Andrew Brown Shooting (US)

AmyMurphy22

Overheal wrote: »

The family has finally seen *part* of one body camera video. 20 seconds, despite half a dozen or more officers on scene. Reportedly the incident shown displays Brown with both hands on his steering wheel while he is being shot multiple times. The vehicle was reportedly unable to go anywhere as it was blocked into the driveway by police.

The family attorney referred to the killing as an execution. The police already were firing on Brown at the beginning of the 20 second clip, making it unclear what moment they began firing for or why.

https://www.mediaite.com/tv/andrew-browns-family-decry-his-execution-by-police-after-finally-seeing-20-second-snippet-of-body-cam-video/

Sounds horrific. Hope they release all the footage and those police are brought to justice.

Overheal

We still don’t know what happened but it’s terrible optics right now for the police. Reports on the clip are that while his car was blocked in he drove the truck onto the grass and crashed it into a tree once the shooting started. The entire time the cops were shooting at the drivers side, reportedly some with rifles, shouting “show me your hands etc” while he was already being shot at, with at least one of the bullets striking him in the back of the head. Initially it doesn’t sound like they needed to kill him nor did he amount to an imminent mortal threat. But we don’t know more definitively yet.

The hearing for the court order to release the footage will be held this Wednesday at 10 AM eastern

hawley

Overheal wrote: »

We still don’t know what happened but it’s terrible optics right now for the police. Reports on the clip are that while his car was blocked in he drove the truck onto the grass and crashed it into a tree once the shooting started. The entire time the cops were shooting at the drivers side, reportedly some with rifles, shouting “show me your hands etc” while he was already being shot at, with at least one of the bullets striking him in the back of the head. Initially it doesn’t sound like they needed to kill him nor did he amount to an imminent mortal threat. But we don’t know more definitively yet.

The hearing for the court order to release the footage will be held this Wednesday at 10 AM eastern

This sounds absolutely horrific. At least with the George Floyd, they could say it was one cop on a power trip. This sounds like murder.

BattleCorp

hawley wrote: »

This sounds absolutely horrific. At least with the George Floyd, they could say it was one cop on a power trip. This sounds like murder.

You know, you probably should wait for the video to be released before you make up your mind about it being murder.

TanookiMario

Overheal wrote: »

Do these numbers excuse the behavior of any cop in an incident of police brutality? Didn’t I already mention how drastically America changed after 9/11 even though it only happened once? We can do better than “it doesn’t happen more than a couple thousand times a year so why should be attentive to deaths of suspects at the hands of police?”

Why can't you just answer the bloody questions posed? Or admit that you don't know the answers.

This isn't an American site (though maybe you live in America?) so conversations about the US should at least involve some data rather than "we can do better". What does that even mean?

It makes little sense for people in Ireland to be constantly investing time to talk about US race issues but it makes even less sense for someone to have a blatant bias.

Why not just answer the questions you were asked?

Overheal

TanookiMario wrote: »

Why can't you just answer the bloody questions posed? Or admit that you don't know the answers.

This isn't an American site (though maybe you live in America?) so conversations about the US should at least involve some data rather than "we can do better". What does that even mean?

It makes little sense for people in Ireland to be constantly investing time to talk about US race issues but it makes even less sense for someone to have a blatant bias.

Why not just answer the questions you were asked?

I provided answers. The questions were rhetorical, so were the answers, proportionately.

If the user wishes to ask me for specific data on crimes: there is google, and expecting me to be the google is shifting the burden of proof.

Clearly, they had a decent idea about the context of the numbers, as did I. If you wish to post the numbers, nobody is stopping you, and I am no gatekeeper for it.

Whinging about US threads is already being whinged about in Feedback.

Overheal

Independent autopsy commissioned by the family is completed.

Andrew Brown was killed by gunfire of course. Struck by 5 shots, 1 to the back of the head. The other 4 hit his right arm.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/andrew-brown-jr-shot-five-times-once-back-head-according-n1265460

That head shot was fired from "intermediate" range and penetrated Brown's skull and brain, according to Hall, who is based in Boone, North Carolina.

The bullet wound to the back of Brown's head had a trajectory of "bottom to top, left to right and back to front," Hall's report said.

"This, in fact, was a fatal wound to the back of Mr. Brown's head as he was leaving the site trying to evade being shot at by these particular law enforcement officers that we believe did nothing but a straight up execution," family lawyer Wayne Kendall told reporters during a press conference.

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Hall's report confirmed findings of a state death certificate that showed Brown was shot five times, once in the head and four other times — in the right shoulder, twice in the upper right arm and once more around his right elbow.

It called Brown's immediate cause of death: "Penetrating gunshot wound of the head."

Trajectory suggests to me he might have had his head ducked down with a bullet coming from behind him

BattleCorp

Overheal wrote: »

Andrew Brown was killed by gunfire of course. Struck by 5 shots, 1 to the back of the head. The other 4 hit his right arm.

Trajectory suggests to me he might have had his head ducked down with a bullet coming from behind him

Be interesting to see all of the footage. I assume it will all be released eventually, is that the case?

hawley

New video released in the past hour. It seems like the police started shooting straight off. We need to see more of the footage but it seems fairly conclusive. Andrew Brown's son called it an extrajudicial assault.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2021/04/28/us/andrew-brown-elizabeth-city-shooting-wednesday/index.html

A new video shows that no more than four seconds passed between when Pasquotank Sheriff's deputies arrived at Andrew Brown Jr.'s home and when shots began to ring out, a family attorney said Tuesday.

"This was, in fact, an extrajudicial killing, an execution if you will," Brown family attorney Wayne Kendall told CNN's John Berman. "Mr. Brown's car never moved toward those deputies."

CNN obtained the video, which shows the deputies arriving on scene. It is, however, not clear what is being said in the video or when the shooting started.

Nozebleed

If CNN obtained the video...its doctored somehow...they've dont it before and the will continue to do it.

BattleCorp

hawley wrote: »

New video released in the past hour. It seems like the police started shooting straight off. We need to see more of the footage but it seems fairly conclusive. Andrew Brown's son called it an extrajudicial assault.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2021/04/28/us/andrew-brown-elizabeth-city-shooting-wednesday/index.html

Having watched the short clip in the above link where the cops arrive in the back of the pickup truck and jump out at the end of his driveway, it's quite possible that Brown was reversing his truck towards them with the potential to run over them. Maybe this is the reason for them opening fire.

I'm not saying that as a fact, but it's possible as the cops would be in his driveway. I'd like to see a lot more footage before I deem it an extrajudicial killing.

Manic Moran

BattleCorp wrote: »

Having watched the short clip in the above link where the cops arrive in the back of the pickup truck and jump out at the end of his driveway, it's quite possible that Brown was reversing his truck towards them with the potential to run over them. Maybe this is the reason for them opening fire.

I'm not saying that as a fact, but it's possible as the cops would be in his driveway. I'd like to see a lot more footage before I deem it an extrajudicial killing.

I'm inclined to agree with this assessment on a tactical/legal basis (Driving run over someone is considered assault with a deadly weapon), but I'm also a little curious as to why they felt the need to use a small special tactics team in a pickup and wonder whether or not that gave them an unwarranted pre-disposition to shoot.

Overheal

hawley wrote: »

New video released in the past hour. It seems like the police started shooting straight off. We need to see more of the footage but it seems fairly conclusive. Andrew Brown's son called it an extrajudicial assault.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2021/04/28/us/andrew-brown-elizabeth-city-shooting-wednesday/index.html

A new video shows that no more than four seconds passed between when Pasquotank Sheriff's deputies arrived at Andrew Brown Jr.'s home and when shots began to ring out, a family attorney said Tuesday.

"This was, in fact, an extrajudicial killing, an execution if you will," Brown family attorney Wayne Kendall told CNN's John Berman. "Mr. Brown's car never moved toward those deputies."

CNN obtained the video, which shows the deputies arriving on scene. It is, however, not clear what is being said in the video or when the shooting started.

According to the landlord for Browns family there were CCTV cameras on the property before the incident but these have since been removed. It is unclear who removed them. Wow.

Overheal

Manic Moran wrote: »

I'm inclined to agree with this assessment on a tactical/legal basis (Driving run over someone is considered assault with a deadly weapon), but I'm also a little curious as to why they felt the need to use a small special tactics team in a pickup and wonder whether or not that gave them an unwarranted pre-disposition to shoot.

The Nixon War on Drugs, ladies and gentlemen.

wicklowstevo

hawley wrote: »

This sounds absolutely horrific. At least with the George Floyd, they could say it was one cop on a power trip. This sounds like murder.

i would encourage any one not to take information from this source at face value as it is regularly exposed as untrue

do your own research is best bet

BattleCorp

Overheal wrote: »

According to the landlord for Browns family there were CCTV cameras on the property before the incident but these have since been removed. It is unclear who removed them. Wow.

I know I often fall on the side of the cops so maybe I'm biased but the removal of the CCTV cameras (presumably by the family) certainly seems dodgy.

I wonder did the cops get a copy of the footage (if any exists) before the system was removed?

Overheal

BattleCorp wrote: »

I know I often fall on the side of the cops so maybe I'm biased but the removal of the CCTV cameras (presumably by the family) certainly seems dodgy.

I wonder did the cops get a copy of the footage (if any exists) before the system was removed?

Yeah I don’t know. Hard to say how recently the landlords knowledge is, as Brown is alleged to have been dealing drugs actively enough to warrant such a hostile looking warrant squad, it’s reasonably possible he too could have taken them down. I wouldn’t count on getting footage from them. And it would be somewhat difficult to get away with removal if it was the police, surreptitiously, with the family and so many bystanders around after the fact?

2 officers involved have resigned, 1 has retired. 5 are on paid leave.

BattleCorp

Overheal wrote: »

Yeah I don’t know. Hard to say how recently the landlords knowledge is, as Brown is alleged to have been dealing drugs actively enough to warrant such a hostile looking warrant squad, it’s reasonably possible he too could have taken them down. I wouldn’t count on getting footage from them. And it would be somewhat difficult to get away with removal if it was the police, surreptitiously, with the family and so many bystanders around after the fact?

2 officers involved have resigned, 1 has retired. 5 are on paid leave.

I'm flip-flopping all over the place with regard to this. I was sort of on the cops side watching the video but if cops are resigning and retiring, that isn't a good look. I guess we really do need to see all of the footage before coming to a judgement.

Not a chance it was the police who removed the CCTV cameras. The Brown Family would have been shouting about that the second it happened. My guess is it was the family who removed them. Now the question is, were they there at the time of the shooting or were they removed before that?

Overheal

BattleCorp wrote: »

I'm flip-flopping all over the place with regard to this. I was sort of on the cops side watching the video but if cops are resigning and retiring, that isn't a good look. I guess we really do need to see all of the footage before coming to a judgement.

Not a chance it was the police who removed the CCTV cameras. The Brown Family would have been shouting about that the second it happened. My guess is it was the family who removed them. Now the question is, were they there at the time of the shooting or were they removed before that?

If they were there I doubt the family would have removed them, the cops would have seen them and retrieved video. nothing in the case indicates the family are trying to hide anything, but the opposite they want everything published. Doing my best to give the police the benefit of the doubt because of NC body camera disclosure law inserted into the situation

hawley

The judge has blocked the release of the bodycam footage. If we hadn't seen the footage by the bystander in the George Floyd, there might not have been a conviction. This is an absolute s**tshow.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna1265624
North Carolina judge on Wednesday rejected a bid to have body camera footage of sheriff's deputies shooting Andrew Brown Jr. released to the public — but said the man's family would be allowed to view it.

Superior Court Judge Jeff Foster said turning over footage to news media could affect a potential trial of law enforcement officers who opened fire while serving a warrant on the 42-year-old Black man in Elizabeth City, North Carolina.

AmyMurphy22

hawley wrote: »

The judge has blocked the release of the bodycam footage. If we hadn't seen the footage by the bystander in the George Floyd, there might not have been a conviction. This is an absolute s**tshow.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna1265624
North Carolina judge on Wednesday rejected a bid to have body camera footage of sheriff's deputies shooting Andrew Brown Jr. released to the public — but said the man's family would be allowed to view it.

Superior Court Judge Jeff Foster said turning over footage to news media could affect a potential trial of law enforcement officers who opened fire while serving a warrant on the 42-year-old Black man in Elizabeth City, North Carolina.

Ridiculous decision. The family will say what happened anyway (in their opinion). So why not release the footage and let people make up their own minds.

AmyMurphy22

hawley wrote: »

Superior Court Judge Jeff Foster said turning over footage to news media could affect a potential trial of law enforcement officers who opened fire while serving a warrant on the 42-year-old Black man in Elizabeth City, North Carolina.

That seems to suggest it was an unlawful killing.

Manic Moran

AmyMurphy22 wrote: »

That seems to suggest it was an unlawful killing.

Could also suggest the opposite, that there was a fear that selected parts could be broadcast out of context and prejudice a jury.

Or it may just be that judge's personal inclination to restrict such things until the trial as a matter of general policy.

AmyMurphy22

Manic Moran wrote: »

Could also suggest the opposite, that there was a fear that selected parts could be broadcast out of context and prejudice a jury.

Or it may just be that judge's personal inclination to restrict such things until the trial as a matter of general policy.

True. I'm perhaps reading too much into it.

Overheal

It's more often the case when you see these cases get headlines it's when the video is released and that's commonly months or sometimes even years after the fact because it's been in litigation.

The decision is frustrating and won't be helped by the find of third party videos

hawley

The cops are saying that he was driving toward them with intent. The family are saying that he was driving away. President Biden wants to help communities heal, but we need to see the footage. His family are calling it an extrajudicial assassination.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2021/04/29/us/andrew-brown-elizabeth-city-shooting-thursday/index.html

The family of Andrew Brown Jr. and the local district attorney offered different accounts Wednesday as to what led to the fatal police shooting of the Black man last week in Elizabeth City, North Carolina.

The family and their attorneys have been allowed to see some of the police bodycam footage and a judge ruled Wednesday the family can view more of them, but Judge Jeff Foster denied media requests to make the videos public for at least 30 days.

Pasquotank County District Attorney Andrew Womble said officers fired when the car Brown was driving went toward them. Brown's family and attorneys, who had watched a 20-second video snippet earlier this week, said he was driving away to save his life from gunfire.

Potatoeman

This sounds like a swatting, where someone calls the police and say you have a gun. If you do not full comply they will shot to kill. There were people doing this to streamers a while back and one guy got shot and killed.

hawley

The seven deputies identified by Wooten:

Investigator Daniel Meads (on administrative leave)

Deputy Sheriff II Robert Morgan (on administrative leave)

Cpl. Aaron Lewellyn (on administrative leave)

Lt. Steven Judd (active duty)

Sgt. Michael Swindell (active duty)

Sgt. Kenneth Bishop (active duty)

Sgt. Joel Lunsford (active duty)


Elizabeth City's police department on Thursday said it had issued a "violation warning" as a group of about 50 people gathered after the city's curfew. It marked the ninth night of peaceful protests in the city.

Elizabeth City Councilor Gabriel Adkins earlier asked protestors to respect the city's 8 p.m. curfew: "If you choose to stay out, stay out of the road." He said he hoped the city could lift that curfew as soon as Friday.

While police previously targeted journalists for enforcement after curfew, the city on Thursday clarified that working journalists would not be subject to the curfew, according to a letter from William H. Morgan, Jr., Elizabeth City's attorney.

Among the chants heard in the streets Thursday evening: "Release the tapes — the whole tapes" and “You can’t hide, you committed homicide.”

Ikisha Brothers said it was important for her to be a part of the protest. She went to school with Brown and said it was heartbreaking how the past week has unfolded.

More than anything, Brothers said she wants the tapes released for the family.

Before dusk Thursday, a group of protesters stopped at yards away from where Brown was shot. They held a moment of silence broken only by the rumble of truck engines as supporters followed behind.

The silence ended as a voice in the crowd shouted, “Say his name.”

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.usatoday.com/amp/4885989001

This isabsolutely shocking and could end up causing a huge problem. It seems to be a lived experience for people of color in the US. The family need to see the tapes in order to have some peace or if they decide that they're going to take a case against the officers involved.

BattleCorp

hawley wrote: »

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.usatoday.com/amp/4885989001

If that article is accurate ..........

"As it backs up, it does make contact with law enforcement officers,” Womble said. The car stops again, according to Womble, and, “the next movement of the car is forward. It is in the direction of law enforcement and makes contact with law enforcement. It is then and only then that you hear shots.”

I've flipped again back towards being in favour of the cops. Pity they haven't released the video footage yet.

wicklowstevo

BattleCorp wrote: »

If that article is accurate ..........

"As it backs up, it does make contact with law enforcement officers,” Womble said. The car stops again, according to Womble, and, “the next movement of the car is forward. It is in the direction of law enforcement and makes contact with law enforcement. It is then and only then that you hear shots.”

I've flipped again back towards being in favour of the cops. Pity they haven't released the video footage yet.

from that it seems he was ramming back and forth trying to get away and wasnt at all bothered about killing or hurting some cops

defending ones life is hardly a crime