Manchester United Teamtalk/Transfer/Gossip 23/24 - [New Thread Available]

Cookiemunster

Your Airbag wrote: »

Sancho looks prolific in the bundesliga but the quality of teams in that league has taken a massive nosedive of late. I think he's a risk especially at this kind of money.

Anytime I've watched him in big Dortmund games he hasn't impressed and of all the times I've seen him play for England Greenwood has looked better. Having said that BvB fans will tell you he's one of their best players for the last 3 seasons, up there with Haaland.

I don't think he will be an instant revelation and might take a season to acclimatize to the league.

You obviously didn't watch him recently then. His return from injury coincided with a run of 7 wins in a row taking Dortmund back into the CL places and winning the German Cup. That included two man of the match awards and four goals in two games against RB Leipzig (one of them being the cup final).

EltonJohn69

Cookiemunster wrote: »

You obviously didn't watch him recently then. His return from injury coincided with a run of 7 wins in a row taking Dortmund back into the CL places and winning the German Cup. That included two man of the match awards and four goals in two games against RB Leipzig (one of them being the cup final).

I’m officially starting to get excited... though all I want is some crosses (good crosses)

Your Airbag

Cookiemunster wrote: »

You obviously didn't watch him recently then. His return from injury coincided with a run of 7 wins in a row taking Dortmund back into the CL places and winning the German Cup. That included two man of the match awards and four goals in two games against RB Leipzig (one of them being the cup final).

Correct I haven't watched him lately for Dortmund anyway. He's got a lot of assist and goals the last three seasons, one of the leagues best so there must be something special about him, I just seem to catch games were he is very ordinary.

EltonJohn69

Your Airbag wrote: »

Correct I haven't watched him lately for Dortmund anyway. He's got a lot of assist and goals the last three seasons, one of the leagues best so there must be something special about him, I just seem to catch games were he is very ordinary.

I think some have underrated Ibra and Cavani because of that same phenomenon

AidoEirE

Fix the RW which Sancho would do, leaves Amado to contest with the rw with Jadon.

Martial is ****e to be fair through the middle so goodbye.
Have greenwood play and progress as a cf instead of filling in holes.

Get Varane for a cb and someone like neves for 35mil.

200mill spent and we are there with the squad challenging.

Bleating Lamb

Man City in for Grealish.....Pep gets to splash the cash yet again to boost his ego and squad.

Cotts72

That dutch lad koopmeiners (CDM) is off to atalanta for 20mill.Heard a lot of people rave about him as a potential option for utd

sReq | uTeK

Bleating Lamb wrote: »

Man City in for Grealish.....Pep gets to splash the cash yet again to boost his ego and squad.

The absolute perfect replacement for the hole silva has left. If Grealish goes to city he will destroy the premier league for the next decade

Father Hernandez

Van de Beek to miss the Euros.

Disappointing to hear, was looking forward to seeing how he got on.

Father Hernandez

Father Hernandez wrote: »

Van de Beek to miss the Euros.

Disappointing to hear, was looking forward to seeing how he got on.

What's wrong with him? Piles? :rolleyes:

macslash

Rotten luck for the fella.

weemcd

Father Hernandez wrote: »

Van de Beek to miss the Euros.

Disappointing to hear, was looking forward to seeing how he got on.

Real shame for the lad, this was his chance to maybe get some games under his belt in the Euros. Who knows what that could have done for his confidence. He's gonna find it very tough.

For his sake I hope he is recovered and well rested, gets a good preseason under his belt. Other senior players are going to return to the club absolutely knackered and possibly carrying injuries after the Euros so he may find some playing time out of necessity. He needs games badly. Considering how thin United's squad is you'd expect he would have had that already.

Lord TSC

https://twitter.com/adrianjkajumba/status/1402207817994584065?s=21

Joe Don Dante

Dominic Solanke

Trigger

Joe Don Dante wrote: »

Dominic Solanke

What about him? are you going to expand on this?

Mitch Connor

Lord TSC wrote: »

https://twitter.com/adrianjkajumba/status/1402207817994584065?s=21

Is that a new role?

Butt left recently, but his role was to do with integration to the first team, having previously been over the academy in general.

This role seems something different, and by the name seems to be a overseeing position over all academy sides.

Interesting.

Trigger

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Is that a new role?

Butt left recently, but his role was to do with integration to the first team, having previously been over the academy in general.

This role seems something different, and by the name seems to be a overseeing position over all academy sides.

Interesting.

Id presume that the Head of coaching would be who each coach/manager of the academy sides would report to, bit like what Butt would have done previously?

It looks like Nick Cox took over his position previously when Butt was moved

https://www.manutd.com/en/news/detail/new-roles-for-nicky-butt-nick-cox-in-man-utd-academy-restructure#

Edit: According to Cox Linkedin his roles are Head of Academy/Academy Operations Manager, so maybe this one is one level under that

Mitch Connor

Trigger wrote: »

Id presume that the Head of coaching would be who each coach/manager of the academy sides would report to, bit like what Butt would have done previously?

It looks like Nick Cox took over his position previously when Butt was moved

https://www.manutd.com/en/news/detail/new-roles-for-nicky-butt-nick-cox-in-man-utd-academy-restructure#

Edit: According to Cox Linkedin his roles are Head of Academy/Academy Operations Manager, so maybe this one is one level under that

So there is an there are U18/23/16 etc managers or coaches that report into this guy, who might report in to Cox, who reports to Murtough as head of football in general (and maybe Fletcher?)

Good that the club do seem to be making changes at a structural level - though the academy hasn't really been a pain point for the last few years, been on an upward trend since the lows of 2015 or so - with Butt and Murtough seeminly key drivers in that over time.

Lord TSC

Mike Verweij: Donny van de Beek has been training and playing using painkillers at Manchester United for weeks. Netherlands national team doctor Edwin Goedhart ruled him out of the Euros after consultation with the player. There is a chance the injury has worsened.

Your Airbag

Lord TSC wrote: »

Mike Verweij: Donny van de Beek has been training and playing using painkillers at Manchester United for weeks. Netherlands national team doctor Edwin Goedhart ruled him out of the Euros after consultation with the player. There is a chance the injury has worsened.

Terrible from Utd if true. Rashford has been played with injuries too or at least rushed back and didn't Lindelof and Bruno have similar issues or was it Maguire?

I remember an interview on SS about a year ago, it was with Evra I think and he was saying how the Utd team and class of 92 was very tough. They would often train and play with injuries, he mentioned Giggs and Ole iirc and the whole squad lead by Keane had that kind of attitude, they wold just shrug it off as nothing serious and get on with it.

Ole needs to knock this on the head if he is trying to instill this attitude within the squad, if it its happening but there have been too many reports about similar issues at this stage. Totally unprofessional.

luketitz

Lord TSC wrote: »

https://twitter.com/adrianjkajumba/status/1402207817994584065?s=21

Lee Carsley got the England U21 job ahead of him, so not entirely convinced he's anything worth celebrating tbh.

Actually wouldn't have minded someone like Carsley with a bit of DMF experience coming in to help wrangle the stray cats in United's midfield.

Lithium93_

Andreas Pereira could/might be heading back to Lazio on loan.

https://twitter.com/utdreport/status/1402255194205917191

luketitz

Lithium93_ wrote: »

Andreas Pereira could/might be heading back to Lazio on loan.

https://twitter.com/utdreport/status/1402255194205917191

If he rates him, he should buy him. Win/win for all parties!

Lord TSC

Cochrane confirmed and a few more details now.

https://www.manutd.com/en/news/detail/justin-cochrane-appointed-head-of-player-development-and-coaching

Cochrane joins from The FA, where he was Youth Development Phase Lead as well as England Under-17s lead coach. He will now oversee the development of Manchester United’s Professional Development Phase players (U17-U23), working closely with both Neil Wood and Neil Ryan to maximise the potential of each individual player.

Mark Dempsey will continue in his role as senior Academy coach to oversee the core coaching team across the Academy.

Heads of Player Development and Coaching:
Justin Cochrane – Head of Player Development and Coaching (U17-U23)
Travis Binnion – Head of Player Development and Coaching (U14-U16)
Eamon Mulvey – Head of Player Development and Coaching (U9-U13)

SteM

luketitz wrote: »

If he rates him, he should buy him. Win/win for all parties!

Except then Lazio would have pay 100% of the wage. I'm sure they'd be delighted getting someone in for the season that they wouldn't have to pay for, United are such mugs.

jimmytwotimes 2013

https://twitter.com/SkyBet/status/1402218859252228101?s=19

Jesus Christ Roy, he'll turn into Jamie Redknapp the way he's going

Kerrydude1981

Roy should have mentioned the great result from Euro 88 for the craic.

y0ssar1an22

PSG was the only possible destination for DDG. now with them getting donnaruma we can resign ourselves to our #2 keeper being the best paid keeper in the world and the top earner in the PL.

he will head on for a free when his contract expires on 30/06/2023.

(2 years left)(52 weeks per year)(£375,000 per week) = £39 million over the 2 years. thats how you protect an asset.

is henderson the 2nd best paid keeper in the league?

manutd83

I would really love to know what it is that means United are so crap at transfers,you look at Leicester and they have their targets and they go after them,same at Chelsea,Man city,United go for a player argue for 2 months over the cost and then either don't sign anyone or in desperation pay more than the selling club were asking for in the first place,this kind of thing has been discussed here multiple times,if we can all see it so why can't they.
Or is it just to string along the fans to kick the can down the road and let them think maybe next transfer window while the money is off to American accounts,

el Fenomeno

manutd83 wrote: »

I would really love to know what it is that means United are so crap at transfers,you look at Leicester and they have their targets and they go after them,same at Chelsea,Man city,United go for a player argue for 2 months over the cost and then either don't sign anyone or in desperation pay more than the selling club were asking for in the first place,this kind of thing has been discussed here multiple times,if we can all see it so why can't they.
Or is it just to string along the fans to kick the can down the road and let them think maybe next transfer window while the money is off to American accounts,

There's also the super tin-foil hat conspiracy that we purposefully delay transfers to avoid the best part of 8-10 weeks worth of expensive wages.

Would you be surprised?

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Brendan Flowers

Utd fans will notice that club transfers drag out for months because they follow the Utd rumours/threads/tweets/transfer speculation/etc. They think other clubs get transfers completed quickly because they dont follow those rumours/threads/tweets/transfer speculation/etc as closely. So you're more likely to only hear about a player linked to those clubs when the transfer is nearing being completed. But I'm sure the fans of those clubs are hearing a lot of speculation for weeks and even months.

Looking at the biggest Premier League transfer completed so far this summer and I hear people saying Liverpool wanted Konate so went out and got it done. But the reality is that transfer has been going on for months and most Liverpool fans will probably say it was anything but straightforward.

Mitch Connor

Brendan Flowers wrote: »

Utd fans will notice that club transfers drag out for months because they follow the Utd rumours/threads/tweets/transfer speculation/etc. They think other clubs get transfers completed quickly because they dont follow those rumours/threads/tweets/transfer speculation/etc as closely. So you're more likely to only hear about a player linked to those clubs when the transfer is nearing being completed. But I'm sure the fans of those clubs are hearing a lot of speculation for weeks and even months.

Looking at the biggest Premier League transfer completed so far this summer and I hear people saying Liverpool wanted Konate so went out and got it done. But the reality is that transfer has been going on for months and most Liverpool fans will probably say it was anything but straightforward.

United specifically point out social media engagement during transfer speculation season as a key point of interest in Investor calls.

So i don't think it would be baseless to think there is some level of thinking at United that a dragged out process is good for business.

And as to your point on Konate.... maybe it has been going on for months. But it has been done quickly following the season end. Why have United not been prepping deals for the last few months to get them over the line quicly in the window?

Brendan Flowers

Brendan Flowers wrote: »

Utd fans will notice that club transfers drag out for months because they follow the Utd rumours/threads/tweets/transfer speculation/etc. They think other clubs get transfers completed quickly because they dont follow those rumours/threads/tweets/transfer speculation/etc as closely. So you're more likely to only hear about a player linked to those clubs when the transfer is nearing being completed. But I'm sure the fans of those clubs are hearing a lot of speculation for weeks and even months.

Looking at the biggest Premier League transfer completed so far this summer and I hear people saying Liverpool wanted Konate so went out and got it done. But the reality is that transfer has been going on for months and most Liverpool fans will probably say it was anything but straightforward.

Right but other teams get all their ducks in a row pre transfer window and can announce bit as done as soon as it's open. Some tea s get multiple transfers done in a few days. United seem to start negotiations a way into the window and negotiate one transfer at a time

Brendan Flowers

I'm not trying to paper over issues with Utd's transfer dealings post Fergie/Gill. But I'm going to try and remain optimistic for this window! I do think a deal for Sancho could be closer to being finalised than we are being made aware of. Sancho along with 2 other players could be whats needed to get Utd properly challenging for the title. The 3 players I'd like to see brought in are:

Sancho
Rice
Botman

All are realistically gettable. Sancho supposedly agreed personal terms with Utd last year and Dortmund have a selling price. West Ham might not been keen to lose Rice but Lingard could be used as part of the deal. Also James Garner could be sent there on loan. He'd possible fill the hole in the West Ham starting 11 left by Rice. I watched some Forrest games last season and he performed very well. But what stood out most for me was that for someone so young he was well able to handle the physicality of the Championship. A loan move this year to a PL could do wonders for his development. Lille are supposed to be in serious financial trouble and reportedly are willing to sell anyone.

The money. You'd expect Utd to have funds available before any players are sold. Then you look are who is likely to leave and who is worth selling if it helps to bring in the players mentioned above and in turn strengthen the overall team. As mentioned, Lingard who is surely worth 25 - 30 million. Martial and De Gea are 2 players I'd sell if it meant their fees went towards Sancho/Botman/Rice. High wages means its hard to estimate what price Utd might get for them, but I would hope no less than 35 - 40 million for both. If Botman is brought in then I'd be looking to sell Bailly. I know fitness is an issue for him but the club should still be expecting in the region of 15 million for him. I saw it mentioned here that Lazio want Perriera back. If so, let them pay up and sign him permanently. Even 5 million would be better than nothing. Dalot is coming off the back of a good season and could we worth in the region of 10 million if more funds were needed. But he might be a good squad option to keep around and would also give Williams and Laird the opportunities to go out on loan.

I think the club need to look at the ergonomics of the dugout seats at OT



https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/manchester-united-transfer-news-live-20769466

Quandary

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Why have United not been prepping deals for the last few months to get them over the line quicly in the window?

The eternal question.

Its groundhog day when it comes to transfers with Utd.

I wouldn't be shocked to see very little business being done at all. After all, Utd got to the final of a European competition and came 2nd in the league. Why the need to spend big when the team will be even more cohesive under Ole next year? sponsor money is safe, marketing looks good. Great year and good job done by all, more of the same next year.

I would imagine that could be the thinking at board level.

DM_7

Quandary wrote: »

The eternal question.

Its groundhog day when it comes to transfers with Utd.

I wouldn't be shocked to see very little business being done at all. After all, Utd got to the final of a European competition and came 2nd in the league. Why the need to spend big when the team will be even more cohesive under Ole next year? sponsor money is safe, marketing looks good. Great year and good job done by all, more of the same next year.

I would imagine that could be the thinking at board level.

Re the last line this is where the managers message and the message of the other football people would be important.

Sorry to pick on Jose, but a few months before his last summer he got a new deal. We don't now what the message he was giving at the time of the contract extension but we can imagine Jose offers big promises. Considering he had received some new players the previous summer, Sanchez was signed three days before the new contract was announced - I would imagine his message was that thing were going well and that he would deliver with those investments. If that message changed drastically by the summer and he needed/wanted much more then the non football people would be confused and looking at the table the previous seasons and wondering what is happening.

It appears Ole has been giving the message, from the beginning, that more is needed and his promises are more reserved, a more incremental approach. If the message stays aligned with that then it is an easier to ask for more and point to how things can be continue to be, how they can improve if the club does more - or point out the negatives if they don't go out and add to the squad.

I wouldn't be surprised by United making the kind of choices they made under Jose where they did not follow his ask but I do hope that Ole's ask will be viewed as more realistic and required as they will not have changed massively in a short space of time.

Mitch Connor

DM_7 wrote: »

Re the last line this is where the managers message and the message of the other football people would be important.

Sorry to pick on Jose, but a few months before his last summer he got a new deal. We don't now what the message he was giving at the time of the contract extension but we can imagine Jose offers big promises. Considering he had received some new players the previous summer, Sanchez was signed three days before the new contract was announced - I would imagine his message was that thing were going well and that he would deliver with those investments. If that message changed drastically by the summer and he needed/wanted much more then the non football people would be confused and looking at the table the previous seasons and wondering what is happening.

It appears Ole has been giving the message, from the beginning, that more is needed and his promises are more reserved, a more incremental approach. If the message stays aligned with that then it is an easier to ask for more and point to how things can be continue to be, how they can improve if the club does more - or point out the negatives if they don't go out and add to the squad.

I wouldn't be surprised by United making the kind of choices they made under Jose where they did not follow his ask but I do hope that Ole's ask will be viewed as more realistic and required as they will not have changed massively in a short space of time.

i think (hope) there is better alignment at the club now than under Jose.

It feels like the players Jose wanted were not aligned with the players the club thought they should go for. The club wanted Martial over Peresic, jose wanted the opposite. Just an example. I said at the time we should have sold Martial and brought in Peresic is that is what the manager needed for his vision - either back him or sack him, as I said.

Now, I think the style and profile of player Ole wants is aligned with the others at the club and that the signings Ole wants are more considered to be part of the long term vision for the club. As I have also said before, United's dealings should not be based on a specific Ole formula - there should be an overall vision for the future of the club that both the players and the manager fit in to - is if Ole is eventually moved on, the next manager in should hold a similar ethos, so the squad the next manager inherits is consistent with the balance that manager would like.

obviously no two manager are indentical, but you would hope that if we got the signings we want this summer, that a new manager next summer (for example) would not be immediately looking to replace the signings just made en mass.

The remaining issue though is even if the manager and club are aligned on the players - Sancho and Varane for example - does anyone on here have any faith in the club to provide those players? I don't think a lack of backing of Ole will be because of a lack of faith in his targets, I think it will be due to a lack of ambition in general terms.

Your Airbag

Transfer windows are always painful, especially on the thread. One of the main reasons is Utd are one of the most written about clubs on the planet. All sorts of stories come out in the vein of "Utd are preparing to table a bid" or "are looking to open negotiations" and this is because Utd = clicks.

Other clubs get a deal announced without the long build up from the media. It gives the impression of efficiency when its really just the deal being announced when done a lot of the time.

Who else has done great business in the league so far? Liverpool have signed Konate, thats about it. Their fans were up in arms when no CB was signed in January and VVD was injured so early in the season and all of their first choice CBs started dropping like flies. Lack of action there almost cost them a top four place and Konates quality and ability to adapt to the EPL is yet to be seen. Hardly anything to write home about.

I'm not saying Utd are amazing in this regard and can be ponderous at times no doubt but we have also pulled off some great deals over the years since Fergie left. If the media fanfare around wasn't so bad it would be a lot more tolerable.

Mitch Connor

Your Airbag wrote: »

Transfer windows are always painful, especially on the thread. One of the main reasons is Utd are one of the most written about clubs on the planet. All sorts of stories come out in the vein of "Utd are preparing to table a bid" or "are looking to open negotiations" and this is because Utd = clicks.

Other clubs get a deal announced without the long build up from the media. It gives the impression of efficiency when its really just the deal being announced when done a lot of the time.

Who else has done great business in the league so far? Liverpool have signed Konate, thats about it. Their fans were up in arms when no CB was signed in January and VVD was injured so early in the season and all of their first choice CBs started dropping like flies. Lack of action there almost cost them a top four place. Hardly anything to write home about.

I'm not saying Utd are amazing in this regard and can be ponderous at times no doubt but we have also pulled off some great deals over the years since Fergie left. If the media fanfare around wasn't so bad it would be a lot more tolerable.

But the timing plays in to that.

ALL freaking summer on Sancho last year and then signed Amad, Pellistri and Cavani in the last days. If those three were previous targets why were they not signed much earlier?

Fernandes in the previous January - all freaking window and we sign him with 1 day left or something like that. For a player we desperately needed and had a huge impact, but the club arsed around for weeks longer than was reasonable.

It obviously is unreasonable to think United should have all its business done now - but does anyone think we won't be talking about the same links to the same players in July?

billyhead

Mitch Connor wrote: »

But the timing plays in to that.

ALL freaking summer on Sancho last year and then signed Amad, Pellistri and Cavani in the last days. If those three were previous targets why were they not signed much earlier?

Fernandes in the previous January - all freaking window and we sign him with 1 day left or something like that. For a player we desperately needed and had a huge impact, but the club arsed around for weeks longer than was reasonable.

It obviously is unreasonable to think United should have all its business done now - but does anyone think we won't be talking about the same links to the same players in July?

They were opportunistic signings maybe out of desperation. That's my view anyway.

Lord TSC

I think Pellistri was an academy player who had little to do with Sancho, but was promoted and hyped up as a major signing because they knew the summer was flopping. I think he was always going to be signed but would have had the hype any other young kid signed would have, like Hannibal or the likes.

With Amad, I think it was said we’d have liked to have left him a few months longer, but I’d say when Sancho was falling through and when it was obvious he’d not get any game time with the other club, we went for him then, rather than wait another few months or a year. And, again, he was hyped up massively because we needed to try and spin the window.

Had we signed Sancho last year, I think we’d have signed Pellestri and Amad as well. I just think they’d have been in the academy and 90% of us wouldn’t have heard of them for another year or two afterwards.

Mitch Connor

Lord TSC wrote: »

I think Pellistri was an academy player who had little to do with Sancho, but was promoted and hyped up as a major signing because they knew the summer was flopping. I think he was always going to be signed but would have had the hype any other young kid signed would have, like Hannibal or the likes.

With Amad, I think it was said we’d have liked to have left him a few months longer, but I’d say when Sancho was falling through and when it was obvious he’d not get any game time with the other club, we went for him then, rather than wait another few months or a year. And, again, he was hyped up massively because we needed to try and spin the window.

Had we signed Sancho last year, I think we’d have signed Pellestri and Amad as well. I just think they’d have been in the academy and 90% of us wouldn’t have heard of them for another year or two afterwards.

I agree in that I think we would have signed both regardless, or tried to.

Amad is interesting though - for the money spent, I don't think there is a chance we would not have heard about him, or it would not have been treated as a very notable signing. I think he likely would have had the same profile and squad involvement as he did regardless.

PARlance

I'm still convinced Forlan must have had compromising photos of someone at the club with regards the Pellistri move. And Ole's "he's a first team signing" was never believable.

At least Amad was on the radar and being linked to other clubs. I think he'll be a cracking player, given time.

Pellistri, Amad and Cavani were all to make up for a lack of a Sancho signing imo.

TRC10

Ruben Neves is available for £35m. Soumaré is going to Leicester for £21m. For £56m (Just 3m more than what Fred cost) we could have 2 quality midfielders that would be a huge upgrade on McFred right there.

But were talking about spending £90m on Declan Rice. The incompetency of Manchester United when it comes to transfers never ceases to amaze me.

Lord TSC

Southgate apparently going to try out Shaw as a CB in a back three.

Be interesting to see him tested there without it affecting United.

el Fenomeno

TRC10 wrote: »

Ruben Neves is available for £35m. Soumaré is going to Leicester for £21m. For £56m (Just 3m more than what Fred cost) we could have 2 quality midfielders that would be a huge upgrade on McFred right there.

But were talking about spending £90m on Declan Rice. The incompetency of Manchester United when it comes to transfers never ceases to amaze me.

We would not have got Soumare for £21m.

Trigger

Lord TSC wrote: »

Southgate apparently going to try out Shaw as a CB in a back three.

Be interesting to see him tested there without it affecting United.

Think he will be fine there.. he naturally drifts into that space when defending anyways so it might work out for him there

pjohnson

Could work well and let Telles go wing back.

Moot if we sign Pau Torres as he'd start left CB regardless. But good to add versatility.