Manchester United Teamtalk/Transfer/Gossip 23/24 - [New Thread Available]

Zeek12

Starlord_01 wrote: »

DDG

AWB - Bailly - Lindelof - Shaw

McTom - Fred

Rashford - Bruno - Pogba

Cavani

Agree this is the XI we will see (I would prefer Tuanzebe over Bailly but it seems unlikely).

Rashford getting shunted over to the right side is annoying but it's what Ole does to accommodate Pogba, and I don't see that changing tonight.

5 subs are allowed - which at least gives plenty of scope to change things as needed.

y0ssar1an22

OTB saying earlier it might be better in the long run to lose. The kick up the ass the clubs needs to realise they are a long way off, rather than a victory where the owners might think the team is actually good enough.

they referenced liverpool vs sevilla...following summer brought in mane, cant remember who else. summer after was salah, robertson, few others.

i'm somewhere in between. win the thing but realise it is only the 2nd tier comp and there is a reason we were knocked out of the 1st tier comp.

anyway, looking forward to it. lets go!

beakerjoe

y0ssar1an22 wrote: »

OTB saying earlier it might be better in the long run to lose. The kick up the ass the clubs needs to realise they are a long way off, rather than a victory where the owners might think the team is actually good enough.

they referenced liverpool vs sevilla...following summer brought in mane, cant remember who else. summer after was salah, robertson, few others.

i'm somewhere in between. win the thing but realise it is only the 2nd tier comp and there is a reason we were knocked out of the 1st tier comp.

anyway, looking forward to it. lets go!

Did we get a kick up the backside when we lost to Sevilla?

I want us to win it.

Father Hernandez

Losing tonight would be atrocious for this club, manager and players.

I've said it for a long time now winning a trophy would be a fantastic catalyst for this group of players to really kick on. Although at times it's been frustrating with performances and some results, overall I believe Ole deserves a trophy.

There is already talk of players coming in (as always) but I do think there will be reinforcements during the Summer and don't think a loss/win will affect that.

Been a big critic of Maguire overall but this calendar year I think he has been immense showing his quality and leadership and will be very disappointed for him to miss out on it. Fernandes and himself deserce to be on that pitch tonight.

Won't be an easy game. GGMU.

y0ssar1an22

beakerjoe wrote: »

Did we get a kick up the backside when we lost to Sevilla?

I want us to win it.

maybe. maguire, AWB, james. was that that summer?

Klopp

I'm expecting Tuanzebe to start ahead of Bailly, he's played and looks more composed. A better defender imo. I hope Greenwood is on form tonight, i feel he could be the difference in what i expect will be a tight game.

Acosta

Starlord_01 wrote: »

DDG

AWB - Bailly - Lindelof - Shaw

McTom - Fred

Rashford - Bruno - Pogba

Cavani

Hopefully not. Fred is too dodgy lately. I'd stick Pogba in there instead, switch Rashford to the left and put Greenwood on the right. Rashford is no good on the right anyway.

Lucas Hood

S.M.B. wrote: »

Looking forward to tonight. Feels like a pivotal moment for Ole. Win and there could be real momentum behind his current tenure. Lose and those questions off his pedigree will get louder and louder.

I'm curious to see how he approaches tonight just as much as I am looking forward to the actual game.

Does he start with the McFred double pivot?

Does he risk Maguire if that's an option?

Does Bailly get the nod or is he destined to never partner Lindelof?

I don't think Maguire plays but with 5 subs during normal time plus another in extra time if it goes that far, its a risk he could afford to take.

Pussyhands

y0ssar1an22 wrote: »

OTB saying earlier it might be better in the long run to lose. The kick up the ass the clubs needs to realise they are a long way off, rather than a victory where the owners might think the team is actually good enough.

they referenced liverpool vs sevilla...following summer brought in mane, cant remember who else. summer after was salah, robertson, few others.

i'm somewhere in between. win the thing but realise it is only the 2nd tier comp and there is a reason we were knocked out of the 1st tier comp.

anyway, looking forward to it. lets go!

Mane, Salah, Robertson were hardly signings seen at the time to "kick liverpool on".

Easy to say now that they were some of the best players in the world but there's a reason Robertson was only bought for 7m, Salah and Mane bought for a combined 75m.

Liverpool got those 3 players for less than we paid for Pogba.

Mitch Connor

y0ssar1an22 wrote: »

maybe. maguire, AWB, james. was that that summer?

Seville was last season wasn't it?
So VDB, Telles and Cavani.
So, no, we didn't get a kick up the arse.

Cookiemunster

y0ssar1an22 wrote: »

maybe. maguire, AWB, james. was that that summer?

No. That was the season Jose finished second. They weren't signed until the following year when Ole was in charge, after we got trounced by Barca.

Pussyhands

In no way could losing tonight be seen as a positive, long term or short term.

We've already gone our longest period post Fergie without a trophy.

If we can't beat Villareal, then serious questions would be asked about Ole's position.

Weepsie

beakerjoe wrote: »

If Maguire cant play, I want Axel to partner Lindeloff.

Bailly hasnt looked good in recent weeks. His passing has been awful and appears off the pace.

Added to that, AwBs woeful positional sense is even more exposed with Bailey beside him lately.

I'd be going with Rashford or Pogba, but not both. Rashford is next to useless on the right, and exposed AwB even more. Pogba is a passenger anywhere but the left when he's not in the mood so one should be dropped and greenwood out wide.

If it's tight the. You've got one of them and say Juan Mata to come on and open things up a bit

yourdeadwright

Lucas Hood wrote: »

I don't think Maguire plays but with 5 subs during normal time plus another in extra time if it goes that far, its a risk he could afford to take.

I wonder would Maguire risk himself playing in the Europa Final & possibly then missing the Euro's ?


It's a tough call for the player let alone the manger,


United should have enough to win without him I reckon by 2 in a 3-1 win ,

Mitch Connor

I reckon Maguire will start.

England in the dark on his fitness, sitting out training in front of the cameras yesterday..... BOOM THE CAPTAIN STARTS.

loyatemu

starting an injured player never a good idea - how long did Evans last in the cup final? See also: every major tournament England decided to bring Owen or Rooney or whoever despite them not playing a game in the 3 months beforehand.

Whatsisname

Mitch Connor wrote: »

I reckon Maguire will start.

England in the dark on his fitness, sitting out training in front of the cameras yesterday..... BOOM THE CAPTAIN STARTS.

Haha you know I was thinking the same when I heard Southgate said he didn't even know if Maguire was fit or not.

xtal191

Mitch Connor wrote: »

I reckon Maguire will start.

England in the dark on his fitness, sitting out training in front of the cameras yesterday..... BOOM THE CAPTAIN STARTS.

Hah I'm convinced its all mind games and he'll be playing

Zeek12

y0ssar1an22 wrote: »

OTB saying earlier it might be better in the long run to lose. The kick up the ass the clubs needs to realise they are a long way off, rather than a victory where the owners might think the team is actually good enough.

they referenced liverpool vs sevilla...following summer brought in mane, cant remember who else. summer after was salah, robertson, few others.

i'm somewhere in between. win the thing but realise it is only the 2nd tier comp and there is a reason we were knocked out of the 1st tier comp.

anyway, looking forward to it. lets go!

Lol. Can't go along with the OTB guys there.

Like United haven't had enough of these "kicks" since SAF left!!

No credible title challenge in 8 years.
Missed out even on the Top 4 on several occasions
Multiple Semi Finals lost.

Losing tonight is the last thing this side needs.

It's 22 years to the exact day since a certain famous night in Barcelona in 99.

And also on this day in 1909 - Sir Matt Busby was born.
The stage is set to go out and get this done tonight.

Time for this group to step up and start adding some Trophies.

Pussyhands

I think he'll play too.

Not sure what the point of playing mind games is. Villareal will be expecting him to play anyways.

Someone in a protective boot a few days before a match would mean he's ruled out.

Hotblack Desiato

Starlord_01 wrote: »

DDG

AWB - Bailly - Lindelof - Shaw

McTom - Fred

Rashford - Bruno - Pogba

Cavani

I'd prefer Tuanzebe for Bailly but can see the latter starting

Also how about Greenwood starting and Rashford on the bench? 5 subs available after all. I don't think Ole will bench Rashford though.

Does the 3 stoppages for subs rule apply?
Is Mata still cup-tied? :pac:

loyatemu wrote: »

See also: every major tournament England decided to bring Owen or Rooney or whoever despite them not playing a game in the 3 months beforehand.

Yeah, why do they always do that? Seems to be down to cowardice in the face of the tabloid media.

EltonJohn69

Mitch Connor wrote: »

I reckon Maguire will start.

England in the dark on his fitness, sitting out training in front of the cameras yesterday..... BOOM THE CAPTAIN STARTS.

Agreed. And he scores the first goal.

Lucas Hood

Mitch Connor wrote: »

I reckon Maguire will start.

England in the dark on his fitness, sitting out training in front of the cameras yesterday..... BOOM THE CAPTAIN STARTS.

He looked pretty pissed off sitting on the bench yesterday for training.

grames_bond

Zeek12 wrote: »

It's 22 years to the exact day since a certain famous night in Barcelona in 99.

And also on this day in 1909 - Sir Matt Busby was born.

It's also Ole's anniversary and his wife's birthday!

Important day! :pac:

TRC10

Pussyhands wrote: »

In no way could losing tonight be seen as a positive, long term or short term.

We've already gone our longest period post Fergie without a trophy.

If we can't beat Villareal, then serious questions would be asked about Ole's position.

This is a bit extreme

Lucas Hood

Pussyhands wrote: »

In no way could losing tonight be seen as a positive, long term or short term.

We've already gone our longest period post Fergie without a trophy.

If we can't beat Villareal, then serious questions would be asked about Ole's position.

We've never beat Villareal before. 4 nil all draws.

El Gato De Negocios

Lucas Hood wrote: »

We've never beat Villareal before. 4 nil all draws.

Zero consideration, when did we last play them? Over 10 years ago wasn't it? They just finished 7th in a relatively poor Spanish league. Their trophy achievements are 2 intertoto cups, literally nothing else. If we don't beat them tonight it's a massive bloody nose for the team and the manager.

Whatsisname

I think our biggest threat tonight is ourselves. If we turn up, we'll win.

Obviously all form goes out the window when a final comes along but they finished 4 points behind Sociedad who we absolutely hockeyed. Tho Sociedad were very naive against us, whereas Emery is a very good manager and won't make the same mistakes.

Mitch Connor

Whatsisname wrote: »

I think our biggest threat tonight is ourselves. If we turn up, we'll win.

Obviously all form goes out the window when a final comes along but they finished 4 points behind Sociedad who we absolutely hockeyed. Tho Sociedad were very naive against us, whereas Emery is a very good manager and won't make the same mistakes.

This is my thoughts on it too.

United should win this, we have the players to do so. But we should also have beaten West Brom, or Sheffield United, and those weren't one off bad performances, they are bad performances that are common for this side.

If we play like we have done in recent weeks, we will lose. We can't be as bad as we were against Liverpool, or Fulham.

Mitch Connor

El Gato De Negocios wrote: »

Zero consideration, when did we last play them? Over 10 years ago wasn't it? They just finished 7th in a relatively poor Spanish league. Their trophy achievements are 2 intertoto cups, literally nothing else. If we don't beat them tonight it's a massive bloody nose for the team and the manager.

This is correct, but it also wouldn't be a surprise - which itself should be a big ding against the side and the manager

El Gato De Negocios

Mitch Connor wrote: »

This is correct, but it also wouldn't be a surprise - which itself should be a big ding against the side and the manager

I've given my thoughts on Ole on numerous occasions, I'm sure people are sick of them at this point so I'm not going to repeat them but tonight is a chance for him and the team to hopefully prove me wrong.

Pussyhands

TRC10 wrote: »

This is a bit extreme

I don't think so. We're on our longest run without a trophy post Fergie. We're only in Europa because we finished 3rd in the group. We have to be winning this, our squad is a level above the Europa.

When do you actually begin to question whether we should be winning or not? LVG and Mourinho got blasted for their performance yet they won trophies at the end of it.

TRC10

Pussyhands wrote: »

I don't think so. We're on our longest run without a trophy post Fergie. We're only in Europa because we finished 3rd in the group. We have to be winning this, our squad is a level above the Europa.

When do you actually begin to question whether we should be winning or not? LVG and Mourinho got blasted for their performance yet they won trophies at the end of it.

I agree with pretty much all of what you just said. We do have to be winning this.

But suggesting that Ole's job is in jeopardy of we lose is just extreme.

LVG and Jose both failed/were failing to get top 4. Thats why they got sacked. Yes they both won cups, but we've progressed more under Ole than either of them. The league doesn't lie.

That's not to say it wouldn't be a huge disappointment if we lose tonight. And Ole will come under criticism and rightly so. But his job isn't coming into question. That's just extreme.

But no doubt there will be those who call for his head if we lose.

All_in_Flynn

Agree with this. He won't be sacked and shouldn't be if we lose tonight.

He has done a good job so far and he's improved the team. I have doubts that he is the man to lead us back to a world class title challenging team but he has earned the right to give it a go.

However, he will have a much shorter leash from my perspective if we don't get it done tonight.

Mourinho, I personally think left the team in a better place than he found it. He may have won trophies but we were trending the wrong way under him. He refused to concede his way of playing was no longer sustainable for long term success. It might deliver the odd trophy but it was a solved puzzle.

I think we are back on the right path under Ole and at least trying to play the right way.

Discodog

Lots of reports of United fans being attacked & robbed by Polish supporters

Bleating Lamb

Whatsisname wrote: »

I think our biggest threat tonight is ourselves. If we turn up, we'll win.

Obviously all form goes out the window when a final comes along but they finished 4 points behind Sociedad who we absolutely hockeyed. Tho Sociedad were very naive against us, whereas Emery is a very good manager and won't make the same mistakes.

Would also agree with these sentiments....Utd need to take the game to Villarreal from the start.I think Ole will be conservative in his selection to start the game but I have a feeling he might just start Greenwood and leave Rashford to come on after 60 mins.
I would be happier to see Tuanzebe start over Bailly as Lindelof is never comfortable when he has to play as the LCB when he partners Bailly.
Am hopeful that Pogba will put in a good performance to finish up a decent Season for him.
I was surprised that Matic played for so long v Wolves as he may well be needed tonight to shore up the team if either Fred or Mc T get booked early or injured. If we are in control of the game I would like to see Mata come on for a possible final appearance for the club.

Have great memories of watching the 99' final in a Dublin pub....will be watching tonight's game at home but will have a six pack opened from 6:30pm when coverage starts on BT.
Score prediction- Utd 2 Villarreal 1

xtal191

https://twitter.com/officialsujal10/status/1397263178480988169

https://twitter.com/red_cafe/status/1397493280074518532?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1397493280074518532%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=

Zero chance we're losing this

Adamocovic

Looking forward to today.

Suppose one interesting area is who will be starting in goals.

Was convinced Ole would be going with De Gea but now not so sure. Both De Gea and Henderson have actually played the same amount of Europa League games which is mad.

Think the safest, drama free decision is to go with De Gea. Go with Henderson and he doesn’t perform and you’ll get torn apart by fans and media.

Mitch Connor

Adamocovic wrote: »

Looking forward to today.

Suppose one interesting area is who will be starting in goals.

Was convinced Ole would be going with De Gea but now not so sure. Both De Gea and Henderson have actually played the same amount of Europa League games which is mad.

Think the safest, drama free decision is to go with De Gea. Go with Henderson and he doesn’t perform and you’ll get torn apart by fans and media.

for me it depends on who Ole plans on being the keeper next season, and it is a decision he needs to make.

Whomever is number 1 for next season, should start tonight.

I do wonder if that decision has even been made. I would have thought it was going to be Henderson, with the club looking to move De Gea on, but De Gea starting vs Fulham throws a spanner in my thinking. I don't get why De Gea started that if Henderson is the No.1 and I don't get why Henderson started vs Wolves if De Gea is the no.1.

I wonder if the decision of who is number 1 for next season will be made by other clubs. If there is interest in Henderson but not De Gea, that might be what decides it.

Pussyhands

TRC10 wrote: »

I agree with pretty much all of what you just said. We do have to be winning this.

But suggesting that Ole's job is in jeopardy of we lose is just extreme.

LVG and Jose both failed/were failing to get top 4. Thats why they got sacked. Yes they both won cups, but we've progressed more under Ole than either of them. The league doesn't lie.

That's not to say it wouldn't be a huge disappointment if we lose tonight. And Ole will come under criticism and rightly so. But his job isn't coming into question. That's just extreme.

But no doubt there will be those who call for his head if we lose.

I don't understand how you can say we've progressed further with Ole than Jose?

Their records are almost identical.
Both will have won the Europa league, Jose will have a league cup win more.
Both have finished 2nd. (Jose finished with more points, less goals conceded, marginally less goals scored)

Jose did finish 6th in the league in his first year, but he also qualified from the CL groups on both occasions.

Ole did finish top 4 both seasons but did get relegated to EL this season from CL.

Elwood_Blues

Adamocovic wrote: »

Looking forward to today.

Suppose one interesting area is who will be starting in goals.

Was convinced Ole would be going with De Gea but now not so sure. Both De Gea and Henderson have actually played the same amount of Europa League games which is mad.

Think the safest, drama free decision is to go with De Gea. Go with Henderson and he doesn’t perform and you’ll get torn apart by fans and media.

Does the fact that DDG is also Spanish help when playing against a Spanish team?

Pussyhands

De Gea all day long for me. Not only do I think he's currently the better keeper, he also deserves to play in a european final after carrying us during our dark days. Didn't play in our EL final in 2017.

Pipmae

Pussyhands wrote: »

De Gea all day long for me. Not only do I think he's currently the better keeper, he also deserves to play in a european final after carrying us during our dark days. Didn't play in our EL final in 2017.

Yes I'd be thinking that way too. On balance I think De Gea deserves to play ahead of Hendersen.

Gosh I hope we win. The build up on social media is exciting. I love seeing Sir Alex with the team.

Tchaikovsky

It would be a crime if De Gea didn't start tonight. Henderson for Liverpool's 3rd and 4th goals was very poor too.

Pussyhands

I see Conte looks like he's going to be leaving Inter. Inter want/need to sell players so Conte isn't happy.

Solid chance Lukaku ends up back at Chelsea this summer.

TRC10

Pussyhands wrote: »

I don't understand how you can say we've progressed further with Ole than Jose?

Their records are almost identical.
Both will have won the Europa league, Jose will have a league cup win more.
Both have finished 2nd. (Jose finished with more points, less goals conceded, marginally less goals scored)

Jose did finish 6th in the league in his first year, but he also qualified from the CL groups on both occasions.

Ole did finish top 4 both seasons but did get relegated to EL this season from CL.

Their records are similar. But if you had to choose to be where we are now, or be where we were in May 2018, which would you chose? It's a no brainer for me.

With the right signings this summer, I dont think we're far off challenging. I never felt like that was the case in 2018. That team had hit it's ceiling, the current team has another level to get to IMO. But that's just my opinion. If you think you'd rather still have Jose then that's your view.

Pussyhands

TRC10 wrote: »

Their records are similar. But if you had to choose to be where we are now, or be where we were in May 2018, which would you chose? It's a no brainer for me.

With the right signings this summer, I dont think we're far off challenging. I never felt like that was the case in 2018. That team had hit it's ceiling, the current team has another level to get to IMO. But that's just my opinion. If you think you'd rather still have Jose then that's your view.

I think I'd still believe we are more likely to win a league or CL with Jose as manager.

Liverpool had a horrible season, with one of the worst injury crises I have seen and yet still finished just 5 points behind us.

Chelsea are going to have a pre season with Tuchel.

We should still get top 4 though, don't see Leicester or Spurs really challenging.

Fitz*

Mitch Connor wrote: »

for me it depends on who Ole plans on being the keeper next season, and it is a decision he needs to make.

Whomever is number 1 for next season, should start tonight.

I do wonder if that decision has even been made. I would have thought it was going to be Henderson, with the club looking to move De Gea on, but De Gea starting vs Fulham throws a spanner in my thinking. I don't get why De Gea started that if Henderson is the No.1 and I don't get why Henderson started vs Wolves if De Gea is the no.1.

I wonder if the decision of who is number 1 for next season will be made by other clubs. If there is interest in Henderson but not De Gea, that might be what decides it.

I know it's a different scenario but I've talked to Spurs fans before who think that Poch made a massive mistake in starting Kane over Moura in the CL final. Obviously Kane was the star player, the player the team was built around etc but Moura was the player who had fired them into the final and Kane was not fit.

Rightly or wrongly, Poch had a decision to make and he chose to start Kane. If Poch had not started Kane, irrespective of the match result, it could have been catastrophic for Spurs in that Kane could have woke up the next morning and handed in a transfer request. He's the star man and not starting in the biggest club game in football? That's a real signal to the player there.

It's easier to speak now in hindsight but as it happens, Poch went with the good of the club (ie telling Kane he is the star man no matter what) over the team and picked an unfit Kane over Moura. Spurs lost and went on a downward trajectory which ended up with Poch getting the sack, Moura completely out of form ever since.

Regarding tonight, I agree with you that OGS has a decision to make and whoever he wants as his number 1 next season should be picked tonight. If Henderson starts on the bench tonight, that's a message in itself IMO. And if DDG get's sold then in the summer, while starting ahead of him in this cup final, that's a double hammer blow to Henderson and a double hammer blow to his confidence before a new season where he is expected to be the new number 1.

Mitch Connor

TRC10 wrote: »

Their records are similar. But if you had to choose to be where we are now, or be where we were in May 2018, which would you chose? It's a no brainer for me.

With the right signings this summer, I dont think we're far off challenging. I never felt like that was the case in 2018. That team had hit it's ceiling, the current team has another level to get to IMO. But that's just my opinion. If you think you'd rather still have Jose then that's your view.

May 18.

Give Jose Maguire that summer (or Alderwereld or other) CB that he wanted. Get him the winger that could cross in to Lukaku, Peresic was targetted but Mahrez moved that summer, would have solved our RW problem that we had back then too. A top midfielder, not Fred, and we'd have had a very good squad, a manager that was backed and Jose/the team may not have imploded as they did. Probably would have needed a RB, to be fair, too.

We were closer to a top side in 18 than we are now, imo.

De Gea
Lacking a Right Back
Maguire
Lindelof/Smalling
Shaw
Matic
Pogba
Herrera
Mahrez
Lukaku
Martial/Rashford

that would have been a very promising starting 11. with some decent squad options as well.

TRC10

Pussyhands wrote: »

I think I'd still believe we are more likely to win a league or CL with Jose as manager.

Liverpool had a horrible season, with one of the worst injury crises I have seen and yet still finished just 5 points behind us.

Chelsea are going to have a pre season with Tuchel.

We should still get top 4 though, don't see Leicester or Spurs really challenging.

Yeah I can't agree with this tbh. It's been long since Jose has even looked like winning a Premiership or CL. Jose has fallen out with more players than he's won trophies since 2017. But that's your view which your entitled to.