Manchester United Teamtalk/Transfer/Gossip 23/24 - [New Thread Available]

TRC10

I dont understand the calls to sign Grealish. He is great and all.

But signing him just leaves us with the same problem we have with Pogba.

Where does he play?

We have Rashford and Martial for LW

And we have Bruno and Donny for CAM.

We should be signing players in positions we need. Not in positions where we're already stacked.

loyatemu

City bid for Kane:
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/soccer/english-soccer/manchester-city-make-harry-kane-bid-worth-at-least-117m-to-spurs-1.4599256

I guess the best we can hope for here (other than Spurs refusing point blank to sell) is that he fails to integrate with City's way of playing and disrupts their style like Veron did to us and Torres did at Chelsea. If he clicks then forget about anyone else winning the title.

Zeek12

TRC10 wrote: »

I dont understand the calls to sign Grealish. He is great and all.

But signing him just leaves us with the same problem we have with Pogba.

Where does he play?

We have Rashford and Martial for LW

And we have Bruno and Donny for CAM.

We should be signing players in positions we need. Not in positions where we're already stacked.

I would think the expectation is to play Bruno deeper. And get rid of the double pivot. Play Grealish as the AM.
To do this we would need imo a top level DM (which we currently don't have).

And even then - you would take away one of our best attacking assets (Bruno) from the opposition goal and play him much deeper. Which is an issue in itself. And not something I would like personally.

If we're seriously contemplating Grealish, surely Pogba has to be sold.

Martial I think is a CF in Ole's mind, he already has enough options at LW.

Claude Burgundy

Mitch Connor wrote: »

I don't agree with your maths here.

Lets say it is 104m over 5 years for Pogba, that will likely not include any 'loyalty' bonus/signing on fee or agent commision. So there would be an increase there - you con conservatively look at 120m, imo.

your math on the wages looks off 70,000 over 5 years would be 18m, so you are looking at ~120million in replacement cost for your math. 70k is unrealistic imo, you'd be looking at 120k minimum - so about 31million over 5 years, which would bring replacement cost to 131 million.

So keeping Pogba costs 120million, replacing him (conservatively) 130million.

But selling Pogba for a cheap 50 million on your example brings the net replacement cost down to 80 million, 40 million less than keeping him.

You also have, arguably, hopefully, a player that is more committed to the cause and fits with what the team needs in both/either direction of play.

The cost of keeping/replacing him is a bigger issue beyond the summer when we would have to be looking at replacing a player at big cost, with no return from the player being lost - as we would get zero fee for him next summer.

United really do need to either get him signed or sold this summer, and IMO it has to be SOLD. Because I don't think they would be capable of agreeing a contract with Pogba in the next month. So I would absolutely be looking to sell him, so that at least some transfer fee can be reinvested. Keeping him beyond the summer, without signing a new contract, will create a massive circus the team can do without.

NO its 70 mil over 5 yrs in wages and bonuses, not 70k a week

The_Kew_Tour

I can picture this place in around 1st August already, will be pretty much like every other season.

Mayhem.

Pogba gets a pay rise, Jesse returns and we are struggling to sign a second player. Ah yes, it’s all ahead of us.

Mitch Connor

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

I can picture this place in around 1st August already, will be pretty much like every other season.

Mayhem.

Pogba gets a pay rise, Jesse returns and we are struggling to sign a second player. Ah yes, it’s all ahead of us.

"United have admitted defeat in attempts to sign Kieran Trippier, but manager Ole Gunnar Solskjaer is reported to have been very impressed with Diogo Dalot in preseason and thinks he could be a real contender for the first team".

******

"While United internally are saying they are still confident a deal for Jadon Sancho can be reached, they are also not being drawn into speculation regarding Jessie Lingard. "Jessie was arguably the best player in the league after Christmas - we always knew he had that ability and with renewed confidence we are sure the lad is gonna have a great season for us.".

*******

TheG0AT

The_Kew_Tour wrote:

Pogba gets a pay rise, Jesse returns and we are struggling to sign a second player. Ah yes, it’s all ahead of us.

I doubt well have a first by then nevermind a second

Mitch Connor

TheG0AT wrote: »

I doubt well have a first by then nevermind a second

Nah, we've got Heaton sorted!

nullzero

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

I can picture this place in around 1st August already, will be pretty much like every other season.

Mayhem.

Pogba gets a pay rise, Jesse returns and we are struggling to sign a second player. Ah yes, it’s all ahead of us.

Throw Harry Kane going to City into the mix and it'll be some scene here. No doubt they'll have him signed and his face plastered all over their jet planes while we're still haggling with Dortmund before the Sancho deal falls through again.

It has to be better going forward with Woodward gone doesn't it?

We can't possibly have another Fellaini situation this year?

loyatemu

nullzero wrote: »

We can't possibly have another Fellaini situation this year?

is he available?

jimmytwotimes 2013

loyatemu wrote: »

is he available?

We're only signing him if we can get Baines too

nullzero

jimmytwotimes 2013 wrote: »

We're only signing him if we can get Baines too

Might finally get our hands on Wesley Sneijder as well.

GSPfan

I’m a bit in shock that City have reportedly bid 100 million for Kane. It makes me believe that they will get him now. The 100 million bid will be knocked back but 100 million and a player would be somewhere in the 150 million range and that is just ridiculous.

Honestly delighted that City have made their move as It takes us out of the picture and I’d rather we spend that kinda money on a CDM and CB.

StringerBell

I'm amazed they have bid that kind of money for him, amazed.

I guess the owners do really want that England captain as a feather in the bow.

kippy

StringerBell wrote: »

I'm amazed they have bid that kind of money for him, amazed.

I guess the owners do really want that England captain as a feather in the bow.

They have pretty much unlimited money. The financial fair play rules are totally ineffective.
Why wouldn't they bid that kind of money for him?

Claude Burgundy

And today's new rumour is.....................Pau Torres.

Cotts72

Claude Burgundy wrote: »

And today's new rumour is.....................Pau Torres.

I fear he's not much of an improvement on lindelof from the little I've seen

Mitch Connor

Claude Burgundy wrote: »

And today's new rumour is.....................Pau Torres.

He's been linked for months now, and always positioned as the 'cheaper' alternative to Varane and the guy at Seville.

I wonder if links to Torres are to get Madrid talking on a fee for Varane, as Torres has been heavily linked to them as well as the replacement for Varane.

Bounty Hunter

I know he only has a year left on his deal with Madrid but now that Ramos has left them would they not be far more likely to improve their contract renewal offer to Varane rather than lose both their CBs from last season?

NITRO95

Madrid just signed David Alaba. Now unless they plan to play him as a CDM I don't think they will be signing another LCB in Pau Torres

PARlance

Cotts72 wrote: »

I fear he's not much of an improvement on lindelof from the little I've seen

Maybe not but I wonder what impact it would have on Maguire. If we were interested in Torres then it would surely mean that Maguire would switch to RCB, Torres being left footed.

Claude Burgundy

PARlance wrote: »

Maybe not but I wonder what impact it would have on Maguire. If we were interested in Torres then it would surely mean that Maguire would switch to RCB, Torres being left footed.

Yes there has been a lot of talk with regard to a specific left footed centre back.

StringerBell

kippy wrote: »

They have pretty much unlimited money. The financial fair play rules are totally ineffective.
Why wouldn't they bid that kind of money for him?

Because they have never bid anything close to that kind of money for a player

NITRO95

I think for this summer Ole should make a decision on whether he plans to stick with the double pivot in midfield or if he wants a specialist CDM to free up another midfielder to attack. If he plans to stick with the double pivot then we absolutely need a new CB but if a CDM is on the cards then I think we could hold off on a CB and see how Maguire and Lindelof perform when they get some real help and protection

Liam O

Claude Burgundy wrote: »

And today's new rumour is.....................Pau Torres.

Is that a new rumour? I feel I've heard that for months if not longer?

~Rebel~

StringerBell wrote: »

Because they have never bid anything close to that kind of money for a player

True, but at the same time, moves like De Bruyne and Sterling 6 years ago were pretty close to the top end of transfer spending at the time (De Bruyne was the highest transfer that year), so they've kind of teased top end spending before.
This current Kane bid would be around the 10th highest ever, while De Bruyne was around 3rd or 4th I think back at the time. I'm sure if they stick with it, this one will end up being around that area too, maybe matching what Atleti spent on Felix.

It probably helps that they need very little in the way of transfers this season too, with a fairly gigantic squad. A forward and maybe a holding midfielder and they'd be in great shape.

It is interesting to see them return to this level of spending after 4 or 5 years of consistent high quality but-not-crazy signings... not a great sign for the rest of us for the future!

Still no Sancho for England. Foden replaced by Saka.

The Big Easy

Could we do a Poborsky and buy this Schick guy?

KH25

Exactly wrote: »

Still no Sancho for England. Foden replaced by Saka.

At this rate I’d be surprised to see him feature at all. Southgate doesn’t seem to rate him.

jimmytwotimes 2013

Unimpressed with Rice in this tournament. Hope we don't go near him

Bleating Lamb

jimmytwotimes 2013 wrote: »

Unimpressed with Rice in this tournament. Hope we don't go near him

Jordan Henderson has completed more forward passes in ten minutes than Rice did in the whole first half!

Quandary

Bleating Lamb wrote: »

Jordan Henderson has completed more forward passes in ten minutes than Rice did in the whole first half!

Yep, and he can't even run properly!

False Prophet

jimmytwotimes 2013 wrote: »

Unimpressed with Rice in this tournament. Hope we don't go near him

Id be worried if utd had been interested in him, maybe he be ok as a squad player i but certainly not worth 60+.

Id say those suggesting him for utd hadn't watched much of him and just thought he would be able to play dm all by himself and "unlock" progba etc.

Need to look for someone with technical abilty and passing ability of Carrick/matic.
Phillips would be a better fit of the 2 if I was pushed to get 1

jimmytwotimes 2013

Sancho must have p1ssed on Southgate's Pizza Hut

Your Airbag

[COPE]Sergio Ramos has communicated to several real madrid players that he will be joining PSG

Bleating Lamb

jimmytwotimes 2013 wrote: »

Sancho must have p1ssed on Southgate's Pizza Hut

Either that or like Rice he is possibly a tad overrated;)

To be fair to Sancho,Saka is an excellent player so no disgrace he didn’t start in his place.....however Saka usually plays on the left for Arsenal so it’s disappointing he started before Sancho on the right imo.

beakerjoe

After that England gane Id rather have Saka than Sancho.

FourFourRED

Bleating Lamb wrote: »

however Saka usually plays on the left for Arsenal so it’s disappointing he started before Sancho on the right imo.

Saka has played more games on the right wing than anywhere else last season

The_Kew_Tour

Southgate is s brutal manager and that might work in our favour with Sancho been more fresh

TRC10

On a positive note, Rashford looked sharp when he came on.

fatherted1969

Utd need to give Pogba agent an ultimatum, either sign an extension or if they are planning on him running his contract down then let him know he's not going to figure as a starting player next season. See if he's willing to train and play with the reserves for 12 months

Mitch Connor

fatherted1969 wrote: »

Utd need to give Pogba agent an ultimatum, either sign an extension or if they are planning on him running his contract down then let him know he's not going to figure as a starting player next season. See if he's willing to train and play with the reserves for 12 months

The club simply are not going to dump him to the reserves for the season, its just not going to happen.

THe club have little leverage to be honest.

We can't force a sale this summer, if he simply rejects the contract offer from any side we accept an offer from he stays.

If he 'accepts' a contract for next summer with, say, PSG, then they have the ability to say either sell him to us for 20m now, or we take him on a free in 12 months. United would then have to decide if 20m now is better than Pogba for 12months (and if 20m is too low from a PR perspective as much as anything else) - they could ask for 50, but again - they have little power.

I don't disagree with the general notion of getting him signed on a new contract or sold this summer, but it just isn't that simple - united can't force the issue either way.

My personal thought on it is whether we could arrange, essentially, a player swap with Madrid. Pogba goes there, Varane comes here and they both get bought for the same price. United and Madrid would get an accounting injection of 50million, for example, coming in, with an amortized 10 or 12.5million going out (50million over 4 or 5 years depending on contract) in exchange.

Hodors Appletart

Jaysis the thinking behind the idea that a club is just going to "dump" an asset like Pogba in the reserves

Liam O

beakerjoe wrote: »

After that England gane Id rather have Saka than Sancho.

Why? How did Sancho do in his 10 minutes?

billyhead

Sancho was never going to be a starter with Southgates conservative style of football. At least with Ole we are trying to play an attacking progressive style of football. I still have doubts we will sign him though.

StringerBell

The club has zero leverage over Pogba at this stage, his future will be decided by him. If they feel he can get a significantly better deal for himself by playing out his deal and then moving to the likes of Madrid/PSG whoever then that will be weighed up against how much he wants to win trophies as he is almost certainly not going to be getting a sniff of them again next season at United.

The only way I can see him sold this summer is if PSG come in with a bid after the Euros and he is happy to go there and the club will get to recoup some of the money invested on him.

StringerBell

billyhead wrote: »

Sancho was never going to be a starter with Southgates conservative style of football. At least with Ole we are trying to play an attacking progressive style of football. I still have doubts we will sign him though.

Leaving aside the argument about whether we are genuinely playing an attacking progressive style of football or not -

Saka, Sterling, Foden, Grealish.

Do you associate these players with conservative styles of football?

I get that not holding it against him too much that GS doesn't seem to rate him very highly but I do think people need to guard against falling into some kind of defensive trench about Sancho at the same time staking everything on him being some kind of unappreciated dynamo who is going to set the league on fire straight away if he were to join.

The price tag and the weight of expectation will be heavy on a young player and even if all were to go well it would likely require a settling in period.

paulbok

Hodors Appletart wrote: »

Jaysis the thinking behind the idea that a club is just going to "dump" an asset like Pogba in the reserves

I know. The reserves have enough problems without adding Pogba to the mix.

v3ttel

fatherted1969 wrote: »

Utd need to give Pogba agent an ultimatum, either sign an extension or if they are planning on him running his contract down then let him know he's not going to figure as a starting player next season. See if he's willing to train and play with the reserves for 12 months

Nice in theory, but in reality, it is not a good look for the club to be treating players in this way.

Who wants to play for a club that banishes one of their most talented players to the reserves for 12 months?

It would disrupt the dressing room, lessen the chances of success as there is less quality on the pitch, create a circus which would be a huge distraction and flush a couple of hundred per week down the sh!tter for no reason.

Convince him to sign a new contract, sell him, or play him and accept the consequences of allowing him to get this far without his future sorted. Those are the realistic options.

beakerjoe

Liam O wrote: »

Why? How did Sancho do in his 10 minutes?

Anonymous. Saka looks good, and would be cheaper.