Manchester United Teamtalk/Transfer/Gossip 23/24 - [New Thread Available]

The_Kew_Tour

Next weeks final is one of the most important games we have played in quite some time.

Some might think it’s a Mickey Mouse Cup, or rewarding failure (Roy Keane words) but personally I think it will set the tone for next season.

Win it and it will help players belief, trophy under Ole’s belt. If we win it we also go into Super Cup, chance to win another trophy(won’t lose sleep if we don’t win it but still). Play City or Chelsea. Win that and all of sudden we hit ground running next season.

Ifs and buts I know and a tricky ask.

I just think it’s so important for Ole to have something now at this stage. This is his third season. He needs show something.

Plus we have only 5 European Trophies along with Super Cup and 2 World Titles.

It be nice to add a 6th European Trophy. It won’t be the top of the pile, but it will help.

While the 1990 FA Cup final set the tone for Fergie, it was the 1991 Cup Winners Cup that really gave belief to the board, Fergie and players again.

Let’s hope it’s same for Ole. We need every bit of help and positivity going into next season and if that’s just a Europa league so be it. It’s better than sweet fa.

fergiesfolly

All the papers back pages have Kane wanting to go to City.
Which to be honest, is fine with me.
I don't think spending most our transfer budget on one player brings us closer to a title right now.
RW, CDM and hopefully a CD would be a much better window.
I just hope they've nailed down their main and backup targets and get deals done quickly.
But it's United, so....

The Big Easy

Ole can do no right for some and there was some praise through gritted teeth for a while.

I don't know what more we could've expected from this season. I've always said second and a trophy would be more than acceptable for me and obviously next season requires a more coherent prolonged assault on the title.

Sometimes you have to be patient and build something. Fair enough some people don't believe Ole is the man to do that, however, the team continually go in the right direction in terms of: league position, points, goals, squad building, cohesion, morale, cup progression.

Some people don't want to support, they want to win. I'm a supporter, I support Ole and the work he's doing to make Manchester United successful again. He may fall short, but it won't be for lack of effort, passion or commitment. If he does, it will probably be because of matters beyond his control and yes I also hold open the possibility that maybe he doesn't quite have the nous to win it all, but I'm willing to wait for that to be proven one way or the other.

How some can't see any positives or progression is beyond me and smacks of entitlement. Win the Europa League and recruit well this summer, get off to a good start in the league and see what's possible.

The easy option is always to sack the manager and that hasn't worked well for us over the last near decade. The grass isn't always greener. Poch is somehow probably going to lose the French league to Lille with Mbappe and Neymar upfront.

Tell me Klopp or Pep wants the job in the morning, then maybe I'd be willing to move on from Ole. Anyone else, no thanks, I'll see how this one plays out first.

Looking forward to a European final with fans, just wish I could hop on a plane to Poland!

nullzero

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Next weeks final is one of the most important games we have played in quite some time.

Some might think it’s a Mickey Mouse Cup, or rewarding failure (Roy Keane words) but personally I think it will set the tone for next season.

Win it and it will help players belief, trophy under Ole’s belt. If we win it we also go into Super Cup, chance to win another trophy(won’t lose sleep if we don’t win it but still). Play City or Chelsea. Win that and all of sudden we hit ground running next season.

Ifs and buts I know and a tricky ask.

I just think it’s so important for Ole to have something now at this stage. This is his third season. He needs show something.

Plus we have only 5 European Trophies along with Super Cup and 2 World Titles.

It be nice to add a 6th European Trophy. It won’t be the top of the pile, but it will help.

While the 1990 FA Cup final set the tone for Fergie, it was the 1991 Cup Winners Cup that really gave belief to the board, Fergie and players again.

Let’s hope it’s same for Ole. We need every bit of help and positivity going into next season and if that’s just a Europa league so be it. It’s better than sweet fa.

I agree with everything you've said above.

The one huge caveat being the attitude and performances we've been producing in the run up to this final.

A month ago I'd have been confident of us being capable of winning the final reasonably comfortably. We haven't produced a good performance since we came back against Villa.

The biggest hurdle for us is getting the mindset right and then somehow magically producing something resembling form.

As for belief for next season, we could do with it, but what we really need is defensive solidity.

Leagues wins are built on strong defensive foundations, it's nice to be comeback Kings but it would be preferable to cut out the stupid errors that necessitate said come backs and have all too often this season lead to avoidable dropped points.

All the belief in the world won't do us any good until we understand that.

nullzero

fergiesfolly wrote: »

All the papers back pages have Kane wanting to go to City.
Which to be honest, is fine with me.
I don't think spending most our transfer budget on one player brings us closer to a title right now.
RW, CDM and hopefully a CD would be a much better window.
I just hope they've nailed down their main and backup targets and get deals done quickly.
But it's United, so....

Levy supposedly doesn't want to sell to City, he can dig his Heals in with the best of them. I wouldn't be surprised if Kane went nowhere.

KH25

nullzero wrote: »

Levy supposedly doesn't want to sell to City, he can dig his Heals in with the best of them. I wouldn't be surprised if Kane went nowhere.

3 years on his contract so Levy can dig in as much as he likes.

StringerBell

nullzero wrote: »

Levy supposedly doesn't want to sell to City, he can dig his Heals in with the best of them. I wouldn't be surprised if Kane went nowhere.

Why doesn't he want to sell to city?

Also doesn't want to sell to Chelsea so kinda narrowing his potential buyers if that were true.

I think Kane will go, I think he has fan backing to go at this point, they understand his position and he has been up front about wanting out and why he wants out. Levy will get what he considers a fair deal though since Kane still has 3 years on the deal. Someone will pay good money for him.

Not aware the issue with levy and city though?

nullzero

StringerBell wrote: »

Why doesn't he want to sell to city?

Also doesn't want to sell to Chelsea so kinda narrowing his potential buyers if that were true.

I think Kane will go, I think he has fan backing to go at this point, they understand his position and he has been up front about wanting out and why he wants out. Levy will get what he considers a fair deal though since Kane still has 3 years on the deal. Someone will pay good money for him.

Not aware the issue with levy and city though?

No idea why he doesn't want to sell to City, I just saw it in a news article about the situation.

If Levy doesn't have to sell and doesn't want to he probably won't.

El Gato De Negocios

You'd think he'd be happy to sell to city tbh. They are top of the pops anyway so it won't really effect the gap between the two clubs. Selling him to us on the other hand would seem less likely as he would significantly increase the gap between ourselves and Spurs.

Mitch Connor

I would think City are the most likely side in the PL that Levy would do business with.

Won't want Kane to go to London rivals Chelsea.

Spurs realistic goal for next season would be CL football, not the title (Kane or not)
United realist goal for next season is also CL, Kane might push us into PL contention but its a big gap to bridge.
City realistic goal for next season is the PL.

Spurs will see themselves as being in competition with United all season, but only with City on two occasions (plus maybe Cups).

Kane going to City has a smaller impact on Spurs, imo, than Kane going to United.

For him to go to United, it would need to be United or no one for him, and he would need to push it. I don't see that happening. Because realitically United aren't a big enough step up from Spurs. If he wants trophies, United are a gamble, City are not.

StringerBell

nullzero wrote: »

No idea why he doesn't want to sell to City, I just saw it in a news article about the situation.

If Levy doesn't have to sell and doesn't want to he probably won't.

I just think, the same as the two posters previously that city would be his preference in terms of selling within league because it doesn't actually impact spurs much, doesn't strengthen a rival like.

Papers will probably be full of ****e I suppose both ways for the next while, can't see it being sorted by the euros but do remember one paper with a spurs are willing to be compassionate to Harry after everything he has done for the club and all that.

Can't see him lining out for spurs next season personally but stranger things have happened I suppose

Mitch Connor

The Big Easy wrote: »

Tell me Klopp or Pep wants the job in the morning, then maybe I'd be willing to move on from Ole. Anyone else, no thanks, I'll see how this one plays out first.

For me the thing I look to is the massive improvement (imo) in Chelsea between Lampard and Tuchel.

Could United see similar if they replaced their former player, club legend, with a more proven manager at the top level?

Lord TSC

Re Kane and City, the one thing where I wonder about that move is....City aren’t really the type to splash 150m on a player. For all they splash the cash, I think their record signing is Rodri at 70m? They seem to go for a quantity of great players instead of a single 150m player.

Now, maybe they feel Kane is the one to finally do that for. Or they throw Spurs Jesus and another player to lower the cost, like we were rumoured to be offering Martial and Lingard.

Your Airbag

nullzero wrote: »

We last played Villarreal in 2008.

Hardly applicable to anything happening today.

I'll tell you something that is relevant to today though, Unai Emery is the current Villarreal manager and he has won the Europea league three years on the bounce with Sevilla the last of which was in 2016, not so far away that it's irrelevant like our bore draws against Villarreal 13 years ago.

The man has form for this competition, our manager has form for flopping when it counts and we're in horrific form, particularly in defence. But yeah we should be optimistic because we drew against them in 2008.

I never said you should be optimistic. You said they are likely to embarrass us. How exactly? Because we drew to Fulham? If you want to talk about recent results, we've beaten PSG, RB Leipzig, City and Liverpool this season but all of that is ignored in favor of the last few results when top four and 2nd was secured.

As another poster said Ole can do no right but I'm looking forward to the final against Villarreal, it won't be an easy game and who knows how it will go but I'm not looking at it thinking we will be embarrassed. Pure negativity for the sake of it.

The Big Easy

Mitch Connor wrote: »

For me the thing I look to is the massive improvement (imo) in Chelsea between Lampard and Tuchel.

Could United see similar if they replaced their former player, club legend, with a more proven manager at the top level?

That short-term improvement is nothing new and has pretty much happened every time they've sacked a manager during a season, nearly always resulting in cup success and transformed league performance.

Think comparing Ole and Frank is a little unfair based on their tenures. You can quote me again when or if Tuchel wins the league and again he has more boardroom backing in terms of squad investment as Frank did before him.

Now if Ole had the team floundering in 7th, I think many managers could get us up to 3rd or 4th and we'd be hailing them as geniuses.

StringerBell

Lord TSC wrote: »

Re Kane and City, the one thing where I wonder about that move is....City aren’t really the type to splash 150m on a player. For all they splash the cash, I think their record signing is Rodri at 70m? They seem to go for a quantity of great players instead of a single 150m player.

Now, maybe they feel Kane is the one to finally do that for. Or they throw Spurs Jesus and another player to lower the cost, like we were rumoured to be offering Martial and Lingard.

Only reason City would go for it is if the owners want it for the PR imo. It goes against everything they have been doing for the past decade like.

TRC10

Mitch Connor wrote: »

For me the thing I look to is the massive improvement (imo) in Chelsea between Lampard and Tuchel.

Could United see similar if they replaced their former player, club legend, with a more proven manager at the top level?

Chelsea spent £250m for Lampard, and he couldn't get them anywhere near the top 4. They had too much invested in the squad to not get top 4, so they had to sack him.

Ole got zero backing in the summer apart from a few panic buys on deadline day, and he's 2nd in the league and in a cup final.

There's a massive difference.

Your Airbag

TRC10 wrote: »

I was agreeing with you, while also pointing out the poor form.

Do you disagree that the form has been poor?

Sorry, I should have read passed the 1 in 3 part. Yes the form has been poor recently. The reason I believe is we are the only team in the top 6 with a pretty much secured position. Top four secured weeks ago and second pretty much several weeks ago imo. Pool, Leicester, Chelsea all still have things to play for and City were trying to wrap up the title asap.

There is a certain amount of switching off that happens, its not ideal but it happens in the last few games of the season. Happened under Fergie and happens under most managers. Its not ideal, just human nature. Also some of the players are clearly burnt out, which is on Ole and we need new signings to help with that.

StringerBell wrote: »

Where did I say Jose getting second was his greatest achievement and ole getting second is pathetic?

You are defending how the team has played over the last few games?

Okay, go on.

Edit: you know what, I've re read it and I think you are referring to the bit about not needing others to do us any favours when you said we're not which I agree with obviously so apologies if that's the case?

Not claiming you directly made the 2nd place comment but its often or used to be touted around here. Our best since Fergie etc, Jose's greatest achievement when he finished 16 pts behind City. Yet we are finishing 2nd again and it was all doom and gloom yesterday.

Its not something to put up on a pedestal as an amazing achievement, either the 2nd finish from Jose of this one under Ole. Its a sign of progression, thats about it. Two top four finishes under Ole and a cup final, Jose and LVG didn't manage it so its nothing to turn your nose up at considering the league is more competitive than ever.

Its also not a guarantee of an amazing season to come either. We went from 2nd to 6th with Jose. There are no guarantees in football and Ole will have to ensure the current position is maintained and improved upon but I think we are in a better position to build upon it than previous seasons. The team has put in some cracking performances this season. Our away form is really good as is our ability to comeback from behind. We need our home form sorted and new signings and go again.

Your Airbag

The Big Easy wrote: »

That short-term improvement is nothing new and has pretty much happened every time they've sacked a manager during a season, nearly always resulting in cup success and transformed league performance.

Think comparing Ole and Frank is a little unfair based on their tenures. You can quote me again when or if Tuchel wins the league and again he has more boardroom backing in terms of squad investment as Frank did before him.

Now if Ole had the team floundering in 7th, I think many managers could get us up to 3rd or 4th and we'd be hailing them as geniuses.

Tuchel also immediately took over a great squad, one of the best in the league and world football imo. I still can't believe Lampard had them mid-table. 5 signings in the summer, over 200m spent, Havertz, Werner and two defenders plus a goal keeper. Most managers only dream of that kind of backing and most clubs can't do it.

On the other hand Ole had to get rid of as many if not more players when he took over and still try to climb up the table and bring in player in drips and drabs, not 5 at a time. He has more than earned next season and has done very well in some aspects but he has obvious weak spots to work. Next season will be interesting though.

Liam O

TRC10 wrote: »

Chelsea spent £250m for Lampard, and he couldn't get them anywhere near the top 4. They had too much invested in the squad to not get top 4, so they had to sack him.

Ole got zero backing in the summer apart from a few panic buys on deadline day, and he's 2nd in the league and in a cup final.

There's a massive difference.

Somewhere in the middle for me. I can't rate Ole as a top manager but think he does better at United than he would at any other top team because of the personal nature.

It's hard to name 5 worse managers in the PL than him and that's very troubling though.

Granted I'm of the opinion that this level is the plateau for United unless they get very lucky with a lot of youngsters making it.

TRC10

Liam O wrote: »

It's hard to name 5 worse managers in the PL than him and that's very troubling though.

He's 2nd in the league with a squad that very few thought could get top 4.

He's not Klopp or Guardiola but jesus christ, the disrespect the man gets is astonishing at times.

If you think bringing in a new manager is the magic bullet to winning leagues you're kidding yourself.

It may be that he doesn't have what it takes to make the next step and challenge for leagues, but he has more than earned the chance.

And if he isn't the man, one thing is for sure. He'll have left the team in a far better state than he found it and in the best state since 2013.

Your Airbag

Liam O wrote: »

Somewhere in the middle for me. I can't rate Ole as a top manager but think he does better at United than he would at any other top team because of the personal nature.

It's hard to name 5 worse managers in the PL than him and that's very troubling though.

Granted I'm of the opinion that this level is the plateau for United unless they get very lucky with a lot of youngsters making it.

To say he is one of the five worst managers in the league is ridiculous, way over the top.

Ole is not a master tactician, that should be obvious to even his supporters but he's not tactically clueless either and there is more than one way to skin a cat. Fergie never amazed me with tactics, he was clearly better at it than Ole but still he had the whole "You dont need to beat the top 4 teams but win all the other games" attitude. He would put out some teams and they would play very straight forward stuff but it worked. The FA cup match against Arsenal where he played 7 defenders sticks out, the Da Silva twins, Gibson and O'Shea in midfield.

Pep got the better of Fergie yet Ole seems to have gotten the better of Pep, he won his first three away games against Man Cit, the first Utd manager to do so.

PatrickSmithUS

Liam O wrote: »

Somewhere in the middle for me. I can't rate Ole as a top manager but think he does better at United than he would at any other top team because of the personal nature.

He won at Molde, who had never won anything ever before and that keeps getting neglected due to his time at the basketcase in Cardiff.


The players clearly rate him and but for a slow start to the season they could easily have snatched the title - and this despite havign as bad a CB pairing as I've seen during my time following Utd.

Pussyhands

Drumpot wrote: »

In city’s last 6 league games they have lost 3 and won 3 (loses to Brighton, chelsea and Leeds). United have won 2, drawn 2 and lost 2 (loses to Liverpool and Leicester).

Considering the fact United had to change an entire team between Leicester and Liverpool I’m not sure how this looks any worse then City who have a stronger squad and they don’t seem to arsed trying to get a savage points tally. We pretty much guaranteed top four after the spurs game.

If United wins against Villareal, these last few games won’t matter.

You're really comparing City, who have 2 trophies in the bag with a potential CL coming with Ole, who has form for having sustained periods of poor form in seasons?

Why look at just league games by the way? City have also beaten PSG twice in that time, while we've won 2 games in our last 7 in total.

This is already our 3rd period of very poor form this season.

- Beginning of season
- January/February
- Last 7 games or so. You could even stretch that to 8 back to Burnley a month ago where we looked dodgy as hell.

MisterAnarchy

Your Airbag wrote: »

Pep got the better of Fergie yet Ole seems to have gotten the better of Pep, he won his first three away games against Man Cit, the first Utd manager to do so.

Pep got the better of Ferguson ?
Ferguson could have tried all the tactics in the world against that Barcelona side but it wouldnt have made any difference.

Ferguson was definitely too gung ho and naive in both finals against Barcelona though, he should have parked the bus.

Pussyhands

TRC10 wrote: »

He's 2nd in the league with a squad that very few thought could get top 4.

.

What planet were you living on? BBC asked 25 pundits for their top 4 predictions and 24 of them had Utd in it.

https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/54081636

It's even funnier than Spurs weren't picked by any pundit to get top 4, yet they sacked their manager for not getting it and they're currently 6th.

The revisionism is annoying.

I must read different fan forums, podcast and newspapers than you because I distinctly remember the feeling that:

- Ole had sorted our defence and how they're going to be even better that they know each other better, that AWB is going to improve on the ball.

- How McT is always improving and how Ole turned Fred around

- How Pogba and Bruno would be an incredible force.

- How Rashford and Martial had finally begun to start scoring goals and how they'd improve their scoring records this season.

Pussyhands

PatrickSmithUS wrote: »

He won at Molde, who had never won anything ever before and that keeps getting neglected due to his time at the basketcase in Cardiff.


The players clearly rate him and but for a slow start to the season they could easily have snatched the title - and this despite havign as bad a CB pairing as I've seen during my time following Utd.

Stephen Kenny won things in the league of Ireland and couldn't cut it at Dunfermline.

Drumpot

Pussyhands wrote: »

You're really comparing City, who have 2 trophies in the bag with a potential CL coming with Ole, who has form for having sustained periods of poor form in seasons?

Why look at just league games by the way? City have also beaten PSG twice in that time, while we've won 2 games in our last 7 in total.

This is already our 3rd period of very poor form this season.

- Beginning of season
- January/February
- Last 7 games or so. You could even stretch that to 8 back to Burnley a month ago where we looked dodgy as hell.

The league form of both teams is comparable. It really that simple. All your post shows is that there is more then one way of interpreting the last few weeks at the club.

If United win against Villareal, overall its been a good season and not One reasonable fan could of really expected more then 2nd and a cup at the start of the season. Its progress even if its not where we want to be.

If you want to expand on your point on City, they have a much stronger squad and United have had much much tougher games all season in all the cups. United had mostly EPL teams in the national cups and Leipzig, PSG and Milan are better then anybody City played in Europe before their semi final against PSG.

I would argue United squad has more excuse to be tired now then the City one and that their drop in form is worse then ours. Their players are playing for a CL final spot against a Chelsea team finding form. If United lose to Villareal then people will have a good point, but if they win the last week is irrelevant for me.

dave_o_brien

Liam O wrote: »

It's hard to name 5 worse managers in the PL than him and that's very troubling though.

So I've been thinking about this (or more who the best managers in the league are) and have to say, I don't agree with this kind of assessment of Ole.

This is my opinion on how the managers really break down, though not necessarily in order:

The cream of the crop:
Pep, Klopp, Rodgers

The good managers:
Dyche, Nuno Santo, Bielsa, Hassenhuttl, Ancelotti, Tuchel

The decent:
Potter, Smith, Moyes, Bruce

The "how are they managing a Premier League team" manages:
Hodgson, Parker, Heckingbottom (interim), Allardyce, Mason (interim, and who knows how he could really turn out?!)

I think Ole comfortably sits in group 2 there. Let's assume he's the worst of them for a second - this means he's the 10th best manager in the league. Absolute middle of the table. Guiding a United team in transition with obvious glaring holes in the squad and a known issue with squad depth to the CL for the second of his two full seasons in charge and a EL final to come... That suggests either a very high managerial standard, or it suggests (y)our assessment of him is a bit off.

Drumpot

Pussyhands wrote: »

Stephen Kenny won things in the league of Ireland and couldn't cut it at Dunfermline.

Pep Guardiola and Zinedine Zidane had no managerial pedigree before taking over Madrid and Barca . . Ole was therefore more experienced manager when he took over . . If Ole wins against Villareal he will of led United to the best season any manager has had since SAF (2nd in league and Europa), better then more experienced Jose and LVG, with even less of a budget. We can all spin a web to suit the flies we want to catch. .

S.M.B.

Pussyhands wrote: »

You're really comparing City, who have 2 trophies in the bag with a potential CL coming with Ole, who has form for having sustained periods of poor form in seasons?

Why look at just league games by the way? City have also beaten PSG twice in that time, while we've won 2 games in our last 7 in total.

This is already our 3rd period of very poor form this season.

- Beginning of season
- January/February
- Last 7 games or so. You could even stretch that to 8 back to Burnley a month ago where we looked dodgy as hell.

Comparing the similar recent league performances of both teams makes complete sense to me as both sets of fixtures were of little consequence after a season like no other.

City have also bookended their season with two runs of poor form (again, probably not a coincidence) and I don't think anyone can argue the big difference between the two clubs in terms of PL position is City's lack of a dip in form in January / February.

TRC10

Pussyhands wrote: »

What planet were you living on? BBC asked 25 pundits for their top 4 predictions and 24 of them had Utd in it.

https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/54081636

It's even funnier than Spurs weren't picked by any pundit to get top 4, yet they sacked their manager for not getting it and they're currently 6th.

The revisionism is annoying.

I must read different fan forums, podcast and newspapers than you because I distinctly remember the feeling that:

- Ole had sorted our defence and how they're going to be even better that they know each other better, that AWB is going to improve on the ball.

- How McT is always improving and how Ole turned Fred around

- How Pogba and Bruno would be an incredible force.

- How Rashford and Martial had finally begun to start scoring goals and how they'd improve their scoring records this season.

Even if 24 pundits thought we'd get top 4...he got 2nd. Are you criticising him for not winning the league?

I don't think anyone thought Maguire and Lindelof was good enough to win a league. Hence why Ole wanted a CB last summer.

Mctominay has improved this season. And who said he "turned Fred around"?? Nobody thought McFred could win a league.

Rashford's numbers have improved this season, and he's injured.

Martial thrived last season when Lukaku left, he was given the number 9 shirt and told he'd be the main man. I think the signing of Cavani has had something to do with Martial going off the boil this year.

Pussyhands

dave_o_brien wrote: »

So I've been thinking about this (or more who the best managers in the league are) and have to say, I don't agree with this kind of assessment of Ole.

This is my opinion on how the managers really break down, though not necessarily in order:

The cream of the crop:
Pep, Klopp, Rodgers

The good managers:
Dyche, Nuno Santo, Bielsa, Hassenhuttl, Ancelotti, Tuchel

The decent:
Potter, Smith, Moyes, Bruce

The "how are they managing a Premier League team" manages:
Hodgson, Parker, Heckingbottom (interim), Allardyce, Mason (interim, and who knows how he could really turn out?!)

I think Ole comfortably sits in group 2 there. Let's assume he's the worst of them for a second - this means he's the 10th best manager in the league. Absolute middle of the table. Guiding a United team in transition with obvious glaring holes in the squad and a known issue with squad depth to the CL for the second of his two full seasons in charge and a EL final to come... That suggests either a very high managerial standard, or it suggests (y)our assessment of him is a bit off.

Hodgson at the bottom? Hodgson has done a great job with palace.

Bruce should be at the bottom.

Allardyce is very good still.

Do people not wonder at how Ole came in right away and immediately got results without his tactics being implemented or his own players? Just shows our players weren't as bad as the table suggested and that it was down to Mourinho more than anything. At the end of the day, Ole took a squad that finished 2nd the previous season and then spent hundreds of milions to improve it.

He took over a team 2.5 years ago that was in the Champions League and after all the money and time, we're entering a Europa League final. There's no progress.

TRC10

Pussyhands wrote: »

Hodgson at the bottom? Hodgson has done a great job with palace.

Bruce should be at the bottom.

Allardyce is very good still.

Do people not wonder at how Ole came in right away and immediately got results without his tactics being implemented or his own players? Just shows our players weren't as bad as the table suggested and that it was down to Mourinho more than anything. At the end of the day, Ole took a squad that finished 2nd the previous season and then spent hundreds of milions to improve it.

He took over a team 2.5 years ago that was in the Champions League and after all the money and time, we're entering a Europa League final. There's no progress.

What money?? What is this money you speak of?

He got AWB, Maguire and Bruno. Thats it.

3 players in 2.5 years.

Liam O

TRC10 wrote: »

He's 2nd in the league with a squad that very few thought could get top 4.

He's not Klopp or Guardiola but jesus christ, the disrespect the man gets is astonishing at times.

If you think bringing in a new manager is the magic bullet to winning leagues you're kidding yourself.

It may be that he doesn't have what it takes to make the next step and challenge for leagues, but he has more than earned the chance.

And if he isn't the man, one thing is for sure. He'll have left the team in a far better state than he found it and in the best state since 2013.

I think the level of this team is overrated and next season without signing at least 3 top level players to play striker, right wing and midfield which obviously won't happen, the other teams will catch back up and it will be a battle between United, Spurs and Leicester for top 4 with Liverpool, City and Chelsea up there for the league.

Just don't see where the improvement is going to come from. Bruno has carried the team at times in terms of goals and assists but can I say that he's played well overall? Not really. They're 2 or 3 attackers short of City and miles behind in terms of tactical and overall philosophy. Bottlers too it seems going by their performances in must win games.

I know it's pessimistic but I just don't see it.

Mitch Connor

TRC10 wrote: »

What money?? What is this money you speak of?

He got AWB, Maguire and Bruno. Thats it.

3 players in 2.5 years.

arguably or not, James, Amad, Pellestri have to be included - club paid 50mil (plus more to come) for them. Arguable to what level Ole demanded/wanted/was impacted by those signings.

telles should be added too.

TRC10

Mitch Connor wrote: »

arguably or not, James, Amad, Pellestri have to be included - club paid 50mil (plus more to come) for them. Arguable to what level Ole demanded/wanted/was impacted by those signings.

telles should be added too.

Adding Amad and Pellestri to the list of "Ole signings" is really desperate.

Telles was a Woodward panic buy on deadline day.

Liam O

TRC10 wrote: »

Adding Amad and Pellestri to the list of "Ole signings" is really desperate.

Telles was a Woodward panic buy on deadline day.

Ah so only the players you want to count are included then.

TRC10

Liam O wrote: »

Ah so only the players you want to count are included then.

Oh grow up.

Ok you're right. Ole should be winning the league with his first team signings, Amad and Pallestri

KH25

TRC10 wrote: »

Adding Amad and Pellestri to the list of "Ole signings" is really desperate.

Telles was a Woodward panic buy on deadline day.

There’s nothing to prove that statement though. We were linked with both Telles and Regulion, so I don’t think that can be called a panic signing. Pellestri was loaned out fair enough, but Amad has been training with the first team a while and has a few appearances so Ole obviously rates him.

I agree that the club needs to bring in the players we need, and I think money hasn’t been spent wisely in the past, but we can’t just cherry pick players that were signed and ignore others.

TRC10

KH25 wrote: »

There’s nothing to prove that statement though. We were linked with both Telles and Regulion, so I don’t think that can be called a panic signing. Pellestri was loaned out fair enough, but Amad has been training with the first team a while and has a few appearances so Ole obviously rates him.

I agree that the club needs to bring in the players we need, and I think money hasn’t been spent wisely in the past, but we can’t just cherry pick players that were signed and ignore others.

Amad had played like 5 games for Atalanta. He was always going straight into the u23s and maybe go on loan.

It was a punt in a youngster, with the hope that he'd make the first team in a few years. He wasnt a first XI signing.

Maybe we did want Telles. But he was way down the priority list. I can't prove he was a panic buy...but come on. We sign a backup left back and a 34 year old striker on deadline day after an abysmal window. It doesn't take a genius.

Mitch Connor

TRC10 wrote: »

Adding Amad and Pellestri to the list of "Ole signings" is really desperate.

Telles was a Woodward panic buy on deadline day.

They are players signed when Ole was manager. It is perfectly valid to include them as valid signings.

The post said 3 players in 2.5 years, questioning the money.

there is 4 players at anywhere from 50 to 70 million. It is significant money.

Ole wanted a backup to Shaw - Telles is what he got. Saying he is a panic buy is your own speculation, not a factual statement.

You can argue Amad and Pellestri are longer term signings, and James was a punt - but they are still signings made under Ole, money spent under Ole. They were also highlighted (rightly or wrongly) as first team signings as opposed to someone like Hannibal who came from the youth budget.

i'm not arguing Ole didn't want Sancho and wanted Amad instead (Amad was a wanted target. I'm not saying Ole didn't want Haaland and wanted Igahlo or Cavani instead. I'm not saying united have given Ole his fist choice targets.

I am saying ole has signed more than 3 players in 2.5 years.

Pussyhands

TRC10 wrote: »

What money?? What is this money you speak of?

He got AWB, Maguire and Bruno. Thats it.

3 players in 2.5 years.

That's almost 200m on 3 players.

- Telles around 12m

- Donny 35m

- James 15

- Amad 18m

- Pellistri 9m

So that's 290m odd.

City bought Torres for 20m.

TRC10

Mitch Connor wrote: »

They are players signed when Ole was manager. It is perfectly valid to include them as valid signings.

The post said 3 players in 2.5 years, questioning the money.

there is 4 players at anywhere from 50 to 70 million. It is significant money.

Ole wanted a backup to Shaw - Telles is what he got. Saying he is a panic buy is your own speculation, not a factual statement.

You can argue Amad and Pellestri are longer term signings, and James was a punt - but they are still signings made under Ole, money spent under Ole. They were also highlighted (rightly or wrongly) as first team signings as opposed to someone like Hannibal who came from the youth budget.

i'm not arguing Ole didn't want Sancho and wanted Amad instead (Amad was a wanted target. I'm not saying Ole didn't want Haaland and wanted Igahlo or Cavani instead. I'm not saying united have given Ole his fist choice targets.

I am saying ole has signed more than 3 players in 2.5 years.

Ok but what's your point?

Should Ole be winning leagues with those signings?

beakerjoe

With The petrol bomb attack on the Celtic Chief Exec, I wonder will some moron fan copycat it on a United higher up.

Petrol bombs are when the battle is out of control.

TRC10

Pussyhands wrote: »

That's almost 200m on 3 players.

- Telles around 12m

- Donny 35m

- James 15

- Amad 18m

- Pellistri 9m

So that's 290m odd.

City bought Torres for 20m.

Why should Ole be held accountable for the clubs poor recruitment?

Liam O

TRC10 wrote: »

Why should Ole be held accountable for the clubs poor recruitment?

Why should he get credit for the club's good recruitment?

Answer: because he is the manager.

Mitch Connor

TRC10 wrote: »

Ok but what's your point?

Should Ole be winning leagues with those signings?

No, I think United are some way off a league winning side.

We should be able to beat Arsenal. Or Sheffield United at home. Or Fulham at home. or everton when 2 goals up with minutes to play. or West Brom. or Palace. Or not lose 3 games out of 4 in the CL.

United should be playing and performing better than they are and have been this season.

TRC10

Mitch Connor wrote: »

No, I think United are some way off a league winning side.

We should be able to beat Arsenal. Or Sheffield United at home. Or Fulham at home. or everton when 2 goals up with minutes to play. or West Brom. or Palace. Or not lose 3 games out of 4 in the CL.

United should be playing and performing better than they are and have been this season.

We can beat those teams. We just dropped points on the day. That's life, that's football, you drop points sometimes.

No manager is doing better than 2nd with this group of players.

dave_o_brien

Pussyhands wrote: »

Hodgson at the bottom? Hodgson has done a great job with palace.

Bruce should be at the bottom.

Allardyce is very good still.

Do people not wonder at how Ole came in right away and immediately got results without his tactics being implemented or his own players? Just shows our players weren't as bad as the table suggested and that it was down to Mourinho more than anything. At the end of the day, Ole took a squad that finished 2nd the previous season and then spent hundreds of milions to improve it.

He took over a team 2.5 years ago that was in the Champions League and after all the money and time, we're entering a Europa League final. There's no progress.

That's grand, you're entitled to that opinion.

Allardyce is not very good. Hodgson, yeah maybe... Bruce, fair enough. I think Ole has made pretty clear progress.

But would you have Ole bottom 5 managers in the league?! I wouldn't.