GDPR and Irish politics.

KildareP · 23-04-2021 6:52pm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

'Do you have a database?' 'Can you tell us the following....'

Proactive. Not hard work is it?
Give them powers if they dont have them, accept the world is changing and things are going to become digiral. Strikes me the lax reactive environment suited everyone.

Well, you see Francie, here's the problem.

Under the GDPR:
Sinn Fein were supposed to appoint a DPC - they didn't.
Sinn Fein were supposed to do a risk assessment - they didn't.
Sinn Fein are supposed to obtain consent if they are profiling individuals - remains to be seen whether they did this.

But now the DPC is investigating them, you tell us in the opening post that the GDPR is "too restrictive" and are in effect suggesting it should be done away with while simultaneously criticising the DPC for not being proactive.

It seems SF have done no wrong and can do no wrong in your eyes so I'm not sure we're going to get any further in this discussion!

blanch152 · 23-04-2021 6:59pm

KildareP wrote: »

Well, you see Francie, here's the problem.

Under the GDPR:
Sinn Fein were supposed to appoint a DPC - they didn't.
Sinn Fein were supposed to do a risk assessment - they didn't.
Sinn Fein are supposed to obtain consent if they are profiling individuals - remains to be seen whether they did this.

But now the DPC is investigating them, you tell us in the opening post that the GDPR is "too restrictive" and are in effect suggesting it should be done away with while simultaneously criticising the DPC for not being proactive.

It seems SF have done no wrong and can do no wrong in your eyes so I'm not sure we're going to get any further in this discussion!

You know that Shinnister Tom and Jerry picture that isn't a threatening gun, but a symbol of something backfiring. Would it be suitable for the OP, given the reaction to this thread?

Overheal · 23-04-2021 7:17pm

markodaly wrote: »

Brilliant!

I don't think you even know what you just admitted!

What did they admit?

Overheal · 23-04-2021 7:18pm

expectationlost wrote: »

if you increased their tax by 00000000000000000.1% would they leave?

You mean 0.1% ? :pac:

elperello · 23-04-2021 7:18pm

Does anyone have any idea what a profile in such a file would look like?

I'm wondering what sort of information would a profile contain?

Would it be compiled to a template or just individual party activists doing their own thing?

Maybe someone might do up a dummy profile for John A Citizen to show us.

Overheal · 23-04-2021 7:19pm

elperello wrote: »

Does anyone have any idea what a profile in such a file would look like?

I'm wondering what sort of information would a profile contain?

Would it be compiled to a template or just individual party activists doing their own thing?

Maybe someone might do up a dummy profile for John A Citizen to show us.

given that it's likely if you're a voter or whatever you're including and the database, and I would think you have some kind of Freedom of Information law, couldn't you request a copy of data personally tied to you and see how it looks and whats in it?

elperello · 23-04-2021 7:25pm

Overheal wrote: »

given that it's likely if you're a voter or whatever you're including and the database, and I would think you have some kind of Freedom of Information law, couldn't you request a copy of data personally tied to you and see how it looks and whats in it?

Thanks, I understand that one is entitled to know what data is being held about you but I was thinking of something more immediate to help the debate along.

As for myself I'm considering not engaging with any canvassers until this issue is clarified.

23-04-2021 7:29pm

beakerjoe wrote: »

How do you know Ms Bailey didnt submit her complaint before you?

Because I know when I submitted my complaint and it was before the newspaper had published the report on her being in the 10k race so unless she has the power of premonition I know I submitted mine first.

I'm not saying my case warrants a statutory inquiry but I am saying that people who have political connections get processes like this done quicker than those of us that don't

maccored · 23-04-2021 7:32pm

blanch152 wrote: »

If the database consists of the electoral register and nothing else, there is no problem. The question, is to what purpose is such a database, unless you include other information garnered from voters. Unless you get the consent of every single voter for that other information you put on that database, then there is a problem, and it is a big one, given the nature of the database.

This would affect ALL political parties - so the next few weeks and months should be interesting til we see what falls out of the tree. Im sure though blanch152, you'll find excuses where suits

maccored · 23-04-2021 7:33pm

KildareP wrote: »

Well, you see Francie, here's the problem.

Under the GDPR:
Sinn Fein were supposed to appoint a DPC - they didn't.
Sinn Fein were supposed to do a risk assessment - they didn't.
Sinn Fein are supposed to obtain consent if they are profiling individuals - remains to be seen whether they did this.

But now the DPC is investigating them, you tell us in the opening post that the GDPR is "too restrictive" and are in effect suggesting it should be done away with while simultaneously criticising the DPC for not being proactive.

It seems SF have done no wrong and can do no wrong in your eyes so I'm not sure we're going to get any further in this discussion!

Sinn Fein were supposed to appoint a DPC - they didn't. - they have
Sinn Fein were supposed to do a risk assessment - they didn't. - they have
Sinn Fein are supposed to obtain consent if they are profiling individuals - remains to be seen whether they did this. - this is gossip, and in fact in the program you mentioned earlier, it was agreed there was nothing to back this up

Overheal · 23-04-2021 7:35pm

elperello wrote: »

Thanks, I understand that one is entitled to know what data is being held about you but I was thinking of something more immediate to help the debate along.

As for myself I'm considering not engaging with any canvassers until this issue is clarified.

Just tell them you worship Satan and all will be well. If you cannot stop the uncomfortable collection of your data: mistreat it

FrancieBrady · 23-04-2021 7:39pm

Overheal wrote: »

Just tell them you worship Satan and all will be well. If you cannot stop the uncomfortable collection of your data: mistreat it

:D
Basically anything they write about voting intentions would be a guess anyway, as people change their mind these days.

Junkyard Tom · 23-04-2021 7:45pm

It seems to me in the Irish corporate media's desperation to smear SF they've been exposing just how much shit they've been letting slide with the perennial FF/FG duopoly.

It really is remarkable observing how the establishment raises the drawbridge and starts flinging its shit over the wall when the villagers start demanding change.

KildareP · 23-04-2021 7:48pm

maccored wrote: »

Sinn Fein were supposed to appoint a DPC - they didn't. - they have
Sinn Fein were supposed to do a risk assessment - they didn't. - they have
Sinn Fein are supposed to obtain consent if they are profiling individuals - remains to be seen whether they did this. - this is gossip, and in fact in the program you mentioned earlier, it was agreed there was nothing to back this up

They have since appointed a DPC and did a risk assessment but only *after* the DPC had been in touch. Pity they couldn't show that same proactivity you critique the DPC for not showing (despite the rules stating it is up to the data controller - Sinn Fein in this case - to proactively put in place all of the required controls for the GDPR and the DPC role is to investigate and enforce breaches).

We don't know that it is gossip until the investigation but the DPC and ICO is complete.

Anyway, I am clocking out for the evening before I suffer tennis elbow from all this deflection!

FrancieBrady · 23-04-2021 7:58pm

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

It seems to me in the Irish corporate media's desperation to smear SF they've been exposing just how much shit they've been letting slide with the perennial FF/FG duopoly.

It really is remarkable observing how the establishment raises the drawbridge and starts flinging its shit over the wall when the villagers start demanding change.

I made the point that if successive governments have not resourced the DPC properly it's a bit rich to be attaching importance to breaches now.

Much more important is the breaches outside the political sphere I would imagine.

AndrewJRenko · 23-04-2021 8:14pm

Floppybits wrote: »

GDPR has been the greatest gift to the government departments. They can now deny anything and everything and cite GDPR as the reason why they can do something and they just love hiding behind it. Remember the all the guest signing books are tourist locations being removed because of GDPR and then having to be put back.

No, guest books aren't being removed.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/visitor-books-return-to-heritage-sites-after-privacy-fears-clarified-1.3967543?mode=amp

And yes, some people use GDPR as an excuse.

But it is fairly easy to address this.

AndrewJRenko · 23-04-2021 8:16pm

beakerjoe wrote: »

Seriously? You need employees. they dont have an endless supply of employees. Its a very small organization.

More importantly, you don't ask questions unless you have the resources to deal with the answers to those questions.

maccored · 23-04-2021 8:17pm

KildareP wrote: »

They have since appointed a DPC and did a risk assessment but only *after* the DPC had been in touch. Pity they couldn't show that same proactivity you critique the DPC for not showing (despite the rules stating it is up to the data controller - Sinn Fein in this case - to proactively put in place all of the required controls for the GDPR and the DPC role is to investigate and enforce breaches).

We don't know that it is gossip until the investigation but the DPC and ICO is complete.

gossip is making assumptions without the info ....so we do know this is gossip.

KildareP wrote: »

Anyway, I am clocking out for the evening before I suffer tennis elbow from all this deflection!

Indeed you should stop the deflection in that case.

Floppybits · 23-04-2021 8:37pm

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

No, guest books aren't being removed.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/visitor-books-return-to-heritage-sites-after-privacy-fears-clarified-1.3967543?mode=amp

And yes, some people use GDPR as an excuse.

But it is fairly easy to address this.

I think you misquoted me can you correct your post. I never said guest books are being removed, I said remember when they were removed.

Please make sure you quote people accurately

23-04-2021 8:57pm

Not sure this thread is working out as expected......

FrancieBrady · 23-04-2021 9:14pm

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

More importantly, you don't ask questions unless you have the resources to deal with the answers to those questions.

You don't fulfil your monitoring and enforcement remit without the resources.

elperello · 23-04-2021 9:31pm

Overheal wrote: »

Just tell them you worship Satan and all will be well. If you cannot stop the uncomfortable collection of your data: mistreat it

I'm not sure I want to play games with this issue.

MLMcD said on Newstalk that the database "is really an old-fashioned canvassing system".

I wonder what the old fashioned canvassers would have made of someone claiming to worship Satan?

At least in their day it was all stored in their head or maybe a spiral notebook.

FrancieBrady · 23-04-2021 9:39pm

elperello wrote: »

I'm not sure I want to play games with this issue.

MLMcD said on Newstalk that the database "is really an old-fashioned canvassing system".

I wonder what the old fashioned canvassers would have made of someone claiming to worship Satan?

At least in their day it was all stored in their head or maybe a spiral notebook.

But they are guessing in a lot of instances these days, Jimmy Leonard FF once told me he could tell you how every house in my street voted back in the 70's. Changed times.

Overheal · 23-04-2021 9:45pm

If the corruption in the US is one to go by you'd want to be careful about that sort of data anyway. Here they use that type of data to gerrymander etc. for example, you could see politicians etc. deciding how to carve up motorways etc. based on whether it will be of more benefit to one corner of the neighborhood that votes for them or the other.

jmcc · 23-04-2021 9:50pm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

You don't fulfil your monitoring and enforcement remit without the resources.

There was a time (a few years go) when the DPC had a small office beside a shop in Portlaoise. Not the most highly staffed and prioritised organisation. The Schrems cases ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Max_Schrems#Schrems_I ) changed that somewhat.

Regards...jmcc

elperello · 23-04-2021 9:51pm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

But they are guessing in a lot of instances these days, Jimmy Leonard FF once told me he could tell you how every house in my street voted back in the 70's. Changed times.

Point taken, they were proud of their craft just like the tallymen but it seems a bit like an ability from a bygone age.

So why is this 21st century fancy pants database hosted in Frankfurt being described as more of the same?

Is it perhaps just someone spending a budget?

23-04-2021 10:32pm

Overheal wrote: »

If the corruption in the US is one to go by you'd want to be careful about that sort of data anyway. Here they use that type of data to gerrymander etc. for example, you could see politicians etc. deciding how to carve up motorways etc. based on whether it will be of more benefit to one corner of the neighborhood that votes for them or the other.

Wait til you hear about Ray Burke and the trees.

Overheal · 23-04-2021 10:49pm

fvp4 wrote: »

Wait too you hear about Ray Burke and the trees.

oh?

edit: instantly found this gas, how do you say, schadenfreudistic article about it. Easily the most Irish thing I've read in years. Brilliant. But I'm not sure exactly about the trees reference still https://www.irishexaminer.com/opinion/columnists/arid-10127484.html

23-04-2021 10:57pm

yeh, that and this one:

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/stroke-politics-from-disappearing-trees-to-a-non-irish-gaeltacht-1.3238353

On the eve of the poll, then minister for the environment Ray Burke and a group of workmen arrived into a housing estate that had been looking for a landscaping scheme and proceeded to plant trees in every green area. However, the day after polling, and after Fianna Fáil had lost, the workmen returned to take back all the trees.

From the story I heard, they knew from their own register and from tallying votes from the ballot boxes in the area that the trees had garnered no extra votes. So down they went.

SF in the ha-penny place compared to that political machine.

Overheal · 23-04-2021 10:59pm

fvp4 wrote: »

yeh, that and this one:

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/stroke-politics-from-disappearing-trees-to-a-non-irish-gaeltacht-1.3238353

On the eve of the poll, then minister for the environment Ray Burke and a group of workmen arrived into a housing estate that had been looking for a landscaping scheme and proceeded to plant trees in every green area. However, the day after polling, and after Fianna Fáil had lost, the workmen returned to take back all the trees.

From the story I heard, they knew from their own register and from tallying votes from the ballot boxes in the area that the trees had garnered no extra votes. So down they went.

SF in the ha-penny place compared to that political machine.

Oh mylanta. Did all of them fail the Roll for self awareness about how easily that would blowback! :pac:

GDPR and Irish politics.

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