Are Mick Wallace and Clare Daly Irelands greatest shame?

antiskeptic

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120277542#Comment_120277542

Um.. Bucha relies (in the public mind) on satellite photos from a satellite agency with contracts with the US military (check their site)

Alot hinges on the dates tamp on a satellite photo issues by a US government contractor.

More nuanced observers note that

- Ukraine has a habit of announcing "cleansing actions against collaborators" when they liberate a place. That produces dead bodies. Bucha was liberated

- bodies tend to swell like balloons and leak fluids when laid out for the duration and temperatures proposed.

Just sayin: don't swallow the BBC

antiskeptic

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120277579#Comment_120277579

With all respect to what is humane .. this is small fry.

A TOS barrage upsets me much more

At the end of the day, it's all death.

US initiated death. In my view

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120277605#Comment_120277605

Perhaps it was deepfake CIA propaganda? Done so well that it even fooled Saint Prigozhin - the finest moral leader of men of a generation.

Putin should have just shouted "STOP" when the US ordered his men to amass on the Ukrainian boarder and then ordered them across it. Nobody must have let him know that that was all he had to do to thwart the evil US.

antiskeptic

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120277524#Comment_120277524

I'm taking a slightly wider view than what Ivan ( and his Ukr counterpart ) might be up to.

With nukes on the table I suggest you do too.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120277611#Comment_120277611

How many rapes can be made moral with a single nuke? Does it depend on the payload of the nuke?

antiskeptic

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120277616#Comment_120277616

How many rapes worth a nuke? Hard to say.

How many rapes you attributing to either side and, more importantly, who is your source?

antiskeptic

Anyway, back on topic.

Anyone read Seymour Hersch's piece on who (hint: he says it was the US) blew up Nordstream?

It's a cracking read on his sub stack

Like: Pulitzer-prize winning journo who broke the My Lai massacre ( Vietnam war) and Abu Graib torture centre (Iraq war) amongst many

Who Dunnet? Simple question ( and why you thinking so, if your up for it)

Jinglejangle69

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120277647#Comment_120277647

Hopefully the U S of A.

Russia know they are weak, acts like this shows it.

Invade a sovereign country, face the consequences.

Bullies need to be dealt with face on.

antiskeptic

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120277660#Comment_120277660

Unfortunately for us ( in Europe), our standard of living rests heavily on the flow of cheap Russian gas.

Primarily into the part-owner of Norddtream, Germany.

Germany is the engine room of Europe. Blow up the engine...

Now we need to buy US gas. What's the price hike, you reckon? In 100%'s of percent vs Russisn gas?

Your going to suck that bullet, huh?

antiskeptic

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120277414#Comment_120277414

You omitted Minsk (recently admitted as a stalling tactic by Merkel and Hollande. Why was that.

Meanwhile I'll enquire into what you say re treaties broken

antiskeptic

On topic: when is the vote for Clare. I think she's the business. Like Farage setting cats amongst pigeons. But with a just cause.

antiskeptic

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120277414#Comment_120277414

You didn't mention the fate of Russians. Noted.

The NRFA I see, is thirty years old. Minsk is a tad closer and deals with matters more relevant to Ru/Ukr relationship. That is the current situation.

Can we keep it to, say, 2008 when Russia drew a redline re Nato advancing into Ukraine. 15 yrs ago no less.

Jinglejangle69

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120277671#Comment_120277671

I buy LPG which is now cheaper than before the illegal occupation of a sovereign country began.

Thanks Russia👌👌

antiskeptic

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120277720#Comment_120277720

That's because we get it from Britain.

Slightly longer term than the end of your nose, the cutting off of cheap Russian gas is on a par with a European cerebral stroke.

But your part of the brain will be okay, you reckon.

Jesus, wake up!

PS: you know all that Yankie FDI than this country floats on? Which market do you think they sell into?

fash

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120277587#Comment_120277587

Forensic investigators from the ICC have been there for 6 months- they haven't screamed "this is fake" - do you, the guy who knows better than Gorbachev what was told to Gorbachev, also know more than a team of experienced expert forensic investigators who are working at this location?

You are a man of many talents - and boards is truly honoured that you deign to grace us with your presence

Dufflecoat Fanny

Wallace and Daly refused to condemn the invasion of Ukraine. Regardless of what they stand for or what Russia or USA have done in the past this act will define them forever. This war is indefensible and anyone who believes different should pack their bags and move to Russia. End of.

fash

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120277647#Comment_120277647

The unsourced article with more holes in it than the world's largest chunk of swiss cheese? Or is there another Hersh article?

https://oalexanderdk.substack.com/p/debunking-seymour-hershs-alta-class

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120277587#Comment_120277587

Bucha is an attested fact. These Russian lies have already been thoroughly discredited with regard to the temperature in Ukraine at the time and the satellite imagery have been checked out by independent experts.

Look at how Russian denials and lies shifted over time. The same pattern observed in the shooting down MH17.

You cannot face up to and so therefore refuse evidence of what Russia is doing in Ukraine. Yet come out with nonsense about standing with them morally. You stand for their crimes. You defend war criminals. That is your morality. It is plain for all to see.

The use of indiscriminate heavy weapons is an attested fact.

The cruise missile strikes deliberately hitting residential targets.

The deliberate targeting of civilian refuges in Mariupol.

This isn't something Russia started in Ukraine. In Syria medical agencies had to stop sharing locations with Russia - something done to PREVENT attacks, as they were attacked by Russia and allied Russian forces as soon as they shared the information.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/feb/18/msf-will-not-share-syria-gps-locations-after-deliberate-attacks

The BBC is one of the most reputable news agencies in the world. They don't get everything correct but if you are going to dispute their version of events you need more than Russian lies. I don't know whatever dregs of the internet you get your daily dose of their propaganda lies from but no doubt they will not have anything like the standards and impartiality of the BBC.

I think it's pretty clear you will swallow whatever lies Russia puts out. Blinded by your hatred of the West and your bankrupt sense of morality.

It is the same hatred and bankruptness we see in Wallace and Daly. The same evasions and clutching at any rod with which to criticise the West. And the same deliberate muddying of the waters re any Russian atrocity.

realitykeeper

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120276809#Comment_120276809

The only reason the Russians went to Cuba was because the US set up a base in Turkey first. (You should watch the movie Thirteen days.)

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120277706#Comment_120277706

The fate of the Russians? You mean all the ethnic Russians who have died as a result of Russian action in flattening their cities and conscripting them to use as cannon fodder?

Those Russians that Russia allegedly went in to protect yet killed them in their thousands?

Yeah you don't care about them either anymore than you care about the Ukrainians.

Budapest was not replaced by Minsk. So no, we don't start in 2008 that's not how it works no matter how inconvenient the clear violations of that treaty are to defenders of Russia and those who fall for their propaganda lies. Russia has no right to draw such a redline in violation of treaties it has signed to previous de-escalation of conflict between Russia and NATO \ NATO powers. And this was has never really been about Ukraine joining NATO. Russia's violations of Budapest started when Ukraine were about to sign a non military treaty with the EU. It has always been about keeping Ukraine in Russia's orbit as a vassal state and virtual colony.

As for Minsk, yeah Russia broke that too by continuining to support the Donbas separatists.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120277688#Comment_120277688

The Farage-Daly analogy is interesting. Both do convey a false simplistic and populist narrative (that they likely know has zero, even tangential, basis) unashamedly aimed at the poorly educated idiots among the populace. Now, some us love the poorly educated of course. But I am not surprised that the quality of people who would like one would also be drawn to the other.

Quin_Dub

##Mod Note##

@antiskeptic banned for persistent trolling

Economics101

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120278000#Comment_120278000

I think it was a bit more complicated than that. In the early 60s both NATO and the Warsaw Pact had nuclear weapons in the Europe: whether delivered by aircraft or by IRBMs. Turkey as a NATO member was part of that. By comparison, stationing IRBMs in Cuba was a completely new, game-changing development and was bound to be very provocative.

In the end, Russia withdrew the Cuban missiles and the USA withdrew the Turkish IRBMs. Face saving all round. Maybe the Russians staged the Cuban stunt just to give them a bargaining chip for the Turkish missiles. But the overall NATO-Warsaw Pact Nuclear standoff was still there. The US "setting up a base" in Turkey was part of a much bigger picture and European NATO members were very much in the firing lie both before and after Cuba.

Don't try to use this as some sort of excuse for Daly and Wallace.

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120278394#Comment_120278394

Plus there are no nuclear weapons stationed by NATO in Poland, Baltics etc.

There would be none likewise in Ukraine if it joined NATO.

This is all covered by the terms of the NATO-Russia Founding Act.

So if Russia was concerned about nuclear weapons in NATO countries on its borders... all it had to do with abide by its responsibilities under that agreement, as NATO has done.

Instead Russia breaches its own commitments under that agreement, and violates it with this invasion.

Similarly under Budapest Ukraine gave up its strategic weapons including nuclear weapons, in return for Russian guarantees of sovereignty and territorial integrity. Which Russia then repeatedly violated.

It is what Russia does. Then lies about it.

Dohnjoe

Edit Poster gone

Ragwort and Stones

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058181136/are-mick-wallace-and-clare-daly-irelands-greatest-shame

Nah. Twink.

Dohnjoe

Edit

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120278523#Comment_120278523

We don't have Twink presently embarrassing us on the global political stage about matters of importance though, as opposed to say nul points at the Eurovision.

* And this is Politics forum, maybe in After Hours you would have more chance with this line of attack

Ragwort and Stones

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120278539#Comment_120278539

Every country has people embarrassing them on the international stage. We don't have a monopoly on that.

Regardless of international renown I'm sticking with Twink!

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120276514#Comment_120276514

"little nothing countries"

What a thoroughly disgusting attitude for any person to hold - never mind (I assume) an Irish person whose forebears were told for centuries their nation had no right to exist.

realitykeeper

The Russians going to Cuba was part of the bigger picture too.

Dohnjoe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120279948#Comment_120279948

Putin is engaging in a brutal land-grab. Slaughtering Ukrainians to take their land, culture, identity, resources and even their children. That's it. There should be no apologism whatsoever for it.

However that's where Daly and Wallace come in, they ceaselessly find ways to blame other countries for Putin's actions. It's vile. They are the modern equivalent of Nazi apologists (who used the same techniques of whataboutery and blaming other countries)

Hotblack Desiato

It's... ...interesting... how the most extreme Christian apologists on boards (and the wider internet) are also invariably extreme Putin apologists. What he is and what he's doing bear no resemblance to so-called Christian values, or indeed any sort of decent human values, but he's best mates with the Orthodox head guy who wears multiple 80k watches, and hates teh gheys, so in their eyes presumably that makes up for the mass murder, mass rape, etc. 🙄

They fawn like 13 year old girls over "Shtrong, like bear" and all that crap (which in reality only betrays Russia's desperate inferiority complex)

Whatever happened to blessed are the meek? Y'know, the people who don't invade a peaceful neighbouring country?

brokenbad

How Wallace got in as a TD, let alone an MEP is beyond comprehension.

Wallace and Daly seem to come together as a package deal for the Eurocrats and enjoy nothing better than going against the grain of politics........

I reckon they are political bedfellows in more ways than one also

Danzy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120283241#Comment_120283241

Is your last line a reference to the dichotomy of Trotskyite thought on permanent revolution?

That Mick is being put back to work too soon?

Chips Lovell

Mod Note

Thread has gone way off topic and descended into conspiracy theories. Locked