Should have stayed child-free

OnceKindMan

Throwaway account for reasons.

"Having a kid was the second most stupid thing I did. The most stupid thing I did was have another."

I need to preface this with "I love my kids, and I'd do anything for them". And I mean that. The older child is really coming into his own - he's an interesting person to talk to. The younger child is a toddler, with everything that implies. They're both good kids; kind to others (including each other), and generally well behaved.

But I still regret becoming a father. And if I had a do-over, kids just wouldn't be part of it.

Please don't interpret this as wishing them away, it's not like that at all. However, every single aspect of my life was better before I had children. Every. Single. Aspect.

My wife and I had an excellent relationship. It's still "good", but not as good as it was. And I don't think it ever will be again. I hate to say it, but the "spark" is gone.

We always had time for each other, and very rarely argued. Now we're lucky to get an hour together, and it takes so much effort to "arrange" that hour, and usually we're just to tired to do anything but veg out anyway. Our sex life is, well, crap. Used to be every other night. Now it's down to three, maybe four times per month. If the kids are in bed. And there's no risk to wake them up. And we're not interrupted.

We used to take at least one foreign holiday per year (pre-covid, obviously). We had plans to see every capital city in Europe. Now, we haven't left the country in over 7 years.

We used to go to the cinema pretty much weekly. That's gone.

We used to be far healthier. We used to get out hiking a lot, something we both really enjoyed. Now doing things like that is incredibly hard, with the amount of paraphernalia that bringing kids with you entails. And 20 minutes in the "I'm tired" starts. We ate far better - now a lot of it is convenience food. (Weird thing here is all the kids' food is healthy...)

Feel like the odd duvet day together, just watching TV? Now it's just completely impractical. There is no downtime, and no scope for downtime.

See that shiny new toy? Needs to be carefully considered before dropping money on that.

I need to be clear here, I'm not shrugging off my responsibilities - I am a dedicated father. But I pine for the days when my wife and I were living for "us", and not for the sake of our two children. And I often wonder what it is in me, that parenting just never really... "clicked".

So I guess, to summarise.... some people are just better off staying as aunts/uncles. And that's what I should have done.

Eric Cartman

the worst part is too , in the old days people would say its only an 18 year sentence , but these days the reality of it is you won't have time to yourselves and the house empty again till the youngest is 23-25, you are absolutely not alone in feeling like this, its just still a taboo for most to admit it.

secman

You havent mentioned your wife's wishes regarding children, maybe you should have stayed single as you genuinely seemed happier being a lad with no responsibilities and just travelling and having a regular sex life. Marriage and having children isn't for everyone. It continues to have to be tweaked and worked at, it needs total buy in and commitment from both partners.

wench

This is why my response to the perennial "What if you regret not having them?" is that if I have them and regret it, the returns policy is terrible!

CelticRambler

Whatever about the sex, the cinema and the duvet days, I don't understand this how you've ended up with this, especially with only two children:

OnceKindMan wrote: »

We used to take at least one foreign holiday per year (pre-covid, obviously). We had plans to see every capital city in Europe. Now, we haven't left the country in over 7 years.

We used to be far healthier. We used to get out hiking a lot, something we both really enjoyed. Now doing things like that is incredibly hard, with the amount of paraphernalia that bringing kids with you entails. And 20 minutes in the "I'm tired" starts. We ate far better - now a lot of it is convenience food. (Weird thing here is all the kids' food is healthy...)

Taking children on holidays is dead easy. Most of the "paraphenalia" is not necessary, and if they're properly trained, children can cope with pretty much anything an adult can. Having four in five years didn't stop MrsCR and me continuing hiking or visiting some of Europe's finest destinations. Spend a few days in the Alps and you'll see loads of children racing ahead of their parents, same as they do in Marlay or Bushy Park.

Tony EH

To the OP...

Most regrets don't last forever. Sparks come and go.

Life is very often looking about around you and seeing what you've got right now, not what you don't have right now.

In short, your life changes.

Faith

OP, thank you for sharing that. It can’t have been easy to type it out, and please do your best to ignore all the responses telling you why you’re wrong about your feelings and experiences.

lainey_d_123

wench wrote: »

This is why my response to the perennial "What if you regret not having them?" is that if I have them and regret it, the returns policy is terrible!

This is absolutely my concern. If I don't have them and then regret it, what happens? I feel lonely and sad, maybe. If I have them and regret it, what happens? My life is ruined, and probably the lives of innocent children, because resentfulness and bitterness ALWAYS comes out, even when people try to hide it.

Having kids is one of the very few things in life that's well and truly irreversible. You can recover from most bad decisions, even 'bigger' things like marrying the wrong person or buying the wrong house. You can get divorced, you can sell a house, you can even go bankrupt if you have to. There's always a way out. You can't really put your kids up for adoption because your life was way better without them. It's one of the few things that's completely and utterly unacceptable, even in today's relatively liberal society.

OnceKindMan

secman wrote: »

You havent mentioned your wife's wishes regarding children, maybe you should have stayed single as you genuinely seemed happier being a lad with no responsibilities and just travelling and having a regular sex life.

Those are fair points, but I think you've made a couple of assumptions there.

I deliberately didn't mention my wife, this is all me. She started off with no real urge to have kids, I was fine with that. As she got older (and we started having more nieces/nephews), she wanted them more. And I did too. Or at least I thought I did.

I was never "a lad with no responsibilities"; I was never really "a lad" at all. (Just for emphasis - I've never taken drugs, always drink within my limit, and never been in any kind of legal trouble.) It's not all about having a regular sex life, that's just one example of things that have gotten worse.

The "travelling" thing - there's a whole world out there to explore. And, let's face it, people with children won't see as much of it as people without. Or at least, it's a lot more challenging for them to do it.

secman wrote: »

Marriage and having children isn't for everyone. It continues to have to be tweaked and worked at, it needs total buy in and commitment from both partners.

Marriage absolutely is for me; my wife and I have been together since secondary school, she's my best friend, and would be completely lost without her.

I thought having children was for me too - we didn't go in blind here. But at the same time, I didn't think it would affect me as much as it has. I'm not a fool, I was expecting huge changes, changes I thought I could manage. But like I've said, the whole parenting thing just didn't "click" with me.

CelticRambler wrote: »

Taking children on holidays is dead easy. Most of the "paraphenalia" is not necessary, and if they're properly trained, children can cope with pretty much anything an adult can. Having four in five years didn't stop MrsCR and me continuing hiking or visiting some of Europe's finest destinations. Spend a few days in the Alps and you'll see loads of children racing ahead of their parents, same as they do in Marlay or Bushy Park.

And more power to you. I am now the sole earner (childcare is so expensive, it's actually cheaper for my wife to not work), so part of the not getting out of the country is a financial thing. Even staying in the country, it's no longer a case of "throw a few clothes into some suitcases" and head on our way. I've taken holidays inside the country too, but even then we can't go too far because the longer you're in the car, the more hassle it is. Driving across the country is a chore on its own, driving with children compounds that.

Holidays are supposed to be a chance to decompress, to get away from the daily struggles. Hard to do that when you bring your daily struggles with you. (Okay it's not that bad, but you get what I mean.)

"loads of children racing ahead of their parents"
And that, in itself, is stressful. "Are they going too far ahead, are they out of view, are they going to trip/fall?". What was once relaxing hike, enjoying nature, becomes a source of stress, where you spend 90% of your time keeping an eye on the children instead of enjoying the experience and enjoying each other's company.

Faith wrote: »

OP, thank you for sharing that. It can’t have been easy to type it out, and please do your best to ignore all the responses telling you why you’re wrong about your feelings and experiences.

Well it wasn't easy. And (as Eric Cartman mentioned above) there's a huge taboo about this kind of stuff. Hence the throwaway account; people will try to shame you for thinking and saying things like this.

Cal Croydon wrote: »

You might think things would be better if you'd stayed child free, but the relationship with your wife would not have remained the same had you remained child free and she wanted children. Likely she would have become bitter and this would manifest itself in numerous ways. Of course i could be wrong on that but it's a fair bet.

As I mentioned above, we didn't start out wanting children. But as we got older, it grew. There are a few reasons for that, but I think the main reason was that we enjoyed our nieces/nephews so much. My wife definitely wanted them more than I did, so another part was making sure her life was complete.

She's far happier (and better) as a parent than I am. She dotes on the children, and I'm grateful for that. But it still wears on her. I do what I can, outside of work. I'm working from home now, usually finish about 5, and I'll take over from her just so she can have some time to herself, even if all she does is have a cup of tea and watch some TV. I'll go for a walk with them, play some games, whatever. But all the while, at the end of a hard day, all I want to do is sit down with her and have a chat. We so rarely get to do that.

lainey_d_123 wrote: »

This is absolutely my concern. If I don't have them and then regret it, what happens? I feel lonely and sad, maybe. If I have them and regret it, what happens? My life is ruined, and probably the lives of innocent children, because resentfulness and bitterness ALWAYS comes out, even when people try to hide it.

That plays on my mind a lot.

The older child is intelligent, and interesting. He's very kind and considerate. I love him, but more importantly, I like him. I enjoy spending time with him. The younger child is starting to come in to his own a lot more now too. The younger child is a lot more brazen, but still a good kid (the majority of the time). And learning a lot from the older child (kindness, compassion, etc).

So I like to think that I can get over myself, and I know I don't begrudge the children at all; this is all on me. That may sound contradictory to everything else I've said. But it's as simple as: if I had the choice again, I wouldn't have children. It's more about missing the life we had before.

Tony EH wrote: »

To the OP...

Most regrets don't last forever. Sparks come and go.

Life is very often looking about around you and seeing what you've got right now, not what you don't have right now.

In short, your life changes.

That's a great take, thank you for that. Of all the responses, I think this was the most useful. This is something I can build on.

CelticRambler

OnceKindMan wrote: »

So I like to think that I can get over myself, and I know I don't begrudge the children at all; this is all on me. That may sound contradictory to everything else I've said. But it's as simple as: if I had the choice again, I wouldn't have children. It's more about missing the life we had before.

If you're thinking about your life as a couple, then yeah, that's lost and gone forever. But chances are there were quite a few other people in your life too, whose feelings and/or demands you had to take into account, even if you were able to fob them off in a way that you can't do with your own children.

But ...

OnceKindMan wrote: »

"loads of children racing ahead of their parents"
And that, in itself, is stressful. "Are they going too far ahead, are they out of view, are they going to trip/fall?". What was once relaxing hike, enjoying nature, becomes a source of stress, where you spend 90% of your time keeping an eye on the children instead of enjoying the experience and enjoying each other's company.

... as far as getting out and about is concerned (especially hiking and the actual travelling) it'd help if you didn't treat the children so much as fragile, vulnerable little beings, but "just another person on the trip". We lost SonNo.2 in Dundrum Shopping Centre (twice, in the one day - the second PA announcement was seriously embarrassing ) but never had any trouble out in the big wide world, probably because we explained to the children the limits of what we could do for them if they had any problems - if you fall over and cut your knees, we have no bandages; if you eat your three bars of chocolate in one go, you'll have nothing left for our third break; if you run too far ahead and take a wrong turn, you'll have to catch up with us.

Once those warnings were given, we'd talk to the children about what we were doing and what we were seeing in exactly the same way as we'd talk to each other - there's no reason why they shouldn't be just as interested in the way the sun glints off a glacier as you; and in return, their child-sized perspective will help you see and appreciate things that you wouldn't notice while staring lovingly into your wife's eyes!

bunny_mac

Thank you for sharing, OP. That must have been hard to write. But very brave of you to do it.

Of course, it doesn't surprise me that, even though you posted this on a childfree board, you were assailed with self-righteous replies from parents. And people wonder why so few people admit regretting having kids?!

Your experience is your experience and you're perfectly entitled to feel how you feel. Please ignore the gob****es who seem to be trolling this board (it's the same few users all the time) just to tell everyone they're wrong.

Eire Go Brach

Think we all feel like this from time to time. It’s quite normal. Day dream of our past and what we could be doing. But your also missing options and choice. Kids take that away from you. We all love to be free 😀Even if you had no kids. You might not feel like doing all those things.

Like I love a good night out. But they are always better in my head. Day comes along. Sometimes I’m like “ah wish I could stay in” 😀

Just throwing it out their. But maybe try meditation/ Mindfulness. Helps with living in the now.

shesty

Mod Note:

A mild warning to both sides here - given the nature of this thread and this forum, there are bound to be strong opinions. Both sides are equally entitled to their opinions in this particular space, however the main focus of this particular forum is for those who are childfree.

I would ask that you all think carefully of your language and opinions when you are posting, regardless of which side you fall on. Please respect that other people's life choices may not be yours, and be tolerant.

If you have any issues, please report posts.
Thanks,
S

This hard part is temporary
When the toddlers a bit older it will get easier
It won’t be long before they are teenagers and you’ll barely see them.
You’ll be able to do a lot more things with and without your children
All the things you’ve mentioned you’ll be able to start doing them again
Good luck

ShauntaMetzel

I think the 'spark' of every marital relationship changes or goes down after a certain period of time. By the way, I agree that as a parent we compromise several things for our kids that even we don't bother to do for our parents. With this point, why we still don't consider the efforts of our own parents for us?

YellowLead

bunny_mac wrote: »

Thank you for sharing, OP. That must have been hard to write. But very brave of you to do it.

Of course, it doesn't surprise me that, even though you posted this on a childfree board, you were assailed with self-righteous replies from parents. And people wonder why so few people admit regretting having kids?!

Your experience is your experience and you're perfectly entitled to feel how you feel. Please ignore the gob****es who seem to be trolling this board (it's the same few users all the time) just to tell everyone they're wrong.

I reckon this forum should be membership only, like online dating and sexuality forums and whatever else. Otherwise you are inviting the opinions of every Tom dick and Harry and have to be open/accepting of that.

bunny_mac

YellowLead wrote: »

I reckon this should be membership only, like online dating and sexuality forums and whatever else. Otherwise you are inviting the opinions of every Tom dick and Harry and have to be open/accepting of that.

I wish it was. I mean there's a thread about how we're always being told we'll change our minds, and two parents posted on there... telling us most of us will change our minds! Is it too much to ask that we have a tiny corner of a tiny corner of the internet where we can be free from that?

magicbastarder

to be fair - the people possibly most likely to be able to empathise, or give useful feedback - are people who *have* had kids (deliberately or accidentally). possibly in similar circumstances, or have been through it and have learned useful lessons they might be able to pass on.

those of us who *haven't* had kids are not necessarily in a useful position to offer advice.

limnam

If I was to guess I would imagine that parents mourning their childless old selves/life is fairly common.


A lot of people probably don't admit it for the same reason you posted this under a different account.

YellowLead

beauf wrote: »

This is probably worth its own thread. So it doesn't derail the OPs thread.

If you think neither have useful opinions to share with the other. Then lock down the forum. But consider then the op wouldn't have been able to post here.

They would be able to, all they would have to do was ask to join.

I just feel it’s silly to be complaining about all manner of opinions if you leave the forum open for everyone to use. If you (not you personally) want it only for people who are child free by choice, or who regret having kids, then it needs to be locked down - simple

Without the forum being open, most childfree posters would never have found it

Leave it open, we can deal with annoyances as they occur rather than hiding away

sparksfly

I don't know what age you are but with a toddler i'l guess in your 30s.
I am 60, my wife 56 and we have one daughter.

I remember clearly picking her up from playschool, her not leaving until the story being read was finished. I remember her first day on the school bus, my wife driving behind it to see would she get into the school safely. Her little head bobbing around in the back seat of the bus made my wife distraught at the fact her baby was on her own for the first time.
The open day at secondary as she excitedly explored the new huge school seems like yesterday. We brought her to find her accommodation as she started university, she was both exited and apprehensive.

Now she heads off in her car to the same school as a teacher, smartly dressed and confident, next she is leaving home to live with her partner.

I heard children playing and laughing at a neighbours house yesterday and I suddenly had to catch my breath. This was our house for years, we always welcomed her friends around and it was noisy, my wife cooking chips and making buns.

I'm not saying you don't but cherish those moments with your kids with all your might. Before you know it they will be gone. You and your wife will re-live those moments with your memories.
Make as many memories as you can and make them strong.

R.D. aka MR.D

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Without the forum being open, most childfree posters would never have found it

Leave it open, we can deal with annoyances as they occur rather than hiding away

Agree with this. Even if it shows a few people who are on the fence that this life is okay, it is worth dealing with the nonsense.

There have only been a few comments which i thought were designed to be hurtful, most are just ignorance so I am happy enough to deal with the just as I do in real life which is ignore or attempt to inform.

This thread in particular is bound to attract people telling the OP that actually children are great, not out of malice but in an attempt to comfort.

shtpEdthePlum

Most people will always feel the grass is greener. I've found that things get progressively worse over time, even if there are incremental improvements it generally feels to me like one step forward two steps back.

Maybe that's just me, but I cope with it by trying to live in the moment as much as possible. Mindfulness kind of stuff, just looking around and thinking about what's grand at the moment. Focusing on what's lost is healthy but can't work as the only mechanism for coping with your situation.

Thank you for sharing your circumstances as it will no doubt help many others to feel less alone. I hope you make peace with your situation and you're far from the only one.

ChrissieH

Thank you for sharing and being so honest, I am childfree by choice and very happily married so I empathise with your feelings of loss about the relationship with your wife. I cherish my marriage and I feel like lockdown was easy and nice for us compared to the pressure so many parents were under, so hopefully that's part of the contributing factor to your current malaise and things might get better for you when life in general improves.
I recently had a conversation with a male friend who had been childfree until his 40s when he met his partner who was adamant that she wanted kids. He found it stressful when they were babies but seems ok now, however their romantic relationship is very "limited" shall we say.. they get on great etc but zero intimacy.

Our conversation was interesting because he freely admitted that he felt he would have been equally happy childfree as he is with children, in terms of "you can't miss what you never had" or "ignorance is bliss" which is, of course, antithesis to lots of peoples arguments that you'll regret it if you don't have kids. I don't think I've ever heard a parent say that before so it really stuck in my mind! I appreciated the honesty - I think we all know that parents love their kids but that doesn't mean that they're entirely happy with the impact on their lives.
I've never wanted them and I don't regret not having them, so I feel for you because I know I would feel exactly like you do if I was a parent, and it's tough!

Faith

beauf wrote: »

There is no way to reply to this on this forum other than agree with you.
That maybe the "correct" answer for the forum but I'm not sure thats useful for you.

You can just empathise. I doubt the OP is thinking someone will provide a magic solution because there is none; it's okay to allow someone to get something off their chest without responses needing to be solution-focused and "agree" or "disagree"

OnceKindMan

CelticRambler wrote: »

... as far as getting out and about is concerned (especially hiking and the actual travelling) it'd help if you didn't treat the children so much as fragile, vulnerable little beings, but "just another person on the trip". We lost SonNo.2 in Dundrum Shopping Centre (twice, in the one day - the second PA announcement was seriously embarrassing ) but never had any trouble out in the big wide world, probably because we explained to the children the limits of what we could do for them if they had any problems - if you fall over and cut your knees, we have no bandages; if you eat your three bars of chocolate in one go, you'll have nothing left for our third break; if you run too far ahead and take a wrong turn, you'll have to catch up with us.

That story about Dundrum - you've just proven my point for me. A casual shopping trip turned into a stressful situation.

But good tips (generally something we try to do anyway). Will definitely take them on board!

beauf wrote: »

There is no way to reply to this on this forum other than agree with you.
That maybe the "correct" answer for the forum but I'm not sure thats useful for you.

Faith wrote: »

You can just empathise. I doubt the OP is thinking someone will provide a magic solution because there is none; it's okay to allow someone to get something off their chest without responses needing to be solution-focused and "agree" or "disagree"

Exactly. I'm not expecting a solution. I'm not looking for "forgiveness". And I don't want condemnation either.

It's just good to get my thoughts/feelings out. It's not a "confession"; I'm just telling my story exactly as it is, warts and all.

(Just for clarity, 90% of the responses have been positive; indeed some have actually been quite helpful, which is not something I had expected when I posted!)

Anyway, I believe this thread has served its purpose, so if a mod wants to lock it, that's fine.

How Soon Is Now

I've two young kids boy 7 and girl 4 ya they drive me mental and Id love a break more often than not. My daughter especially can be a lot of work she's still not toilet trained ( we have tried and tried and tried ha) she wont talk to you properly the vast majority of the time and everything she does talk about usually revolves mostly around what she wants or what's on tv. Where in the process of finding out if she has anything Autism etc so that's not gonna make life any easier.

They have the place wrecked half the time and herself is a hell of a lot more stressed out because of everything going on. I do have to just get out and do my own thing every now and again even if its just out for a cycle.

Thing is we had them cause we wanted kids and like the OP I love them more than anything and I work really hard at being the best father I can be. I have a good relationship with them but there's a lot of things I loved before they where born I know I aint getting back again including how my relationship with my partner was before hand.

I find the best thing I can do Is to try and find some kinda time to do something away from there stuff even if its just an hour or two or get them involved in things I like and enjoy. At least that way its not just there ****e over and over.

I can one hundred percent understand why people choose to not have kids or some what regret it if they do its a natural thing. I guess one way or another all you can do is your best.

FintanMcluskey

Deleted User wrote: »

This hard part is temporary
When the toddlers a bit older it will get easier
It won’t be long before they are teenagers and you’ll barely see them.
You’ll be able to do a lot more things with and without your children
All the things you’ve mentioned you’ll be able to start doing them again
Good luck

I’ve heard this quite a bit and I’m not sure if it’s accurate

Toddlers are physically demanding but teenagers are a difficulty on a different scale mentally and financially

By the time those teenagers pass into early 20s they will likely have been through college at an enormous cost and still living at home

We spend the healthiest most energetic years of or lives devoting it to raising children, by the time they are gone it’s often to late financially and physically to do the things we postponed to raise kids

Make no mistake, parenting is a vocation with little reward for many people

Our lives are not a rehearsal, we don’t get the time back dedicated to raising babies into adults

@OP

@OP I wonder if this was really the right place for you to post this, all you are getting is posters patting themselves on their backs and high fiving each other that they made the “right” decision (or someone else did on their behalf).

What can these posts possibly do for your situation? The few helpful advice posts are being drowned out.

I feel the personal sub forum would be best, as you will get genuine advice there from people who have gotten through your tough stage and are enjoying the far side of it or useful tips on how to enjoy / get through your current stage that will hopefully give you a positive outlook. It will help you see see the positives rather than regret which is all I see here.

I fear for the outlook of both you and your family if you take on board the majority of the posts on here. It’s like visiting the vegan forum and saying you have meat in the fridge.

jimmycrackcorm

OnceKindMan wrote:

So I like to think that I can get over myself, and I know I don't begrudge the children at all; this is all on me. That may sound contradictory to everything else I've said. But it's as simple as: if I had the choice again, I wouldn't have children. It's more about missing the life we had before.

In the longer term though, your kids will grow up and be independent.
I'm at that stage and it's a while new life for me since, apart from the pandemic, I've been able to travel and have new experiences that are separate from family life.

So I'm saying, that which you miss, isn't gone forever.