Female Police officer stabbed to death in France

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

biko wrote: »

There were two trainee doctors that died in Syria and Iraq after coming under jihadist influence during studies in Ireland.
Mustapha al-Hayani, a graduate of NUIG’s medical programme, and Tariq Mohainuteen, a visiting Malaysian student, joined the jihadist group Isis in September 2013.

The Islamists just haven't killed anyone here yet. We have to wait for that to happen before some will care it seems.

Not expecting a straight answer, but what exactly is it that you want done here? Ban all Muslims or ban all extremeists? Or something else in which case what?

Overheal

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

Not expecting a straight answer, but what exactly is it that you want done here? Ban all Muslims or ban all extremeists? Or something else in which case what?

Obviously it’s only to care about Stephanié and nothing to do with barely veiled Islamiphobia

AmyMurphy22

Overheal wrote: »

Obviously it’s only to care about Stephanié and nothing to do with barely veiled Islamiphobia

"Islamiphobia" (sic) is a nonsense term. It is 100% rational to be fearful of this dangerous form of Islamic theology, which is all I see people discussing. "Islamiphobia" (sic) is a term invented to silence and shame critics of political Islam.

grassylawn

Overheal wrote: »

Obviously it’s only to care about Stephanié and nothing to do with barely veiled Islamiphobia

Barely veiled!? The harlot!

Overheal

AmyMurphy22 wrote: »

"Islamiphobia" (sic) is a nonsense term. It is 100% rational to be fearful of this dangerous form of Islamic theology, which is all I see people discussing. "Islamiphobia" (sic) is a term invented to silence and shame critics of political Islam.

If it's a nonsense term why bother being a grammar nazi about how it was spelled?

jmayo

Overheal wrote: »

Obviously it’s only to care about Stephanié and nothing to do with barely veiled Islamiphobia

How come we never hear about Christianophobia, yet christians are one of the most put upon religious groups in huge chunks of the world.

How come shag all of ye seem to give two fecks about how the christian population, that existed for nigh on millennia, in parts of the muslim world have been decimated in recent years?

Oh wait it would happen to be in parts of the world where those poor lads that are suffering from all that islamophobia hail from.

PS Stephanie would be alive today, but for most pervasive influence of the worst of islam.

Overheal

jmayo wrote: »

How come we never hear about Christianophobia, yet christians are one of the most put upon religious groups in huge chunks of the world.

How come shag all of ye seem to give two fecks about how the christian population, that existed for nigh on millennia, in parts of the muslim world have been decimated in recent years?

Oh wait it would happen to be in parts of the world where those poor lads that are suffering from all that islamophobia hail from.

PS Stephanie would be alive today, but for most pervasive influence of the worst of islam.

Seem is the operative word.

Don't think we've seen any thread in here in months about anything of the sort. Seemingly you don't either, so. I don't see how all but in the most tangential of senses that Christian persecution has any constructive relation to the stabbing in France.

You also seem to have, amusingly, given an example of 'Christianophobia' immediately after mocking its existence.

Cordell

biko wrote: »

There were two trainee doctors that died in Syria and Iraq after coming under jihadist influence during studies in Ireland.
Mustapha al-Hayani, a graduate of NUIG’s medical programme, and Tariq Mohainuteen, a visiting Malaysian student, joined the jihadist group Isis in September 2013.

The Islamists just haven't killed anyone here yet. We have to wait for that to happen before some will care it seems.

When (not if) it will happen we will be told that it had nothing to do with islam. And that we are islamophobes to say otherwise.

Overheal

Cordell wrote: »

When (not if) it will happen we will be told that it had nothing to do with islam. And that we are islamophobes to say otherwise.

You're mistaken.

Islam of course factors into this.

What doesn't factor into this is any conclusions that broadstroke 1.8 billion people.

Dyr

Here's some broad strokes

1.8 billion people who havent managed to create a proper democratic state between them.

Overheal

Bambi wrote: »

Here's some broad strokes

1.8 billion people who havent managed to create a proper democratic state between them.

I could say the same of billions more. I'm not sure this broad stroke adds anything to the topic.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Overheal wrote: »

I could say the same of billions more. I'm not sure this broad stroke adds anything to the topic.

Any word from Biko, yet?

Cordell

Overheal wrote: »

You're mistaken.

Islam of course factors into this.

What doesn't factor into this is any conclusions that broadstroke 1.8 billion people.

The fact that so many people follow this ideology doesn't make it any better. If anything, it makes it worse.

Overheal

Cordell wrote: »

The fact that so many people follow this ideology doesn't make it any better. If anything, it makes it worse.

How's that

jmreire

Overheal wrote: »

How's that

Are you actually follower yourself Overheal? and if not, have you ever considered becoming a Muslim??

grassylawn

Bambi wrote: »

Here's some broad strokes

1.8 billion people who havent managed to create a proper democratic state between them.

Interesting.

I think you are not right. Indonesia, Malaysia and Tunisia are democracies and have Muslim majorities. Their combined population is over 300 million. The democracy index classifies them as flawed democracies. Note that it only classifies 23 countries as full democracies, which does not include the USA or France, but does include Ireland.

I am not going to do deeper research on the political systems of these countries but with my current knowledge I accept them as proper democracies, by my interpretation of the term.

But you have a point, one way or another. Far more countries with Muslim majorities are authoritarian.

Overheal

jmreire wrote: »

Are you actually follower yourself Overheal? and if not, have you ever considered becoming a Muslim??

I'm not the topic, and I fail to see how that addresses the point. But, please, go on @Cordell.

Cordell

I think my point was quite clear: a bad ideology is made worse by the fact that it has so many followers.

biko

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

Any word from Biko, yet?

How about you answer me first?

biko wrote: »

Do you have a solution for these attacks, or do you not?

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

Do you?

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Do you?

biko wrote: »

I asked you first

Tbh, if you can't even admit there is a problem with Islamist attacks in Europe then I understand you can't think in terms of problem/solution.
Are you hoping it'll just go away by itself if you are kind enough to strangers?

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

biko wrote: »

How about you answer me first?

Well, because YOU presented the problem first. YOU dragged other stories into it for spurious reasons. YOU acted by posting, we are reacting to YOUR posts demanding a solution - otherwise, well why are you asking us?

biko wrote: »

The evidence so far points to an radical Islamist attack.
His ideology caused him to stab a woman in the neck, just like other attacks we have read about in this forum.

Do you have a solution for these attacks, or do you not?
Who will be the next Stéphanie?
I don't know yet but I know there sadly will be another.

So firstly - YOU either admit to not having a solution or present your solution first for debate, THEN ask others for theirs. No point in just saying "we have a problem", everyone's aware of this. It's not exactly news.

Secondly - I asked you what did you want done? Nothing?

Tbh, if you can't even admit there is a problem with Islamist attacks in Europe then I understand you can't think in terms of problem/solution.
Are you hoping it'll just go away by itself if you are kind enough to strangers?

If we can't, then you would; but we can, so you're not.

First step to solution? Get an honest accurate summation of what is going on instead of presenting lies and baseless assumptions.

So again:

HOW are you defining the problem and what solution are you presenting?

biko

Ok, since you have nothing I will throw you some bones.

1 Only documented immigrants are allowed into the country.
No confirmed identity that we can verify means you have to seek asylum elsewhere.
If you have no verifiable documents at the Irish border we fly you back to the airport you came from for free.

2 Every asylum seeker is assigned to an unpaid Irish volunteer to help assimilate them into Irish society for their first 10 years. Any volunteer can only have 2 asylum seekers at any one time.

3 If you are found guilty of a crime that can lead to prison sentence you are deported, or held until you can be deported.

Overheal

Overheal wrote: »

Obviously it’s only to care about Stephanié and nothing to do with barely veiled Islamiphobia

You think "Islamophobes" are happy about attacks like this? Because it furthers their agenda right?

This is precisely what people termed "islamophobes" have been warning/arguing AGAINST for the past few years. Yes, attacks like this one vindicate the arguments, but it gives no one any pleasure to be "right" that their fears were proven to be justified.

biko

biko wrote: »

Ok, since you have nothing I will throw you some bones.

1 Only documented immigrants are allowed into the country.
No confirmed identity that we can verify means you have to seek asylum elsewhere.
If you have no verifiable documents at the Irish border we fly you back to the airport you came from for free.

2 Every asylum seeker is assigned to an unpaid Irish volunteer to help assimilate them into Irish society for their first 10 years. Any volunteer can only have 2 asylum seekers at any one time.

3 If you are found guilty of a crime that can lead to prison sentence you are deported, or held until you can be deported.

I think these are the types of conversations that should be happening. A system that benefits GENUINE asylum seekers as well as the indigenous population.

Timberrrrrrrr

biko wrote: »

Ok, since you have nothing I will throw you some bones.

1 Only documented immigrants are allowed into the country.
No confirmed identity that we can verify means you have to seek asylum elsewhere.
If you have no verifiable documents at the Irish border we fly you back to the airport you came from for free.

2 Every asylum seeker is assigned to an unpaid Irish volunteer to help assimilate them into Irish society for their first 10 years. Any volunteer can only have 2 asylum seekers at any one time.

3 If you are found guilty of a crime that can lead to prison sentence you are deported, or held until you can be deported.

Charlie Hebdo attackers, born in France

3 of the 4 London bombers were born in the UK, The other was from Jamaica.

And many more are the same so your "solution" starts to fail at the first hurdle.

This most recent attack, going by your rules for asylum above, would have still happened. Also who the fudge is going to volunteer for a ten year unpaid position :rolleyes:

biko

biko wrote: »

Ok, since you have nothing I will throw you some bones.

1 Only documented immigrants are allowed into the country.
No confirmed identity that we can verify means you have to seek asylum elsewhere.
If you have no verifiable documents at the Irish border we fly you back to the airport you came from for free.

2 Every asylum seeker is assigned to an unpaid Irish volunteer to help assimilate them into Irish society for their first 10 years. Any volunteer can only have 2 asylum seekers at any one time.

3 If you are found guilty of a crime that can lead to prison sentence you are deported, or held until you can be deported.

So you believe that would stop any terrorist attacks from happening in Ireland?
I doubt it, that's just purely an anti asylum seeker post.

No.1, fair enough and I think that's pretty much what is happening, but we cannot refuse people based on no documentation. If a person is a genuine asylum seeker they may have escaped from a situation where they cannot get documents.
Checks are done to verify stories and people are refused asylum.

No.2, what is your idea of assimilating into Irish society? What would that involve?
Why do we need volunteers? Can the government not run language courses for example?

No.3, if you are found guilty of a crime then you should serve your sentence. What about the victims? Do they not deserve to see justice done? Many people are deported once their sentence is served.

Why do you believe only asylum seekers can become terrorists?
I don't believe this will stop possible terrorist attacks, disenfranchised young men, who feel out of place in society are most likely to be radicalized. They give them something to believe in and a sense of belonging. That's where you need to start.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

biko wrote: »

Ok, since you have nothing I will throw you some bones.

1 Only documented immigrants are allowed into the country.
No confirmed identity that we can verify means you have to seek asylum elsewhere.
If you have no verifiable documents at the Irish border we fly you back to the airport you came from for free.

2 Every asylum seeker is assigned to an unpaid Irish volunteer to help assimilate them into Irish society for their first 10 years. Any volunteer can only have 2 asylum seekers at any one time.

3 If you are found guilty of a crime that can lead to prison sentence you are deported, or held until you can be deported.

Id have no problem with any of these being implemented, but they haven't a hope of achieving what you want to achieve, so it's a bit pointless getting hysterical and linking to random news articles and demanding pointless crap that just makes you look bigoted.

biko

We know from experience Islamist attacks happen mainly where the Islamists live.
There are hardly no attacks in countries with a low percentage of Muslims.
Islamists tend not to travel to other countries to attack there (although it has happened).

So in short, bringing in Muslims means you increase the risk of a Islamist attack.
For some that appears to be a acceptable risk. For others, not.


We could allow only Christian refugees? They are actually the most persecuted group in the world.

Timberrrrrrrr

biko wrote: »

We know from experience Islamist attacks happen mainly where the Islamists live.
There are hardly no attacks in countries with a low percentage of Muslims.
Islamists tend not to travel to other countries to attack there (although it has happened).

So in short, bringing in Muslims means you increase the risk of a Islamist attack.

For some that appears to be a acceptable risk. For others, not.

So your real solution is to stop any Muslim asylum seekers? What about Muslims born in the country?

biko

Muslims born in Ireland already are probably not a problem.

biko

biko wrote: »

Muslims born in Ireland already are probably not a problem.

And yet Muslims born in the UK were responsible for the London attacks.
Also French born Muslims were responsible for some of the attacks in France.
So you're point doesn't make sense