Manchester United Teamtalk/Transfer/Gossip 23/24 - [New Thread Available]

beno619

Exactly wrote: »

The squad didn't really. We don't have a squad capable of covering if we get any injuries as we are seeing now with Maguire injured. We played a full strength team in practically every match with the odd change across the front 3.

I'm not really sure what argument you're trying to make.

All I was saying was that Ole took over a strong squad, the holes in it were clearly identified and Jose was crying out for them to be addressed yet he still achieved 82 points and won 2 trophies with them.

beno619

DM_7 wrote: »

I think your quote excludes the context about the players who left since then which is a key item to consider, United were not just buying to kick on and improve on players with previous options moving to squad and rotation roles, they were buying to replace people full stop.

It was not like City buying Mahrez to add to Sterling and Silva for example.

Most of what United have done since then has only allowed them to keep pace with the kind of results they were getting but now, due to the age profile of the squad, the club can start making the Mahrez type signing.

To me United were a good side back then, no more and not high performing in terms of really in the reckoning for the league ot champions league. Second was a good season but the squad base was still low conpared to the output that fans desire (Able to win a league and or champions league) The loss the Sevilla was perfect example of where the squad was.

In 17/18 the United side included Young as first choice left back, Valencia as Right back, Smalling at CB. All are gone. The two main forwards are gone (Lukaku and Sanchez), gone from midfield is Herrera. Lingard is gone on loan. Matic is now a squad player replaced by other players already at the club (Fred and McT). Mata and Jones are as good as gone. Fellaini, Darmian and Rojo were relatively minor squad players but are gone.

You're original post discusses the squad the Ole inherited or at least that's how I interpreted it. I agree the the club has been patching holes slower than new ones appear and that's been true pretty much every summer since Jose's second.

If United were only a good side then then what what you call this current United side ? I personally wouldn't put too much stock into that Sevilla result considering the manager had a decent record in cup football and I won't read to much into the Villareal result win or lose based on having seen what the manage this capable of over the past 3 years.

On players that have left since I disagree with some of them and think he created problems where they didn't exist but I don't think anyone wants to hear he complaining about Lukaku and how Sanchez would have been a better option than Chong and Andreas last season.

beno619

beno619 wrote: »

I'm not really sure what argument you're trying to make.

All I was saying was that Ole took over a strong squad, the holes in it were clearly identified and Jose was crying out for them to be addressed yet he still achieved 82 points and won 2 trophies with them.

I'm not arguing with anything in your post. Just pointing out how weak our squad really is.

2nd place might paper over the cracks but the cracks aren't getting any smaller.

Mitch Connor

beno619 wrote: »

I'm not really sure what argument you're trying to make.

All I was saying was that Ole took over a strong squad, the holes in it were clearly identified and Jose was crying out for them to be addressed yet he still achieved 82 points and won 2 trophies with them.

And Ole took over the squad he left and has got second and might add a trophy on Wednesday too.

finished 2nd but performances were patchey, much as they are now imo.

That team also needed some key additions.

A CB, which we didn't get.
A RB, which we didn't get.
A RW, which we didn't get.
A top class midfielder, which we didn't get.

Jose through his toys out of the pram.

We got a RB and CB the following summer (with Ole) but didn't get a RW or midfielder.
We also lost two forwards and replaced neither.
Got Bruno in January but still didn't sort out the striker position.
Following summer we got a short term striker and a CM/AM that hasn't yet worked out.
We still haven't signed the winger we need.
Our CM position has become a bigger problem because Matic can't play or run enough.

But, imo, our first choice 11 should perform better than it does, and that is on Ole and the coaches.

DM_7

beno619 wrote: »

You're original post discusses the squad the Ole inherited or at least that's how I interpreted it. I agree the the club has been patching holes slower than new ones appear and that's been true pretty much every summer since Jose's second.

If United were only a good side then then what what you call this current United side ? I personally wouldn't put too much stock into that Sevilla result considering the manager had a decent record in cup football and I won't read to much into the Villareal result win or lose based on having seen what the manage this capable of over the past 3 years.

On players that have left since I disagree with some of them and think he created problems where they didn't exist but I don't think anyone wants to hear he complaining about Lukaku and how Sanchez would have been a better option than Chong and Andreas last season.

I am not going to quote myself but in your reply you cut out the listing of players I said have left and that rating him should factor in the side he had and the changes that had to be made. My post was really about the spend issue and trying to add some context to the overall changes since then rather than saying that side or manager were bad.

The Sevilla result was mentioned as United were well beaten over two legs. 7 of the players who started at OT are gone since (Lingard is on loan). Take 7 players from a side and it would cost a lot to replace them never mind improve on them.

Rashford, DDG, Matic and Bailly remain.and only Rashford and possibly DDG would be in the first team

I think this is a good side that United have now and because of the age profile can go further with additions. I think it has a higher base level overall.

I don't know if Ole can take them further but I do think he has done well to get the team to a place where they can look forward when changes are made (new players or even a new manager).

FWIW agree United 19/20 season would have been better with Lukaku and Sanchez if both wanted to be at United and were serious about doing well. I am not sure they were in a good place and needed a move. I respect Ole for having the guts to say goodbye to players in that scenario where it had potential to damage his chances of ever getting a good run at the job. It was a tough time for all.

beno619

DM_7 wrote: »

I am not going to quote myself but in your reply you cut out the listing of players I said have left and that rating him should factor in the side he had and the changes that had to be made. My post was really about the spend issue and trying to add some context to the overall changes since then rather than saying that side or manager were bad.

We probably have a difference in opinion on which changes needed to be made at the end of the day he made those changes and most of them were within his control, if he temporarily weakened the squad it was his decision.

The Sevilla result was mentioned as United were well beaten over two legs. 7 of the players who started at OT are gone since (Lingard is on loan). Take 7 players from a side and it would cost a lot to replace them never mind improve on them.

Rashford, DDG, Matic and Bailly remain.and only Rashford and possibly DDG would be in the first team

How many of the side that also beat PSG over two legs ?

I think this is a good side that United have now and because of the age profile can go further with additions. I think it has a higher base level overall.

I'm not so sure about this myself but that's a fair opinion. The facts are this side have accumulated fewer points and haven't won a trophy yet. Bruno has certainly added an Xfactor and players like Shaw, Rashford, McTominay and Fred have improved.

I don't know if Ole can take them further but I do think he has done well to get the team to a place where they can look forward when changes are made (new players or even a new manager).

FWIW agree United 19/20 season would have been better with Lukaku and Sanchez if both wanted to be at United and were serious about doing well. I am not sure they were in a good place and needed a move. I respect Ole for having the guts to say goodbye to players in that scenario where it had potential to damage his chances of ever getting a good run at the job. It was a tough time for all.

I disagree that Lukaku would have damaged his potential of getting a good run at the job he arguably wouldn't have gotten the gig full time if it wasn't for Lukaku.

Dozyart

Great new vid out with Neville asking Fergie fans questions on Ladbible youtube channel.....He has Park as one of his most underrated players and says we would have beaten Barca at Wembley if he made a change at half time for Park to man mark Messi!

"What the hell's Ladbible?"

DM_7

beno619 wrote: »

I disagree that Lukaku would have damaged his potential of getting a good run at the job he arguably wouldn't have gotten the gig full time if it wasn't for Lukaku.

Sorry, I meant letting them go, especially Lukaku was the risky part, he needed a striker but was actually willing to be down one for a while.

I am surprised we disagree that players like Valencia, Young, Smalling, Sanchez, Darmian, Rojo, Fellaini did not have to go or that pushing players like Jones, Mata, Matic, Dalot and Lingard to the side was not needed. I accept Lukaku as one that many will never agree was the right thing. Herrera did not need to go but the money in offer at PSG was a factor.

xtal191

Dozyart wrote: »

Great new vid out with Neville asking Fergie fans questions on Ladbible youtube channel.....He has Park as one of his most underrated players and says we would have beaten Barca at Wembley if he made a change at half time for Park to man mark Messi!

"What the hell's Ladbible?"

All_in_Flynn

xtal191 wrote: »

Makes me happy to see the man still has that charm and sharp wit about him. Seems in a good place and hope he's enjoying his retirement. Looking forward to watching the documentary.

Pussyhands

Another dodgy result this weekend conceding a poor goal or bad performance will put a lot of pressure going into the final I think.

I don't think Cavani will start this weekend.

Pussyhands

DM_7 wrote: »

I think your quote excludes the context about the players who left since then which is a key item to consider, United were not just buying to kick on and improve on players with previous options moving to squad and rotation roles, they were buying to replace people full stop.

It was not like City buying Mahrez to add to Sterling and Silva for example.

Most of what United have done since then has only allowed them to keep pace with the kind of results they were getting but now, due to the age profile of the squad, the club can start making the Mahrez type signing.

To me United were a good side back then, no more and not high performing in terms of really in the reckoning for the league ot champions league. Second was a good season but the squad base was still low conpared to the output that fans desire (Able to win a league and or champions league) The loss the Sevilla was perfect example of where the squad was.

In 17/18 the United side included Young as first choice left back, Valencia as Right back, Smalling at CB. All are gone. The two main forwards are gone (Lukaku and Sanchez), gone from midfield is Herrera. Lingard is gone on loan. Matic is now a squad player replaced by other players already at the club (Fred and McT). Mata and Jones are as good as gone. Fellaini, Darmian and Rojo were relatively minor squad players but are gone.

The players Ole got rid of (for the most part) were deadwood.

Rojo

Pereira

Lingard

Valencia

Young

Also McT, Rashford and Martial were much much younger and less developed than they are now.

Lord TSC

https://www.manutd.com/en/news/detail/hannibal-and-shola-shoretire-to-be-involved-at-wolves-on-final-day

Manchester United manager Ole Gunnar Solskjaer has told us he expects Hannibal and Shola Shoretire to be involved on the final day of the Premier League season at Wolves.

The boss, speaking to club reporter Mark Sullivan at the Aon Training Complex, suggested he would reward the teenagers for their work in the Under-23s.

Adamocovic

Lord TSC wrote: »

https://www.manutd.com/en/news/detail/hannibal-and-shola-shoretire-to-be-involved-at-wolves-on-final-day

Manchester United manager Ole Gunnar Solskjaer has told us he expects Hannibal and Shola Shoretire to be involved on the final day of the Premier League season at Wolves.

The boss, speaking to club reporter Mark Sullivan at the Aon Training Complex, suggested he would reward the teenagers for their work in the Under-23s.

I like that.

Nice to be in the situation where we can put out the youngsters for the final game of the season.

v3ttel

Just watching through the video. Ronny Johnsen is an absolutely great shout as one of the most underrated players. Everything about him was absolutely top class.

Adamocovic

Have to say I liked Ole’s statement saying we need more signings to challenge higher up the table.
Clearly meant for the board and owners ears.

“We’re too far behind to think it will come by itself.”

That part sums it up completely. Don’t take a 2nd and possible cup as job done.

wadacrack

v3ttel wrote: »

Just watching through the video. Ronny Johnsen is an absolutely great shout as one of the most underrated players. Everything about him was absolutely top class.

Yea definitely, always mentioned by players from what I've seen. Injuries held him back . Blomquist was potentially very good too.

Remembering the greatest footballer who ever lived, George Best on his 75th birthday! Think he would have enjoyed that Cavani goal the other night!

Lithium93_

Good news.

https://twitter.com/utdreport/status/1396157895851511810

xtal191

Anyone else watch Madrid vs Villareal? We really should be beating them with ease, they're not great at all

S.M.B.

Only watched the last 10 minutes? Any reason we should be beating them with ease when Madrid failed to do the same?

Were they all over them for the majority of the game?

Pussyhands

Rashford not ruling out moving abroad...

Would he like to play abroad? “I would never say no.” What would be his ideal club? “Other than United? I’m a big fan of Real Madrid and Barcelona, because they’ve always had great players and played attractive football.” He apologises for giving what he thinks is an obvious answer: “Everybody watches Real Madrid and Barcelona.”

xtal191

S.M.B. wrote: »

Only watched the last 10 minutes? Any reason we should be beating them with ease when Madrid failed to do the same?

Were they all over them for the majority of the game?

To be honest I think we're better than that Madrid side, La Liga is really poor this season. Madrid weren't great themselves but Villarreal look a really slow team, I cant see them handling the pace of our players.

Was pretty much their full strength team too so hopefully we'll be resting a good few players tomorrow.

Obviously anything can happen in a final but we really should be winning it, we've beaten better teams on the way to the final.

Deise_2012

Duncan Castle has written in the Sunday Times that United are ready to offer a serious financial package to Tottenham for Mr.Kane. Ole open to getting rid of Martial and compensating Kane if he hands in a written transfer request.

Again, I dunno how I feel about this. If we get Kane, we’re gonna be in the goals next season but I can’t see us signing anyone else. I’d much rather get Sancho and a defensive midfielder this summer and go for Haaland the following season. What’s the point in having Cavani when Kane is going to demand to play every game like Bruno.

Lord TSC

If Martial was involved, I reckon Kane and Sancho work out as much of a muchness in terms of costs.p and impact on budget. You’d probably say it locks Greenwood into the Rw spot for a few years. A striker, CDM and a backup RB, for instance.

As far as Cavani goes. He’s 34 with a history of injuries. He won’t be playing more than a third of games, realistically. We need a first team striker we can rely on to play 35-40 games a season.

Still, I think we will just be used to help Kane get the better deal with City. If he leaves Spurs, it will be for an absolute promise of trophies, which we can’t offer over City.

PsychoPete

Cavani won't play every game so that would probably leave Martial as the striker which he isn't good enough. I'd much rather get Kane than Sancho. Kane is a ready made player in the league, you'll keep him till he is well into his 30's where as Haaland will probably want to move on after 3 seasons, if the reports about his wage demands are true then I'd rather they I didn't sign him. They see Greenwood as the future striker so if they go for Sancho do they have Cavani and Greenwood as the main strikers,Rashford and Martial on the left, Sancho and Amad on the right? I don't know if Greenwood is ready for that yet. With the depth of the City and Chelsea squads I think United would probably need to add four players to really compete with them

Bleating Lamb

What do people think will be the starting lineup today.....seeing as the team have really gone off the boil at the wrong time coming up to a major Final and Olle’s first chance to win Silverware I think he will go with a reasonably strong starting to try and get a win.Of course he will consult closely with the Medical team to assess who is fit to start both today and Wednesday.
I reckon Henderson gets the nod today and DDG on Wednesday.

Possibly this 11 today?
Hendo
AWB. Tuanzebe. Lindelof. Telles
Amad. Donny. Fred. Pogba
Bruno
Rashford.

With likes of Bruno,AWB,Fred coming off after 60 mins.

Lord TSC

I’d expect the team most likely to play the finals. While you want to protect them, you don’t want them not playing an uncompetitive match for two weeks.

pjohnson

Are Hannibal, Shoretire and Elanga not confirmed starters?

StringerBell

pjohnson wrote: »

Are Hannibal, Shoretire and Elanga not confirmed starters?

Not sure whether they were confirmed starters or confirmed as being involved, can't be arsed to go back and check either

I can see everyone who will be playing in the final involved at some point to keep them ticking over but also I'd see the likes of Bruno and Cavani being protected and seeing no more than 60 minutes each.

All_in_Flynn

Can the travelling squad for the game be found anywhere? That will give an indication of the team I think.

pjohnson

Could also see a Grant sighting aswell. He's the only senior player set to be released afaicr so sometimes weird things happen on the final day regarding goalkeepers.

(Makes Fantasy Football all the more annoying)

Lord TSC

pjohnson wrote: »

Are Hannibal, Shoretire and Elanga not confirmed starters?

Likely get minutes but dont think confirmed starters.

GSPfan

If we are going for a striker this Summer then Dusan Vlahovic looks the part. He looks like the type of player Spurs would buy and then we’d be talking about buying him 2 years later for triple the amount they paid.

I’ve no idea how much Vlahovic would cost but lets say 60 million. I think id rather buy Sancho and Vlahovic for a combined 140 million than spend a reported 100-120 million on Kane.

Having Cavani and Vlahovic next season would be great.

wanderer100

Scenes if Phil Jones makes a return today :P

https://twitter.com/samuelluckhurst/status/1396430336482070528?s=20

FourFourRED

Phil Jones back in time for the Europa League final :-P

beakerjoe

GSPfan wrote: »

If we are going for a striker this Summer then Dusan Vlahovic looks the part. He looks like the type of player Spurs would buy and then we’d be talking about buying him 2 years later for triple the amount they paid.

I’ve no idea how much Vlahovic would cost but lets say 60 million. I think id rather buy Sancho and Vlahovic for a combined 140 million than spend a reported 100-120 million on Kane.

Having Cavani and Vlahovic next season would be great.

I Think hes more Soldado and Jansen than Berbatov personally.

Whatsisname

Sounds like we’re putting out the kids and Jones today. Goodbye sweet away record.

Though in seriousness, I don’t expect a win today and that’s a real worrying run of form going into the final.

S.M.B.

If Ole and those with an eye on the players well being feel it's best to rest those looking to start mid week then I'm delighted that the away record isn't a consideration.

Whatsisname

[url]

https://twitter.com/utdreport/status/1396466585590800388?s=21[/url]

DDG, Pogba, Shaw, Bruno, Fred and Cavani all not in the squad. All starters on Wednesday presumably.

FourFourRED

Great to see Hannibal in the match day squad

EltonJohn69

Fish !

Lithium93_

https://twitter.com/utdreport/status/1396470713914064900

wadacrack

[QUOTE=GSPfan;117242593]If we are going for a striker this Summer then Dusan Vlahovic looks the part. He looks like the type of player Spurs would buy and then we’d be talking about buying him 2 years later for triple the amount they paid.

I’ve no idea how much Vlahovic would cost but lets say 60 million. I think id rather buy Sancho and Vlahovic for a combined 140 million than spend a reported 100-120 million on Kane.

Having Cavani and Vlahovic next season would be great.[/QUOTE]

No chance any big team will pay that amount. One good season in Serie A does not mean much. The Premier League is a big step up as Werner as admitted/found out.

py2006

With recent poor performances and results and the big game in mind for Wed...


Score predictions??

nullzero

py2006 wrote: »

With recent poor performances and results and the big game in mind for Wed...


Score predictions??

1-1, has all the ingredients for a drab affair with neither side being pushed.

StringerBell

StringerBell wrote: »

Not sure whether they were confirmed starters or confirmed as being involved, can't be arsed to go back and check either

I can see everyone who will be playing in the final involved at some point to keep them ticking over but also I'd see the likes of Bruno and Cavani being protected and seeing no more than 60 minutes each.

I am completely wrong, the final team is bring wrapped in cotton wool for the most part

xtal191

py2006 wrote: »

With recent poor performances and results and the big game in mind for Wed...


Score predictions??

3-1 win

py2006

They keep talking about the undefeated away run but that wasn't done by the team selected today!

Whatsisname

Elanga should have buried that.