Manchester United Teamtalk/Transfer/Gossip 23/24 - [New Thread Available]

fatherted1969

Liam O wrote: »

This is it. Rashford gets blamed for Pogba's need to be shoehorned into the team. He's nowhere near the best 11 and unless his attitude completely does a 180 which hasn't happened in the last 4 years then it's going to remain as such.

Play him in the 2, doesn't run or track back.

Play him in a midfield 3, doesn't run or track back.

Play him on the left, doesn't run or track back.

I mean when is everyone going to wake up?! United spent 100m on a complete did who's game hasn't evolved and McTominay has been better than him since coming into the team.

Everything has been tried and he's still the glaring issue.

I've no real time for Pogba and I've been consistent on here about him but there's no getting away from the fact that he has been good in the last 12 months. To claim McT is better is laughable, at this moment in time McT can't even nail down a consistent starting position

xtal191

I think Henderson really could've done with staying on loan with Sheffield United this season or going to another Premier League side

The_Kew_Tour

Mitch Connor wrote: »

I think he should have been a little further to his right, and maybe a little further forward - but for the life of me I can't understand why there is no movement/reaction from him as soon as Salah takes the touch into the box. The moment he touches it Henderson should have been on the move and closing him.

I just don't get it - I can't work out any scenario that Henderson's lack of action is the correct thing to do. The positioning was bad, but (and this isn't an excuse) maybe he lost his bearings a little and thought he was that little be further right. So while I can put the position down to a mistake, the lack of action is just baffling.

Ya I agree with pretty much all that.

It just felt like such a soft goal. Fair play Salah was good break but that's as easy goal as he will score.

It felt inevitable too once Salah went on the run for some reason. Had no confidence in Henderdon saving it

The_Kew_Tour

xtal191 wrote: »

I think Henderson really could've done with staying on loan with Sheffield United this season or going to another Premier League side

The thing is in a situation like that for Sheffield he looked commanding.

Maybe it's the pressure of being United No 1.

I don't want to pick on a player for 1 or 2 mistakes or bad game but that was dreadful

ngunners

Mitch Connor wrote: »

I think he should have been a little further to his right, and maybe a little further forward - but for the life of me I can't understand why there is no movement/reaction from him as soon as Salah takes the touch into the box. The moment he touches it Henderson should have been on the move and closing him.

I just don't get it - I can't work out any scenario that Henderson's lack of action is the correct thing to do. The positioning was bad, but (and this isn't an excuse) maybe he lost his bearings a little and thought he was that little be further right. So while I can put the position down to a mistake, the lack of action is just baffling.

I think he froze. He made a mistake in a Europa match where he left his line too early with the striker bearing down on goal and possibly wanted to avoid making the same error.

I hope Henderson makes it at United but I think he still has a long way to go.

The_Kew_Tour

ngunners wrote: »

I think he froze.

I think that's the best description of it.

In fairness game was over anyway but in a situation like that you need a strong keeper. He looked like League 2 keeper at times and I know he ain't that bad of course but just felt he was nervous or something

Mitch Connor

ngunners wrote: »

I think he froze. He made a mistake in a Europa match where he left his line too early with the striker bearing down on goal and possibly wanted to avoid making the same error.

I hope Henderson makes it at United but I think he still has a long way to go.

Salah also dinked him previously, so that may also have been on his mind to avoid that and then got caught doing nothing rather than the 'wrong' thing.

DM_7

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

That 4th goal last night gets worse and worse for Henderson everytime I see it.

The 3rd was a shocker too.

I would have scored that 4th goal myself

Knocked the corner down into the box for the first and was beaten at near post for the 2nd.

Very tough night for him.

I think he is on the short side also, wouldn't have the reach of De Gea or even Romero.

He looks on edge too much, I suppose anyone could with the state of the performance on front of him yesterday. Worrying that the performance of the team was very like Roma away.

Liam O

fatherted1969 wrote: »

I've no real time for Pogba and I've been consistent on here about him but there's no getting away from the fact that he has been good in the last 12 months. To claim McT is better is laughable, at this moment in time McT can't even nail down a consistent starting position

What are his strengths and what has he shown in the last 12 months that makes him good? He doesn't look for the ball, releases it as soon as he gets it most of the time. Often points at where he wants the ball played when a defender has it rather than take it himself. Is not proficient in either attack or defense and is a liability on the latter.

He is a moment's player. Incredibly talented so can leave someone reeling with a quick movement of the feet so when you're not focussing on his sub standard effort and passing you'll notice the odd shuffle and the odd through ball. He has put in a bit more effort the last while I'll agree but it is a contract year and he's been relieved of any responsibility to work for the team, for the best as he'd probably concede more penalties.

McT is first choice in his position. Just because he doesn't play every game doesn't change that, nobody does bar AWB, Bruno and Maguire. The position Pogba was bought to play. The most expensive transfer of all time. Replaced by a player plucked seemingly at random at the time by José from the U23s. Damning.

StringerBell

Monserrat Rotten Parrot wrote: »

Pogba is not a DM, where have you plucked that from?

Neither is Mctominay, where have you plucked that from?

adox

Neither is McTominay......or Fred.

Matic is the only one at the club.

PARlance

Mitch Connor wrote: »

I think he should have been a little further to his right, and maybe a little further forward - but for the life of me I can't understand why there is no movement/reaction from him as soon as Salah takes the touch into the box. The moment he touches it Henderson should have been on the move and closing him.

I just don't get it - I can't work out any scenario that Henderson's lack of action is the correct thing to do. The positioning was bad, but (and this isn't an excuse) maybe he lost his bearings a little and thought he was that little be further right. So while I can put the position down to a mistake, the lack of action is just baffling.

There was a through ball about 10 mins before that where he was rooted to his line as well. Very unlike him, he either lost a bit of bottle/was spooked or was told not to be rushing out imo.

Adamocovic

Just reading Fergie’s comments on Ole.

“I think Ole was always very communicative,” Sir Alex told the BBC. “Even when he was on the bench - and he spent a lot of time on the bench!
“He would take notes of training sessions and he had a will and way forward that he wanted to be a manager.

Seems so simple but also find it odd the idea of a player taking notes of training sessions. No doubt some do but I can’t imagine they are all doing that.

Anyway. Need to focus on finishing this season strong. Would be a dream come true for Ole to lift a trophy as manager regardless of what happens in the future.

Adamocovic

I know I’ve banged on that game showing Maguire’s worth more but I’ll do it again.

Yes he comes in for criticisms and partially due to the price tag. But he is very calm on the ball and is a vocal presence.

Could see us struggling to play from the back and you’d have to wonder if he was there would it be a bit more composed.

Henderson, Shaw and Fred all had stinkers. Most of the team did. Hard to know but you’d think losing Maguire had an effect.

The back fell apart yesterday and unfortunately didn’t look like there was anyone to take control of them.

Bruno can fire up the attackers around him but I really think we need Maguire to keep the back in check. Too many mistakes yesterday and rather than composing ourselves we seemed to fall apart more.

Just highlights our squad depth and need for more leaders. If we lost Bruno and Maguire for a substantial length of time we’d be falling off a cliff I feel.

dave_o_brien

Adamocovic wrote: »

I know I’ve banged on that game showing Maguire’s worth more but I’ll do it again.

Yes he comes in for criticisms and partially due to the price tag. But he is very calm on the ball and is a vocal presence.

Could see us struggling to play from the back and you’d have to wonder if he was there would it be a bit more composed.

Henderson, Shaw and Fred all had stinkers. Most of the team did. Hard to know but you’d think losing Maguire had an effect.

The back fell apart yesterday and unfortunately didn’t look like there was anyone to take control of them.

Bruno can fire up the attackers around him but I really think we need Maguire to keep the back in check. Too many mistakes yesterday and rather than composing ourselves we seemed to fall apart more.

Just highlights our squad depth and need for more leaders. If we lost Bruno and Maguire for a substantial length of time we’d be falling off a cliff I feel.

One related point - remove Maguire and see the effect it had on our defence. We all can imagine losing Bruno and the effect it would have on our attack. Imagine we had a player of similar value in the middle of the park and how much better we might get.

TLDR: Buy Ndidi/ Neves/ Rice.

Cookiemunster

I see Lingard had won PL player and goal of the month for April. Good timing from a Utd selling him POV.

EltonJohn69

Cookiemunster wrote: »

I see Lingard had won PL player and goal of the month for April. Good timing from a Utd selling him POV.

£100,000,000 and Rice and 25% cut of all food and beverages sales at the London Stadium for the next 100 years.

Quandary

A proper defensive midfielder is by far the most important addition that needs to be made this summer imo.

Someone like Ndidi or even Rice would come in and add so much to the team. As it stands the team is very unbalanced in midfield. Scott and Fred are not good enough to play the role. They are fine when playing against weaker teams or teams that don't press too aggressively, but against a quality high workrate midfield they get exposed fast.

I think signing a high quality DM could have a similar effect on the defence to that which Bruno made to the attack

Mitch Connor

Quandary wrote: »

A proper defensive midfielder is by far the most important addition that needs to be made this summer imo.

Someone like Ndidi or even Rice would come in and add so much to the team. As it stands the team is very unbalanced in midfield. Scott and Fred are not good enough to play the role. They are fine when playing against weaker teams or teams that don't press too aggressively, but against a quality high workrate midfield they get exposed fast.

I think signing a high quality DM could have a similar effect on the defence to that which Bruno made to the attack

There would still be the question over the player next to the top quality DM that I hope we get.

If we get Rice, for example, while it would free Fred or McT up to press more and harry the opposition, does either of those midfield pairings get the ball forward well enough - it is an aspect of Rice's game that is improving, is it good enough? If we play Pogba, and I really don't want to get into an argument, is Pogba's better technique, vision, passing over McT and Fred going to be too offset by the lack of top level defensive action from him, in a two?

Obviously that is assuming we continue to play 4231.

One issue we have, with McT and Fred in midfield is we are trying to get the ball out from defence and in to Bruno, essentially. Neither McT or Fred are adept at that. I wonder if Ndidi, for example, has enough of that quality to help is getting the ball forward, regardless of his defensive skills.

It is one reason I really wanted us to get Thiago last summer - my assumption was him at the base helping to cycle possession and McT (for example) helping with the defensive/physical side.

Weepsie

dave_o_brien wrote: »

One related point - remove Maguire and see the effect it had on our defence. We all can imagine losing Bruno and the effect it would have on our attack. Imagine we had a player of similar value in the middle of the park and how much better we might get.

TLDR: Buy Ndidi/ Neves/ Rice.

Our defence has looked pretty ropey at times with Maguire in it too, at least in terms of actual defending.

2 goals were from set pieces and another was from pressing a high line and a really bad turnover in midfield that caught us out. Henderson was not convincing for any goal either.

We were pretty crap defensively against Roma too in both matches and Leicester in the cup. A loss like this has been coming Maguire or not.

Shaw was overrun as Pogba didn't help, and rashford wasnt much help for AwB either.

Fred wasn't good, and is coming in for plenty criticism, but McTominay was brutal and really ought to have been sent off.

Badly need a player like Fabinho. He's a massive difference maker for Liverpool and they'd be comfortably top 4 imo if they'd just stuck with him on midfield and played the young lads in the back.

He does everything that we require 2 players to do and does it better in pretty much everyway. Ndidi would be my preferred option, but we still need a few more pieces.

Mitch Connor

Being linked with a 40million move for Varane.

Mirror saying we think it can be done at that with him having 12 months on the contract come the summer.

Clearly a player United have been hot on for years. Is he the player everyone thought he would become?

Also, while i think signing a top cb would help us in open play, United's issues at set plays is structural, no CB will fix that. It is down to Ole/Coaches to come up with better structures. If the ball goes past the first man we are in a world of trouble, all the time.

billyhead

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Being linked with a 40million move for Varane.

Mirror saying we think it can be done at that with him having 12 months on the contract come the summer.

Clearly a player United have been hot on for years. Is he the player everyone thought he would become?

Also, while i think signing a top cb would help us in open play, United's issues at set plays is structural, no CB will fix that. It is down to Ole/Coaches to come up with better structures. If the ball goes past the first man we are in a world of trouble, all the time.

I think Varane is overrated. A DM is a bigger priority than defence.

Lord TSC

Varane for 40m would be great business IF it’s done in the same summer as a CDM and RW. We don’t have to wait for the CDM to be finalised before trying to improve the defence, and Varane has a CV our defenders couldn’t imagine...

xtal191

I'd be very surprised if Madrid sold Varane especially if Ramos ends up leaving on a free, sounds more like the yearly Madrid player using UTD to get a new contract

Weepsie

billyhead wrote: »

I think Varane is overrated. A DM is a bigger priority than defence.

Me too. He's been fairly poor for a couple of seasons now. Being out performed by Ramos, 7 years his senior. Still sort of living off his younger rep imo.

He also has Casimero in front of him doing lots of dirty work

He wouldn't be any sort of significant improvement on either Lindeloff or Maguire, to me and if there is a centre back to be bought they need to be significantly better, or a competent back up who is going to be fit.

Ashbourne hoop

Weepsie wrote: »

Me too. He's been fairly poor for a couple of seasons now. Being out performed by Ramos, 7 years his senior. Still sort of living off his younger rep imo.

He also has Casimero in front of him doing lots of dirty work

He wouldn't be any sort of significant improvement on either Lindeloff or Maguire, to me and if there is a centre back to be bought they need to be significantly better, or a competent back up who is going to be fit.

Varane would be a massive upgrade on Lindelof.

Ashbourne hoop

fatherted1969 wrote: »

I rest my case on Fred, honestly its the most crucial piece of business this summer in getting in a proper CDM. It absolutely changes this team. He doesn't have a single facet of his game that keeps him in a team challenging for a title, not 1

He's brutal Genuinely one of the worst players I've seen in a Utd jersey. Can't pass or shoot and his tackling is questionable too. I can't never understand why people on here rate him.

StringerBell

Probably cause of his good performances

ngunners

Ashbourne hoop wrote: »

He's brutal Genuinely one of the worst players I've seen in a Utd jersey. Can't pass or shoot and his tackling is questionable too. I can't never understand why people on here rate him.

He started to grow on me thanks to some excellent, agressive performances but he seems to have taken a step backwards lately. It’s very frustrating seeming him do that weird scissors-tackle thing he does where he ends up flat on his arse and the opposition player just saunters around him.

Weepsie

I'd swap Fred,McT and Pogba for Ndidi and Tiellemans tomorrow if possible.

Weepsie

Ashbourne hoop wrote: »

He's brutal Genuinely one of the worst players I've seen in a Utd jersey. Can't pass or shoot and his tackling is questionable too. I can't never understand why people on here rate him.

Yet he has been consistently one of the most accurate passers in the league for 2 years now?

Only Lindeloff and Maguire make more passes than him and with better accuracy. Only Pogba makes more successful long passes with him.

Tackles. He makes more successful tackles let game than anyone else other than AwB. He's also among our top 3 for interceptions.

He's not really there to shoot. He looks clumsy, and he doesn't do much flashy,but people are still hanging on to this idea that he should be some magician of a Brazilian there to do all sort of trickery when he's in fact super effective at the job he's tasked with doing.

Where he is ****e, is tricky/fast players dribbling past him. Only Bruno fernandes is worse in the team for that

Delighted for Leicester!

Backstreet Moyes

Ndidi and Fofana would be dream signings

Lord TSC

Nuts102 wrote: »

Ndidi and Fofana would be dream signings

I’d rather sign their scouting department, who keep getting these great players for absolute bargains.

unplayable

Lord TSC wrote: »

I’d rather sign their scouring department, who keep getting these grey players for absolute bargains.

exactly like the talk is they have signed soumare on the quiet from lille. a serious player that we will be talking about in 12 months time. when was the last time we signed a young player from a french club? bar martial and hannibal i cannot think. go get their scouts rather than their players. fully agree.

GSPfan

Brighton v West Ham

Bissouma v Rice.

jimmytwotimes 2013

Weepsie wrote: »

I'd swap Fred,McT and Pogba for Ndidi and Tiellemans tomorrow if possible.

Tielemans was out there when our options at midfield weren't great, thought it strange at the time we didn't take a punt

Weepsie

jimmytwotimes 2013 wrote: »

Tielemans was out there when our options at midfield weren't great, thought it strange at the time we didn't take a punt

It went badly wrong in Monaco, but the club itself was being run badly at the time

pjohnson

Lord TSC wrote: »

I’d rather sign their scouring department, who keep getting these great players for absolute bargains.

I remember when we signed some Serbian lad from the Russian League for 7mill and a French lad for 5.5m and they worked out very well.


Now we just sign ready made galactico-esque types. Never really try to unearth a gem.

jimmytwotimes 2013

pjohnson wrote: »

I remember when we signed some Serbian lad from the Russian League for 7mill and a French lad for 5.5m and they worked out very well.


Now we just sign ready made galactico-esque types.

One of our biggest failings in recent years has been our scouting or our scouts are being ignored.

Kasper is some keeper, dad must very proud! Delighted for their chairman too!

AidoEirE

Lord TSC wrote: »

I’d rather sign their scouting department, who keep getting these great players for absolute bargains.

Didnt we hire some lad from Juve who was the Head of their scouting team. I remember posting on what a signing it was at the time but clearly not the case.

Ndidi for me ticks all the boxes we need for a DM. Fantastic player

AidoEirE

Just to add, leiscter did so well in replacing Kante and finding Ndidi after him. Scouting department on point. Two gems of a find.

el Fenomeno

While it's true, we'd never get quoted the same price as Leicester for these players. We'd be paying a few million extra just because of our name.

Pussyhands

We should have signed Thiago Silva. He really would have been perfect.

I really can't see us signing another expensive CB. Too much emphasis put on Maguires absence. He's been present in 34 league games where we've conceded a goal per game average.

AidoEirE

Pussyhands wrote: »

We should have signed Thiago Silva. He really would have been perfect.

I really can't see us signing another expensive CB. Too much emphasis put on Maguires absence. He's been present in 34 league games where we've conceded a goal per game average.

Have to disagree with this, Silva a stop gap on defence. You can get away with it in a striker roll but CB's you can't do that imo. Maguire does get a pasteing around boards but thats because he's held for the price tag and vs VVD who is better and got for less. This line of thinking needs to be moved on.

Maguire has been very good for me this season but gets more scrutiny more than others in that back line. Big loss for us.

AidoEirE

el Fenomeno wrote: »

While it's true, we'd never get quoted the same price as Leicester for these players. We'd be paying a few million extra just because of our name.

This is down to scouting though. How are they able to find these players out of knowhere tbh and they are pretty great when they get to the PL. A club like us should not be afraid of spending the extra 3-4 million based on our name if the player is ideal.

Scouting department needs a real looking at.

beno619

fatherted1969 wrote: »

I've no real time for Pogba and I've been consistent on here about him but there's no getting away from the fact that he has been good in the last 12 months. To claim McT is better is laughable, at this moment in time McT can't even nail down a consistent starting position

His level of performance has been completely overblown imo.

That winner he scored against Fulham for example, people conflated his great goal with a fairly average performance.

DM_7

AidoEirE wrote: »

This is down to scouting though. How are they able to find these players out of knowhere tbh and they are pretty great when they get to the PL. A club like us should not be afraid of spending the extra 3-4 million based on our name if the player is ideal.

Scouting department needs a real looking at.

The old apples and oranges comparison spring to mind. The clubs have transfer policies that differ for good reason.

Pressure at a club like United is much greater, more scrutiny, more high profile games, players like Ndidi, as he was when he moved there, would never get the game time at United to continue to develop and improve.

The recent transfer success rate has been helped massively by the stability of Rodgers, before him Leicester wasted plenty of money. The season Ndidi joined they also bought Slimani, Mendy and Musa. The next summer they bought Adrien Silva, Iborra.

They pay much less for players overall, they might buy three for what United spend on one, two might not work out and the one who does work out, like Maguire, pay for the poor investments.

They are operating in a space United can't, scouting players of potential is only worthwhile if the players are going to get the games they need to go from a 15 to 20million player to a 60million plus. Leicester would be selling players that 'work out'' United don't want to be selling players.

fatherted1969

DM_7 wrote: »

The old apples and oranges comparison spring to mind. The clubs have transfer policies that differ for good reason.

Pressure at a club like United is much greater, more scrutiny, more high profile games, players like Ndidi, as he was when he moved there, would never get the game time at United to continue to develop and improve.

The recent transfer success rate has been helped massively by the stability of Rodgers, before him Leicester wasted plenty of money. The season Ndidi joined they also bought Slimani, Mendy and Musa. The next summer they bought Adrien Silva, Iborra.

They pay much less for players overall, they might buy three for what United spend on one, two might not work out and the one who does work out, like Maguire, pay for the poor investments.

They are operating in a space United can't, scouting players of potential is only worthwhile if the players are going to get the games they need to go from a 15 to 20million player to a 60million plus. Leicester would be selling players that 'work out'' United don't want to be selling players.

This is the issue really, an 18 yo Fofana plays every week with not much scrutiny as such. An 18 yo Amad or Medjbri plays plenty of games at Leicester. This won't happen at Utd and they miss out on plenty of these types players as a result. They're expected to hit the ground running from day 1. Hopefully these two will play plenty of games next season. We should really be getting these players out to top half championship clubs as early as we can..