Garda vetting to require renewel every 3 years

Ubbquittious

Yerwan from Fine Gael has come up with this daft notion of requiring people who need garda vetting to also renew it every 3 years even if you stay in the same job


http://www.justice.ie/en/JELR/Pages/PR21000102


Ridiculous, imo. Surely it only serves to create more bureaucracy and red tape for already red-tape-laden lines of work. A knee-jerk reaction to the boy scout abuser who was sentenced recently?

The type of roles this is required for often mean the person is caring for the more vulnerable members of society

On that basis I have no objection to this. I doubt you'll find many who will object to be honest

Gremlinertia

If that's the case, there would want to be a recruitment, internal or otherwise for vetting staff. Process has been crushingly slow for years.

alchemist33

Probably reasonable but it's a very cumbersome process. My wife is right now scouring google streetview to find the houses she lived in as a student 25 years ago. Her first attempt eas rejected because she couldn't remember the house numbers.

Ubbquittious

Deleted User wrote: »

The type of roles this is required for often mean the person is caring for the more vulnerable members of society

On that basis I have no objection to this. I doubt you'll find many who will object to be honest

I wouldnt mind to see the whole system scrapped tbh. Don't think it's necessary anymore. People are much more aware of abusers now and much harder to get away with it. But this recent addition seems completely frivolous.


How is someone going to get a criminal conviction while in a job and be able to prevent their employer from finding out about it? If this renewal system had been in place all along would it have prevented anything? I really doubt the effectiveness of the system


The whole thing seems like closing the gate after the horse has bolted. Where were the people out to protect the vulnerable in the 70s, 80's and 90s? Now they're just trying to cover their losses by making it good and awkward for people wanting to work in these fields now

Ubbquittious

alchemist33 wrote: »

Probably reasonable but it's a very cumbersome process. My wife is right now scouring google streetview to find the houses she lived in as a student 25 years ago. Her first attempt eas rejected because she couldn't remember the house numbers.

If I had to do that i would be stuffed altogether. What if a fella was homeless for a spell back in the day? Is he excluded from certain jobs then?

Notmything

Most companies, in my experience, re-vet their staff every couple of years already. My current employer, and my two previous employers re-vet their staff every three years.

TBF most vetting is completed in a day or two. My last vetting application was submitted and returned in less than a day. Most delays come from incorrectly completed forms or individuals who have lived abroad and require further documentation.

One issue i have come across is trying to remember previous addresses and when you lived there. Since people move around more this is often an issue.

The DayDream

[Deleted User] wrote: »

The type of roles this is required for often mean the person is caring for the more vulnerable members of society

On that basis I have no objection to this. I doubt you'll find many who will object to be honest

Yeah, uh everyone knows why it's required.

You'll find plenty of objections from people actually involved in the process, from employers, the gardai etc. You think it's a good idea because you're ignorant of how it works and how slow it is. Based on how long it takes them to do it if everyone who ever got it had to do it every 3 years there would be a backlog like you wouldn't believe. None of it would get done. It takes so long people are in jobs ages before it comes through it totally defeats the purpose.

This is like when people say that we should be throwing all the scumbags in jail for this or that offense or make all the ones on the dole do chores around town for their money.

Oh yes great ideas now you go ahead and build and staff the jails or go around trying to make people who aren't able to find work do slave labor for less than min wage and see how good of an idea it is when it's you that has to implement it and make it work.

Notmything

The DayDream wrote: »

Yeah, uh everyone knows that.

You'll find plenty of objections from people actually involved in the process, from employers, the gardai etc. You think it's a good idea because you're ignorant of how it works and how slow it is. Based on how long it takes them to do it if everyone who ever got it had to do it every 3 years there would be a backlog like you wouldn't believe. None of it would get done. It takes so long people are in jobs ages before it comes through it totally defeats the purpose.

This is like when people say that we should be throwing all the scumbags in jail for this or that offense or make all the ones on the dole do chores around town for their money.

Oh yes great ideas now you go ahead and build and staff the jails or go around trying to make people who aren't able to find work do slave labor for less than min wage and see how good of an idea it is when it's you that has to implement it and make it work.

You are not supposed to be in contact with vulnerable people until your vetting is complete. Most companies wont allow a person start until its done.

poisonated

They have really expedited how long it takes to process. It used to take months and now it’s only about 2 weeks.

The DayDream

Notmything wrote: »

Most companies, in my experience, re-vet their staff every couple of years already. My current employer, and my two previous employers re-vet their staff every three years.

TBF most vetting is completed in a day or two. My last vetting application was submitted and returned in less than a day. Most delays come from incorrectly completed forms or individuals who have lived abroad and require further documentation.

One issue i have come across is trying to remember previous addresses and when you lived there. Since people move around more this is often an issue.

It certainly is not completed in a day or two! I lived in another country for a while so mine took months to come in and was a lot of hassle.

My sister also had a lot of hassle. When she was 19 and still new to driving she hit a sign and her car conked out. There was nobody about, she called a friend who helped her get the car off the road, and drove her home. In the morning an overzealous gardai came to the door, accused her of drunk driving, leaving the scene of an accident etc.

She had to go to court and paid 50 euro to the council for the sign.

When she became a qualified nurse she had to get vetting. Lo and behold the 50 euro fine was described as a 500 euro fine for a 'hit and run'. Her employer thought she must have hit a person or another car and left the scene.

They eventually got it sorted with the gardai claiming it was a typo (BS, it was the guard who came to the door tried to stitch her up), but it caused a huge problem and she was crapping it that she wouldn't get the job at all (certainly would have caused a lot of places to retract an offer.)

Notmything

The DayDream wrote: »

It certainly is not completed in a day or two! I lived in another country for a while so mine took months to come in and was a lot of hassle.

My sister also had a lot of hassle. When she was 19 and still new to driving she hit a sign and her car conked out. There was nobody about, she called a friend who helped her get the car off the road, and drove her home. In the morning an overzealous gardai came to the door, accused her of drunk driving, leaving the scene of an accident etc.

She had to go to court and paid 50 euro to the council for the sign.

When she became a qualified nurse she had to get vetting. Lo and behold the 50 euro fine was described as a 500 euro fine for a 'hit and run'. Her employer thought she must have hit a person or another car and left the scene.

They eventually got it sorted with the gardai claiming it was a typo (BS, it was the guard who came to the door tried to stitch her up), but it caused a huge problem and she was crapping it that she wouldn't get the job at all (certainly would have caused a lot of places to retract an offer.)

You lived in another country, so of course it took longer. Whether you want to believe me or not thats fine, i can only tell you my experience. The system has improved and e-vetting is a big part of it.

TBF your sisters experience was not an issue with the vetting process but an inaccurate record.

Oranage2

There should be a number giving to everyone at birth then updated if you commit a crime, the current system is so slow especially if you've a common name, there could be 100s with the same name in your neighborhood

Speedsie

What I cannot understand is why vetting doesn't 'follow the person'.

IE, I work for Organisation A, and require vetting for this permanent role.
On Tuesday nights, I volunteer for Charity B, requiring a separate vetting.
On Sunday mornings, I look after a junior sports team C, again another round of vetting required.

Why can't I have one vetting application done, even if it's revetted after 3 years, which I can show to all three organisations that require vetting?

Speedsie

Speedsie wrote: »

What I cannot understand is why vetting doesn't 'follow the person'.

IE, I work for Organisation A, and require vetting for this permanent role.
On Tuesday nights, I volunteer for Charity B, requiring a separate vetting.
On Sunday mornings, I look after a junior sports team C, again another round of vetting required.

Why can't I have one vetting application done, even if it's revetted after 3 years, which I can show to all three organisations that require vetting?

Because the depth of information disclosed can vary depending on what role you're in, hence different vetting required for different roles. The information disclosed isn't just about convictions.

Speedsie

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Because the depth of information disclosed can vary depending on what role you're in, hence different vetting required for different roles. The information disclosed isn't just about convictions.

Thanks for that explanation.

The DayDream

The DayDream wrote: »

It certainly is not completed in a day or two! I lived in another country for a while so mine took months to come in and was a lot of hassle.

My sister also had a lot of hassle. When she was 19 and still new to driving she hit a sign and her car conked out. There was nobody about, she called a friend who helped her get the car off the road, and drove her home. In the morning an overzealous gardai came to the door, accused her of drunk driving, leaving the scene of an accident etc.

She had to go to court and paid 50 euro to the council for the sign.

When she became a qualified nurse she had to get vetting. Lo and behold the 50 euro fine was described as a 500 euro fine for a 'hit and run'. Her employer thought she must have hit a person or another car and left the scene.

They eventually got it sorted with the gardai claiming it was a typo (BS, it was the guard who came to the door tried to stitch her up), but it caused a huge problem and she was crapping it that she wouldn't get the job at all (certainly would have caused a lot of places to retract an offer.)

Tbf, she was clearly in court for leaving the scene of an accident, which is hit & run.
Also, the incident I'm stressed was too long ago to be on the garda computer system, so the only thing recorded was her court appearance, where it seems there was a typo.
I doubt the guard 'tried to stitch her up' because he didn't have anything to do with putting her court outcome on the computer system.

Also, if you lived overseas, if course it's going to take longer, because it has to be sent to a foreign police force and then back to gardai.

wirelessdude01

Speedsie wrote: »

What I cannot understand is why vetting doesn't 'follow the person'.

IE, I work for Organisation A, and require vetting for this permanent role.
On Tuesday nights, I volunteer for Charity B, requiring a separate vetting.
On Sunday mornings, I look after a junior sports team C, again another round of vetting required.

Why can't I have one vetting application done, even if it's revetted after 3 years, which I can show to all three organisations that require vetting?

A centralised vetting system that different employers and organisations can pull from. Some will require more detailed or forensic vetting than others but the current system whereby vetting only applies to an employer or organisation is slow, cumbersome, unyielding and creating too much unnecessary work. At one stage a few years back I had separate vetting for work(school), GAA, soccer, athletics and then cul camps. The GAA one should have been enough for the cul camps.

Varik

The people vetting is meant to weed out and restrict from certain roles would at some point in their lives probably have passed it.

The DayDream

The DayDream wrote: »

Yeah, uh everyone knows why it's required.

Great

eviltwin

I'm vetted every two years anyway so this is no issue to me. A good few of our staff would have lived overseas and would have to make repeat applications because something was missing but that should only be an issue the first time. Subsequent vettings should be okay because you will have stored that information. The online system has made it much more efficient and quicker.

Sadler Peak

Gremlinertia wrote: »

If that's the case, there would want to be a recruitment, internal or otherwise for vetting staff. Process has been crushingly slow for years.

Mine last one wasn't.

Took just over 1 week. This was November 2019.

Though I had it done late September 2014 and it took over 3 months to come through.

giles lynchwood

I would have no problem with this what so ever as long as politician's, priest's and garda are included.