Manchester United Teamtalk/Transfer/Gossip 23/24 - [New Thread Available]

FourFourRED

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122349447#Comment_122349447

https://twitter.com/swedishrumble/status/1809368757455761836?s=12

This post intrigued me regarding the situation if we make an early move and sign Zirkzee. I’m not claiming I know the right thing to do but I wonder is it a worry if we are somewhat locked in to two “potential” centre forwards for the next few years? Feels like a gamble.
(I’m aware that players can be sold and you can sign a third striker if things don’t work out but that’s highly inefficient and at what cost, financially and team performance wise over these next few important years).

NITRO95

Romano making sound like De Ligt is just a matter of when not if

https://twitter.com/FabrizioRomano/status/1809857382584918337?t=aR1kjxnY45a8MAZEX-oFrA&s=19

kerplun k

Am I only one here who thinks MDL is a bad fit. They might as well just save the hassle and keep McGuire. MDL is not exactly an upgrade.

Iseedeadpixels

Sunday Fart.

MAIL ON SUNDAY

Manchester United are finally set to offload Donny van de Beek this summer according to reports in Spain.

Rio Ferdinand was among the pundits heaping praise on Kobbie Mainoo after his impressive first-half display against Switzerland.

SUNDAY MIRROR

Manchester United are confident of signing Matthijs de Ligt in a deal worth around £43million after manager Erik ten Hag stepped up his charm offensive to take the Bayern Munich defender to Old Trafford.

kyleman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122350030#Comment_122350030

Maguire has only this year left on his contract so unless we sell him he walks for free so if we could get 20 mil. for him it surely makes financial sense

Whether MDL will be a big improvement remains to be seen but surely has potential.

IncognitoMan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122350030#Comment_122350030

I can understand people questioning if he is the exact profile of defender we need. If he solves the main issues with the backline, hell even if his injury record is something to look at now etc.. Those are questions that do need to be answered.

But to think De Ligt isn't an upgrade on Maguire is absolute nonsense. He is currently a far better defender than Maguire is/was and he's about 6 years younger than him.

I don't know if we are underestimating De Ligt or overestimating Maguire but they aren't on the same level at all.

De Ligt has the ability and tools to be the best CB on the planet. He may or may not ever reach that level but nobody in their right mind would ever have said that about Maguire.

FourFourRED

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122350196#Comment_122350196

I’m certainly not against the signing but I did say I was on the fence previously purely because I haven’t seen enough of him in real time and I think if people are honest there is a lot of us in the same boat. I think he could be a solid player for us and he’s a name I would have been excited about a few years ago. I’m quietly excited about it now too because he’s the personality signing that I think we need. A big strong leader who should complement Martinez well. Ball carrying appears to be a limitation so I’d imagine that would be left up to Martinez. From clips I’ve seen, some of his tackling in terms of the timing and old school slide tackling is nice to watch.

I don’t think Bayern Munich would be open to selling someone who “has the ability to become the best CB on the planet” though. Why would they have signed multiple CB’s after bringing him in, if that was the case? Do we United see something they don’t? Or is it just a safe bet from ten Hag? I think it’s likely to be more of the latter. Not trying to be negative at all, I just think that might be a bit of a stretch but at the same time this could be the opportunity he needs to reach the potential he has. Let’s hope it works out that way.

If anyone is looking to learn more about him I thought this was a good starting point:

https://twitter.com/pythaginboots/status/1808501494318076307?s=12

FourFourRED

Zirkzee close

https://twitter.com/david_ornstein/status/1809919060131389743?s=12

Iseedeadpixels

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122350494#Comment_122350494

I'm excited to see this guy based on the totally not biased youtube vids I've watched!

Iseedeadpixels

I reckon we'll agree a higher price to pay in installments and get him early instead of the full 40m to activate the clause.

Father Hernandez

I'm quietly excited about the signings of de Ligt and Zirkzee, more so the former.

At the time he was moving to Juventus, he was one player I'd love for United to go in for, huge potential and a real leader in the making. Hasn't exactly lit up the place since but still young at 24.

My reservations with both - big clubs like Bayern rarely get it wrong when selling players moreso with MDL. He's 24 years old and they're happy to let him go, it just doesn't seem right. Bayern let Zirkzee go off to Bologna as well as well at 21 but sometimes players, moreso attacking players just develop a bit later.

The only saving grace these days is that these signings are being made while Ashworth, Vivell, Wilcox and Berrada are at the club. That does give me confidence tbh and just have to trust their judgement, world away from Ed Woodward and gang.

Mitch Connor

I think there is potential that we also want to make sure Rashford and to a lesser extent Bruno will remain in the squad before signing zirzkee. Imo he signs to, in large part, facilitate and improve them. If Rashford was to leave you need to replace him on the wing and the profile if that winger would then impact the striker you look to.

bucketybuck

It'll just get called negativity or whatever nonsense, but I really had hoped United would stop buying players with obvious red flags.

I really hope the financials are right on these deals if they happen, less than 40m and 150k p/w would be my sense of that.

Every signing is a risk, any player can fail, but it would be real **** annoying to stand here in 9 months lamenting that United can't play certain styles because of DeLicht or that the striker with underwhelming goal stats isn't scoring goals in the PL.

Mitch Connor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122350622#Comment_122350622

If we are looking for zirkzee to be a 20 goal striker we're morons.

But we will need a serious up tick from Rashford, garnacho and Bruno, and imo zirkzee would be planned to enable that.

Iseedeadpixels

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122350622#Comment_122350622

I think its acceptable to worry about MDL, we need a super pacey CB and he's not that, his knee injuries are a concern too.

y0ssar1an22

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122350521#Comment_122350521

i'd say you're right. the last set of accounts we had a cash balance of 76m. granted, that was june 2023. but i cant see that having moved too much in the positive direction in the last 12 months.

so i cant see us spending 50% of our cash up front on 1 transfer. bologna will be well within their rights to demand it up front though, and if that is the case the deal could very well collapse.

maybe we go to that rotating credit facility to get it done, but i reckon SJR wont want to do that.

DM_7

Bayern are a long time out of the zone where their judgement should give cause for concern (or optimism) about players or managers.

In 22/23 they bought Mane, Gravenberch and De Ligt and looks like all 3 will be gone already.

They also signed Mazraoui and then ended up buying Boey last winter window after loaning another full back (Stanisic) out in the summer window. They now have all three in the squad with Stanisic signing a new deal upon winning the league with the club he was loaned out to.

The manager situations have been a mess, with the most recent scenario looking really amateur.

The boardroom has been a mess also, they fired Kahn (chief exec) and Salidhamidzic (sporting director) in May 23 while the team was celebrating another league winning season.

It is all a bit like United at times where there is a race to try and reset and some players are going to get caught up in that.

None of that means de Ligt is the right player for United but in terms of tying to see if he is right for United - I am not seeing reasons to think Bayern's judgment means much right now.

All_in_Flynn

Preseason tomorrow. Does Greenwood and Sancho show up do we reckon?

Iseedeadpixels

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122351145#Comment_122351145

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5618382/2024/07/07/manchester-united-greenwood-sancho-pre-season/

What’s the latest on Mason Greenwood’s return?

After his loan spell at Getafe ended, Greenwood is a United player once more and would typically be expected to return to training with the rest of the squad on Monday.

However, Greenwood is likely to be given additional time off as the club continues working to secure a possible sale. Marseille and Lazio are in advanced talks for the 22-year-old.

Greenwood has not trained at Carrington since his arrest for attempted rape, assault, and coercive control in January 2022 and subsequent suspension by United.

Following the UK’s Crown Prosecution Service decision to discontinue the case last year, United initially planned to reintegrate Greenwood but performed a U-turn, ultimately deciding he would resume his career away from Old Trafford.

He has attracted interest from a range of European clubs this summer, having scored 10 goals in 36 appearances for Getafe last season. All options remain open for Greenwood — whether that be a sale, loan or return — but a permanent exit remains United’s preference.

Mark Critchley

What’s the latest on Jadon Sancho’s return? 

Jadon Sancho is due to return to Carrington following the end of his loan spell at Borussia Dortmund, even though his differences with Ten Hag remain unresolved.

Sancho was placed on a personal training programme away from the rest of the squad last September after publicly criticising Ten Hag, claiming he had been made “a scapegoat for a long time”, and then refusing to apologise.

Ten Hag’s contract extension makes the 24-year-old’s reintegration difficult unless there is a reconciliation. At the start of the window, United were open to listening to offers for Sancho regardless of their manager’s future.

An asking price of £40m is yet to be met, however, with Sancho’s salary of more than £200,000 per week and status as one of United’s highest-earning players meaning there are obstacles to a quick sale.

Sancho’s return is viewed as a chance to turn over a new leaf and revive his Old Trafford career although it is unclear whether there will be clear-the-air talks on his return with Ten Hag at this stage.

Mark Critchley

Lauras Law

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122342535#Comment_122342535

Who at United is getting paid £400k per week?

Iseedeadpixels

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122351474#Comment_122351474

None, Casemiro and Varane were on about 350k but they're gone, Rashford is next on 300k but thats gonna come down with no Champions League.

Mitch Connor

I believe all those contracts have some element of bonus payments too, appearance fee, goals etc. I think those are the top line best case figures.

kyleman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122351748#Comment_122351748

I'd say less than 10 goals between the 3 of them. Bonuses will be low.

waywill1966

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122351585#Comment_122351585

Casemiro gone? Missed that, where did he go?

The Moist Buddha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122351888#Comment_122351888

Saudi arabia

Mitch Connor

He's gone nowhere.

He'll be back at Carrington tomorrow.

Weepsie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122343519#Comment_122343519

That actually hasn't been the criticism but well done once again for reading into what's written what you want to protect for your own biases

Iseedeadpixels

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122351888#Comment_122351888

Nearly gone*

Iseedeadpixels

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122352057#Comment_122352057

https://twitter.com/fabrizioromano/status/1810053111987208456?s=46

Fabrizio must have seen my feck up 😅

Iseedeadpixels

https://twitter.com/dimarzio/status/1810067711751557521?s=46&t=k_FBGnsbG2P0PN0vqz37RA

Interesting that they are paying it in one go, must be a few outgoings close.

Mitch Connor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122352946#Comment_122352946

I don't think he is right.

I reckon we've told them we will pay it, if we can't negotiate a deal with them. But I'm sure we'll try to negotiate a deal.

Dwarf.Shortage

With all of the obvious caveats about it being a YouTube highlights video etc he does look a good player and £34m isn’t the fee it once was. That’s not a top tier fee like it was when we paid it for Rooney.

https://youtu.be/xSrPvdnnxvA?si=AU8CQArDSThRFrSQ

It is mildly concerning he can’t get picked over Depay or Wout and nobody seems to be fighting us for him.

Iseedeadpixels

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122353072#Comment_122353072

Milan wanted him, nobody wants to pay his agent 15m.

Dwarf.Shortage

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122353170#Comment_122353170

Fair enough.

I’ve always found those fees fairly transparent when people claim they are ridiculous for an agent. Say Raiola getting £24m for the Pogba move or this guy who’s Zirkzee’s agent getting a huge fee despite having previous for charging extortionate fees. People wonder how they keep attracting clients when their mad fees hold up deals and overpay them etc.

Is the answer not fairly obvious? A good chunk of the fee ends up with the player? The likes of Raiola would sit Pogba down and say if Juve are gonna sell you for £90m don’t you think you deserve some of that. Let’s pretend my fee is £24m but £15-20m of it goes to you.

There’s a reason these agents gouge clubs year after year yet are never short of a client.

FourFourRED

Almost 60,000 signatures on the Bayern fans’ petition to stop the de Ligt sale 🤭

https://www.change.org/p/keep-de-ligt-wir-wollen-de-ligt

PARlance

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122353072#Comment_122353072

My first thoughts were that he's a central Sancho-type player, not a ringing endorsement. The idea that he might create for Rashford/Garnacho and Hojlund is possibly exciting, but I'm not sure how well that's going to work with Bruno wanting to play that role/in that space as well.

We have one young, relatively unproven striker in Hojlund, and we badly needed someone to help with goals... so we've went out and are trying to get a striker who is not very good at scoring.

If he does come in to play a creative role with Hojlund out wider... we'll find ourselves looking at our bench in matches with no real attacking options on it. Maybe they're expecting big things for Wheatley.

Mitch Connor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122353564#Comment_122353564

It isn't dissimilar form the role Bruno played with martial, who liked to drop off into space. and that is arguably when Bruno was at his best. Which in turn creates space from bruno to attack around the box. and while I think Rasmus could play from wide, I think it will be one or the other starting most of the time.

As for being a Sancho type player… great. Its what we are missing, imo. As it stands all 3 of our forwards try to score more than create. We NEED someone to try help move the ball, create spaces and look for runs. If Sancho had applied himself better, we'd have been a better side. Sancho, even if poor, was still one of our more effective creators.

I do think if Rashford had pushed to leave we may have looked at a creative wideplayer to replace him and then a goal scoring number 9. But with/if Rashford is staying, along with Bruno staying (not a given, really) then you look to get them hitting 20 goals each, along with a decent return from Rasmus, Garnahco and whomever the attacking addition is. You'd be hopign for 70 goals from that lot, imo, in terms of planning. Plus a few from mainoo, mount and a few of the other players.

Bleating Lamb

Imo the possible Zirkzee signing has more positives than negatives going for it.

He is young so if things don’t work out he can still be sold in two years time for a decent fee.

He is a physically imposing player which would be important if he was playing upfront alongside Amad and Garnacho.

His fee is just over a third of what Anthony cost.

He seems to be better at holding up the ball and passing to his wingers than Rasmus.

Given his relatively low fee I wouldn’t be surprised if Ineos have factored in also signing a cheap experienced striker in the final days of the transfer window.Dependant of course on how much deadwood they get moved out in the interim.

PARlance

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122353572#Comment_122353572

I get the appeal but I'm fairly cautious about it. I think he'll be looking to be a lot more active in build ups than Martial ever was, Martial created space by vacating space / drifting wide a lot of the time. Zirkzee seems to want to get on the ball centrally a lot more and play that progressive pass a lot more... I'll need a bit of convincing that himself and Bruno can get the balance right.

Not that I'm ever going to defend Sancho but it hadn't worked out for him long before there were issues with his application. Antony, a more creative type, was another one who couldn't get it going. Bruno is our most creative player but he tends to bypass other creativity and go for the killer ball a lot of the time.

I would like to get excited about the signing but recent history would point to Zirkzee being another Sancho or Antony.

Mitch Connor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122353707#Comment_122353707

Antony is not a creative type, imo. He gets the ball, cuts inside, shoots. Thats his play or attempted play the vast majority of hte time. He can't play off his right foot so cant go wide and cross. is slow at releasing the ball and his inswinging crossing is poor.

I don't really get the bruno criticism here either. What 'other creativity'? I get the issue with the killer ball over the top all the time… but then I think that is 100% tactical in terms of EtH wanting to release the quick forwards in behind asap.

Naybe him and Bruno won't get that balance right… in which case Rasmus comes in and we try something different, i guess. Having two different profiles to play different ways is a good thing, imo. I would somewhat guess the idea is that Zirkzee and Bruno would form up similar to bruno and McT in the last games of the season, with Bruno more so in the McT position and Zirkzee as the false 9.

As for recent history… meh. Wilcox, Berrada, Ashworth and Vivel have never been involved in a transfer at United, and INEOS have been critical of our transfer work in the past so using past history is a bad guage of how things will turn out.

PARlance

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122353738#Comment_122353738

I suppose Antony might be best described as a nothing type player, but I would class him as a more creative type player myself. He does cut inside and shoot way too often but I think he is also the type that likes to play off someone. He just can't do it at this level it seems.

I was trying to not make my Bruno point a Bruno criticism, because as you say, that's down to ETH to make it work.

Will ETH make it work? I won't hold my breath. Maybe Eriksen is a better example to use as a creative player that hasn't worked, I don't think anyone can deny Eriksen's creativity. Bar the very rare game that Bruno was suspended or rested, we haven't even seen it be attempted to work. We signed a very creative no. 10 and played him as a holding midfielder.

While I would be optimistic about what Wilcox, Berrada etc can bring long term, they won't be picking the team or playing passes. The best I can do with the Zirkzee signing working out is, I'll believe it when I see it.

We really struggled for goals last year. As mad as it sounds, I would have thought a goalscorer would have been top of the list. Getting someone who might help others score more seems a little bit misguided for me.

I get that he brings options to the attack, but that kind of signing would be further down the road for me.

Iseedeadpixels

Todays Daily Fart :

DAILY MAIL

Manchester United will hold a recruitment meeting on Monday as they look to push ahead on imminent transfers and finalise deals for both Joshua Zirkzee and Matthijs de Ligt.

DAILY MIRROR

Bayern Munich will receive £17m as part of the deal involving Joshua Zirkzee's move to Manchester United from Bologna.

Gleison Bremer admits he's "flattered" by links of a move to Manchester United - but insists he's happy at Juventus.

THE SUN

Manchester United and Arsenal are set for a £30m war over Brian Brobbey.

PARlance

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122353618#Comment_122353618

If that was to be the case, then it makes the Zirkzee signing a lot better for me. We need some more firepower up top.

billyhead

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122353564#Comment_122353564

The plan must be to spread the goal scoring responsibilities across the front 4-5 because we won't have an out and out goal scorers and Rasmus isn't the answer.

billyhead

We desperately need a proper DM rather then attacker so I hope we get Ugarte.

Mantis Toboggan

Wow I thought we were done with Ten Hag deciding the players to be signed, do we not learn anything 😕

DM_7

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122353618#Comment_122353618

Bring back Memphis? Can play anywhere in front line. Has experience and can create as well as score. Out of contract. Might not always be fit but would still be available a lot more than Martial ever was!

Edit: would offer more than Antony has so he could be loaned out then.

Iseedeadpixels

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122354071#Comment_122354071

It's in his contract unfortunately, but I'm going to assume SJR isn't signing off on these without Ashworths approval.

Mitch Connor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122354071#Comment_122354071

I personally think all the players we are being linked with seriously are club targets. Zirkzee and De Ligt being dutch is unfortunate in that respect though! I would worry about any move from Brobby, he does have the stank of an EtH target rather than a club target. But if we do sign him… i gotta hope I am wrong. Even with his Veto, my hope is that INEOS would rather sign no one than a player they don't want themselves. So EtH can veto whoever he wants to, but hopefully doesn't get to dictate the club sign players they don't feel are worth it. So, whomever we sign, I have to assume are a club agreed target.

Weepsie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122352926#Comment_122352926

Classic romano though, playing both sides so he can't be wrong.