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Female Police officer stabbed to death in France

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    #332
    biko
    Registered Users Posts: 81,220 ✭✭✭✭biko


    bubblypop wrote: »
    I don't believe this will stop possible terrorist attacks, disenfranchised young men, who feel out of place in society are most likely to be radicalized. They give them something to believe in and a sense of belonging. That's where you need to start.
    Ireland have been poor and disenfranchised for decades. IRA did not bomb because of poverty.


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    #333
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    biko wrote: »
    We know from experience Islamist attacks happen mainly where the Islamists live.
    There are hardly no attacks in countries with a low percentage of Muslims.
    Islamists tend not to travel to other countries to attack there (although it has happened).

    So in short, bringing in Muslims means you increase the risk of a Islamist attack.
    For some that appears to be a acceptable risk. For others, not.


    We could allow only Christian refugees? They are actually the most persecuted group in the world.

    A bit like keeping the Irish out, you know cos IRA and stuff


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    #334
    biko
    Registered Users Posts: 81,220 ✭✭✭✭biko


    bubblypop wrote: »
    And yet Muslims born in the UK were responsible for the London attacks.
    Also French born Muslims were responsible for some of the attacks in France.
    So you're point doesn't make sense
    What do you suggest then?


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    #335
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    biko wrote: »
    Ireland have been poor and disenfranchised for decades. IRA did not bomb because of poverty.

    And why do you think young Irish Catholic men joined the PIRA?


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    #336
    biko
    Registered Users Posts: 81,220 ✭✭✭✭biko


    bubblypop wrote: »
    And why do you think young Irish Catholic men joined the PIRA?
    Not because of poverty.


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    #337
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    biko wrote: »
    What do you suggest then?

    I have already pointed out where you need to start.
    Not allowing thousands of immigrants to rot on social welfare, live in deprived areas without any life skills to assist them in their new homeplace, would be a start.


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    #338
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 3,801 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »
    So your real solution is to stop any Muslim asylum seekers? What about Muslims born in the country?

    The second question is unrelated to the first. Although you are looking no doubt for some kind of calls for deportation. Before I go on I have no real hatred of Islam. I’m sympathetic to Iran and Palestine. To the Yemeni being starved by the Americans and their allies.

    Nevertheless any country has a right to border control and a duty to keep its citizens safe. Also it’s best not to run policies that destabilise countries. Immigration could be sourced from South America, Philippines and so on.


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    #339
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 3,801 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    And China, of course.


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    #340
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    biko wrote: »
    Not because of poverty.

    Poverty, unemployment, lack of direction, nothing to believe in etc etc that is why thousands joined. PIRA gave them family, gave them something to believe in, something to feel.strongly about, to be passionate about, something to make them part of a group. All those reasons.


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    #341
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    European borders and immigration policy should have been properly controlled and enforced 30/40/50 years ago. They weren't and we are where we are now.

    There should be strict controls now moving forward but there still isn't. Last year during a global pandemic nearly a half million people arrived into the EU to claim asylum.

    This will spell the end of the EU eventually no matter how much the politicians and their open border supporters say it won't. French society is cracking apart badly.


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    #342
    biko
    Registered Users Posts: 81,220 ✭✭✭✭biko


    The two Islamists that joined ISIS from Galway were both trainee doctors with a bright future without poverty.

    Yet, they still decided religion was the way to go.


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    #343
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    biko wrote: »
    The two Islamists that joined ISIS from Galway were both trainee doctors with a bright future without poverty.

    Yet, they still decided religion was the way to go.

    Not religion.
    Terrorism.
    You do know the difference right


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    #344
    biko
    Registered Users Posts: 81,220 ✭✭✭✭biko


    bubblypop wrote: »
    PIRA gave them family, gave them something to believe in, something to feel.strongly about, to be passionate about, something to make them part of a group. All those reasons.
    Did any of the 8 hungerstrikers fit your list?


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    #345
    Princess Consuela Bananahammock
    Registered Users Posts: 33,484 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    biko wrote: »
    The two Islamists that joined ISIS from Galway were both trainee doctors with a bright future without poverty.

    Yet, they still decided religion was the way to go.

    So how would your solutions have stopped this?

    Do you think demonizing their religion might have been a contributing factor?

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



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    #346
    biko
    Registered Users Posts: 81,220 ✭✭✭✭biko


    bubblypop wrote: »
    Not religion.
    Terrorism.
    You do know the difference right
    ISIS is a religious group. Their kalifate was religious.


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    #347
    Princess Consuela Bananahammock
    Registered Users Posts: 33,484 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    biko wrote: »
    ISIS is a religious group. Their kalifate was religious.

    ISIS is a religious group in the same way the IRA was a religious group.

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



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    #348
    WrenBoy
    Registered Users Posts: 1,614 ✭✭✭WrenBoy


    Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »
    ISIS is a religious group in the same way the IRA was a religious group.

    How so ?


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    #349
    Princess Consuela Bananahammock
    Registered Users Posts: 33,484 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    WrenBoy wrote: »
    How so ?

    They are/were a terrorist/freedom fighting/guerrilla movement motivated by regaining land they believed was there's by right in the first place.

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



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    #350
    biko
    Registered Users Posts: 81,220 ✭✭✭✭biko


    Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »
    Do you think demonizing their religion might have been a contributing factor?
    Are you thinking their religion was so demonised they decided to travel to another content to join a religious group known for killing? Because their religious feelings were hurt?

    Would you?


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    #351
    Princess Consuela Bananahammock
    Registered Users Posts: 33,484 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    biko wrote: »
    Are you thinking their religion was so demonised they decided to travel to another content to join a religious group known for killing? Because their religious feelings were hurt?

    Would you?

    Problem here is that you are assuming radicalisation took place before immigration. I never said this.

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



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    #352
    WrenBoy
    Registered Users Posts: 1,614 ✭✭✭WrenBoy


    Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »
    They are/were a terrorist/freedom fighting/guerrilla movement motivated by regaining land they believed was there's by right in the first place.
    ISIL has detailed its goals in its Dabiq magazine, saying it will continue to seize land and take over the entire Earth until its:

    Blessed flag...covers all eastern and western extents of the Earth, filling the world with the truth and justice of Islam and putting an end to the falsehood and tyranny of jahiliyyah [state of ignorance], even if America and its coalition despise such.

    — 5th edition of Dabiq, the Islamic State's English-language magazine[161]
    According to German journalist Jürgen Todenhöfer, who spent ten days embedded with ISIL in Mosul, the view he kept hearing was that ISIL wants to "conquer the world", and that all who do not believe in the group's interpretation of the Quran will be killed. Todenhöfer was struck by the ISIL fighters' belief that "all religions who agree with democracy have to die",[162] and by their "incredible enthusiasm" – including enthusiasm for killing "hundreds of millions" of people.[163]

    The IRA wanted the Reunification of Ireland and removal of a foreign power.


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    #353
    Princess Consuela Bananahammock
    Registered Users Posts: 33,484 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    WrenBoy wrote: »
    The IRA wanted the Reunification of Ireland and removal of a foreign power.

    That doesnt contradict what I said. ISIS also want land and the removal of a political power. They believe it's their right. What they want to do with it is irrelevant.

    Land is political, not religious.

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



  • Options
    #354
    WrenBoy
    Registered Users Posts: 1,614 ✭✭✭WrenBoy


    Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »
    That doesnt contradict what I said. They also want land and the removal if a, political powe.They believe it's their right. What they want to do with it is irrelevant.

    Land is political, not religious.

    They want all the land. And they want it because they believe that they have divine orders to go and conquer it.
    The reality is that the Islamic State is Islamic. Very Islamic. Yes, it has attracted psychopaths and adventure seekers, drawn largely from the disaffected populations of the Middle East and Europe. But the religion preached by its most ardent followers derives from coherent and even learned interpretations of Islam.

    Virtually every major decision and law promulgated by the Islamic State adheres to what it calls, in its press and pronouncements, and on its billboards, license plates, stationery, and coins, “the Prophetic methodology,” which means following the prophecy and example of Muhammad, in punctilious detail.

    What isis really wants- The Atlantic


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    #355
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »
    Do you think demonizing their religion might have been a contributing factor?

    This would be funny if it wasn't so tragically naive


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    #356
    Marcos
    Registered Users Posts: 500 ✭✭✭Marcos


    Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »
    That doesnt contradict what I said. ISIS also want land and the removal of a political power. They believe it's their right. What they want to do with it is irrelevant.

    Land is political, not religious.
    — 5th edition of Dabiq, the Islamic State's English-language magazine[161]
    According to German journalist Jürgen Todenhöfer, who spent ten days embedded with ISIL in Mosul, the view he kept hearing was that ISIL wants to "conquer the world", and that all who do not believe in the group's interpretation of the Quran will be killed. Todenhöfer was struck by the ISIL fighters' belief that "all religions who agree with democracy have to die",[162] and by their "incredible enthusiasm" – including enthusiasm for killing "hundreds of millions" of people.[163]

    Not even the most swivel eyed loon could claim equivalence between the aims stated above in the ISIS own publication and the IRA seeking a 32 county Ireland. If you are going to persist in the argument that they are equivalent then please supply proof like statements in say An Poblacht or other interviews.

    You don't have to be a Republican to see that it isn't comparable at all.

    When most of us say "social justice" we mean equality under the law opposition to prejudice, discrimination and equal opportunities for all. When Social Justice Activists say "social justice" they mean an emphasis on group identity over the rights of the individual, a rejection of social liberalism, and the assumption that unequal outcomes are always evidence of structural inequalities.

    Andrew Doyle, The New Puritans.



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    #357
    Princess Consuela Bananahammock
    Registered Users Posts: 33,484 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    WrenBoy wrote: »
    They want all the land. And they want it because they believe that they have divine orders to go and conquer it.


    What isis really wants- The Atlantic[/QUOTE]

    Yep. Armies want land. Religious groups want followers.
    Deleted User wrote: »
    This would be funny if it wasn't so tragically naive

    And yet you can't actually debate the point...? Strange that...
    Marcos wrote: »
    Not even the most swivel eyed loon could claim equivalence between the aims stated above in the ISIS own publication and the IRA seeking a 32 county Ireland. If you are going to persist in the argument that they are equivalent then please supply proof like statements in say An Poblacht or other interviews.

    You don't have to be a Republican to see that it isn't comparable at all.

    I see it's ad homeinem day again :)

    The Catholic Church is a religious group. The Jews are a rleigous group. Sunni and Shi-ite muslims are religious groups.

    The IRA were not religious - they were political.
    ISIS are not rleigous - they are political.

    Religious groups tend not to be democratic: case in point, do catholics vote for the pope? There are catholics in democratic countires, there are catholics in non-democratic countries. They have to obey the laws of the land they are in, that doesn't make them "political" or "democtratic". Trying to force a doctorine on a country would make them political.

    If they were religous, they'd be going after infedels and non-believers. Not land.

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



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    #358
    jmreire
    Registered Users Posts: 8,538 ✭✭✭jmreire


    bubblypop wrote: »
    And yet Muslims born in the UK were responsible for the London attacks.
    Also French born Muslims were responsible for some of the attacks in France.
    So you're point doesn't make sense

    it has nearly nothing to do with the Country they are born in, and everything to do with radical Islam, and the Imans and Mullahs who preach this version, no matter where they are. Lisa Smith was radicalized while in Ireland, and you can be sure that whoever radicalized her is still in business. But chances of an Islamic Terrorist attack are definitely greater from some one who was born and educated in an Islamic Country, and moved to Europe.


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    #359
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »


    And yet you can't actually debate the point...? Strange that...


    Debate what? You stated that critizing religion is leading to terrorism.

    Free speech can't end because it offends you.


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    #360
    Princess Consuela Bananahammock
    Registered Users Posts: 33,484 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Debate what? You stated that critizing religion is leading to terrorism.

    Free speech can't end because it offends you.

    I stated nothing - I sked a question of Biko, he hasn't repsonded.
    Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

    Do you think demonizing their religion might have been a contributing factor?

    Also - not a free speech issue. I'm not saying people shouldn't do it; I'm asking is radicalization a consequence of it?

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



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    #361
    jmreire
    Registered Users Posts: 8,538 ✭✭✭jmreire


    Overheal wrote: »
    I'm not the topic, and I fail to see how that addresses the point. But, please, go on @Cordell.

    No, thats true, but you are a frequent poster on the topic, and I was curious to know how do you relate to Islam. Do you think that its a good or bad influence in the world?


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