Manchester United Teamtalk/Transfer/Gossip 23/24 - [New Thread Available]

Weepsie

Nalz wrote: »

Is it the same position though? Didn't Juve play a diamond or 4-3-3 a lot? I think we're more 4-2-3-1 tbh

He also didn't "dominate" games for them. He had Pirlo, Marchissio and Vidal doing quite a lot of the running of the games. Vidal outscored him from a deeper position too in the 2 seasons they were there and in a few fewer games.

As an aside, that Juve team were just far better than the rest of the league too.

It's like he's only started to learn the disciplined part of the game to play that position and has realised it can't all be the stuff that looks good.

I'd worry though, the moment a new contract comes he'd revert back to type, but maybe not and this is what we'll get forever more

paulbok

Can't be anything but delighted with that win. Some sloppiness in the 1st half to be worked on, but to win like that after feeling the usual semifinal 'deja vu' at half time is impressive even if Roma proved to be a terrible team.
Credit to Ole and the players for turning it around.
Penalty aside, that is the Pogba we all want at the club. He's been in great form since returning from injury, but my worry is that he's only turning it on for a move /new contract.

S.M.B.

I don't see the Pogba / Rashford / Greenwood / Cavani dilemma as too big of an issue right now. Yes in an ideal world we would have an obvious starting XI where our 11 best players are all on the pitch in their preferred position but right now I think the rotation up top is a good thing as we end this crazy compact season.

Not so long ago it felt like Ole had to start both Bruno and Rashford in every game in order for us to create enough chances to win. That is clearly no longer the case right now. Rashford's body can now get a bit more of a rest ahead of the Euros.

It was also great to watch last night's game and at no stage be that worried about us not progressing. There really is a mental fortitude and patience to both the on field and off field management team right now that should not be under appreciated.

Hopefully that result means that the game in Rome will be little more than a training exercise. Not having to deal with a high pressure high intensity game will be an absolute blessing as 3 days later we play Villa and 2 days after that we play Leicester (which is ridiculous).

Liam O

Weepsie wrote: »

He also didn't "dominate" games for them. He had Pirlo, Marchissio and Vidal doing quite a lot of the running of the games. Vidal outscored him from a deeper position too in the 2 seasons they were there and in a few fewer games.

As an aside, that Juve team were just far better than the rest of the league too.

It's like he's only started to learn the disciplined part of the game to play that position and has realised it can't all be the stuff that looks good.

I'd worry though, the moment a new contract comes he'd revert back to type, but maybe not and this is what we'll get forever more

He definitely puts in more of a shift in the left wing role, though that may just be because the man he is marking is a further distance away or that he plays there in bigger games that he is more motivated.

He quite simply can't play in midfield. He shies away from the ball and doesn't want to drive forward. On the left it's like he drops into the pockets he should be taking up while in midfield and has the confidence to try take someone on the odd time.

I would disagree that he is a better option than Rashford there. Even at Rashford's worst, what he brings to the team's shape and drive on the left is invaluable imo.

Zeek12

sReq | uTeK wrote: »

Imagine its taken this long to play him in the same position...left of the midfield as he did in June and dominated games

Except it hasn't taken this long.

I can remember Pogba was playing that position (left side) back in December/ January.

beakerjoe

I'm a big detractor of Pogba. Until, maybe November this year his United career has been poor beyond a few glimpses of brilliance. Lots of switching off, not working hard enough, poor decision making and petulance. He has the quality but he didn't have the application. Couple that with his toxic agent, and I see no reason to keep him at the club.

But that was pre-November. Since his agent came out on the eve of the Lepzig clash, Pogba has been much improved. Many fantastic performances which to be honest I didn't think he had it in him to play so well for a 4/5 month spell. Last nights second half (and to be fair he didn't have a bad first half, unlucky for teh pen and was part of a lovely opener.)

My fear would be is he just playing for a contact with us/putting himself in the shop window. Either way, he's done himself plenty of favours.

Personally, I dont see a Real, Barca, Juve or PSG coming to buy him.

I think the most likely outcome is that he re-ups with us. Time will tell what happens, but I hope he doesn't stop caring once if he resigns, thats a big fear i have.

Whatsisname

I came across this interesting thread on De Gea's penalty technique last night which seemingly explains his poor record with them while comparing Henderson's technique which looks to give the keeper a better chance of stopping it.

https://twitter.com/Jhdharrison1/status/1387880924919050247?s=20

https://twitter.com/Jhdharrison1/status/1387883948269838336?s=20

PARlance

Zeek12 wrote: »

Except it hasn't taken this long.

I can remember Pogba was playing that position (left side) back in December/ January.

It was Liverpool in Anfield in Jan I think. Martial went off injured early and Pobga went out on the left I think.

Come to think of it, Martial's injury is probably the main reason he has been given so much time there.

beakerjoe

PARlance wrote: »

It was Liverpool in Anfield in Jan I think. Martial went off injured early and Pobga went out on the left I think.

Come to think of it, Martial's injury is probably the main reason he has been given so much time there.

He was had our best chance to score IIRC too.

Listen, Im not his biggest fan, but you cant argue with his recent form over the last 4 to 5 months. When hes played, most time he's been a big positive.

And this is coming from me, a poster who constantly called him lazy, a waster , a passenger and a liability.

Zeek12

PARlance wrote: »

It was Liverpool in Anfield in Jan I think. Martial went off injured early and Pobga went out on the left I think.

Come to think of it, Martial's injury is probably the main reason he has been given so much time there.

The Aston Villa game at home, a few weeks before Anfield, he played left side too.
And had an excellent game.

beakerjoe

In that Henderson example above, it appears that hes come forward off his line, had he saved it it might be retaken.

PARlance

S.M.B. wrote: »

In fairness, every time he has started in that position of late there's a handful of posts expressing annoyance with the decision.

I'm probably one of those and I still stand by it, but it is and always has been mainly because Rashford is playing on the right and he's just not the same player there.

It seems like some people think that WL has to be Pogba's position now, he is very good there but I would go along with what Scholes was saying last night. Pogba and Bruno in midfield and find a holding player that can allow them to play together is ideal for me.

Pogba's good form hasn't just come from playing LW, he was driving the team from midfield in late 2020 as well. The only real problem with that is that Matic seems to be the only player in the squad trusted to play with him there.

beakerjoe

Rashford appears to be second guessing himself alot on the pitch. He gets into a good position, appears to be attempting something.... but hesitates or changes his mind and before you know it, his options are limited or gone. Happened a few times last night.

Hes still capable of doing great things, like teh cross that lead to our pen last night, but he does seem to be a lot more unsure of himself.

Did you smash it

If anyone hears of the ticket portal opening for the final please post something up?

FourFourRED

Incredible news if this turns out to be true.

https://twitter.com/utdreport/status/1388085523000987651?s=12

EltonJohn69

FourFourRED wrote: »

Incredible news if this turns out to be true.

https://twitter.com/utdreport/status/1388085523000987651?s=12

Literally in tears !!!

Zeek12

FourFourRED wrote: »

Incredible news if this turns out to be true.

https://twitter.com/utdreport/status/1388085523000987651?s=12

Thought his contract was 1 year only, right?

So if he's fulfilling his contract (as the tweet says) - doesn't that mean he's staying only until the summer?
Maybe I'm reading it wrong.

Would be amazing to have him for another season!

The thought of Martial and his surly attitude leading the line again makes me want to cry

Lucas Hood

Zeek12 wrote: »

Thought his contract was 1 year only, right?

So if he's fulfilling his contract doesn't that mean he's agreeing to stay only until the summer?
Maybe I'm reading it wrong.

Would be amazing to have him for another season!
The thought of Martial and his surly attitude leading the line again makes me want to cry

The contract was for an option of a 2nd year.
So he'll be fulfilling the 2nd year.

Ashbourne hoop

At least we know now it was the right decision to get rid of Smalling.

Lord TSC

The source on the Cavani news is the same lad who broke the story of him joining us originally last year, so that looks a really good source.

pjohnson

PARlance wrote: »

I'm probably one of those and I still stand by it, but it is and always has been mainly because Rashford is playing on the right and he's just not the same player there.

It seems like some people think that WL has to be Pogba's position now, he is very good there but I would go along with what Scholes was saying last night. Pogba and Bruno in midfield and find a holding player that can allow them to play together is ideal for me.

Pogba's good form hasn't just come from playing LW, he was driving the team from midfield in late 2020 as well. The only real problem with that is that Matic seems to be the only player in the squad trusted to play with him there.

I've seen enough failed midfield pairings and whole formation changes that havent suited the whole team but have "suited" Pogba to know I dont want anymore nonsense tried that will only hurt the team.

We have a settled formation now so either fit in or move. A la Veron/Scholes not fitting well together so Scholes got moved left (or the many English attempt to smush Lampard/Gerrard together, which iirc led to Scholes starting LW for England a few times).

Scholes wasnt as effective left so Veron left. The team benefitted.

RobertKK

So Cavani might be staying, talk that Pogba too could be wanting to stay.

Mitch Connor

Cavani staying would say to me we aren't in the market for a striker. Unless we sell martial.

Could see a DM and maybe Sancho as our summer business.

Maybe a relatively inexpensive right full back, such as tripper.

pjohnson

Cavani staying would be amazing.

Holy FOOK we might actually sign a RW after about a decade without one!

v3ttel

Cavani is rapidly becoming one of my favourite United strikers, up there with Van Nistelrooy. His movement is unbelievable & he always works his socks off for the team. Two absolutely world class assists to go along with him goals yesterday. He will definitely be a fan favourite like Tevez (well, before he did the unmentionable) or Forlan. I just hope he gets to play in front of fans at Old Trafford.

If we can keep him and Pogba, and get 2 or 3 signings in the door, we will be in good shape. Rashford, Greenwood, McTominay, AWB, Henderson will all improve in the next few years. Bruno is a couple of years away from his peak, though it's hard to see how his contribution could be much better. It really is a Summer where if we are serious about consistently challenging for PL or UCL titles, they'll have to push the boat out in terms of signings to put us genuinely back up there. I just hope it's not like the Summer where we qualified for UCL and Woordward seemingly decided the manager was wrong about needing any other signings.

It's the best squad and best football we've played since Sir Alex. He needs to be backed. Every signing (even Ighalo), has contributed something.

Liam O

PARlance wrote: »

I'm probably one of those and I still stand by it, but it is and always has been mainly because Rashford is playing on the right and he's just not the same player there.

It seems like some people think that WL has to be Pogba's position now, he is very good there but I would go along with what Scholes was saying last night. Pogba and Bruno in midfield and find a holding player that can allow them to play together is ideal for me.

Pogba's good form hasn't just come from playing LW, he was driving the team from midfield in late 2020 as well. The only real problem with that is that Matic seems to be the only player in the squad trusted to play with him there.

Pogba has played with Bruno plenty of times with McTominay or Fred beside/behind him. Matic is obviously past it and the other 2 are miles better than him.

We obviously have different opinions on what "driving the team from midfield" is if you think that was what Pogba was doing a few months ago.

It drives me nuts that Pogba can put in literal years of sub-standard performances and have people come around the first game he actually plays somewhat close to the level he was bought to play at when McTominay and Fred get pilloried for any mistep despite being vastly superior since Ole came in. The difference between the first and 2nd leg of the PSG CL games is a poster for the difference between Pogba and the other 2.

Keane had him pegged when he said he didn't want to run, Scholes will have had more personal dealings with Pogba so I think is biased. Pogba is ultimately all talent without the work ethic. What has he improved on in his time at United? I would argue he was a better player in his first season when playing for a worse team because he was putting in real effort. As soon as it got tough for him he just gave up.

People are too quick to forget with regards him. Fred has been very good for the past 2 years any now is suddenly the one who needs to be shipped out because he's not sharp at the end of a condensed pandemic season but Pogba, who at least couldn't fly of for his mid season NBA fan pilgrimage (oh sorry, injury) is now the answer again. It's insane imo.

pjohnson

Actually aswell as inexpensive right back to boost the squad I wonder how the keeper situation will shake out. Henderson seems to be number 1, DDG cup keeper, Grant happy out 3rd/Coaching, Romero surely gone.

DDG is the odd man out in the rotation. If hes happy to be number 2 then great I'm delighted he stays but if he wants out I'd like it made clear early in the window.

Good backup keepers can be an utter arsè to find.

Mitch Connor

pjohnson wrote: »

Actually aswell as inexpensive right back to boost the squad I wonder how the keeper situation will shake out. Henderson seems to be number 1, DDG cup keeper, Grant happy out 3rd/Coaching, Romero surely gone.

DDG is the odd man out in the rotation. If hes happy to be number 2 then great I'm delighted he stays but if he wants out I'd like it made clear early in the window.

Good backup keepers can be an utter arsè to find.

Being linked with Heaton and Johnstone. So our scouting seems to be "were they in the youth set up?"

Liam O

Heaton would be great to have around as backup imo. Though I don't know if he's regressed a lot the last year or so.

wanderer100

Fantastic news if Cavani is staying !!! But surely that means we aren't going to buy a Kane or a Haaland this summer, which in my opinion is a good thing.

The team really needs investment elsewhere in CB, CDM and RW before we even talk about strikers.

Varane, Rice & Sancho would make us serious title contenders next season but only if we manage to hold on to Cavani & Pogba

Mitch Connor

wanderer100 wrote: »

Fantastic news if Cavani is staying !!! But surely that means we aren't going to buy a Kane or a Haaland this summer, which in my opinion is a good thing.

The team really needs investment elsewhere in CB, CDM and RW before we even talk about strikers.

Varane, Rice & Sancho would make us serious title contenders next season but only if we manage to hold on to Cavani & Pogba

100% agree, but i can't see the club bankrolling that investment. Near 200m for those three I reckon. We might get two of them, at best.

v3ttel

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Being linked with Heaton and Johnstone. So our scouting seems to be "were they in the youth set up?"

Johnstone would be an excellent back up keeper, in fairness. I am not so sure about Heaton.

I'm all for the whole United DNA and culture that Ole, Phelan, Carrick, Fletcher seem to be bringing back, but there I hope there is a limit.

It reminds me of talk about Josh King in January 20. He wouldn't have been a great signing IMHO. Not every player that comes through the academy is going to be good enough for United, and not every player former academy player who first team football in the Premier League is.

Having said that, pretty much every signing so far has been a good one, has contributed or added something extra to the squad, so it's hard to fault the recent recruitment in comparison to the previous managers.

Mitch Connor

v3ttel wrote: »

Johnstone would be an excellent back up keeper, in fairness. I am not so sure about Heaton.

I'm all for the whole United DNA and culture that Ole, Phelan, Carrick, Fletcher seem to be bringing back, but there I hope there is a limit.

It reminds me of talk about Josh King in January 20. He wouldn't have been a great signing IMHO. Not every player that comes through the academy is going to be good enough for United, and not every player former academy player who first team football in the Premier League is.

Having said that, pretty much every signing so far has been a good one, has contributed or added something extra to the squad, so it's hard to fault the recent recruitment in comparison to the previous managers.

Had United got King, it would have been for a similar overall deal to the one we had for Ighalo, and for similar reasons. I don't think he'd have done any worse overall.

Had they been looking at King as a longer term solution it would have been insane though

El Gato De Negocios

Fantastic if Edi renews. He is a superb player and a similar drive to Bruno. Players like that are absolutely invaluable, particularly Edi's experience and obvious understanding, great for the likes of Mason rather than looking at Martials sulky puss.

Mitch Connor

El Gato De Negocios wrote: »

Fantastic if Edi renews. He is a superb player and a similar drive to Bruno. Players like that are absolutely invaluable, particularly Edi's experience and obvious understanding, great for the likes of Mason rather than looking at Martials sulky puss.

Unless we sell and replace Martial, he will still be an important player next season - Cavani is good when he plays, but it doesn't seem like he can play 2/3 games in a row, and his fitness needs to be carefully managed.

unplayable

personally i would go all out for rice and if he was the only major signing i could live with that.

assuming, ddg, jones, matic and mata leave.

henderson/GK2
dalot/awb/shaw/telles/bailly/lindelof/maguire/tuanzebe
fred/mcsauce/rice/pogba/VDB/Bruno
Diallo/greenwood/cavani/martial/rashy/james

add in mengi,hannibal,elanga,pellistri, shoretire its not seriously lacking depth anywhere except right wing.

does signing a sancho or another right winger mean less mins for Greenwood next season? i dont see Ole starting him through the middle too often.

Whatsisname

:pac:

https://twitter.com/utdkomal/status/1388042586141741057?s=20

Reminded me of Phil Jones telling the UEFA official he was a ****er and had a ****ers job after being told to get tested after the EL final in 2017.

All_in_Flynn

I seen Woodwards opening salvo in the fans forum today. Has anyone seen anything else come out of it? I wonder how it went!?

Rossi IRL

I don't think we need a right winger as bad as other positions. If the club see Greenwood as a right winger then I can't see us buying, especially after also spending a fair amount on Diallo who is a right winger.

Think a Top CB and a center mid like Rice/Bissouma should be the top areas

Think we also need to plan for life after Cavani. If he leaves this window then we need a ST this window, same goes for if he leaves next season, will need to buy then.

Martial I have written off as a ST option. At the moment I see him as backup for Rashford at lw.

Mars Bar

Whatsisname wrote: »

:pac:

https://twitter.com/utdkomal/status/1388042586141741057?s=20

Reminded me of Phil Jones telling the UEFA official he was a ****er and had a ****ers job after being told to get tested after the EL final in 2017.

Why pick the guy who has been fasting all day? No wonder he is pissed. Probably just wants to eat a pizza or something at that moment.

Weepsie

If Cavani stays on, and Brentford stay down, would a move for Ivan Toney be worth a go? It's a huge step up, and it took a while for his career to get going (now 25), but same sort of thing with Vardy. Playing in a rotation with Cavani could be great, and coaches and scouts seem to love him, except his newcastle coaches who are a proper basket case generally.

He ticks that english box too and he's improved year on year.

fergiesfolly

If Pogba plays down his contract, I'd assume the Glazers see that as 50-60 million lost and will plan their spending around that over the next couple of seasons.
Kane is gettable this season but with Cavani staying, that means we won't sign a striker this season and they maybe hopeful of signing Haaland next summer for his release fee.
Does Bailly signing a new contract rule out a CB? I think so.
I gave up on Sancho after we signed Diallo.
So, I see a bid for Rice ( Lingard+ cash) and little else at the minute.
Mata, one of Henderson or DeGea, Jones, Pareira, Matic and Dallot leaving.

Covid-19 getting the blame for the cutbacks.
And of course the Glazers taking their usual thick sliced of the pie.

paulbok

With Cavani staying and Bailly signing a new contract, I'd say there is now a shift in focus to the midfield this summer.
Definitely a DM coming and depending on the Pogba situation (if he doesn't sign a new contract, he needs to be sold to get something back on him) another cm.
Perhaps if it's only a DM needed, back up for RB and as the back up GK situation has to be sorted, but that would usually involve small money.
Even if available for far less than last year, I can't see a move for Sancho after siging the 2 young lads

fergiesfolly

Pogba holds all the cards here though.
If United ask too much, other clubs can wait till next season to get him free.
Unless he puts in a transfer request, United will have to pay all or some of his final years contract. A fair chunk of change.
So either sell him for little money and replace him for a lot of money. Or keep him for a season and get nothing.
United are snookered either way.

fatherted1969

Jesus I really loved Kerr digging into Delaney last night, watched it twice today. Firmly put in his box:)

Lithium93_

fatherted1969 wrote: »

Jesus I really loved Kerr digging into Delaney last night, watched it twice today. Firmly put in his box:)

A failed footballer. That and he's a bad dime store rip off of Roy Keane, nothing more, nothing less.

~Rebel~

Lithium93_ wrote: »

A failed footballer. That and he's a bad dime store rip off of Roy Keane, nothing more, nothing less.

I don't always (or even often) agree with him by any means, but how do you get to him being a failed footballer?

Don't think anyone with over 130 premier league appearances and ~300 championship matches can really be described as a failed footballer - especially from an Irish perspective.

Dave0301

United hoping to have fans at the Fulham match in a couple of weeks.

Waiting for an announcement on the 10th of May but would be great to see some fans back.

S.M.B.

fergiesfolly wrote: »

Pogba holds all the cards here though.
If United ask too much, other clubs can wait till next season to get him free.
Unless he puts in a transfer request, United will have to pay all or some of his final years contract. A fair chunk of change.
So either sell him for little money and replace him for a lot of money. Or keep him for a season and get nothing.
United are snookered either way.

Or offer him another contract?

I'm more than happy for him to stay if he's not expecting a big increase in base salary.

PARlance

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Being linked with Heaton and Johnstone. So our scouting seems to be "were they in the youth set up?"

I'd say it's more of a case of journalists etc looking at previous academy players and thinking... sounds credible, let's run with that story.