Manchester United Teamtalk/Transfer/Gossip 23/24 - [New Thread Available]

TRC10

Liam O wrote: »

Scoring more goals in close games or on off days against the smaller is the most important thing to address. It's not a DM problem. It's a new top striker and RW problem. They're playing Pogba as a weird withdrawn Mezzala instead of playing the team's best attacker in his best position. Hugely important to have a threat on the right.

The need for more options up front is by FAR the biggest issue with the squad.

But it is a DM problem. A Rodri/Fabinho level DM greatly improves our attack. Our attack is limited at the moment because we're having to play McFred as a double pivot, who in transition, aren't very good. Having an anchorman as a sigle pivot would allow Bruno and Pogba to play together like Silva and De Bruyne, or Xavi and Iniesta, meaning we can get Rashford in his best position, Martial or Edi up top and Mason (or potentially Sancho) on the right. A quality DM hugely improves our attack.

~Rebel~

TRC10 wrote: »

But it is a DM problem. A Rodri/Fabinho level DM greatly improves our attack. Our attack is limited at the moment because we're having to play McFred, who in transition, aren't very good. Having an anchorman at DM would allow Bruno and Pogba to play together like Silva and De Bruyne, or Xavi and Iniesta, meaning we can get Rashford in his best position, Martial or Edi up top and Mason (or potentially Sancho) on the right. A quality DM hugely improves our attack.

Another good example of this is Fabinho at Liverpool this season. Him being shifted into DM from CB made the whole team - and attack - play much better.

Pussyhands

TRC10 wrote: »

But it is a DM problem. A Rodri/Fabinho level DM greatly improves our attack. Our attack is limited at the moment because we're having to play McFred, who in transition, aren't very good. Having an anchorman at DM would allow Bruno and Pogba to play together like Silva and De Bruyne, or Xavi and Iniesta, meaning we can get Rashford in his best position, Martial or Edi up top and Mason (or potentially Sancho) on the right. A quality DM hugely improves our attack.

We've heard the "unlocking" Pogba thing for how many years now? Time to accept he can't play in a midfield 2. He was played with peak Matic and he wasn't good enough.

TRC10

Pussyhands wrote: »

We've heard the "unlocking" Pogba thing for how many years now? Time to accept he can't play in a midfield 2. He was played with peak Matic and he wasn't good enough.

When did I say in a 2? I said in a 3 with Bruno and a quality DM.

His best form for United was when he played under Ole in a midfield 3 with a younger Matic and Herrera.

But Herrera then left, Pogba got injured, and Matic's legs eventually went.

Pussyhands

TRC10 wrote: »

His best form for United was when he played under Ole in a midfield 3 with a younger Matic and Herrera.

But Herrera then left, Pogba got injured, and Matic's legs eventually went.

Yes, Matic and Herrera behind him. Bruno has to be the most advanced of a 3 like he is today.

We're seeing Ole sacrafice Rashford on the left to fit Pogba in the big games.

I'm curious actually to see who Ole starts with.

Cavani starts obviously, but if you play Bruno, then he needs to play Pogba in a two because shifting Rashford to the right to fit in Pogba on the left doesn't work.

I think he'll go for Pogba in a two with McTominay though. Greenwood is in too good a form to bench him.

Liam O

TRC10 wrote: »

But it is a DM problem. A Rodri/Fabinho level DM greatly improves our attack. Our attack is limited at the moment because we're having to play McFred as a double pivot, who in transition, aren't very good. Having an anchorman as a sigle pivot would allow Bruno and Pogba to play together like Silva and De Bruyne, or Xavi and Iniesta, meaning we can get Rashford in his best position, Martial or Edi up top and Mason (or potentially Sancho) on the right. A quality DM hugely improves our attack.

Yeah, change the formation to get the best out of Pogba. That works.

It's hilarious that there are fans who actually think that he is anywhere near the level of any of those players you've named. McTominay has been better than him for United the last 3 years and yet there are still excuses made for him just needing the formation to be changed yet again. Sure you'd have to sign Matuidi to play left wing if you are playing Pogba in midfield. KDB is so much better than Pogba it's actually a joke.

Martial will never be a top striker. Another that people excuse while others who actually work hard for the cause are shunned at the earliest opportunity. He must be laughing his head off at being paid what he is while never contributing a top level season. He'd not make City's squad.

Liam O

TRC10 wrote: »

When did I say in a 2? I said in a 3 with Bruno and a quality DM.

His best form for United was when he played under Ole in a midfield 3 with a younger Matic and Herrera.

But Herrera then left, Pogba got injured, and Matic's legs eventually went.

Who's this DM who's going to unlock him and doesn't play beside another hard working midfielder at the moment?

Pussyhands

Liam O wrote: »

Who's this DM who's going to unlock him and doesn't play beside another hard working midfielder at the moment?

Once you get 10 world class players around Pogba he will be good, I guarantee it!!!

Mitch Connor

Pussyhands wrote: »

We've heard the "unlocking" Pogba thing for how many years now? Time to accept he can't play in a midfield 2. He was played with peak Matic and he wasn't good enough.

so try VDB in there. try something other than two players who are both poor creatively.

Lord TSC

Not sure if this was posted...

[Mike McGrath, Telegraph] Man Utd players lobby for Jack Grealish signing but Ole Gunnar Solskjaer wants Jadon Sancho as transfer priority

Sancho, 21, is expected to be allowed to leave Dortmund in the next window for around £75million

Grealish is also admired at Old Trafford, where players who have faced him or played with him at England privately consider him to be an appealing summer signing. The Aston Villa forward would command a fee similar to Sancho, with the Dortmund player thought to be Solskjaer's preference.

He has other clubs across Europe looking at his situation following his rise at Westfalenstadion

TRC10

Liam O wrote: »

Yeah, change the formation to get the best out of Pogba. That works.

It's hilarious that there are fans who actually think that he is anywhere near the level of any of those players you've named. McTominay has been better than him for United the last 3 years and yet there are still excuses made for him just needing the formation to be changed yet again. Sure you'd have to sign Matuidi to play left wing if you are playing Pogba in midfield. KDB is so much better than Pogba it's actually a joke.

I don't believe I ever said he was as good as them.

And you're strawmaning. I never said the formation needs to be changed to suit Pogba. I was responding to a post that said we need to sign more attackers to improve our attack. And I said a Fabinho/Rodri level DM improves our attack. There's no reason a midfield 3 of Pogba, Bruno and a world class DM behind them couldn't work against the mid/low table clubs. By all means play a double pivot v the top teams.

You brought up the whole "getting the best out of Pogba" thing. I'd have no issue if Pogba got sold. I just don't have a weird obsession with bashing him at every oppurtunity.

GSPfan

Wonder can we do a Pogba / Varane swap this Summer. It gives both sides the ability to say they got the best deal for a player running down a contract.

I’d throw 60 million at West Ham for Rice or throw 40 million at Brighton for Bissouma. Either one would improve our midfield massively.

Sell Lingard for 30 million and sell Matic for 5 million, you’ve solved the CB and CDM problem for a net spend of between 5 to 25 million.

Promote Mejbri as the Bruno understudy and play Donny beside Rice or Bissouma.

Finally….. just buy Sancho and be done with it.

All in all you have a Summer net spend of around 100 million. That’s even before you sell one of the keepers.

Hococop

Lord TSC wrote: »

Not sure if this was posted...

[Mike McGrath, Telegraph] Man Utd players lobby for Jack Grealish signing but Ole Gunnar Solskjaer wants Jadon Sancho as transfer priority

Sancho, 21, is expected to be allowed to leave Dortmund in the next window for around £75million

Grealish is also admired at Old Trafford, where players who have faced him or played with him at England privately consider him to be an appealing summer signing. The Aston Villa forward would command a fee similar to Sancho, with the Dortmund player thought to be Solskjaer's preference.

He has other clubs across Europe looking at his situation following his rise at Westfalenstadion

Feel like £60 million is the mark

TRC10

GSPfan wrote: »

Wonder can we do a Pogba / Varane swap this Summer. It gives both sides the ability to say they got the best deal for a player running down a contract.

I’d throw 60 million at West Ham for Rice or throw 40 million at Brighton for Bissouma. Either one would improve our midfield massively.

Sell Lingard for 30 million and sell Matic for 5 million, you’ve solved the CB and CDM problem for a net spend of between 5 to 25 million.

Promote Mejbri as the Bruno understudy and play Donny beside Rice or Bissouma.

Finally….. just buy Sancho and be done with it.

All in all you have a Summer net spend of around 100 million. That’s even before you sell one of the keepers.

This all makes too much sense for our board to even consider it.

Mitch Connor

Don't think 60m would get either player.

GSPfan

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Don't think 60m would get either player.

If you mean Rice and Bissouma?

West Ham don’t really do business like Spurs. They will sell for a good price. Maybe it’d be north of 60 but seriously if you can buy Sancho for 80 then how is Rice more than 60.

Bissouma will go for a maximum of 50 million. I’ve seen most rumours price him at the 40 mark.

Edit: Maybe you meant Grealish.

TRC10

GSPfan wrote: »

If you mean Rice and Bissouma?

West Ham don’t really do business like Spurs. They will sell for a good price. Maybe it’d be north of 60 but seriously if you can buy Sancho for 80 then how is Rice more than 60.

Bissouma will go for a maximum of 50 million. I’ve seen most rumours price him at the 40 mark.

I'd be surprised if Brighton turned their nose up at £40m for a defensive midfielder

GSPfan

Biggest problem with Bissouma is that it seems he’s an Arsenal fan and also that Liverpool are sniffing around. So we don’t seem like we’re in the frame.

Rice would love to be back with Chelsea so between that and the price it seems unlikely.

If only our scouts could pull something out of the bag.

larchielads

Peoples thoughts on Bamford? Reckon he could score more goals for utd than he would in that leeds team?

ShooterSF

On the topic of Phil Jones I wish he had his testimonial and that fans showed the guy some respect, I know he's been a crock, but hardly by choice. The guy's attitude on the pitch always reminded me of Vida, he just lacked either the technical or physical ability (including staying fit) to match it but he always played (when he did) like one of those players that would put his head where others wouldn't put their feet. He's never made any waves in the press and I've never seen a bad word about the guy's personality.

TRC10

ShooterSF wrote: »

On the topic of Phil Jones I wish he had his testimonial and that fans showed the guy some respect, I know he's been a crock, but hardly by choice. The guy's attitude on the pitch always reminded me of Vida, he just lacked either the technical or physical ability (including staying fit) to match it but he always played (when he did) like one of those players that would put his head where others wouldn't put their feet. He's never made any waves in the press and I've never seen a bad word about the guy's personality.

Fergie's biggest achievement was going to the Bernabeu with Jones in midfield and coming away with a 1-1 draw.

jimmytwotimes 2013

TRC10 wrote: »

Fergie's biggest achievement was going to the Bernabeu with Jones in midfield and coming away with a 1-1 draw.

Not all great achievements get trophies.

Drumpot

Is sancho actually 80mil good? Is nobody concerned he might struggle to bring whatever form he has shown in the Bundesliga to the EPL?

I see some rag suggesting that Ole wants Sancho but the players want Grealish. Who makes this sh*t up?

Honestly how can anybody say with certainty who Ole wants other then the manager? And let’s say the club is still making at least some of its own signings regardless of manager (like it always has done), what’s to say Ole isn’t towing the line and agreeing with club targets publically so he can get the signings he wants in other areas?

Pussyhands

Drumpot wrote: »

Is sancho actually 80mil good? Is nobody concerned he might struggle to bring whatever form he has shown in the Bundesliga to the EPL?

I see some rag suggesting that Ole wants Sancho but the players want Grealish. Who makes this sh*t up?

Honestly how can anybody say with certainty who Ole wants other then the manager? And let’s say the club is still making at least some of its own signings regardless of manager (like it always has done), what’s to say Ole isn’t towing the line and agreeing with club targets publically so he can get the signings he wants in other areas?

What players are you thinking of here?

I think every manager we have had has had the say in the players we sign.

As for Sancho, haven't seen enough of him to say that but I do know from reading about him that his best position is LW. I would prefer a left footer on the right.

Drumpot

Pussyhands wrote: »

What players are you thinking of here?

I think every manager we have had has had the say in the players we sign.

I think every manager we have had has had to compromise at times. When signings were made, regardless of whether the manager wanted or identified them, the manager didn’t challange it publicly (except maybe jose).

This has been discussed to death in here, there’s plenty of examples of players signed over the years where it wasn’t clear how hungry a manager was for a certain signing.

The game isn’t run like football manager like some think. A manager doesn’t say “I want Sancho and rice” and it happens. They have to compromise and yes they do have input (different levels of input) but ultimately the whatever structure is in the club will determine who they get. This includes if you get your top target for a position or your 5th choice for a position, something LVG alluded to that United regularly got a player well down their list of priorities.

I don’t get “Ole wanted this player” comments. A managers primary job is to manage the players they are given. Not sign players or identify players to sign or agree contracts, to manage the players the club make available. It’s one reason that’s allowed some fans to excuse the terrible mis management of the squad , by blaming managers who don’t have control over who is signed or whose contracts are extended. The club decides its transfer policy and the parameters (financial and traits like age etc) of players it will target.

dave_o_brien

ShooterSF wrote: »

On the topic of Phil Jones I wish he had his testimonial and that fans showed the guy some respect, I know he's been a crock, but hardly by choice. The guy's attitude on the pitch always reminded me of Vida, he just lacked either the technical or physical ability (including staying fit) to match it but he always played (when he did) like one of those players that would put his head where others wouldn't put their feet. He's never made any waves in the press and I've never seen a bad word about the guy's personality.

Just to add to this; he's actually a very good footballer too when he's had a period of fitness. When we signed him initially I was very excited to see how he developed; he kind of reminded me of Hierro - tough, solid defender with the ability to push on and play ball. As you say, his injury profile is not his choice and I reckon the amount of ridiculous meme's has also damaged his confidence (similar to what happened to Chadwick) - it's easy to freeze frame people playing any sport at a moment when their face is a bit distorted and to slag someone off about it is just pathetic. It's disappointing for someone who seems like a decent person.

Pussyhands

Drumpot wrote: »

I think every manager we have had has had to compromise at times. When signings were made, regardless of whether the manager wanted or identified them, the manager didn’t challange it publicly (except maybe jose).

This has been discussed to death in here, there’s plenty of examples of players signed over the years where it wasn’t clear how hungry a manager was for a certain signing.

The game isn’t run like football manager like some think. A manager doesn’t say “I want Sancho and rice” and it happens. They have to compromise and yes they do have input (different levels of input) but ultimately the whatever structure is in the club will determine who they get. This includes if you get your top target for a position or your 5th choice for a position, something LVG alluded to that United regularly got a player well down their list of priorities.

I don’t get “Ole wanted this player” comments. A managers primary job is to manage the players they are given. Not sign players or identify players to sign or agree contracts, to manage the players the club make available. It’s one reason that’s allowed some fans to excuse the terrible mis management of the squad , by blaming managers who don’t have control over who is signed or whose contracts are extended.

Of course they have to compromise...LVG wanted Muller, Moyes wanted Bale, Mourinho wanted Peresic..not every player we want is possible to sign.

Klopp wanted Brandt, not Salah yet look how that turned out.

Drumpot

Pussyhands wrote: »

Of course they have to compromise...LVG wanted Muller, Moyes wanted Bale, Mourinho wanted Peresic..not every player we want is possible to sign.

So then you agree with the sentiments, managers may have some input but they don’t decide who the club signs.

PARlance

Drumpot wrote: »

Is sancho actually 80mil good? Is nobody concerned he might struggle to bring whatever form he has shown in the Bundesliga to the EPL?

I see some rag suggesting that Ole wants Sancho but the players want Grealish. Who makes this sh*t up?

Honestly how can anybody say with certainty who Ole wants other then the manager? And let’s say the club is still making at least some of its own signings regardless of manager (like it always has done), what’s to say Ole isn’t towing the line and agreeing with club targets publically so he can get the signings he wants in other areas?

Could very well be a case of a Werner or Havertz... They might come good but it'll be a while until they're reaching the same level of stats in the PL. The BL isn't the same standard and it's a good league to be an attacking player.

If Greenwood was playing in Germany, I'm fairly sure we'd be looking at a 100m price tag for him.

I think Greenwood has/can continue to solve our problem on the right for a couple of years. I'm also very excited about the prospect of Amad as well. Finding a RB who can get forward without falling over himself would be more of a priority for me.

Spend the Sancho money elsewhere imo.

Drumpot

PARlance wrote: »

Could very well be a case of a Werner or Havertz... They might come good but it'll be a while until they're reaching the same level of stats in the PL. The BL isn't the same standard and it's a good league to be an attacking player.

If Greenwood was playing in Germany, I'm fairly sure we'd be looking at a 100m price tag for him.

I think Greenwood has/can continue to solve our problem on the right for a couple of years. I'm also very excited about the prospect of Amad as well. Finding a RB who can get forward without falling over himself would be more of a priority for me.

Spend the Sancho money elsewhere imo.

What positions would you prioritize?

CB, CDM and striker/RW?

We may get away with the CB position. If we could sign nobody else but a Kante level CDM I’d be happy with that. Asides from rice I’m not overly familiar with good players in that position (ndidi?). Up front I know we are crying out for a RW but as you say maybe we could get by with Greenwood? I feel like we need another striker of Cavani quality to rotate in and out with him.

Drumpot

Monserrat Rotten Parrot wrote: »

seriously think that side is fine at cb for now. cdm and rw are massive holes. cavani fills the void at striker til next summer, should have a better feel of where greenwood is then and what to do with either a starter or a backup there.
thing with sancho is hes been phenomenal in germany and i think the 80mil overtime would turn out to be good value but what does that do to Diallos progress? I took it himself and pellestri were gambles , diallo less so, in the hope theyd be cheaper alternatives to sancho. I cant read what'll happen with that situation tbh.

Good point.

I suppose if I tried to over simplify the issues this year, getting an explosive forward (striker or RW) may be a better strategy. Think of the games we lost or drew where a goal would of probably led to a win. So many games we left behind , particularly ones that were winnable.

Pussyhands

Drumpot wrote: »

So then you agree with the sentiments, managers may have some input but they don’t decide who the club signs.

Yeah, but no manager gets every single no.1 target.

Pep didn't get Alexis

Pep didn't get Fred

Pep didn't get Jorginho

Mitch Connor

Drumpot wrote: »

I think every manager we have had has had to compromise at times. When signings were made, regardless of whether the manager wanted or identified them, the manager didn’t challange it publicly (except maybe jose).

This has been discussed to death in here, there’s plenty of examples of players signed over the years where it wasn’t clear how hungry a manager was for a certain signing.

The game isn’t run like football manager like some think. A manager doesn’t say “I want Sancho and rice” and it happens. They have to compromise and yes they do have input (different levels of input) but ultimately the whatever structure is in the club will determine who they get. This includes if you get your top target for a position or your 5th choice for a position, something LVG alluded to that United regularly got a player well down their list of priorities.

I don’t get “Ole wanted this player” comments. A managers primary job is to manage the players they are given. Not sign players or identify players to sign or agree contracts, to manage the players the club make available. It’s one reason that’s allowed some fans to excuse the terrible mis management of the squad , by blaming managers who don’t have control over who is signed or whose contracts are extended. The club decides its transfer policy and the parameters (financial and traits like age etc) of players it will target.

this feels like two different arguments you are making though.

You initial comment was:

And let’s say the club is still making at least some of its own signings regardless of manager

1. Club signing its own players = zero manager input. Manager doesn't matter.
2. Club signing a 3rd or 4th choice = manager input. Manager does matter.

Your initial comment doesn't give scope to a signing being 3rd of the manager in the position the manager wanted to sign in.

Maybe Ole wanted Sergio Reguilan, but the deal wasn't right for the club and they fell back to Telles. Ole got the LB backup he wanted, but not first choice target. That does not make telles as player signed regardless of the manager.

On the flip side, someone like Amad, or Pellestri, or Hannibal, could have been signings the club made without managerial direction - young players for the future, identified by the scounting department, signed (in effect) for the youth system with the hope they come through. It is very arguable that the club would have looked to sign these players regardless of the manager.

Going further back, I would say Mata was a club signing - a top level player, with a name, at a time the club needed to do something. I can't see how Moyes wanted him, as he never fit into the team with Moyes, we never had a proper role for him and we were struggling to fit him in (and continued to do so)

Drumpot

Mitch Connor wrote: »

this feels like two different arguments you are making though.

You initial comment was:

And let’s say the club is still making at least some of its own signings regardless of manager

1. Club signing its own players = zero manager input. Manager doesn't matter.
2. Club signing a 3rd or 4th choice = manager input. Manager does matter.

Your initial comment doesn't give scope to a signing being 3rd of the manager in the position the manager wanted to sign in.

Maybe Ole wanted Sergio Reguilan, but the deal wasn't right for the club and they fell back to Telles. Ole got the LB backup he wanted, but not first choice target. That does not make telles as player signed regardless of the manager.

On the flip side, someone like Amad, or Pellestri, or Hannibal, could have been signings the club made without managerial direction - young players for the future, identified by the scounting department, signed (in effect) for the youth system with the hope they come through. It is very arguable that the club would have looked to sign these players regardless of the manager.

Going further back, I would say Mata was a club signing - a top level player, with a name, at a time the club needed to do something. I can't see how Moyes wanted him, as he never fit into the team with Moyes, we never had a proper role for him and we were struggling to fit him in (and continued to do so)

The point I was making was that it’s never clear how much input and influence a manager has in a signing made. I refute any “Ole wants x” type comments that are unverifiable. The signings made by United have different levels of input from managers and its not always clear how much because managers will tow the line publicly, certainly while they are at the club.

Calling a player “An Ole signing” is flawed when it’s assuming a player that’s signed when Ole is manager is automatically one who the manager identified or requests. We needed a CB under Jose, I wouldn’t class maguire “an Ole signing” so much as a player signed when Ole was manager. , he’s a quality player the squad needed , that was signed when he was manager. Similarly with Bruno, a player identified long before Ole arrived. What manager would refuse those sort of signings?

Some of the contract extensions done over the years look more like they have been all about retaining a higher squad value on paper, as opposed to retaining players any manager would want. Cheaper to extend contracts then buy new players, particularly when the club has been terrible at getting value for money in transfers. This has led to concurrent mangers stuck with disjointed squads , lacking in some positions and stuck with poor squad options.

Zlatan and matic, probably the most obvious Jose signings who he probably hand picked. Generally speaking I can’t think of too many obvious signings (maybe the Dutch lads under LVG) that the managers actually chose.

Zeek12

Drumpot wrote: »

Is sancho actually 80mil good? Is nobody concerned he might struggle to bring whatever form he has shown in the Bundesliga to the EPL?

I see some rag suggesting that Ole wants Sancho but the players want Grealish. Who makes this sh*t up?

I would have the same question.

As someone who doesn't watch much Bundesliga, I'm wondering will he be worth this outlay, considering Greenwood has made good strides at RW already and will surely get better?

Previous acquisitions from Dortmund who excelled in that league found the transition to the PL challenging (Sancho is however still young which is in his favour).

Spending £70-80M on Sancho will likely be to the detriment of strengthening DM and CB with quality players this year.
Unless the club change their transfer policy of recent years and go "all out" on recruitment this summer - but that's fairly unlikely.

PARlance

Drumpot wrote: »

What positions would you prioritize?

CB, CDM and striker/RW?

We may get away with the CB position. If we could sign nobody else but a Kante level CDM I’d be happy with that. Asides from rice I’m not overly familiar with good players in that position (ndidi?). Up front I know we are crying out for a RW but as you say maybe we could get by with Greenwood? I feel like we need another striker of Cavani quality to rotate in and out with him.

RB, CDM and Striker would be my top 3 if we're looking to really challenge. I'd add a CB if it could stretch to a 4th.

Looking at our squad

GKs: Good enough to challenge
LBs: Good enough to challenge
CBs: Just about good enough to challenge.
RB: Miles off, AWB is one of the best 1v1 defenders out there but his positional sense defensively and his attacking play is way below where it needs to be. I don't see Williams as much of cover, all heart but not good enough. We need a serious signing to compete/rotate for this spot.

CDMs: Not good enough, McTom and Fred are fine squad players and I wouldn't mind keeping both but neither is top level.

AM: Bruno, more than good enough. Would be nice to see some cover emerge. Doesn't look like it will be Donny but worth another year to see if he can.

WL: Good enough to challenge
CF: Cavani is top quality, Martial isn't. Cavani can't play full season so another striker is needed.
RW: Work in progress but Greenwood and Amad may be good enough.

We're not going to go nuts this window. If we look at previous ones and could expect a bit of a Goldilocks summer (1 big, 1 medium, 1 small) then I would think something like Kane, Bissouma and Lamptey go some distance to getting us challenging.

I wouldn't be married to either one of those but if you allow for the sale of Martial and Lingard, you're looking at a net spend of about 100m.

(Signing Sancho and using Greenwood and Cavani as strikers could easily work as well but I don't think it has an immediate impact. Sancho may take time to adjust, Greenwood is probably a few years off leading the line)

Liam O

If Greenwood gets injured then you're either left with Amad, who wasn't played RW the other day or Dan James as the options to avoid Rashford playing there.

Let's say Mahrez, who's better than Greenwood, gets injured for City. Bernardo can play there, he's better than Greenwood. Sterling can play there, he's better than Greenwood. Foden can play there, better than Greenwood. Torres can come in if the above are all out and is probably as good as Greenwood. Heck even KDB has been needed there at times for them and that's with all of the above being able to play there.

Now if the above doesn't show the need for at least 2 attackers, just watch the games that United dropped points against terrible PL teams this season. Head in the sand stuff to think the options up front are even close to being good enough to tie them over for another season.

Zeek12

I don't think anyone is saying what we have up top 100% matches what City have.

The discussion is a bit more nuanced that that.

How likely is it the club will "do a Chelsea or a City" and bring in 3-4 top quality players in one window? Hard to see it happening.

The fragility of our defence and our over reliance on the McFred double pivot are big issues that are really difficult to overlook.
The lack of another option at RB is also a concern - which also adds to the issues on the right side.

Maybe we can find a way to address all this in the summer. But we'll really need to get good prices on Martial and Lingard which is easier said than done.
And leaving Cavani as the only real No.9 will bring it's own challenges.

PARlance

Liam O wrote: »

If Greenwood gets injured then you're either left with Amad, who wasn't played RW the other day or Dan James as the options to avoid Rashford playing there.

Let's say Mahrez, who's better than Greenwood, gets injured for City. Bernardo can play there, he's better than Greenwood. Sterling can play there, he's better than Greenwood. Foden can play there, better than Greenwood. Torres can come in if the above are all out and is probably as good as Greenwood. Heck even KDB has been needed there at times for them and that's with all of the above being able to play there.

Now if the above doesn't show the need for at least 2 attackers, just watch the games that United dropped points against terrible PL teams this season. Head in the sand stuff to think the options up front are even close to being good enough to tie them over for another season.

Nobody is going to match City's strength in depth anytime soon.

Liverpool won a league with Shaqiri and Origi as backup attacking options. (And iirc Rashford, Martial and Greenwood outscored their front 3 that season).

All_in_Flynn

Drumpot wrote: »

Is sancho actually 80mil good? Is nobody concerned he might struggle to bring whatever form he has shown in the Bundesliga to the EPL?

I see some rag suggesting that Ole wants Sancho but the players want Grealish. Who makes this sh*t up?

Honestly how can anybody say with certainty who Ole wants other then the manager? And let’s say the club is still making at least some of its own signings regardless of manager (like it always has done), what’s to say Ole isn’t towing the line and agreeing with club targets publically so he can get the signings he wants in other areas?

I'm personally not sold on Sancho myself even though I argued previously for his signing last summer. He does tick a lot of boxes though. I really feel a natural right winger and DM would fix a lot of problems for us. Teams still find it too easy to push us to areas of the pitch they want us in with the ball.

I've also argued previously against Grealish but he has impressed me this season. I still have doubts about his personality but he is supremely talented. He plays in an area where we are stacked though. He feels like a player that Fergie would be doing everything he could to sign however.

Declan Rice should be our main target of the summer. I like everything about him as a player. Serious engine, can take the ball in tight spaces and reads the game really well. I do like Bissouma too but if I had a choice I'd take Rice.

DM_7

PARlance wrote: »

Nobody is going to match City's strength in depth anytime soon.

Liverpool won a league with Shaqiri and Origi as backup attacking options. (And iirc Rashford, Martial and Greenwood outscored their front 3 that season).

A league is grand but City won 5 of the last 10 leagues so while matching them may not be easy getting closer to that overall level is needed to deal with high demands across seasons.

S.M.B.

Liam O wrote: »

If X gets injured then you're either left with Y, or Z.

Let's say XX, who's better than X, gets injured for City. YY can play there, he's better than X. ZZ can play there, he's better than X. ΩΩ can play there, better than X......

Now if the above doesn't show the need for at least n {insert position of choice}'s, just watch the games that United dropped points against terrible PL teams this season. Head in the sand stuff to think the options {insert any area of the pitch} are even close to being good enough to tie them over for another season.

The same logic could be applied throughout the entire squad (bar goalkeepers maybe).

Liam O

PARlance wrote: »

Nobody is going to match City's strength in depth anytime soon.

Liverpool won a league with Shaqiri and Origi as backup attacking options. (And iirc Rashford, Martial and Greenwood outscored their front 3 that season).

Yeah they won it because they had 3 world class forwards and a midfield working their asses off behind them as their world class full backs created overloads. United don't have that.

Martial scoring a few meaningless goals when games are won is not how you win leagues. That's someone getting a goal when it's the 80th minute in a close game that could go either way. Martial has given up by then and Rashford and Greenwood have been inconsistent for a while though Rashford has been shunted around and Greenwood is 19.

Bleating Lamb

I am a little worried if we are moving towards the rhetoric of settling for someone like Bissouma as our new 'solving the DM problem' talisman for the next 5 plus years.

I don't mean to denigrate Bissouma's abilities by saying that but I have watched a fair few Brighton games this Season....as his name was being mentioned as a possible target....also tried to see as much as I could of Ndidi and Rice.....but imo Bissouma still has a ways to go to be mentioned in same breath as likes of Rice or Ndidi or DM's at our direct rivals like Fabinho, Kante,or Rhodri.
Tbh I wouldn't put him far ahead of Mc Tominay currently.....so is it wise business to buy a very promising prospect rather than an established performer?

For the sake of 20M extra I would go for Rice or Ndidi who have both also looked comfortable in at CB when needs meant they had to play there for their managers.

An elephant in the room at Old Trafford is the considerable wages that both Henderson and De Gea(to a much greater extent) are on. If you look at it, of our direct rivals only Chelsea have two highly paid keepers.
If Utd took the decision to off load either Henderson or DDG this Summer it would free up a good few million which could then be used to strengthen areas previous posters have mentioned in the last few days.

For eg club would have spare money to sign an attacking RB, or a top class DM, or a RM/Striker. I also think that the money the club can generate from sales this year needs to be really important to our ability to sign players that will improve the first team.

In the last few year's likes of Liverpool and Chelsea have proven far better at getting sizeable transfer fees for deadwood.....Utd need to start doing this!!
There is no reason in the World that Lingard should not be valued at approx 25m when dealing with West Ham or likes of Spurs. Likewise if Utd aren't going to bring the likes of Garner back to the club next Season he could be sold for 8-10m......if using that money was the difference between getting a Bissouma rather than a Rice or Ndidi for example.

The_Kew_Tour

Rice is a fine player.

The problem with Rice is anytime he is put under pressure he gives the ball away.

Watched him v Southampton and again if closed down he struggles.

Rice will be great for most teams, but against the Liverpools, Citys, Bayerns and PSG he will be found out.

billyhead

Rice would be my priority signing this Summer. Greenwood is doing okay on the RW with James and Amad as cover. We can't go into next season with McFred as our 1st choice DM.

Liam O

billyhead wrote: »

Rice would be my priority signing this Summer. Greenwood is doing okay on the RW with James and Amad as cover. We can't go into next season with McFred as our 1st choice DM.

So you want 1 of them to play with Rice then?

Cotts72

billyhead wrote: »

Rice would be my priority signing this Summer. Greenwood is doing okay on the RW with James and Amad as cover. We can't go into next season with McFred as our 1st choice DM.

There's no way we can go into another season with no actual RW

James shouldn't be anywhere near old Trafford next season

Amad is slowly being eased in and hopefully will enjoy a decent preseason

Whatsisname

Neves is apparently available for £35m. I don’t think he’s defensively as good as Rice but I’d sooner choose him over spending £90m on Rice.

Zeek12

James is grand as a squad player.
We saw both sides of him on Sunday. Beautiful cross and assist for the 1st goal. And then a useless 1 on 1 attempt when clean through in the 2nd half.

But he'll be fine for a certain number of league games and the domestic cups.

If we have Rashford and James for LW (and Pogba also getting games there too because we can't accommodate him in the midfield).

And then Greenwood and Amad + potentially a Sancho for RW.....
That's essentially 6 players for the 2 wide positions.

Meantime we're totally relying on the McFred twosome as DM for most games.
Our 3rd choice CB (Bailly) is an injury liability.
And we have no real cover (or attacking impetus) at RB.

Seems to me that creates a fair bit of imbalance in the squad. Something we suffered from quite a lot during the LVG and Jose eras.