All Ireland Senior Hurling Championship (Liam McCarthy Cup) 2021

Rosita

Frankie Machine wrote: »

Conversely, a picture paints a thousand words.

But why not use words? Surely that's the currency on a discussion board? It's like these people who have a meme for everything but never an original thought.

Rosita

Clareman wrote: »

Absolutely we're aggrieved at the decision but for me 1 of the biggest disappointments for me is how Clare reacted, he just gave up for a while and are using it as an excuse, yes it was a bad/wrong decision but they happen in games, get over it and move on, we didn't adjust to being a man down and conceded 2-4 in those 10 minutes.

Yeah, there's something in that. Clare struggled anyway. They led 1-7 to 0-4 in the first half and until Kelly's goal just before half time they were outscored 1-9 to 0-4 and that with 15 players. They penalty was still just an extra two points (assuming the alternative free would have been scored) in a game which had 60.

dirkmeister

Rosita wrote: »

Yeah, there's something in that. Clare struggled anyway. They led 1-7 to 0-4 in the first half and until Kelly's goal just before half time they were outscored 1-9 to 0-4 and that with 15 players.

This makes absolutely zero sense.

What you’re saying is that Clare led by a point but they were struggling.

MfMan

Rosita wrote: »

Worthy of mention today that Jason Forde put a sideline over the bar, had to retake it, and scored again. If certain other players did that a big deal would be made of it.

He also put one wide. Not in Ronan Maher's class yet. (I presume that's who you mean?)

Rosita

dirkmeister wrote: »

This makes absolutey zero sense.

What you’re saying is that Clare led by a point but they were struggling.

I never mentioned that they led by a point. You're imagining that I wrote that. What I said was that over a given (short) period in the first half they were outscored by 1-9 to 0-4 while with 15 players. I'd call that struggling. The observation is gut-wrenchingly unpalatable maybe but it makes sense alright. The idea that Clare lost the game over a penalty decision is attractive if the result is unacceptable to you but it's just not true.

Rosita

MfMan wrote: »

He also put one wide. Not in Ronan Maher's class yet. (I presume that's who you mean?)

No, Reid and Canning were who I had in mind. Ronan Maher is just as low profile for the media as Forde.

Clareman

dirkmeister wrote: »

This makes absolutely zero sense.

What you’re saying is that Clare led by a point but they were struggling.

I think half was mistaken with quarter there, I think Clare led 1-7 to 0-4 in the first quarter, I think Tipp came back to level at the water break, then they led by 2 points coming up to the half when Kelly scared to put Clare up by 1 at the half which shows that between 1-7 to 4 and before we got the goal we were being well beaten on most parts of the pitch.

Adelman of Beamfleot

Rosita wrote: »

Worthy of mention today that Jason Forde put a sideline over the bar, had to retake it, and scored again. If certain other players did that a big deal would be made of it.

MfMan wrote: »

He also put one wide. Not in Ronan Maher's class yet. (I presume that's who you mean?)

I knew MfMan's Canningometer would alert him to this post

letowski

I posted this over in the Clare thread for the fun of it

https://twitter.com/daithiconnell/status/1411761704933933059?s=21

tranquilo

Does anyone know when the draw for the qualifiers is and where to watch it?

lawred2

letowski wrote: »

I posted this over in the Clare thread for the fun of it

https://twitter.com/daithiconnell/status/1411761704933933059?s=21

What's mad about it. Those are the rules. Cynical play is rewarded with a free shot at goal.

Clareman

tranquilo wrote: »

Does anyone know when the draw for the qualifiers is and where to watch it?

Normally on Morning Ireland around 8.30 on Monday

letowski

lawred2 wrote: »

What's mad about it. Those are the rules. Cynical play is rewarded with a free shot at goal.

That the ref interpreted it was a clear goal scoring opportunity

lawred2

letowski wrote: »

That the ref interpreted it was a clear goal scoring opportunity

Well he was through on goal

Clareman

lawred2 wrote: »

Well he was through on goal

I'm going to say no, he wasn't through on goal, he would have had to play the ball at least three times (once to gain possession cleanly, 1 to get into a goal scoring position and another to take a shot). He was taken down inside the 20 meter line, that goes without arguement.

Clareman

lawred2 wrote: »

What's mad about it. Those are the rules. Cynical play is rewarded with a free shot at goal.

There's a big difference between a free and a penalty, there's an even bigger difference between a penalty and being without a man for 10 minutes. That foul wouldn't have happened within the "D Range" of the goal, that being the imaginary semi-circle of 25 meters from goal, the Clare player wouldn't have risked that foul, at the sideline there was a chance that he could win the ball or the free would be missed, the risk of it being a penalty was never in question in my opinion.

Mantis Toboggan

Clareman wrote: »

I'm going to say no, he wasn't through on goal, he would have had to play the ball at least three times (once to gain possession cleanly, 1 to get into a goal scoring position and another to take a shot). He was taken down inside the 20 meter line, that goes without arguement.

It was a cynical tackle in fairness, defender made sure to take him out.

lawred2

Clareman wrote: »

I'm going to say no, he wasn't through on goal, he would have had to play the ball at least three times (once to gain possession cleanly, 1 to get into a goal scoring position and another to take a shot). He was taken down inside the 20 meter line, that goes without arguement.

I think you're making to much of a calculation about it. The aim is to eliminate such cynical play. If players are free to make the risk based assessment that it'll likely be ok to cynically take someone out of the game because it's not directly in front of goal then they will continue to do so.

Pogue eile

letowski wrote: »

That the ref interpreted it was a clear goal scoring opportunity

Clareman wrote: »

I'm going to say no, he wasn't through on goal, he would have had to play the ball at least three times (once to gain possession cleanly, 1 to get into a goal scoring position and another to take a shot). He was taken down inside the 20 meter line, that goes without arguement.

No where in the rule does it say 'clear' , dont be listening to pundits who clearly haven't read the rule.

I will qualify the above by saying that in this instance I dint think it should have been a penalty/ sin bin but let's be clear about what the rule actually says. McCarthy was stupid for what he did but was disporpotionally punished.

Clareman

Mantis Toboggan wrote: »

It was a cynical tackle in fairness, defender made sure to take him out.

Absolutely, he took the yellow card to protect against the goal chance that could have happened, Clare turned over ball and were then turned over, probably the most dangerous time for a goal threat BUT for a goal to happen the player would have had to gain possession, play the ball (either solo or pass) and then a strike to goal.

PTH2009

tranquilo wrote: »

Does anyone know when the draw for the qualifiers is and where to watch it?

Thinks its next Monday (12th July) on RTE Radio 1/RTE News Channel Morning show

Matches will be played on Saturday 17th July

Clareman

lawred2 wrote: »

I think you're making to much of a calculation about it. The aim is to eliminate such cynical play. If players are free to make the risk based assessment that it'll likely be ok to cynically take someone one out of the game because it's not directly in front of goal then they will continue to do so.

I'll quote the guidelines again so

It is the decision of the Referee as to whether it is a goal-scoring opportunity or not, but it must be inside the 20m line or the semi-circular arc. Key factors the
referee should consider.
• Where the foul occurred?
• How many defenders are between the attaching player and the goals?
• Could another defender make a tackle before reaching the goals?
• How many players are in the area in front of the goals?

Clareman

Pogue eile wrote: »

No where in the rule does it say 'clear' , dont be listening to pundits who clearly haven't read the rule.

I will qualify the above by saying that in this instance I dint think it should have been a penalty/ sin bin but let's be clear about what the rule actually says. McCarthy was stupid for what he did but was disporpotionally punished.

True it doesn't say clear, but it does say goal scoring opportunity, could anyone say that that was honestly a goal scoring opportunity? Maybe a run on goal, suck in a couple of defenders, make a pass and a shot past the goalie

lawred2

Clareman wrote: »

True it doesn't say clear, but it does say goal scoring opportunity, could anyone say that that was honestly a goal scoring opportunity? Maybe a run on goal, suck in a couple of defenders, make a pass and a shot past the goalie

That's a goal scoring opportunity

Clareman

lawred2 wrote: »

That's a goal scoring opportunity

In that case every foul inside the 20 is a penalty. Tony Kelly was fouled about a minute before that, Barrett was given a yellow card but what was to say if Kelly didn't get clean possession that it wouldn't have been a goal, he had Barrett beaten is it wasn't for the foul.

Clareman

And to add to it, why wasn't Cleary's foul before half time not a penalty as well then? Probably more a penalty. I wouldn't be surprised if Owens didn't realise he made a mistake there and tried to make up for it.

C__MC

Can tipp keep it picked out to limerick
Two big defeats limerick has inflicted on them recently

lawred2

I see Donal Og is trotting out more "stats"

TheRiverman

Could we have a collection to buy a few pairs of socks for Donal Og and Jackie Tyrrell ?

formerlyET

Swamp_Cat wrote: »

TJ does so much more than score. Alan Murphy was very good when taking free's in the league, so IMO the % stats mean little to nothing. TJ can not score & still be the most impactful player on the pitch. The same can not be said of SC. SC is an amazing talent but he's no TJ, or Canning. Still one of the greats so no point in comparing players of their caliber.

Seamie Callanan's goal scoring records speaks for itself, he's the best inside forward of his generation. A goal machine and point machine from PLAY. There hasn't been a goal scoring record anywhere near his in the modern game.

TJ and Joe are better half forwards (and better from dead balls).

formerlyET

awaywithyou wrote: »

Clare u feel have the potential to overrun Tipp.... there much younger and are full of running.... a lot of them Tipp boys are going to struggle with the pace of the game when it wenters the final quarter.... living off experience craft and know how... they look so slow compared to Clare....

This "AGED" well

Asdfgh2020

formerlyET wrote: »

Seamie Callanan's goal scoring records speaks for itself, he's the best inside forward of his generation. A goal machine and point machine from PLAY. There hasn't been a goal scoring record anywhere near his in the modern game.

TJ and Joe are better half forwards (and better from dead balls).

I think John Mullane might be a close second. There are stats somewhere showing his scores from play (he never took frees) per game are up there with the best...?

Speak Now

lawred2 wrote: »

I see Donal Og is trotting out more "stats"

Is he saying "right" and looking around after every stat assuming everyone is a simpleton

UsBus

TheRiverman wrote: »

Could we have a collection to buy a few pairs of socks for Donal Og and Jackie Tyrrell ?

Donal Og reminds me of a Florida blue rinse pensioner with the short pants and runners

Mantis Toboggan

C__MC wrote: »

Can tipp keep it picked out to limerick
Two big defeats limerick has inflicted on them recently

Unlikely, Limerick are different level, played around with Cork in second gear. Still streets ahead of everyone.

formerlyET

Asdfgh2020 wrote: »

I think John Mullane might be a close second. There are stats somewhere showing his scores from play (he never took frees) per game are up there with the best...?

John Mullane has an excellent record as a scoring forward from play - there were two or three years where he was red hot - off left and right. Callanan's goal tally is more than twice Mullane's though. People think all Callanan does is score goals because he scores so many... He scored nine points from play in an all-ireland final. Regularly scores a heap of points. Works like a dog. Mullane - fantastic inside forward, very exciting - but he doesn't have the record of Callanan. But, in my view, we're talking the best inside forward of a genertaion in Callanan.

formerlyET

Mantis Toboggan wrote: »

Unlikely, Limerick are different level, played around with Cork in second gear. Still streets ahead of everyone.

I'll be happy to see a development of tactics that will work against Limerick that can be used later in the real championship.

Rosita

C__MC wrote: »

Can tipp keep it picked out to limerick
Two big defeats limerick has inflicted on them recently

Almost irrelevant in a way. Today was the key game for Tipp. They could nearly give the young lads a run against Limerick.

giveitholly

I see two fouls here,clare player attempts to drag Heffernan down first and then heffernan fouls the clare player so as they say in the game,6 of one.....

https://twitter.com/Goalienumber1/status/1411773743316209670?s=19

Rosita

That's what I saw too and assumed that's why the referee let it go. However someone on the Clare thread insisted that it should gave been a free out which I suppose by the letter of the law it should.

formerlyET

Still no evidence shown of players in front of the goal and in front of Morris.

A lot of lads saying there were but no visual that proves it.

Not saying they weren't - yet to see a visual that proves it.

I was in section 114 - looked through on goal to me. I saw no one in front of Morris.

Also, if you're running through and a back comes to you but the back has left his man inside and you can pop in to him - is that still a 'goal opportunity'?

breezy1985

formerlyET wrote: »

Still no evidence shown of players in front of the goal and in front of Morris.

A lot of lads saying there were but no visual that proves it.

Not saying they weren't - yet to see a visual that proves it.

I was in section 114 - looked through on goal to me. I saw no one in front of Morris.

Also, if you're running through and a back comes to you but teh back has left his man inside and you can pop in to him - is that still a 'goal opportunity'?

Definitely no bias there whatsoever

Rover365

Mantis Toboggan wrote: »

Bit harsh, 50/50 game, twas definitely a goal opportunity and it was a stupid tackle but it was a very harsh decision against Clare. Clare didn't didn't respond well though and ran out of steam towards the end.

Ya ran out of steam scoring the last 5 points not to mention the penalty decision

conor05

Mantis Toboggan wrote: »

Unlikely, Limerick are different level, played around with Cork in second gear. Still streets ahead of everyone.

I would fancy Kilkenny to beat Limerick this year.

They are not streets ahead of everyone

Limerick have an atrocious record against Kilkenny in championship hurling.

Rosita

conor05 wrote: »

I would fancy Kilkenny to beat Limerick this year.

They are not streets ahead of everyone

Limerick have an atrocious record against Kilkenny in championship hurling.

I'd expect Kilkenny to beat Limerick too but I'm not sure of the relevance of a past "atrocious record". They beat Kilkenny in 2018 when I'd assume the same could have been said beforehand.

breezy1985

conor05 wrote: »

I would fancy Kilkenny to beat Limerick this year.

They are not streets ahead of everyone

Limerick have an atrocious record against Kilkenny in championship hurling.

The 1980s don't matter one bit. Only what happened between the players out there now does and yes KK probably have a tiny advantage as they have won 2 recently and Limerick 1 but historical records amean nothing.
Limerick are definitely favorites if that game happened but KK would certainly have a decent chance

Rosita

Rover365 wrote: »

Ya ran out of steam scoring the last 5 points not to mention the penalty decision

Game was cooked then to be fair. Clare led by 1-7 to 0-4 in the first half and until those last five points you mention at the end they were outscored by 3-19 to 1-10. That's a savage gap in scoring. They were outplayed realistically. They started well and bumped the scoreboard a bit towards the end but were not at the pitch of it mainly. I have a feeling Clare could struggle in the qualifiers.

Walter Alright

supernova5 wrote: »

never seen one team get shafted as badly by a bastard referee in my whole life watching hurling, that's all of 52 years

Tipp v Wexford in the All Ireland semi final in 2019 was way worse. Tipp got completely shafted that day.

Rosita

breezy1985 wrote: »

Definitely no bias there whatsoever

Just as there's no bias in the other interpretations.

breezy1985

Rosita wrote: »

Just as there's no bias in the other interpretations.

I have no skin in it I hate both teams. I would not have called it a goal scoring chance but my anger is towards the rule rather than the decision. They should make a bigger box rather than interpretation