Manchester United Teamtalk/Transfer/Gossip 23/24 - [New Thread Available]

GSPfan

Kerrydude1981 wrote: »

I actually dont know what to say about that performance tonight.

Just head off to bed and when you wake tomorrow just put it down to being a bad dream. It’s an utterly forgettable game for both teams really.

Liam O

FourFourRED wrote: »

https://twitter.com/manunitedyouth/status/1392951406630420481?s=12

DDG for the remaining games please and thanks Ole

He lets in 1 in every 3 shots he faces.

The Big Easy

redarmy wrote: »

Ha! I still stand by it, just not tonight, I thought the last corner had been turned

Adamocovic

Also Henderson vs De Gea debate really taking away from the bigger issues from the game.

Looked lost without Maguire there and we couldn’t play the ball out at all.

Think Maguires confidence on the ball is overlooked at times. Also Fred again showed why it’s right to be looking at more deep CM options.

Rashford can’t be pushed out right anymore to accommodate Pogba. Just can’t work.

Not the end of the world but frustrating game to watch.

Drumpot

Whatsisname wrote: »

Whats worse is Henderson has said his idol growing up was Joe Hart :pac:

Well that explains it... :pac:

Marty Bird

Monserrat Rotten Parrot wrote: »

he may not be worth 80 million (not his fault for the fee paid) but tonight shows how much Maguire is missed. Not perfect but that side a whole lot better with him than without

I know the feeling we have been without VVD for most of the season, tis amazing the effects it can have on the team.

Iago

Liam O wrote: »

United fans have become ridiculously reactive, in line with the board I suppose though.

Suddenly sign Pogba to a 5 year deal, not give a new keeper a chance over more than 15 games despite the stats showing he is playing miles better than the previous incumbent, Rashford should be dropped rather than you know, playing him in his best position, Ole is in or out on a game by game basis, is there anything I've forgotten?

I haven’t said any of those things, but Henderson is an average keeper. 3 out of 4 goals he could have done more for tonight.

He may well develop into an exceptional keeper, but right now he’s average. He’s not better than de gea that’s for sure and shouldn’t be 1st choice yet. The only reason he is, is because United/soljskaer have punted on him being good enough to be no1 in the next 2/3 seasons and they’re terrified he’ll agitate to leave in the summer if they don’t play him now.

Maybe they’ll be proven right, only time will tell. In the meantime it will cause us to lose points/games ‘shrugs’ maybe it’s a price worth paying

sReq | uTeK

Liam O wrote: »

United fans have become ridiculously reactive, in line with the board I suppose though.

Suddenly sign Pogba to a 5 year deal, not give a new keeper a chance over more than 15 games despite the stats showing he is playing miles better than the previous incumbent, Rashford should be dropped rather than you know, playing him in his best position, Ole is in or out on a game by game basis, is there anything I've forgotten?

I don't agree with Rashford being dropped when he went left we were a threat again. He just shouldn't be played out right. I would have rashford ahead of Pogba as pogba drifts in to much which exposes Shaw and means Shaw doesn't get as many overlaps.

nullzero

Marty Bird wrote: »

I know the feeling we have been without VVD for most of the season, tis amazing the effects it can have on the team.

Yeah, you didn't concede 7 goals in one game again once you got him out of the picture.

The Big Easy

Roy's going after Fred anyway: "How anyone thinks Fred is going to get United back to winning titles is beyond me"

Liam O

Iago wrote: »

I haven’t said any of those things, but Henderson is an average keeper. 3 out of 4 goals he could have done more for tonight.

He may well develop into an exceptional keeper, but right now he’s average. He’s not better than de gea that’s for sure and shouldn’t be 1st choice yet. The only reason he is, is because United/soljskaer have punted on him being good enough to be no1 in the next 2/3 seasons and they’re terrified he’ll agitate to leave in the summer if they don’t play him now.

Maybe they’ll be proven right, only time will tell. In the meantime it will cause us to lose points/games ‘shrugs’ maybe it’s a price worth paying

By what metric is De Gea better than him?

Dozyart

Liam O wrote: »

He lets in 1 in every 3 shots he faces.

And has a PL clean sheet 1 in every 3 games he plays

Headshot

I fully support giving Henderson a shot as you have to see is he up for it but he's just not good at this level

I rather De Gea back even with he's issues

Adamocovic

Liam O wrote: »

He lets in 1 in every 3 shots he faces.

I like De Gea but people are quick to forget that the reason Henderson was getting called to play so much is because of how inconsistent De Gea had been playing.

Even this season, we have lost 6 PL games. 5 of them with De Gea in goal.
Just looking at the Prem Stats:

Save %:
Henderson 82.1%
De Gea 66.3%

Clean Sheet %:
Henderson 40%
De Gea 36%

Goals Against per 90 minutes:
Henderson 0.67
De Gea 1.27

Henderson has also claimed high balls 4 times more than De Gea, caught the ball twice as much and has less punches.

He certainly didn't paint himself in glory today but it's not like it was a spur of the moment decision to be fair.

wanderer100

Defensive situation is extremely concerning If we don't have Maguire back before the Europa league final, I'm not confident in our defensive and bloody McFred to do the job on the night

Bailly has been fcukin terrible these past 2 games. I hope Ole gives Tuanzebe the remaining 2 league games alongside Lindelof and the coaching staff works hard on fixing us up defensively before the final.

Also Henderson isn't doing it for me. I'll be fuming if we get rid of De Gea this summer or shun him out to the bench next season. Give David the remaining league games as well since he's surely playing the final.

xtal191

pjohnson wrote: »

Some of those lads need a reality check.

The only thing these league games are is auditions to nail down a place in the EL team.

Some seem to be trying to play themselves out of that team.

I think the main problem is some of those players can play as bad as they like and they'll still be picked for the final

nullzero

wanderer100 wrote: »

Defensive situation is extremely concerning If we don't have Maguire back before the Europa league final, I'm not confident in our defensive and bloody McFred to do the job on the night

Bailly has been fcukin terrible these past 2 games. I hope Ole gives Tuanzebe the remaining 2 league games alongside Lindelof and the coaching staff works hard on fixing us up defensively before the final.

Also Henderson isn't doing it for me. I'll be fuming if we get rid of De Gea this summer or shun him out to the bench next season. Give David the remaining league games as well since he's surely playing the final.

I tend to feel Ole doesn't have the balls to punish Henderson.

He wasn't alone in being responsible for tonight, but he could have kept at least one of those goals out if not two.

Ultimately the fear factor that kept United players pushing for the best the could give under Ferguson has been absent since he retired and it isn't coming back under nice guy Ole.

The Big Easy

Headshot wrote: »

I fully support giving Henderson a shot as you have to see is he up for it but he's just not good at this level

I rather De Gea back even with he's issues

We can't play high-line front-foot football with De Gea though, he's absolutely glued to his line these days.

The way Ole wants to play, he needs a keeper with more of Henderson's skill-set than De Gea's imo

Tonight obviously gives ammunition to those who want De Gea back in but it's knee-jerk imo, unusual for in here I know

Now Henderson may not be the guy but as Roy just said De Gea's not the answer either

Dozyart

wanderer100 wrote: »

Also Henderson isn't doing it for me. I'll be fuming if we get rid of De Gea this summer or shun him out to the bench next season. Give David the remaining league games as well since he's surely playing the final.

I think De Gea has told Ole he's wants to move this summer and that triggered the Henderson experiment with no drama of the No.1 being dropped!

Iago

Liam O wrote: »

By what metric is De Gea better than him?

By the metric of the eye.

Stats mean nothing because you’ll never have 2 keepers in the same positions in the same games..you know this though.

I feel De gea is a better shot stopper. I think in general he makes less mistakes and he has better hands than Henderson. I think his positioning is better generally though I admit that Henderson seems better coming off his line (though he made a bad error tonight doing that)

Henderson seems to communicate more with the defense, but how effective that is remains to be seen over time.

I think de gea has possibly regressed in recent years, some of that may be ability some may well be the mental strain of being away from his wife and now his child. Maybe he’s indicated he wants a move back to Spain and so United had to act anyway.

Right now, in my opinion, de gea is a better all round keeper than Henderson and will win us more points/games all other factors being equal.

Father Hernandez

The Big Easy wrote: »

Now Henderson may not be the guy but as Roy just said De Gea's not the answer either

I’d agree with this.

United stuck between a rock and a hard place with DDG and Henderson.

Not convinced by either but both on huge wages and both not elite IMO.

Ideal scenario pick neither and go for Oblak or someone similar.

PhlegmyMoses

**** to lose that but defence was ropey as ****. Same time, we were dangerous and tried to play football, which is nice to see. Pool were worth that

Liam O

Dozyart wrote: »

And has a PL clean sheet 1 in every 3 games he plays

No doubt he's great in the big games where United sit back and there's no balls over the top for him to make a mess of. Fewer shots for him to mess up. Resulting in the majority of those clean sheets.

He's been awful since the world cup. Henderson had a great season for Sheffield United last season and has a lot of potential in the position. I don't think he's world class or going to reach that level as I've said recently but he's no doubt miles better than De Gea.

PhlegmyMoses

Henderson wasn't good tonight but he's new to all of this. He may be it, he may not. Dont think DDG is going anywhere this summer so we will have two options next year and hopefully one of them nails it down

FourFourRED

John O’Shea does better for that Salah goal tonight

The Big Easy

Iago wrote: »

By the metric of the eye.

Stats mean nothing because you’ll never have 2 keepers in the same positions in the same games..you know this though.

I feel De gea is a better shot stopper. I think in general he makes less mistakes and he has better hands than Henderson. I think his positioning is better generally though I admit that Henderson seems better coming off his line (though he made a bad error tonight doing that)

Henderson seems to communicate more with the defense, but how effective that is remains to be seen over time.

I think de gea has possibly regressed in recent years, some of that may be ability some may well be the mental strain of being away from his wife and now his child. Maybe he’s indicated he wants a move back to Spain and so United had to act anyway.

Right now, in my opinion, de gea is a better all round keeper than Henderson and will win us more points/games all other factors being equal.

De Gea is unquestionably a better shot-stopper, but that's no longer the be all and end all of keeping.

If you want to press high and play a high defensive line you need a keeper who's always ready to come out and mop things up, he also needs to be able to distribute the ball quickly and efficiently.

Iago

The Big Easy wrote: »

De Gea is unquestionably a better shot-stopper, but that's no longer the be all and end all of keeping.

If you want to press high and play a high defensive line you need a keeper who's already ready to come out and mop things up, he also needs to be able to distribute the ball quickly and efficiently.

Yeah, no doubt. I don’t think de gea is the end answer...I simply think at this moment he’s a better option than Henderson.

I also think us playing a high defensive line is a recipe for disaster with the people who have back there but yeah if we’re talking ideal and bottomless pits of money you probably add 7 players to the first 11

Adamocovic

Iago wrote: »

By the metric of the eye.

Stats mean nothing because you’ll never have 2 keepers in the same positions in the same games..you know this though.

I feel De gea is a better shot stopper. I think in general he makes less mistakes and he has better hands than Henderson. I think his positioning is better generally though I admit that Henderson seems better coming off his line (though he made a bad error tonight doing that)

Henderson seems to communicate more with the defense, but how effective that is remains to be seen over time.

I think de gea has possibly regressed in recent years, some of that may be ability some may well be the mental strain of being away from his wife and now his child. Maybe he’s indicated he wants a move back to Spain and so United had to act anyway.

Right now, in my opinion, de gea is a better all round keeper than Henderson and will win us more points/games all other factors being equal.

I know you're basing it off your eye rather than stats.

But not sure how you are so confident that De Gea would win us more points/games than Henderson right now.

In the league we have won 75% of our games with Henderson this season compared to 48% with De Gea.

Take stats out of it all you want there's nothing screaming at me that De Gea is the best keeper in the squad right now.

The Big Easy

In better news two of our future front three scored two apiece away to Leipzig

beno619

Adamocovic wrote: »

We give the ball away and Salah of all people scores a 1v1 and all the Henderson comments come pouring out.

Henderson stops Mane 1v1 not one comment.

It’s funny position being goalkeeper. He’s had a poor game for his standards but we always slump it on keepers.

I remember how unbearable this place was for De Geas first couple of seasons. The man was slated every game.

Small minded to rule out Henderson for one poor game. He’s shown more than enough his ability.

I don't disagree with your points but its disingenuous to suggest this is off the back of one game/performance.

Lots of people had doubts coming into the season and I thought he started quite poorly, most of those people would say he's done well enough of late and they wouldn't argue with his selection ahead of De Gea. De Gea still has plenty of critics so like it or not Henderson has work to do to convince some of the fanbase.

Iago

That’s exactly the point though, without replicating the exact scenarios in every game but reversing the keepers we’ve no idea if the stats would change.

I will say that I can’t remember a single game where afterwards I thought ‘Henderson won that for us’ or even that he was instrumental in it.

Keepers get judged harshly and are remembered for bad more than good though and it’s equally possible had de gea played those exact games I wouldn’t think he won it or was instrumental either...we just don’t know for sure

Liam O

Iago wrote: »

By the metric of the eye.

Stats mean nothing because you’ll never have 2 keepers in the same positions in the same games..you know this though.

I feel De gea is a better shot stopper. I think in general he makes less mistakes and he has better hands than Henderson. I think his positioning is better generally though I admit that Henderson seems better coming off his line (though he made a bad error tonight doing that)

Henderson seems to communicate more with the defense, but how effective that is remains to be seen over time.

I think de gea has possibly regressed in recent years, some of that may be ability some may well be the mental strain of being away from his wife and now his child. Maybe he’s indicated he wants a move back to Spain and so United had to act anyway.

Right now, in my opinion, de gea is a better all round keeper than Henderson and will win us more points/games all other factors being equal.

How someone can say that De Gea makes fewer mistakes after the last 2-3 seasons is honestly beyond me. He's been a liability. The eye really is a great equaliser and why is been eliminated by most sports in terms of recruitment and decent analysis.

De Gea's only trick is shot stopping and he's been crap at that for ages. He's a below average premier League keeper, never mind top level player.

Adamocovic

beno619 wrote: »

I don't disagree with your points but its disingenuous to suggest this is off the back of one game/performance.

Lots of people had doubts coming into the season and I thought he started quite poorly, most of those people would say he's done well enough of late and they wouldn't argue with his selection ahead of De Gea. De Gea still has plenty of critics so like it or not Henderson has work to do to convince some of the fanbase.

Fair enough.

I do hope he gets the chance to play in front of the crowd at Old Trafford as United number 1.

I know all the talk is about Cavani getting the experience but feel for Henderson. United fan who's worked through the ranks with the goal of starting as our number 1 and hasn't gotten the chance to experience it yet to a packed crowd at Old Trafford.

Will be some scenes when the fans are finally allowed back in!

jk23

Need at least one experienced defender, 2 midfielders and striker in the summer. Probably a goalkeeper too but maybe De Gea can improve enough.

The_Kew_Tour

I'm not that disappointed in sense that it was us that gifted them the goals.

Not like they tore us apart. We basically gave them 3 goals.

However the worry would be to think 1 or 2 players will make us a contender next year. After tonight it should be clear we are 5 players short of winning a league

adox

Ole putting a brave face on it. PR of the highest standards there.

Liam O

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

I'm not that disappointed in sense that it was us that gifted them the goals.

Not like they tore us apart. We basically gave them 3 goals.

However the worry would be to think 1 or 2 players will make us a contender next year. After tonight it should be clear we are 5 players short of winning a league

There's not one position United are better than Chelsea or City in bar maybe left back and even then much of a muchness between Shaw and Chilwell.

Dozyart

Liam O wrote: »

He's a below average premier League keeper, never mind top level player.

Imagine thinking this...next you'll be claiming that Lingard is top player

PhlegmyMoses

Has Souness had a brain injury or something?

jk23

After the match did anyone see Mane refusing to give Klopp a high five? Very strange after winning...

Headshot

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

Has Souness had a brain injury or something?

My god I ****ing cannot stand the man

He makes my blood ****ing boil as he doesnt have a ****ing clue of what he's talking about

Liam O

Dozyart wrote: »

Imagine thinking this...next you'll be claiming that Lingard is top player

He's been worse than the majority of keepers in the league the last 2 seasons by all metrics. It's honestly been sad to see.

adox

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

Has Souness had a brain injury or something?

He seems to think our owners install windows.

False Prophet

jk23 wrote: »

After the match did anyone see Mane refusing to give Klopp a high five? Very strange after winning...

He was clearly unhappy being dropped to play v utd.
Yes it looks bad on TV but personally I'd dont have an issue with a player that has that inner desire to start every game.
As keane said why do managers today feel the need to go out and shake all the players hands on the pitch.

The_Kew_Tour

Liam O wrote: »

There's not one position United are better than Chelsea or City in bar maybe left back and even then much of a muchness between Shaw and Chilwell.

I cant really argue against that. Few positions are close but ya you have point.

Tonight has at least made me realise not to expect a huge amount next year and Top 4 will be as good as it gets.

jk23

False Prophet wrote: »

He was clearly unhappy being dropped to play v utd.
Yes it looks bad on TV but personally I'd dont have an issue with a player that has that inner desire to start every game.
As keane said why do managers today feel the need to go out and shake all the players hands on the pitch.

Mane has been poor this year but I would gladly take him at utd. Should have taken the chance when he was at Southampton, I think United were in for him at one point....

nullzero

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

Has Souness had a brain injury or something?

Beer can related?

beno619

The Big Easy wrote: »

De Gea is unquestionably a better shot-stopper, but that's no longer the be all and end all of keeping.

If you want to press high and play a high defensive line you need a keeper who's always ready to come out and mop things up, he also needs to be able to distribute the ball quickly and efficiently.

I've seen no evidence we want to play a high press and i'd be worried about a high line with Maguire and Lindekof.

beno619

jk23 wrote: »

Mane has been poor this year but I would gladly take him at utd. Should have taken the chance when he was at Southampton, I think United were in for him at one point....

Yep, it gave Liverpool fans a laugh at the time, its a shame that one didn't go through.

Whatsisname

Shocking.

https://twitter.com/samuelluckhurst/status/1392936019327082507?s=20