Manchester United Teamtalk/Transfer/Gossip 23/24 - [New Thread Available]

pjohnson

wanderer100 wrote: »

Lazy comment. The midfield 3 he’s playing with for France in Kante & Rabiot gives him so much more freedom to create and go forward where he’s most effective.

At United , we play a midfield 2 in McFred where Pogba is being forced into the left wing. And when he does play in midfield , Fred, McTominay or Matic are nowhere near the level of Kante .

Until we buy a proper top class CDM such as a Ruben Neves or Declan Rice , we’ll never get the best of Paul Pogba

And if we do sign a CDM it will be some other excuse. Especially if its Rice who would be awfully exposed beside Pogba, as 95% of midfielders would be.

TRC10

Pogba's best, most consistent spell for us, was when he was playing with Matić and Herrera in midfield.


Letting Herrera go, not replacing Matić, and then buying Bruno when Pogba was injured, have all been contributing factors of us not getting the best out of Pogba since 2019.

He's been played out of position at LW or CDM since 2019, simple as that. Imagine we played Bruno at RW or CDM for example, and then everyone jumped on him for being "lazy" or "not commited"

Liam O

TRC10 wrote: »

Pogba's best, most consistent spell for us, was when he was playing with Matić and Herrera in midfield.


Letting Herrera go, not replacing Matić, and then buying Bruno when Pogba was injured, have all been contributing factors of us not getting the best out of Pogba since 2019.

He's been played out of position at LW or CDM since 2019, simple as that. Imagine we played Bruno at RW or CDM for example, and then everyone jumped on him for being "lazy" or "not commited"

No, because it would be obvious that he was still giving his all. Matches like tonight should show everyone just how happy Pogba is to coast at United and collect a paycheck he doesn't deserve.

Liam O

wanderer100 wrote: »

Lazy comment. The midfield 3 he’s playing with for France in Kante & Rabiot gives him so much more freedom to create and go forward where he’s most effective.

At United , we play a midfield 2 in McFred where Pogba is being forced into the left wing. And when he does play in midfield , Fred, McTominay or Matic are nowhere near the level of Kante .

Until we buy a proper top class CDM such as a Ruben Neves or Declan Rice , we’ll never get the best of Paul Pogba

Forced to the left wing for how many games since he joined United? Similar problems when he's played in the 10 position but let's ignore that too.

Rice and Neves, top DMs? Can't wait to sign them so. Pogba Balon d'Or next year.

DM_7

Liam O wrote: »

No, because it would be obvious that he was still giving his all. Matches like tonight should show everyone just how happy Pogba is to coast at United and collect a paycheck he doesn't deserve.

Deschamps deserves credit as well as the players in terms of France. Just look at Griezmann and how selfless his play for France is. Playing for France demands that type of play, from manager and peers.

Every player knows their role, how they fit into the system, can rely on each other. At United that has not always been the case.

GSPfan

Pogba’s best position would be in someone else’s midfield somewhere else.

Sick of the conversations about what formation and combination of world class players he needs around him to unlock his hidden world class talents.

That’s not a pop at any of you guys discussing it but seriously i think we’ve done this to death and the result is not that complicated. He’s just never going to perform consistently for Manchester United no matter what.

He’ll run out his contract and he’ll be back at Juve or join PSG. I’ll be happy when it’s finally over.

RobbingBandit

We should do anything and everything to get N'Golo Kante he is a reverse Fred, like Fred is Bruce Banner and Kante is a footballer.

DM_7

GSPfan wrote: »

Pogba’s best position would be in someone else’s midfield somewhere else.

Sick of the conversations about what formation and combination of world class players he needs around him to unlock his hidden world class talents.

That’s not a pop at any of you guys discussing it but seriously i think we’ve done this to death and the result is not that complicated. He’s just never going to perform consistently for Manchester United no matter what.

He’ll run out his contract and he’ll be back at Juve or join PSG. I’ll be happy when it’s finally over.

You are probably right with that summary.

Pogba is never going to play at the expected level for United compared to France unless United ever have a team of comparable players.

For France a midfield player has Kimpembe and Varane behind, Mbappe, Benzema and Griezmann ahead, Kante and Rabiot beside.

StringerBell

The disrespect young Frederick gets is incredible really, it's actually hilarious

TRC10

GSPfan wrote: »

Pogba’s best position would be in someone else’s midfield somewhere else.

Sick of the conversations about what formation and combination of world class players he needs around him to unlock his hidden world class talents.

That’s not a pop at any of you guys discussing it but seriously i think we’ve done this to death and the result is not that complicated. He’s just never going to perform consistently for Manchester United no matter what.

He’ll run out his contract and he’ll be back at Juve or join PSG. I’ll be happy when it’s finally over.

I'm not a Pogba F.C. guy by any means. But it's hardly unreasonable to suggest a player needs to play in his best position to play his best football. And his talents are hardly hidden. We saw them in 2019 when he was playing in a 3 with Matic and Herrera and our top scorer, and we see them every tournament with France, who know how to get the best out of him. It's nothing to do with having other world class players around him.

We've done it to death because we persist in playing him at LW or CDM and then when he plays well for France we act surprised and say "oh he doesn't do that for United".

But I agree we should sell Pogba, because he just doesn't fit in the system we play. So yeah, I'd have no issue selling him. We have Bruno so we're never playing with a midfield 3. So best to cash and let him go somewhere who can utilise his talents better and we can, and invest in players we need, who fit in our system.

I'd also be happy to see the back of his agent and the circus that he comes with.

mamax

I remember someone talking about Roy Keane and Zidane saying you could play either of them at left back and they'd be man of the match so if pogba is so world class why does he not produce in every game?
He can be very lazy and sometimes fails to get out of 1st gear, anyone that's played the game has played out of position at times and given their all, even at under age now we coach players to play in different positions.
I'd rather see him gone to be honest.

Drumpot

TRC10 wrote: »

Pogba's best, most consistent spell for us, was when he was playing with Matić and Herrera in midfield.


Letting Herrera go, not replacing Matić, and then buying Bruno when Pogba was injured, have all been contributing factors of us not getting the best out of Pogba since 2019.

He's been played out of position at LW or CDM since 2019, simple as that. Imagine we played Bruno at RW or CDM for example, and then everyone jumped on him for being "lazy" or "not commited"

Pogba should of been sold years ago. I don’t blame him, I blame Woodward/glazers who wanted to hold onto the player who “brought the most traffic to the website ever” when he signed. To be fair Pogba Said he wanted to go years ago and has looked like a player who wants to go.

Part of the reason he’s been played out of position is because he can’t be relied upon, United ended up effectively buying a replacement in Bruno because of it. Remember , Pogba said it himself , if he’s not happy he can’t perform. I’ve never seen such a top quality player have so many people/fans jumping through hoops and coming up with all sorts of excuses to defend such a disappointing return the club has gotten from them. Maguire has been far better value for money, that includes being mostly available (not declaring himself unfit ) and not looking far better for England then United.

There’s plenty of times top quality players played out of position for United and they worked hard for the team. Also, didn’t Pogba play really well for france in the World Cup beside Kante in a more defensive role? He’s able to play a deeper role if he’s interested. He has far less focus for United. As Jose said, Pogba finds it much easier to have full focus in a summer tournament.

Hopefully he has a stormer of a euros and PsG won’t be able to help themselves and pay a few quid to end this disfunctional union with United.

wrestlemaniac

Fixtures out. Big run of games in March for Utd

Drumpot

United away to Leeds opening day next season. City away to spurs is juicy.

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11661/12309208/premier-league-2021-22-fixtures-and-schedule-man-city-title-defence-begins-at-tottenham-man-utd-host-leeds-liverpool-visit-norwich-on-opening-weekend

Brendan Flowers

Garner looks to have seriously bulked up over the last few months. Having watched some Forest games last season, even then he was well able for the physicality of the Championship. It'll be interesting to see how he gets on in pre-season for Utd and if there's any plans to use him next season. Or if the plan is to send him out on loan again, hopefully the club can find a Premier League team for him where he's be a regular starter.

Lord TSC

Chelsea’s opening six games are incredible :pac:

The_Kew_Tour

Drumpot wrote: »

United away to Leeds opening day next season. City away to spurs is juicy.

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11661/12309208/premier-league-2021-22-fixtures-and-schedule-man-city-title-defence-begins-at-tottenham-man-utd-host-leeds-liverpool-visit-norwich-on-opening-weekend

Liverpool game will be on the Irish Bank Holiday weekend. Sweet

The_Kew_Tour

Brendan Flowers wrote: »

Garner looks to have seriously bulked up over the last few months. Having watched some Forest games last season, even then he was well able for the physicality of the Championship. It'll be interesting to see how he gets on in pre-season for Utd and if there's any plans to use him next season. Or if the plan is to send him out on loan again, hopefully the club can find a Premier League team for him where he's be a

Hopefully a PL club does come in for him. One of the promoted clubs is most likely. Can see Norwich being interested

Sebastian Dangerfield

TRC10 wrote: »

Pogba's best, most consistent spell for us, was when he was playing with Matić and Herrera in midfield.


Letting Herrera go, not replacing Matić, and then buying Bruno when Pogba was injured, have all been contributing factors of us not getting the best out of Pogba since 2019.

He's been played out of position at LW or CDM since 2019, simple as that. Imagine we played Bruno at RW or CDM for example, and then everyone jumped on him for being "lazy" or "not commited"

Is there another "top class" player in the world who can only play in one specific position, a pretty niche one at that given that its a formation not all that many teams play? You could play Bruno deep or forward and he would have more impact than Pogba on a consistent, regular basis.

Compare him to De Bruyne or David Silva who played midfield, wide, off the front, and excelled regardless.

Positioning doesn't excuse his blatant lack of effort and repeated poor decision making. It's always someone else's fault - the top players find a way. I hope for everyone's sake there is no agreement on a new contract, and he moves on.

loyatemu

Sebastian Dangerfield wrote: »

Is there another "top class" player in the world who can only play in one specific position, a pretty niche one at that given that its a formation not all that many teams play? You could play Bruno deep or forward and he would have more impact than Pogba on a consistent, regular basis.

Compare him to De Bruyne or David Silva who played midfield, wide, off the front, and excelled regardless.

Positioning doesn't excuse his blatant lack of effort and repeated poor decision making. It's always someone else's fault - the top players find a way. I hope for everyone's sake there is no agreement on a new contract, and he moves on.

agree, he's a luxury player that's needs the team setup around him, and he's keeping Rashford out of his best position. I don't agree with the "lazy" narrative, but we gave it a shot and it's time to move on.

Brendan Flowers

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Hopefully a PL club does come in for him. One of the promoted clubs is most likely. Can see Norwich being interested

I've seen some stories online that Utd are considering sending him overseas on loan. I'd rather see him go back to Forest then go overseas.

Drumpot

United's fixtures to mid October are all the kind of ones you would expect them to win. This will give us an indication if Ole has learned how to start showing prolonged consistency in games you would expect wins. You would expect the club to be there or thereabouts in the league before the following run of league games.

From mid October its a crazy run:

Oct 16 Leicester A
Oct 23 Liverpool H
Oct 30 Spurs A
Nov 6 City H
Nov 20 Watford A
Nov 27 Chelsea H

That is juicy. If United are still mounting some sort of decent challenge by December 1st, things will start to get interesting.

Sebastian Dangerfield

Drumpot wrote: »

If United are still mounting some sort of decent challenge by December 1st, things will start to get interesting.

We were mounting one by late January this year, and look how that turned out

beakerjoe

Sebastian Dangerfield wrote: »

We were mounting one by late January this year, and look how that turned out

Thats the spirit.... stay positive

wanderer100

Be interesting to see where he goes. It's the right move for him nonetheless

https://twitter.com/JonathanShrager/status/1405097015873245184?s=20

is_that_so

Drumpot wrote: »

United away to Leeds opening day next season. City away to spurs is juicy.

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11661/12309208/premier-league-2021-22-fixtures-and-schedule-man-city-title-defence-begins-at-tottenham-man-utd-host-leeds-liverpool-visit-norwich-on-opening-weekend

Home to Leeds , isn't it?

Sebastian Dangerfield

wanderer100 wrote: »

Be interesting to see where he goes. It's the right move for him nonetheless

https://twitter.com/JonathanShrager/status/1405097015873245184?s=20

Back to Villa will be an option I'd expect. I'd really love to see him succeed at United, but he's not going to do that 4th / 5th choice.

Whatsisname

wanderer100 wrote: »

Be interesting to see where he goes. It's the right move for him nonetheless

https://twitter.com/JonathanShrager/status/1405097015873245184?s=20

Would have preferred him to stay over Bailly tbh but he needs a full season of football again. Surely confirms we have a CB on the way in.

Mitch Connor

Interesting the Tuanzebe would be getting sent on out on loan. Raises two questions...

1. Are the club confident they will be getting a new CB in the door (we've been linked to a number).
2. Are the club not confident one of the current other senior 3 CBs will be wanted at the club in summer 22? If we do sign a CB, could see Lindelof displaced and Bailly back down to 4th choice, and one of them being sold and replaced with Tuanzebe next summer.

Lord TSC

Yeah, I see zero chance of Tunzebe heading off on loan without a new CB being 99% done first.

If true, that loan is good news on multiple levels...

beakerjoe

Id be ok with Bailly going, but it all depends on who replaces him.

Id like Maguire and Axel to at least get a chance. Loved Acel against PSG but then he was dropped the next game. Dont feel the Turkish game was all down to him

TheG0AT

or maybe they want to see what they have in Teden Mengi if they give him the minutes Axel got last year and see what they have in both guys and make a decision in summer 22 on both. Axel on loan would also help boost his value, could fetch £20m+ for him after a good season elsewhere

Brendan Flowers

Hindsight is a great thing, but looking back now it's such a pity Tuanzebe wasn't given another year on loan at Villa the season they can back into the Premier League. If he had managed to stay fit and got a full season of PL experience under his belt, he could have been Maguire's main partner in the Utd defence by now.

Whatsisname

TheG0AT wrote: »

or maybe they want to see what they have in Teden Mengi if they give him the minutes Axel got last year and see what they have in both guys and make a decision in summer 22 on both. Axel on loan would also help boost his value, could fetch £20m+ for him after a good season elsewhere

Think he's fairly nailed on to head back to Derby again this season.

Weepsie

Drumpot wrote: »

United's fixtures to mid October are all the kind of ones you would expect them to win. This will give us an indication if Ole has learned how to start showing prolonged consistency in games you would expect wins. You would expect the club to be there or thereabouts in the league before the following run of league games.

From mid October its a crazy run:

Oct 16 Leicester A
Oct 23 Liverpool H
Oct 30 Spurs A
Nov 6 City H
Nov 20 Watford A
Nov 27 Chelsea H

That is juicy. If United are still mounting some sort of decent challenge by December 1st, things will start to get interesting.

These are the games they'll do okay in though, it's the "easier" games and risk of slow start that'll be tricky.


Now we await the inevitable dicking around with the schedule for sky and bt.

Are they showing every game again? I got a bit sick of it personally so just didn't watch. I always preferred the multiple games kicking off at same time

EltonJohn69

Should Man Utd get deschamps as manager. Maybe some French flags around old Trafford ? Make French the default/mandatory language ????

v3ttel

Weepsie wrote: »

I always preferred the multiple games kicking off at same time

I'm the opposite. I really enjoy having up to 4 games being shown live. It's great to have the option to watch more football.

It also means less United games needing dodgy streams because they're clashing with another big game.

El Gato De Negocios

v3ttel wrote: »

I'm the opposite. I really enjoy having up to 4 games being shown live. It's great to have the option to watch more football.

It also means less United games needing dodgy streams because they're clashing with another big game.

No dodgy streams with a decent IPTV subscription lad.

Tchaikovsky

EltonJohn69 wrote: »

Should Man Utd get deschamps as manager. Maybe some French flags around old Trafford ? Make French the default/mandatory language ????

He'll probably go to Juventus or Chelsea when they sack Tuchel, whichever is available first. He's a conservative manager so probably wouldn't be to United fans' liking.

StringerBell

Whatsisname wrote: »

Would have preferred him to stay over Bailly tbh but he needs a full season of football again. Surely confirms we have a CB on the way in.

Think your forgetting about Phil Jones, having him back next year will be like a new signing sure

Whatsisname

StringerBell wrote: »

Think your forgetting about Phil Jones, having him back next year will be like a new signing sure

TheG0AT

StringerBell wrote: »

Think your forgetting about Phil Jones, having him back next year will be like a new signing sure

Every year he's like a new signing :rolleyes:

Pipmae

Anything Ronaldo can do ............

https://twitter.com/utdreport/status/1405094782964318212

AidoEirE

What would people think of AWB starting to play at CB. Quick, strong, has the height and can read the game well defensively. He's young enough that you could mould him into the position.

AidoEirE

It would leave a gap at RB but Dalot back from loan and tripper if reported for 15 mil.

Julez

AidoEirE wrote: »

What would people think of AWB starting to play at CB. Quick, strong, has the height and can read the game well defensively. He's young enough that you could mould him into the position.

Couldn't trust him under a cross at all would be my main issue!

JPA

Pipmae wrote: »

Anything Ronaldo can do ............

https://twitter.com/utdreport/status/1405094782964318212

He is a Muslim but it's 0.0 Heineken.

Mitch Connor

AWB at CB would be a disaster, imo. He'd end up standing beside Shaw he drifts so much.

At 'best' I would consider 3rd CB in a back 3 - but even then I would worry about crosses from our left side coming to his area. which would be an even bigger issue with him at RCB rather than RB

TRC10

It would be absolute madness to play AWB at CB.

He's still pretty much learning to play RB, as he was a winger until relatively recently.

It would be crazy to spend so much money on him, invest so much time into him as a RB, and then have him start learning a new position all over again.

Not to mention he lacks many key attributes to play CB.

Just stick an actual RW in front of him and the right hand side is grand. Gary Neville wasn't exactly Cafu

PARlance

AidoEirE wrote: »

What would people think of AWB starting to play at CB. Quick, strong, has the height and can read the game well defensively. He's young enough that you could mould him into the position.

Haven't seen much of him reading games defensively tbh, his positioning is awful at times and it's much easier to do so at FB than CB. His main strength is his one on one tackling which you shouldn't need to be doing so much at CB.

The only way I could see it working is if it was as part of a back 3 which is being used increasing these days for tactical reasons but for us, it might be more of a case of playing 3 CBs when you don't have 2 who are good enough.