Covid vaccines - thread banned users in First Post

patnor1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119419435#Comment_119419435

Unbelievable stuff. Absolute fanatical tunnel vision where no other way is possible. Perhaps some sort of a buyers remorse?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119419826#Comment_119419826

Yea, the "nuh uh, you are too" tactic doesn't really work, or address any of the points raised against you man.

You started off on this thread under the pretense of not being an anti-vaxxer.

No one buys this.

EyesClosed

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119419840#Comment_119419840

Buyers remorse? But the vaccine has been shown to be overwhelming safe.

If it was killing people... You think you'd be able to show that.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119419840#Comment_119419840

Nope. That's more you trying to assign beliefs to people to explain away why no one has been convinced by your conspiracy theories.

"It can't be that I'm wrong and my arguments are bad, it must bet that you guys are all fanatics."

But again, you ignore the actual arguments that people have been presenting.

It's not plausible to suggest that the vaccines are the cause because:

1. There's no evidence that they are.
2. That evidence should be clear and obvious and being reported on.
3. it's not possible that experts and organisations have missed this while you guys somehow caught it using no evidence, education or anything more than twitter.
4. it's not possible that there's a global conspiracy to cover it up, as none of you guys will even directly suggest that.

Which of these points do you disagree with?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119419899#Comment_119419899

Also, I got my vaccine and booster for free...

Dohnjoe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119419826#Comment_119419826

You've just admitted to having no objectivity on the matter.

Also, since I am reflecting the views of the consensus of medical science on this, you're equating that on the same level as your own personal opinions.

"My personal openly biased opinion is greater than their science" - narcissists everywhere.

Dohnjoe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119419840#Comment_119419840

Absolutely fanatical tunnel vision that there's something, anything wrong with vaccines. Validating anyone who expresses any sort of anti-vax belief, even if it's completely contradictory, even if it's some batshiat insane claim they are killing huge numbers, or that silly-beyond-belief conspiracies are occurring

What I can only presume are adults, playing make-believe about medicine, on a conspiracy forum, having to post here because their views are too idiotic for any normal forums.

Being so deluded that they can't see any of this and believe they know more than doctors, physicians, scientists, experts, virologists

That type of fanaticism?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119419951#Comment_119419951

Also, based on the vague, wishy washy definition we've been getting all doctors and experts are also "extreme pro vaxxers."

patnor1011

Sure, it is ABV disease (Anything But Vaccines) which is causing injuries and excess death. I do have no problem with people on this thread who do not want to see it. Multiple insurance companies begs to differ.

With this unprecedented scale of vaccination in the middle of pandemic using new technology which was not tested enough (compared to how other vaccines were developed and tested), no wonder there is more injuries and also deaths.

https://frettin.is/2022/07/22/107-tilkynningar-um-aukaverkanir-medal-barna-thar-af-11-alvarlegar-hvad-thydir-thad-i-raun/

hometruths

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119419951#Comment_119419951

I'm a believer in evidence based medicine. But sadly the events of the vaccine roll out have shaken that belief, and in my confidence on the views of the consensus of medical science. That consensus has been shown to be driven by commercial interests and an industry that suppresses negative trial results and fails to report adverse events.

I will happily admit my objectivity on the subject has suffered the longer I spend in this thread listening to the desperate clutching at straws and deflection that goes on here.

But my opinion has not changed much, it has just been strengthened. I have always said that I am emphatically not against covid vaccines for elderly, immunocompromised etc.

But what I am very anti is the relentless pressure to get every man, woman and child vaccinated regardless of the individual risk/benefit profile. And also the divide and conquer strategy, which appears to have been significantly more successful than the vaccine. And the constant revisionism.

If that is narcissistic, in your opinion, then so be it.

EyesClosed

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119420036#Comment_119420036

Link dump for yet another independent "truth" right wing media site... Yea I don't trust them

robinph

I'm a believer in evidence based medicine.

Yet provide zero evidence to back up your claims regarding vaccines.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119420069#Comment_119420069

But you keep ignoring all of the anti-vaxx stuff coming from your pals.

And when you're asked about that stuff, you either pretend it doesn't exist, or when you do dain to comment on it, you agree with it.

Even now, you're supporting pat's claims with one hand while saying you don't agree with the other.

Igotadose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119420123#Comment_119420123

Not sure the OP understands what evidence-based medicine means. Would love to hear his/her definition.

Dohnjoe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119420069#Comment_119420069

Dude..

You're on a forum for people who believe that space travel is fake, that Covid was a big conspiracy, that there's a secret world government trying to enslave us, not only that you're in the same thread as them, and alongside them with the same views, validating each other.

At what point do you question your personal beliefs, because if not at that extreme point, I doubt there is any hope.

hometruths

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119420123#Comment_119420123

I've provided evidence for everything I have claimed as a fact - eg the vaccine received EUA specifically to prevent symptomatic COVID infection, and not to prevent hospitalisation and death.

And I have acknowledge everything that is without evidence and merely my opinion, and is worth no more or less than your own opinion.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119420188#Comment_119420188

So that's about as close to an admission we'll get that there's no evidence linking the deaths in Spain to covid...

Also, no, you didn't present evidence for that claim. You were substituting your opinion on what was said while ignoring all of the explanations being spoon fed to you as well as all of the context.

sydthebeat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119420188#Comment_119420188

Your opinion is worth a hell of a lot less than the medical and scientific professionals who say otherwise than you

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119419787#Comment_119419787

The numbers are bonkers.

Look at the population of Germany.

Look at how many vaccines they rolled out.

This guy is linking 30 - 40 percent of all autopsied deaths to the vaccines.

Those numbers map to huge numbers of deaths.

He took a wrong turn somewhere there.

I suspect this is why we've never heard of similar results from anyone else, or seen the study that supported this claim.

hometruths

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119420220#Comment_119420220

Sure but to give two examples, my opinion on the possibility of vaccines being a contributory factor in some deaths is shared by Peter Schirmacher, German Pathologist I quoted earlier.

And my opinion that vaccinating everybody regardless of age is unnecessary, and potentially harmful, is shared by Dr Martin Kulldorff, who previously was a Professor of Medicine in the Division of Pharmacoepidemiology and Pharmacoeconomics at Harvard Medical School

One thing that I believe is a key aspect of COVID-19 is that while anybody can get infected, there is more than a 1000-fold difference in the risk of dying from it among the oldest versus the youngest. This is something we’ve known from the very beginning in the spring and winter of 2020. For older people, this vaccine is very important, because we know the vaccine can prevent death for this group. However, for younger people, it is not so clear cut, because for older people, even if there are small risks from the vaccine that we may not know about yet, the benefits far outweigh the risks. In the case of children, we don't know these risks yet as it takes time to learn the safety profile of a vaccine, but we do know there's a very minuscule risk for mortality from COVID-19 for this group.

It's not clear what the risks and benefits are for younger people, and I think that public health authorities have made a huge mistake by pushing it for everybody instead of just focusing on older people. For example, there have been mandates for people working to get vaccinated, and the bill also mandated for students and some children too as well. However, the people who really need it are retired people and for them, there are no mandates. The focus should have been on reaching older people and by making a huge controversy with mandates, and I believe that a lot of older people refused the vaccine because of that. I think that those vaccine fanatics who have been pushing this vaccine have actually damaged vaccine confidence in the country. Not just for the COVID-19 vaccine, but other very important vaccines such as the measles vaccine, polio vaccine, and so on.

http://www.hhpronline.org/articles/2022/5/7/rebuilding-trust-after-covid-with-dr-martin-kulldorff

hometruths

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119420229#Comment_119420229

This guy is linking 30 - 40 percent of all autopsied deaths to the vaccines.

No he is linking 30-40% of the 40 autopsies he did on deaths within two weeks of vaccination to the vaccines. Quite a significant difference.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119420258#Comment_119420258

Ok.

And all of the other doctors, professionals and experts who were behind the effort to get people vaccinated?

What about their opinion? Why trust this one doctor over them? Why do you trust him over them?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119420269#Comment_119420269

So at best, that's 16 people who be believes were possibly killed by the vaccine.

What's the issue?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119420298#Comment_119420298

16 who he ASSUMES were killed by the vaccine. He doesn't have any proof.

Language is important.

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119420269#Comment_119420269

What were his findings for the next 40 he did? Why haven't we heard of them???

It is bonkers. So what stopped two weeks later? They were vaccinating for months in Germany.

The numbers don't add up. The story doesn't add up.

If he did the autopsies in the 'study' claimed, he should have documented proof and evidence that can be shown to other pathologists.

So where is this study?

hometruths

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119420647#Comment_119420647

I don't think he did another 40, that's the point.

Here is the study he did - https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanepe/article/PIIS2666-7762(22)00023-0/fulltext#cesectitle0029

Only mention of vaccinations is:

As we expect the highly important post-SARS-CoV-2 vaccination autopsy cohort to be further increased in the near future, it will be subject of subsequent analyses from the registry.

The registry is the German COVID-19 autopsy registry, funded by the German government as was Schirmacher's study. I guess they weren't so keen on his advice that greater numbers were required, or as you say we'd have heard about them.

Perhaps the point in the article that his comments were "a politically explosive statement in times when the vaccination campaign is losing momentum, the Delta variant is spreading rapidly and restrictions on non-vaccinated people are being discussed" proved to be prescient.

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119420975#Comment_119420975

So he just happened to find 30-40% of the autopsies he did where the vaccine was the cause of death... and then none.

Given the numbers of vaccines being rolled out... It beggars belief.

And no other pathologist in this study or elsewhere in the normal course of their duties encountered similar results.

And the study conducted over 1000 autopsies.

Autopsies are carried out where someone dies and the cause of death is unclear - they don't only happen as part of a study. So if vaccines were having such an effect, given the numbers vaccinated, there would be significant numbers of autopsies being conducted across every country that rolled out the vaccines in the same time frame.

How exactly do you explain how he could have found this scale of vaccine related deaths?

The whole story doesn't add up.

hometruths

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119421018#Comment_119421018

So you're saying that you find one of Germany's top pathologists opinion to be implausible?

And that's fair enough. You're entitled to your opinion. But you appear to be basing that purely on your gut. i.e something to you doesn't smell right about this? Is that true?

Do you have any good reason to think he would lie or make this up?

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119421072#Comment_119421072

I don't know if he is just mistaken or if there is some other motivation or agenda in play. Perhaps his real goal is getting more autopsies done, and he thought this would attract attention. Perhaps he has an idiosyncratic theory about covid or vaccine pathologies he has locked in on. Who knows.

His findings have not been replicated either by other doctors in the study, or elsewhere, and his conclusions questioned by other scientists.

Apart from stressing that the vaccine seemed to have spurred the development of autoimmune diseases as a side effect, the Chief Pathologist also discovered that it also caused cerebral vein thrombosis in some of the deceased persons he examined. However, he did not specify whether the deceased individuals only had their first shot or were already administered a total of two doses.

Schirmacher’s findings have been brushed off by the Paul-Ehrlich-Institut, the German federal medical regulatory body and research institution for vaccines and biomedicines, as “incomprehensible.” When asked about his opinion about Schirmacher’s claims, senior German immunologist Thomas Mertens related that he does not “know of any data that would allow a justifiable statement to be made here.”

https://theegg.house/covid-19-jab-is-cause-of-death-in-30-40-of-autopsies-of-recently-vaccinated-says-german-chief-pathologist/

There is no reason to assume a high number of unreported vaccination complications or even deaths, emphasized the immunologist Christian Bogdan from the Erlangen University Hospital. “There can also be no question of neglecting the possible dangers of COVID-19 vaccines.” The last few weeks and months in particular have shown that the surveillance system is working well. In Germany, for example, the rare occurrence of cerebral vein thrombosis after vaccination with Astrazeneca (1-2 cases per 100,000 vaccinations) was recognized as a complication, says Bogdan.

https://tlarremore.wordpress.com/2021/08/05/living-and-dying-by-the-choices-we-make/

But somehow Germany would miss that up to 40% of autopsies done on people vaccinated in the 2 weeks died due to vaccines? And that it triggered autoimmune disease and triggered fatal CVT?

As I said, the story doesn't add up.

(a1) Either his is mistaken OR (a2) all the other pathologists are & the experts at the regulatory authorities in multiple countries tracking vaccine reactions - and death following vaccination is notifiable.

(b1) OR he is not mistaken and there is a huge global cover up involving every pathologist and major regulatory authority.

(c1) OR he is not mistaken, nor all other pathologists & experts. Somehow he encountered a batch of people where 30%-40% of people died due to vaccination, and other pathologists have not. I understand vaccines can have 'bad batches' \ too high a dose given, however my understanding is that reactions would be more immediate allergic type reactions and obvious rather than 'auto immune disease'.

a2 and b1 seem highly implausible to me. c1 seems possible but unlikely for the reasons listed.

Therefore my opinion is that a1 seems the most plausible explanation.

hometruths

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119421319#Comment_119421319

The people you are quoting to contradict him are immunologists which I suspect explains his comment

Schirmacher insists on his opinion. "The colleagues are definitely wrong because they cannot judge this specific question competently," he reacted.

And it is not true that no other pathologists have found nothing to see here.

Here is a study of 18 - https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34591186/

In all cases, full autopsies, histopathological examinations, and virological analyses for the severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 were carried out. Depending on the case, additional laboratory tests (anaphylaxis diagnostics, VITT [vaccine-induced immune thrombotic thrombocytopenia] diagnostics, glucose metabolism diagnostics) and neuropathological examinations were conducted.

In 13 deceased, the cause of death was attributed to preexisting diseases while postmortem investigations did not indicate a causal relationship to the vaccination. In one case after vaccination with Comirnaty, myocarditis was found to be the cause of death. A causal relationship to vaccination was considered possible, but could not be proven beyond doubt. VITT was found in three deceased persons following vaccination with Vaxzevria and one deceased following vaccination with Janssen. Of those four cases with VITT, only one was diagnosed before death. The synopsis of the anamnestic data, the autopsy results, laboratory diagnostic examinations, and histopathological and neuropathological examinations revealed that VITT was the very likely cause of death in only two of the four cases. In the other two cases, no neuropathological correlate of VITT explaining death was found, while possible causes of death emerged that were not necessarily attributable to VITT.

So 13 deaths ruled out as nothing to see here. 2 deemed very likely to have been caused by vaccines, and four possible.

And these pathologists found something similiar - https://pathologie-konferenz.de/en/

But hey, I am not going to try and tell you what you can and cannot find plausible. It is unseemly.

And I happen to think this guy sounds plausible. He's certainly an interesting case. He does not appear to have been fact checked, cancelled or discredited like so many, he has just come out with a major bombshell claim, that does not appear to have got much coverage and now appears to have gone quiet on it.

Who knows, maybe he's quietly working away on a study with a ton more autopsies. Time will tell I guess.