Manchester United Teamtalk/Transfer/Gossip 23/24 - [New Thread Available]

Trey13

Reasonably pleased with how the season went. Ole has definitely improved Shaw, Wan Bissaka, McTominay and Greenwood in my opinion. Even Bruno, Maguire and Cavani had excellent seasons also.

I think Ole is nearly like Brendan Rodgers in the sense of what he did for Liverpool - getting them to a good place but not good enough for a league title (for the record I think Rodgers is a better manager than Ole). He's earned the right for another season but I just don't think he's the man to bring us a title. I'm not sure who is. Having said that, if we sign Harry Kane, I think we have a great chance.

Cookiemunster

StringerBell wrote: »

The team have buckled under pressure many, many times so not sure why there would be sensitivity to that comment.

Have we heard of coaching? I understand we don't see much improvement in the way of the players being coached, markedly worse at defending for example but surely if Ole is to be given credit you can't continuously just point to him needing brilliant players all over the pitch? He has to improve the ones he has too. I don't think thats unfair really.

Glad to end the league campaign on a good note and happy to see some of the young lads get a chance, roll on Wednesday

We had no preseason only had one midweek off all season. There was very little training ground coaching done this season. It was mainly match preparation and recovery from what I've read/heard online.

I agree that we need to see more from OGS on the coaching side, but the uniqueness of this season has to be taken into account.

TRC10

StringerBell wrote: »

The team have buckled under pressure many, many times so not sure why there would be sensitivity to that comment.

Have we heard of coaching? I understand we don't see much improvement in the way of the players being coached, markedly worse at defending for example but surely if Ole is to be given credit you can't continuously just point to him needing brilliant players all over the pitch? He has to improve the ones he has too. I don't think thats unfair really.

Glad to end the league campaign on a good note and happy to see some of the young lads get a chance, roll on Wednesday

Ole has improved players. Pogba has played his best football for the club under Ole. Shaw has gone from needing to be replaced, to the best LB in England. Lindelöf has come on hugely in the last 2 seasons. AWB has become much better going forward. Martial (although he had a bad season this season) had his best season last year. McTominay has come on as a player too.

But if you're expecting Ole to make Fred and McTominay a title winning midfield pairing then you have unrealistic expectations.

All_in_Flynn

Nice to end the league season with a win. I thought some of the young lads really handled themselves well. Diallo looks like a loan would be good for him. You can see he has a lovely weight of pass and good technique.

I've high hopes for Hannibal. He only got 10 mins and it's obviously fairly meaningless but I just like what I see every time he play's. He has a good turn of foot for a midfielder and he has that bit of bite I think you need to accompany his technical ability. Looks like a real all rounder. I'd keep him around next year and look to get him more games where we can.

Looking forward to Wednesday now. Such a big game for this team.

Pussyhands

El Gato De Negocios wrote: »

So 8 points better off than last season, not massive improvement all things considered. Next season will tell a different story I fear. Chelsea have had a shyte manager for half the season and improved markedly when he was replaced. Liverpool have had a couple of injuries but showed signs of improvement towards the end and will have some of their key players back. Both will strengthen in the summer one would imagine. The EL final for us is massive, it may not be glamorous but its a chance for the team and manager to show they can perform when there is something at stake.

Hard to believe Liverpool have been so **** this season, losing 5 home games out of 6 in the new year and yet they finished just 5 points behind us and in 3rd place.

Cookiemunster

Pussyhands wrote: »

Hard to believe Liverpool have been so **** this season, losing 5 home games out of 6 in the new year and yet they finished just 5 points behind us and in 3rd place.

We both lost 6 home games. They actually ended with a slightly better home record than us.

ngunners

El Gato De Negocios wrote: »

So 8 points better off than last season, not massive improvement all things considered. Next season will tell a different story I fear. Chelsea have had a shyte manager for half the season and improved markedly when he was replaced. Liverpool have had a couple of injuries but showed signs of improvement towards the end and will have some of their key players back. Both will strengthen in the summer one would imagine. The EL final for us is massive, it may not be glamorous but its a chance for the team and manager to show they can perform when there is something at stake.

8 points better off might not seem a big improvement but compare it to other teams:

Liverpool -30
City +5
Chelsea +1
Leicester +4

This year of all years an 8 point improvement isn’t to be sniffed at.

StringerBell

Cookiemunster wrote: »

We had no preseason only had one midweek off all season. There was very little training ground coaching done this season. It was mainly match preparation and recovery from what I've read/heard online.

I agree that we need to see more from OGS on the coaching side, but the uniqueness of this season has to be taken into account.

You know what it's a fair point but I can't accept that set piece defending can't be worked on at some point and we have to look at the impact Tunchel has had on a team with even less time to prepare them, they look so much better drilled etc.

So I accept that it's a fair point but I'm not sure I weigh it as much as you maybe?

StringerBell

TRC10 wrote: »

Ole has improved players. Pogba has played his best football for the club under Ole. Shaw has gone from needing to be replaced, to the best LB in England. Lindelöf has come on hugely in the last 2 seasons. AWB has become much better going forward. Martial (although he had a bad season this season) had his best season last year. McTominay has come on as a player too.

But if you're expecting Ole to make Fred and McTominay a title winning midfield pairing then you have unrealistic expectations.

It's too late for me to get into this at this stage but I disagree with a lot of this both in premise and relevance.

Bullet points for time saving

Pogba - no, he's had his streaks before
Shaw - didn't need to be replaced but having genuine competition and being injury free has been great
Lindelof - has been improving since he came to the club
Martial - come on now
Mctominay - continued his trend upward

We now have better players in Bruno and Cavani to do something to win games which is an improvement in quality on what was there before. Two world class talents. I like what Ole has done with midfield actually somewhat in opposition to many, we do need to play with 2 number 8s I think when you go with Bruno and Rashford or even Pogba and Bruno in a team with a striker, and certainly with greenwood because no DM in the world is gonna be able to plug all those holes.

If we sign better players we will have better results, this is true for every manager in the world really no? The better managers can squeeze every ounce out of the tools they have. Has Ole done that? I'd say no, but of others think he has then so be it.

He has hit his targets this year, he will sign his new contract in the near future and hopefully can get over that mental block for himself and the team and win a trophy. I think it would be massive for both. Then hopefully we see real progress next season, from himself and the players.

Liam O

TRC10 wrote: »

Ole has improved players. Pogba has played his best football for the club under Ole. Shaw has gone from needing to be replaced, to the best LB in England. Lindelöf has come on hugely in the last 2 seasons. AWB has become much better going forward. Martial (although he had a bad season this season) had his best season last year. McTominay has come on as a player too.

But if you're expecting Ole to make Fred and McTominay a title winning midfield pairing then you have unrealistic expectations.

Pogba's best football was his first season before he gave up and in some cases actively sabotaged the team. If this is his best he's played I would have expected more goals than McTominay really. Bit sure most top teams have attacking midfielders who give away as many penalties a season as they score goals right? Playing safe 5 yard passes and actively hiding on the pitch shouldn't be rewarded.

United's best midfield of the last 5 years or so have been McT and Fred.

Can't say I've noticed AWB becoming better going forward and he has regressed hugely in defense imo.

Shaw never needed to be replaced but I think a lot of the praise he's getting is a bit over egged, using stats gained from taking free kicks and corners but he's definitely done well.

I think fans have really overrated certain players at times and fallen foul to a player is either great or terrible. As ever there is a middle ground and unfortunately in the cold light of day I see United remaining as a team fighting to get top 4 every season unless they get very lucky with youth players making a huge jump.

TRC10

StringerBell wrote: »

If we sign better players we will have better results, this is true for every manager in the world really no? The better managers can squeeze every ounce out of the tools they have. Has Ole done that? I'd say no, but of others think he has then so be it.

It's absolutely not. Look at Lampard at Chelsea for example.

Has Ole squeezed every last ounce out? Probably not, but he's squeezed out a lot more than I think many would.

Pussyhands

Liam O wrote: »

Pogba's best football was his first season before he gave up and in some cases actively sabotaged the team. If this is his best he's played I would have expected more goals than McTominay really. Bit sure most top teams have attacking midfielders who give away as many penalties a season as they score goals right? Playing safe 5 yard passes and actively hiding on the pitch shouldn't be rewarded.

United's best midfield of the last 5 years or so have been McT and Fred.

Can't say I've noticed AWB becoming better going forward and he has regressed hugely in defense imo.

Shaw never needed to be replaced but I think a lot of the praise he's getting is a bit over egged, using stats gained from taking free kicks and corners but he's definitely done well.

I think fans have really overrated certain players at times and fallen foul to a player is either great or terrible. As ever there is a middle ground and unfortunately in the cold light of day I see United remaining as a team fighting to get top 4 every season unless they get very lucky with youth players making a huge jump.

Ole has benefitted massively from players naturally improving with age.

Shaw was player of the year under Mourinho. I think missing the world cup and seeing England go onto the semis really pissed Shaw off and ensured he knuckled down and worked hard. He's 25 now. Ben Chilwell is 24...had he been at Utd since he was 18, with the spotlight on him he'd have been as inconsistent as Shaw.

Rashford and Martial were only late teems/early 20s under Mourinho. He's not the type to have these inconsistent players as starters but Mou was expected to play them all the time due to potential. Now they're 23/24/25, the time they naturally become more consistent Ole is seeing the rewards.

Look at Brandon Williams or Dan James...had good patches but can't be relied upon to start.

TRC10

Pussyhands wrote: »

Ole has benefitted massively from players naturally improving with age.

Shaw was player of the year under Mourinho. I think missing the world cup and seeing England go onto the semis really pissed Shaw off and ensured he knuckled down and worked hard. He's 25 now. Ben Chilwell is 24...had he been at Utd since he was 18, with the spotlight on him he'd have been as inconsistent as Shaw.

Rashford and Martial were only late teems/early 20s under Mourinho. He's not the type to have these inconsistent players as starters but Mou was expected to play them all the time due to potential. Now they're 23/24/25, the time they naturally become more consistent Ole is seeing the rewards.

Look at Brandon Williams or Dan James...had good patches but can't be relied upon to start.

Ole was manager for most of the season that Shaw won POTY.

So does Ole not get any credit for the improvement of players under 25?

Mitch Connor

TRC10 wrote: »

Ole was manager for most of the season that Shaw won POTY.

So does Ole not get any credit for the improvement of players under 25?

No, and he also gets blamed for Williams not progressing.

S.M.B.

I don't see how anyone could look at the Shaw situation over the past few years and come away with the conclusion that his recent good form is simply down to the aging process.

Has Ole's coaching skills taken a talentless Shaw and turned him into a PL TOTY contender? Probably not, let's not forget Shaw is still one of the most expensive teenagers in the history of world football and his underlying talent has been visible under previous managers.

Has Ole's man management skills helped an under achieving Shaw get to a place where he's a PL TOTY contender as he edges closer to his peak footballing years? Yes, I don't see how anyone can argue otherwise.

Dozyart

Maguire mentioned Shaw in his interview on Nevilles new Youtube channel:

"Luke’s belief, confidence, he has all the ability in the world. But I think the, the gaffer’s got to take a lot of credit for, for what he’s done to Luke and made him believe that he should be playing and he can go on to be one of the best left backs around."

Pussyhands

Dozyart wrote: »

Maguire mentioned Shaw in his interview on Nevilles new Youtube channel:

"Luke’s belief, confidence, he has all the ability in the world. But I think the, the gaffer’s got to take a lot of credit for, for what he’s done to Luke and made him believe that he should be playing and he can go on to be one of the best left backs around."

Player praises current manager shocker!

Luke Shaw while Mourinho was manager:

"He's been amazing. We all knew he was one of the most successful managers in the world, so it was pleasing for everyone to come here and work with him. It was good for me, too, with the tactics, training and the way he communicates. He definitely is one of the best in the world and it's a pleasure to work under him but it's enjoyable at the same time as being serious so long may it continue."

Pochettino, Koeman, LVG, Mourinho all had criticisms of Luke Shaws attitude. Yet Ole is the one who made him change his life? I don't think so.

As I have said, I think he saw England achieve a semi of a world cup and all the fan fare of that and he knew he could have been there if he had applied himself.

Luke Shaw:

England's Luke Shaw conceded watching the World Cup from afar provided the motivation he needed to grow up and start delivering on his potential for Manchester United.

As a result, he went away to do extra training in Dubai over the summer to get fit for the new campaign and impressed Mourinho in an otherwise troubled pre-season tour of the United States.

"I've matured, grown up. I've gone from a kid to a man now, and I know what I need to do to push myself. I want to play for Manchester United, to stay there and fight for my place, and prove my worth to the team," Shaw added.

He also had a kid in 2019.

I don't think it's a stretch to say Shaw's hard work to achieve his potential started under Mourinho. He was rock solid for a time with Mourinho, he was actually one of the only positives during Mourinhos final season..he was great in the pre season, then started great scoring the goal on the opening day v leicester and everyone was excited as we finally had a good left back.

Shaw signed a new 5 year contract in October 2018, before Ole was there so all the facts point to him turning it around before Ole came in.

Pussyhands

TRC10 wrote: »

Ole was manager for most of the season that Shaw won POTY.

So does Ole not get any credit for the improvement of players under 25?

Who was manager when Shaw signed a new 5 year contract on 180k per week in October 2018?

Mitch Connor

the zeal at which you want nothing from Ole to be worthy of acknowledgement or priase of Ole is laughable.

Dozyart

Pussyhands wrote: »

Player praises current manager shocker!

He didnt have say anything,wasnt asked a loaded question....but sure you know best!

TRC10

Pussyhands wrote: »

Who was manager when Shaw signed a new 5 year contract on 180k per week in October 2018?

Mourinho. Whats's your point?

Mourinho was also the manager when we signed Fred for £50m. It doesn't mean he saw Fred as the future of the club.

We also gave Phil Jones a 4 year contract a few months later. That doesn't mean Ole saw Jones as a key player.

Pussyhands

TRC10 wrote: »

Mourinho. Whats's your point?

That Shaw was beginning to turn things around before Ole, hence why he was rewarded with a 180k deal for 5 years.

Mitch Connor

Pussyhands wrote: »

That Shaw was beginning to turn things around before Ole, hence why he was rewarded with a 180k deal for 5 years.

Ha.

As if United haven't a history of giving 'assets' new contracts to protect their value.

Who was the manager when Rojo got a new contract? Was he impressing? Jose was delighted with him being a key CB for the club?

TRC10

Pussyhands wrote: »

That Shaw was beginning to turn things around before Ole, hence why he was rewarded with a 180k deal for 5 years.

Maybe he was. But him signing a contract doesn't prove that.

There's such a reluctance among some to give Ole even the slightest shred of credit. The start of the 18/19 season was nearly 3 years ago. So even if he had started to turn things around then, his performances and consistency this season have been by far the best we've seen from him before.

I say "Shaw has had by far the best season of his career this year, surely Ole deserves some credit?"

And you say "No, Shaw started to turn things around 3 years ago when England got knocked out of the World Cup, Ole has done nothing."

Pussyhands

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Ha.

As if United haven't a history of giving 'assets' new contracts to protect their value.

Who was the manager when Rojo got a new contract? Was he impressing? Jose was delighted with him being a key CB for the club?

Well Rojo was playing exceptionally when he got the ligament tear. He came back and played 10 games and got the contract...he most certainly wasn't in a multi year period of poor form where fans wanted him to leave, like Shaw.

I'm going to post some quotes from the announcement thread of his new contract. Many weren't happy with the salary but lots of comments about his good form.

https://www.reddit.com/r/reddevils/comments/9p9kob/luke_shaw_has_signed_a_new_fiveyear_contract_with/

I am, however, glad that he's got a new deal, and just hope he'll keep up the motivation he's displayed this season.

****ing hell. I wish I got a £60k a week raise for turning up for 3 months.

If he goes back to being **** and overweight after this I can’t even imagine the pelters he and the club are going to get.

he peformance Shaw gave us this season is easily top LB and one of LBs in league.

Okay so 4 good months of football in four years = 160k

Let's try and look at this on the brightside.

Let's say he's truly turned a corner and will knuckle down and play great from here on out. It's a fine deal. We've done ok business. We've sorted our LB for a good few years.

Sorry to disappoint people who think Shaw was poor in the months up to Mourinhos sacking, but he was excellent for those few months.

Nalz

How long has Phil Jones got left on his cashtract?

Mitch Connor

Nalz wrote: »

How long has Phil Jones got left on his cashtract?

Jones is actually due a testimonial he has been at the club so long. he has refused it though, as he is embarassed about it.

El Gato De Negocios

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Jones is actually due a testimonial he has been at the club so long. he has refused it though, as he is embarassed about it.

At least he has the wherewithal to decline it on moral grounds. I think he should just have it anyway but then gift all proceeds to local charities.

mamax

El Gato De Negocios wrote: »

At least he has the wherewithal to decline it on moral grounds. I think he should just have it anyway but then gift all proceeds to local charities.

Or to his medical team for future bills 😷

adox

Shaw was diabolical under Jose. did Jose even publicly say he more or less had to tell Shaw what to do during a game?

Its been an astonishing turnaround in his form under Ole.

Its ok to admit that and still not rank Ole as a manager overall.

To say it is age related is laughable. Shaw was a great player when he was very young ffs.

Your Airbag

adox wrote: »

Shaw was diabolical under Jose. did Jose even publicly say he more or less had to tell Shaw what to do during a game?

Its been an astonishing turnaround in his form under Ole.

Its ok to admit that and still not rank Ole as a manager overall.

To say it is age related is laughable. Shaw was a great player when he was very young ffs.

Jose publicly questioned Shaw's intelligence and gave him special treatment by standing on the sideline and shouting instructions to Shaw, even pointing to where he should run in one game. He clearly singled him out and at times it was border line bullying.

Shaw looked like our best player at times this season, he never came close to looking as good as that previously. Big credit to Shaw for the turn around and Ole for helping him get there.

StringerBell

As is the way with most things I think everything went into it.

I think Jose and Shaw have remained on good terms since Jose's leaving and he has spoken highly of him and his aid to his development, particularly mentally. How he approached the sport.

I think Shaw himself has also matured and has become more confident in himself, and his ability to stay injury free and give his all instead of making being a bit hesitant at times.

I think Ole did brilliantly to continue to nurture that self belief and also to respond to Shaw's demands for players to be signed to improve the squad by bringing in a left back and directly laying down the challenge to him and how Shaw responded to that.

Maybe there is no bad in the situation for a change eh?

Pussyhands

adox wrote: »

Shaw was diabolical under Jose. did Jose even publicly say he more or less had to tell Shaw what to do during a game?

Its been an astonishing turnaround in his form under Ole.

Its ok to admit that and still not rank Ole as a manager overall.

To say it is age related is laughable. Shaw was a great player when he was very young ffs.

Shaw had months of good form in the 18/19 season before Jose got sacked.

There's a reason Shaw got POTY...

Whatsisname

Maguire in the travelling squad to Gdańsk.

billyhead

Whatsisname wrote: »

Maguire in the travelling squad to Gdańsk.

He's to be assessed tomorrow I think or Wednesday morning. Ole is not confident that he'll be fit.

Lithium93_

billyhead wrote: »

He's to be assessed tomorrow I think or Wednesday morning. Ole is not confident that he'll be fit.

He's been given until Wednesday according to the United app. But I can't see him making it, so more than likely it'll be Axel Tuanzebe deputizing in his absence. Bruno Fernandes probably be the one leading United out one last time this season.

KH25

Can’t see Maguire making it Wednesday. I reckon Matic may start to give the back 4 some extra protection.

TRC10

KH25 wrote: »

Can’t see Maguire making it Wednesday. I reckon Matic may start to give the back 4 some extra protection.

That's what Fred and McTominay's job has been all season. I'd be very surprised if it's not them that start.

DM_7

Pussyhands wrote: »

Shaw was player of the year under Mourinho. I think missing the world cup and seeing England go onto the semis really pissed Shaw off and ensured he knuckled down and worked hard. He's 25 now. Ben Chilwell is 24...had he been at Utd since he was 18, with the spotlight on him he'd have been as inconsistent as Shaw.

Pussyhands wrote: »

That Shaw was beginning to turn things around before Ole, hence why he was rewarded with a 180k deal for 5 years.

Pussyhands wrote: »

Who was manager when Shaw signed a new 5 year contract on 180k per week in October 2018?

Pussyhands wrote: »

Sorry to disappoint people who think Shaw was poor in the months up to Mourinhos sacking, but he was excellent for those few months.

Pussyhands wrote: »

Shaw had months of good form in the 18/19 season before Jose got sacked.

There's a reason Shaw got POTY...

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056320446

MOD: You are welcome to have an opinion and your opinion on Ole is loud and clear.

You are not welcome to keep making the same point over and over again to figuratively shout down the views of others. It is a disruptive way to post. Please see the charter and extract below

you should be prepared to argue cogently and coherently in support of your argument. Repeating the same point over and over again without addressing counter arguments is not advisable.

Whatsisname

KH25 wrote: »

Can’t see Maguire making it Wednesday. I reckon Matic may start to give the back 4 some extra protection.

Wolves are blunt upfront but he helped Tuanzebe and Bailly out and we didn’t look so frantic at the back like we have in recent weeks. I think I’d have preferred him starting on Wednesday over Fred or McT but he won’t start after playing at the weekend. I don’t think we need both of them against Villarreal, we really should be taking the game to them.

Mitch Connor

Will be interesting to see who misses out - my assumption is greenwood.

De Gea, AWB, lindelof, Bailly, Shaw, McT, Fred, Pogba, Bruno, Rashford, Cavani.

Greenwood or Matic for Fred on 65mins or so depending what way the game is going.

S.M.B.

I don't think Matic will start Wednesday but I would like to think that this is the last outting of the McFred double pivot in such a high profile game.

I really do hope we invest in that specialist DM role over the summer. DvdB's performance was also encouraging enough to make me think that he does have a role to play going forward at United but to me the key is having that DM in there at the base of our midfield.

Whatsisname

[url]

https://twitter.com/manutd/status/1396910370011455491?s=21[/url]

billyhead

S.M.B. wrote: »

I don't think Matic will start Wednesday but I would like to think that this is the last outting of the McFred double pivot in such a high profile game.

I really do hope we invest in that specialist DM role over the summer. DvdB's performance was also encouraging enough to make me think that he does have a role to play going forward at United but to me the key is having that DM in there at the base of our midfield.

It's more important than getting a RW imo.

xtal191

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Will be interesting to see who misses out - my assumption is greenwood.

De Gea, AWB, lindelof, Bailly, Shaw, McT, Fred, Pogba, Bruno, Rashford, Cavani.

Greenwood or Matic for Fred on 65mins or so depending what way the game is going.

Agree with that although I have a feeling Henderson will start

Mitch Connor

xtal191 wrote: »

Agree with that although I have a feeling Henderson will start

I've no idea really, De Gea became the euopa keeper when henderson became 'first choice', but De Gea playing vs Fulham and Henderson vs Wolves.... no idea.

TRC10

Mitch Connor wrote: »

I've no idea really, De Gea became the euopa keeper when henderson became 'first choice', but De Gea playing vs Fulham and Henderson vs Wolves.... no idea.

I'm 99.9% sure it will be De Gea. I've a feeling Henderson started playing the league games when top 4 looked nailed on to either get him ready to take over as number 1 next season, or to increase his value for a sale. It could also have been Ole giving him a chance to play his way into the England team for the summer. I do think De Gea is probably still regarded as the no.1 and the fact that he's been the europa league goalkeeper points to him starting.

Liam O

billyhead wrote: »

It's more important than getting a RW imo.

Scoring more goals in close games or on off days against the smaller is the most important thing to address. It's not a DM problem. It's a new top striker and RW problem. They're playing Pogba as a weird withdrawn Mezzala instead of playing the team's best attacker in his best position. Hugely important to have a threat on the right.

The need for more options up front is by FAR the biggest issue with the squad.

EltonJohn69

Matic starting would make me very worried...

Pussyhands

De Gea deserves to start. He carried us in our darkest years and deserves to play in a European final for once.