Covid vaccines - thread banned users in First Post

snowcat

It needs to work as it was shown to work in its vaccine trials. The 90-95% efficacy of symptomatic infection against the existing strain of Covid 19 is absolute baloney. It is crap. Next to useless against existing strains.

drunkmonkey

The evidence is in the numbers, I'm not going looking for them right now. I had them earlier today.

This is a rolling experiment, take Fauci and Biden we or anyone else will never know why they didn't die from Omicron or even end up in hospital. Was it the first 2 jabs, first booster, second booster, Paxlvoid or something else take your pick from the thousands of ridiculous interventions. Maybe someone having a €9 meal in Mayo is to thank.

Can you not see who bonkers this has become yet? Even Paul Moynagh became a conspiracy theorist today questioning our booster campaign.

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119386875#Comment_119386875

It 'needs' to work? Sure it would be better if it did. Gosh maybe you know coming up with vaccines that stop infection of respiratory viruses isnt easy and covid mutates fast so lets focus on the essentials.

More importantly it is saving lives even against latest strains.

So it is not crap. It is not baloney. And no its not up for debate about its effectiveness v severe covid as the evidence below demonstrates

Copied from above linked article:

Only 49% of people ages 60 and older had gotten at least two doses, with coverage declining as people got older.

Among the deaths, 96% occurred in people ages 60 and older, and of those 70% were unvaccinated. "The high overall mortality rate during the ongoing 2022 Hong Kong Omicron COVID-19 outbreak is being driven by deaths among unvaccinated persons aged ≥60 years," the team wrote.

In weighing other factors, the team compared Hong Kong's surge with New Zealand, which has a lower population density but, like Hong Kong, was thought to largely have vaccine-induced immunity due to vaccination combined with low infection levels during earlier waves.

The investigators found that, during the Omicron peak, New Zealand's mortality reached 2.1 per million population, compared with Hong Kong's nearly 38 deaths per million population, which they said underscores the vaccine's impact on preventing COVID-19 deaths.

drunkmonkey

We're using Hong Kong as a bellwether now, lol.

Has it ever crossed your mind China may have weponised a respiratory virus. It sure helped them stamp out the rioting in Hong Kong.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119386788#Comment_119386788

You may be interested in CFR comparisons between Bulgaria and Australia

Or vaccination rates

Or just interested in cherry picking?

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119386951#Comment_119386951

Thats not a rebuttal. Unable to provide any evidence to support your earlier unfounded claim you now come up with an even bigger one. With added lols.

Is Omicron mild or is it a weapon? You cant keep your story straight.

The deaths and hospitalisations from Omicron in HK completely discredit the argument that the crucial factor for reduced hospitalisations elsewhere is... Omicron.

Its not. It is vaccines.

hometruths

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119386805#Comment_119386805

Interesting, thanks.

a confidence interval (CI) is a range of estimates for an unknown parameter.

So at 9 months the range of estimates of vaccine effectiveness (any vaccine) against SARS-CoV-2 infection of any severity in 842 974 vaccinated individuals matched to an equal number of unvaccinated individuals would be somewhere just above zero to about -30%?

Am I reading that correctly?

bad2thebone

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119386824#Comment_119386824

Paxlvoid, that's what people take when their immune system is absolutely in chaos.

Some countries are now using HIV drugs to help with covid.

Those conspiracy theorists loons and quck doctors and physicians were saying that this could be on the horizon. But you see they are still wrong.

It's my opinion that something drastically has gone wrong.

Remember how it started in one country and everything followed.

So much for if you take the vaccine you'll not catch covid, there's something seriously gone wrong somewhere.

I'm thankful I had the freedom of choice and kept myself informed by the so called quack's.

drunkmonkey

Yup China just approved a HIV drug to treat "normal" Covid.

It's amazing how they can repurpose HIV durgs but when the crap really hit the fan they were Banning Nicorette in France and horse pills here.

bad2thebone

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119387061#Comment_119387061

They probably researched it year's before hand, see how it works with people who are immunocompromised. They tend to know these things are on the way. Sure they had stockpiles of monkey pox vaccines stored in case like.

All in storage in huge freezers, in the middle of the desert probably.

King Mob

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119386968#Comment_119386968

And what did the actual paper you're misrepresenting say? Does it actually mention negative efficacy outside the graph you are interpreting by yourself?

(Since you're going to ignore the question: no it doesn't. You're misrepresenting stuff again.)

King Mob

And look at that. Already abandoned the claims of the vaccine effecting menstrual cycles.

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119387210#Comment_119387210

Another one to add to the list.

King Mob

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119386204#Comment_119386204

OK. If you've no evidence to indicate this is true, why do you believe it's the case?

bad2thebone

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119387061#Comment_119387061

I know, it's handy for getting the pony to drop in for some.

Better to have a healthy immune system that hasn't been tinkered with or turned into a photo copier and firing out all these replicated spike proteins anytime you've a common cold.

White blood cells create an immune response, imagine if it was reprogrammed for lashing out one response. That would be scary.

astrofool

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119387330#Comment_119387330

Imagine all you want (fantasise maybe?) That isn't how the immune system works. Though I see we're now circled back to "natural immunity" idiocy, xkcd hasn't been posted in a few weeks.

Weepsie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119386992#Comment_119386992

Noone claimed you wouldn't get it. Stop the revisionism

bad2thebone

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119387512#Comment_119387512

Can you prove that nobody whatsoever said that. Because all you have to do is google it. It's quite simple.

bad2thebone

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2021/jul/22/joe-biden/biden-exaggerates-efficacy-covid-19-vaccines/

bad2thebone

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119387535#Comment_119387535

The U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention said that COVID-19 vaccines are effective. But no vaccines are 100% effective at preventing illness. "There will be a small percentage of fully vaccinated people who still get sick, are hospitalized, or die from COVID-19," the CDC said.

This aged well.

robinph

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119387538#Comment_119387538

Not seeing the problem. No different than the if he'd said wear a seatbelt so you don't die in a car crash. Nobody would expect that he meant wearing a seatbelt made you immortal, why do you think that him saying take this vaccine to protect yourself would do the same?

Now if he were a someone with a medical background quoting percentage rates for infections or hospitalisations and had said that it was 100% effective that would be a different matter, but it was more of a conversational comment by the sounds of it and you'd not expect statistics to be quoted around.

robinph

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119386204#Comment_119386204

"many more" than what?

Some conditions will certainly have gone undiagnosed as soon as they would normally. Some conditions will not have been treated to the same standards as they would normally. Some will have been better treated than previously as new ways of working with patients were figured out that actually turned out better. Some conditions, especially workplace injuries, were drastically reduced. Injury from road accidents were greatly reduced.

Overall though, more people were saved by lockdowns and the reduction in deaths from covid and from health services not being as overwhelmed so that they could deal with any other cases still.

Lots of things could have been done slightly differently, but overall the lockdowns had a positive effect for society as a whole ... Even if some individuals came out of it worse for whatever reasons.

drunkmonkey

"lockdowns had a positive effect for society as a whole"

Wow, just f'n wow.

bad2thebone

This is what

This is what Professor of Immunology Paul Moynagh said recently.

Note diminished returns.

The variant that has constituted most of the wave that we've just seen is BA5. RNA vaccines don't do a good job fighting infection, so should we be looking at other vaccines, other technologies?

Note where he says , should we be looking at other vaccines, other technologies.

He also said, With regard to people not taking up the vaccine, Prof Moynagh urged caution: "We need to be careful and humble in terms of what we expect of these vaccines.

"The other problem is, do we continue to vaccinate with this original vaccine or should we look at updated forms of the vaccine?

So it's obvious that they're still vaccinating people with the original vaccines, and they're not being updated.

Unlike the flu vaccine which is updated, they're boosting people with the original vaccines.

astrofool

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119387971#Comment_119387971

The other technologies (Novavax, Sinopharm/Vac, Adenovector) have worse efficacy and the same waning as mRNA (the waning is purely down to the human immune system and how it deals with coronavirus and is independent of the vaccine used). mRNA can also be updated more quickly, and production is faster and more reliable (but more expensive).

If anything, we'll see more mRNA vaccines replace traditional vaccines as the production costs come down.

Current vaccine efficacy against severe disease and preventing hospitalisations is still as strong as it ever was (~90%) which is why boosters are being used.

Omicon mRNA vaccine should be available in October, but (and said here to prevent loons acting loony later) efficacy will wane and virus mutation will reduce its efficacy against infection.

bad2thebone

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119387888#Comment_119387888

Lockdowns had a negative effect on society as a whole.

Yet there was people dancing around the headlands, piers, beaches and landmarks doing a dance.

And they were applauded for it, dancing on people's misery. Supposedly it was for people's morale. Talk about being lead by example.

Dissonance was a big thing back then. It show's how people can be told that it's for your own good.

Mind you, we were all worried in the beginning. I remember being one of the only ones left in work, myself and the tree surgeon while a lot of them scattered like flies. I had the job of locking up the estate and setting timers in the glasshouses, and making sure seedlings and rooted cuttings, and bromeliad collection were protected. Luckily I held onto my job. Didn't have to work from home.

Hearing the numbers being manipulated daily on the news, and contradictions was what made me start to question things. People dying from covid or with covid was confusing.

Mind you the first wave was scary and thankfully I didn't loose anyone close.

I did say I'd take a vaccine at the start if one was created by but I decided to hedge my bets on being one of the percentage of people who'll survive if I caught covid. I was right.

Took me nearly 2 and a half years before it finally cornered me. All my friends and family members who were vaccinated caught it early this year and late last year. They were confused about that, but I wasn't.

It went to vaccinate yourself to protect others to, whether you're vaccinated or not you'll more than likely catch it and other's will have protection from getting really sick.

See how everything was watered down. If they told everyone at the start clearly. If you're taking this vaccine it might not work or stop you from catching COVID. It will probably lesson the symptoms, but we cannot guarantee either way.

But no, that wasn't what happened.

King Mob

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119387888#Comment_119387888

Have you any evidence to the contrary?

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119388059#Comment_119388059

That wasn't what happened - because that wasn't what happened.

I was vaccinated this time last year along with most of the rest of the population when the VOCs were Alpha / Kent and Delta.

All of the information presented then for vaccines at the time was valid. It provided protection against severe covid, and protection against infection and transmission. The evidence is presented in the Lancet study above and has not been contradicted.

The effectiveness of the vaccines wane. The protection v infection (antibodies) faster than the protection against severe covid which is more durable. This meant that the vaccinated in 2021 had protection against these more severe strains and enabled the country to loosen restrictions.

And then Omicron arrived. Which is milder but more infectious even than the earlier strains which are more infectious than flu.

Stop the revisionism as if the only strain has ever been Omicron. It didn't even exist when the vaccines were being rolled out here.

If you deny, for example, that the vaccine provides durable protection against severe covid, you do not do so on the basis of evidence. It is your opinion. It is baseless.

bad2thebone

@drunkmonkey

Most countries came to this conclusion.

Say 20% of people's mental health has been impacted, so that's a quarter of the population. If 20% of people are not firing on all cylinders, that means that ,80% of people are having to take up the slack in order to work harder to keep up. It's good in a way to have the capacity to take one 20% extra but it's not good that 20% of people were impacted either.

Evidence to date shows that the combined effect of the Covid-19 pandemic and associated restrictions is that approximately one person in every five in the general population in Ireland (and elsewhere) has significantly increased psychological distress (e.g. anxiety, depression).

Some people with think that's ok, or will dilute it and say it was worth it in order to keep order.

Happened throughout history and there's documentaries about this kind of thing, people saying this would never happen in our society or if it happened somewhere else.

People's human rights trampled on, but ironically it was the usual cohort of society who love being herded like sheep. The same type of people would have been mauling rosary beads long ago and letting the priest dictate their sociatial endeavours and goals.

Same thing really all or nothing.

I love a good rant on a Tuesday morning.

bad2thebone

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119388134#Comment_119388134

At present we're with omnicron, yes you're right.

So can we conclude that for healthy people the vaccines or boosters,one of the same really at present are as much use as a chocolate fireplace, but for immunocompromised people and the elderly it's wise to take it.

On your last paragraph you mentioned severe covid, well as it stands severe covid isn't impacting like it did before.

The vaccines still probably give a limited protection to people, but the cure and the cause are almost on equal footing as far as vaccines and your natural immunity pushing it back .

At least it's not as bad as it was. So if it keeps on mutating more and more it'll be probably go from a roaring lion to a quite purr....

So it's all good now again. And hopefully those sites and people suggesting that the vaccines are wiping people's immunity are false.

It's a very chicken and the egg coming first observation.