation and physical state they find themselves in imo. Maybe it's my blindspot, but I just don't see his abilities to judge or change a game.

Klopp

Iago wrote: »

That aside, the game should never have gotten that far. The problems start and end with Solskjaer and I know many will say he's a victim of the owners, and in some respects they're right, but that doesn't mean he should be able to just carry on blindly when it's clear to everyone that he doesn't have the answers.

The current squad is good enough to have won 1-2 of the cups we've been in the last couple of years. The fact that players 'don't turn up' which is Solks favourite get out of jail card is 100% down to the coaching, preparation and physical state they find themselves in imo. Maybe it's my blindspot, but I just don't see his abilities to judge or change a game.

Agree, everyone goes on Manutd are the biggest club in the world yet we have Ole as a manager? Look at Spurs for example, they had Jose, bad move we all knew that wouldn't work, some pundits suggested hiring Parker who is probably similar levels to Ole but Levy is going after Poch or Conte.

Pussyhands

So Madrid, Inter, PSG, Juve potentially all going for new managers this summer.

If we sacked Ole, how many of those clubs would want him?

Klopp

Klopp wrote: »

Agree, everyone goes on Manutd are the biggest club in the world yet we have Ole as a manager? Look at Spurs for example, they had Jose, bad move we all knew that wouldn't work, some pundits suggested hiring Parker who is probably similar levels to Ole but Levy is going after Poch or Conte.

How did people who became managers recognised as being capable at the top level become Managers at the top level? With the attitude that only "big" managers should take big clubs, Klopp is still at Mainz having failed to get them promoted back to the Bundesliga, Pep has the Barca B team team and Conte is shuffling Siena between Serie A and B

fergiesfolly

The general consensus across fans commentators, analysts is that Ole isn't the man to return United to the summit of football.
I think he's only staying out of stubbornness to prove people wrong.
I feel bad for the guy because I loved him as a player, but the sideline at Old Trafford is going to be a lonely place next season if he doesn't have a major upswing in form.
I hope he has the courage to accept this isn't in him and step down. I'd have a lot more respect for him if he did.

downwesht

The reality is that the Europa Cup is a losers trophy.......only clubs that are failures can enter!!
Ole showed last night that he is not brave enough to manage the team.....he had no confidence in the bench yet every confidence in DDG......no guts ,no glory.

v3ttel

I don't have any problem with De Gea missing the penalty, but his record for saving penalties is atrocious. The only one I can remember was from RVP, and he even then it was a terribly weak shot and he saved it a couple of yards off the line.

With 5 mins to go, called that Mata (excellent penalty taker), Telles (excellent penalty taker) and Henderson (decent record, plus De Gea's total inability to save one) should all come on. There is no hassle with that as you have 6 subs. It's not like the days where you have 3.

You are infinitely less likely to win a penalty shootout with a goalkeeper who cannot save one.

Also understand the lack of subs until late. If you take off Rashford, Cavani, Greenwood or Bruno, then the only one who is an decent option is Martial who is injured. There is a huge drop in quality after that. James, Mata are not good enough. Van De Beek is maybe the only one who was an attacking option at the required level, but would you have confidence in him to make a difference in one of those positions? Amad is too raw to throw into a game like that.

It sums up all of the teams weaknesses in one game. Huge struggle to break down teams who sit deep. Poor defending from set pieces. Not enough options from the bench to change things.

We've improved every season under Ole. The fact that nobody was talking about needing to win the EL to squeeze into the CL is proof enough of that, but this is still not success. Most people here would have had Fergie sacked back in the day. This Summer is the clubs biggest for many years. If the squad is strengthened again, and we've still no trophies, then Ole's position will become under threat.

Zeek12

v3ttel wrote: »

I don't have any problem with De Gea missing the penalty, but his record for saving penalties is atrocious. The only one I can remember was from RVP, and he even then it was a terribly weak shot and he saved it a couple of yards off the line.

With 5 mins to go, called that Mata (excellent penalty taker), Telles (excellent penalty taker) and Henderson (decent record, plus De Gea's total inability to save one) should all come on. There is no hassle with that as you have 6 subs. It's not like the days where you have 3.

You are infinitely less likely to win a penalty shootout with a goalkeeper who cannot save one.

Also understand the lack of subs until late. If you take off Rashford, Cavani, Greenwood or Bruno, then the only one who is an decent option is Martial who is injured. There is a huge drop in quality after that. James, Mata are not good enough. Van De Beek is maybe the only one who was an attacking option at the required level, but would you have confidence in him to make a difference in one of those positions? Amad is too raw to throw into a game like that.

It sums up all of the teams weaknesses in one game. Huge struggle to break down teams who sit deep. Poor defending from set pieces. Not enough options from the bench to change things.

We've improved every season under Ole. The fact that nobody was talking about needing to win the EL to squeeze into the CL is proof enough of that, but this is still not success. Most people here would have had Fergie sacked back in the day. This Summer is the clubs biggest for many years. If the squad is strengthened again, and we've still no trophies, then Ole's position will become under threat.

Ole took a real gamble by "stacking" the top end of the pitch with all his attacking weapons in the starting XI. We don't very often see Bruno, Rashford, Greenwood AND Pogba all starting in the same side, for the big games.

Fine if it works out. But for that to happen we should really have been ahead by 60/70 min mark.
Then you can use the likes of Matic/Fred, Telles, Tuanzebe to freshen it up - but these are essentially defensive sub options. To protect a lead.

We have never been a side who destroys teams early. Throughout the season we've always been a 2nd half team.
It was a mistake not keeping at least one good attacking option in reserve on the bench imo.

All that said - I still think Mata or Amad should have been introduced, particularly when players were visibly tiring in the 2nd half and Rashford was having a nightmare.

El Gato De Negocios

Pussyhands wrote: »

So Madrid, Inter, PSG, Juve potentially all going for new managers this summer.

If we sacked Ole, how many of those clubs would want him?

He wouldn't get the effin Wolves job never mind one of those jobs.

Irishcrx

It was a strange penalty shoot up to be fair and the quality of the penalties was very high from both sides , I remember one that De Gea got fingers to and maybe their first two he went the wrong way too early - I agree his penalty saving record for a keeper who is known as a shot stopper is poor but we have no idea is Henderson does any better or worst really.

As said , their keeper only saved De Gea's as well and the rest were very good penalties into the corners or roof of the net - the game was lost in normal time , not enough commitment to run at payers from midfield or open them up , too slow in their build up play and once Bruno was man marked no plan B or commitment from Pogba and other to get up the pitch and give them anything to think about - Cavani again was excellent.

Yes we need players and a better squad but last night on paper we had better players than Villareal they had a better more organized squad and manager.

Pipmae

Olé needs to take a long, hard look in the mirror and hand in his resignation. It doesn't look like the club will sack him so he needs to do the decent thing. Mike Phelan should follow him.

I'm so pi**ed off with last nights result and the game management.

Irishcrx

Irishcrx wrote: »

It was a strange penalty shoot up to be fair and the quality of the penalties was very high from both sides , I remember one that De Gea got fingers to and maybe their first two he went the wrong way too early - I agree his penalty saving record for a keeper who is known as a shot stopper is poor but we have no idea is Henderson does any better or worst really.

As said , their keeper only saved De Gea's as well and the rest were very good penalties into the corners or roof of the net - the game was lost in normal time , not enough commitment to run at payers from midfield or open them up , too slow in their build up play and once Bruno was man marked no plan B or commitment from Pogba and other to get up the pitch and give them anything to think about - Cavani again was excellent.

Yes we need players and a better squad but last night on paper we had better players than Villareal they had a better more organized squad and manager.

Did they though - on another night, that match finishes 4-1 in normal time such was the disarray among Villareal in the second half at times - except Torres and Albiol

Irishcrx

Deleted User wrote: »

Did they though - on another night, that match finishes 4-1 in normal time such was the disarray among Villareal in the second half at times - except Torres and Albiol

But it didn’t we lost , you could say the same about their game against Arsenal sure it was touch and go at times but they got the job done .

Pussyhands

We're really going to pass over Pochettino for the 2nd time by the looks of it. He's in talks with Spurs.

Zeek12

Pussyhands wrote: »

We're really going to pass over Pochettino for the 2nd time by the looks of it. He's in talks with Spurs.

Sounds like it's very likely happening.

Smart man Levy.
He knows Poch is probably a very good bet to keep Harry Kane at the club.

Liam O

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Did they though - on another night, that match finishes 4-1 in normal time such was the disarray among Villareal in the second half at times - except Torres and Albiol

On another day United beat Sheffield United this season. On another day they win in Istanbul or Leipzig. On another day etc. When the pressure is on, this team wilts. Was happening under José but his expectations and tactics were pulling some out of the bag. When he gave up after not being backed the team were all to willing to follow suit.

Irishcrx

Irishcrx wrote: »

But it didn’t we lost , you could say the same about their game against Arsenal sure it was touch and go at times but they got the job done .

The more organised squad and manager were in such disarry that a team with a terrible manager could have beaten them well? Had they nullified Utd you may have a point, but it was our failings and not Villareals organisation that took that game to extra time

Liam O

Liam O wrote: »

On another day United beat Sheffield United this season. On another day they win in Istanbul or Leipzig. On another day etc. When the pressure is on, this team wilts. Was happening under José but his expectations and tactics were pulling some out of the bag. When he gave up after not being backed the team were all to willing to follow suit.

The point being made was it was Villareal's organisation the was the difference.

DM_7

Deleted User wrote: »

Did they though - on another night, that match finishes 4-1 in normal time such was the disarray among Villareal in the second half at times - except Torres and Albiol

United had two shots on target though and never looked like they had a level of momentum that a goal was inevitable.

I like Ole, I think he has been good for the club but I still have doubts about his ceiling as a manager.

It is the second season in a row, in the same competition, where his team looked tired and he has not put faith in his squad.

He has players like Donny, Telles and Mata (a Champion League, Europa League, World Cup winner!) on his bench but was too fearful to make the call to change one of his 'game winners'. It is not like Pogba for example was playing so well late on that they were providing a sense that they were about to create a goal.

jimmytwotimes 2013

downwesht wrote: »

The reality is that the Europa Cup is a losers trophy.......only clubs that are failures can enter!!

The disdain the likes of Scholes and Keane show the Europa League says it all

Annabella1

Take the opposite view
Think we have improved all season
Villarreal penos were really well taken maybe one down the middle could have been saved
I would have saved Shaw penalty !
Hope de Gea stays at no 1
Bench was very weak and needs to be addressed
Martial was a big loss to come on for a misfiring Rashford
Still the bones of a good team and ole will learn from experience

Headshot

ffs It would make this horrible season bearable if we got Pochettino in

Somthing I can really get behind

Klopp

Deleted User wrote: »

How did people who became managers recognised as being capable at the top level become Managers at the top level? With the attitude that only "big" managers should take big clubs, Klopp is still at Mainz having failed to get them promoted back to the Bundesliga, Pep has the Barca B team team and Conte is shuffling Siena between Serie A and B

Ole has had more than enough time managing the team and the majority agree he's not good enough. His management of the squad all season was poor, his choice of subs or lack of, his tactics. The players last night moved the ball around way too slow, we always start to slow, concede from set-pieces and always going backwards, never taking a risk going forward, the same all season, that's down to his coaching and how he sets the team up, he's proven to date he's not good enough.

Weepsie

Annabella1 wrote: »

Take the opposite view
Think we have improved all season
Villarreal penos were really well taken maybe one down the middle could have been saved
I would have saved Shaw penalty !
Hope de Gea stays at no 1
Bench was very weak and needs to be addressed
Martial was a big loss to come on for a misfiring Rashford
Still the bones of a good team and ole will learn from experience

WE started the season poorly. Hit a good run of form. Had a bit of wobble, then hit a very good run of form. Dreadful for a few weeks, then okay again, then limped home the last few weeks with a handful of good games in there. That's not improving all season. That's the tale of Ole's reign at the helm.

The bench was no weaker than Villareals, and as people pointed out other teams have done better with similar benches too. There are plenty of full internationals, cup winners, league winners etc on the bench and plenty of experience.

What the bench lacked, is proper game time. He has been woeful in using some of the players available to him.


People harping on about Rashford over greenwood need to cop on too. Greenwood lost possession as many times, had fewer successful dribbles, gave away more fouls, only managed 1 tackle, didn't block anything, didn't clear anything, didn't intercept anything. He didn't have a single shot, zero key passes as they are, and by some distance the fewest passes of anyone in the team.

Yup he put in a handful of nice looking crosses, but he was putting them into spaces in which players were not there or not going to be. His performance was in fact pretty poor. Not entirely his fault, but he didn't have a good game.

I know he had fresh legs, but Alberto Moreno had him quiet when he came on. I don't think both he and Rashford should have started though. I'd have preferred one off the bench to inject energy into the team in the last 30 mins.