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Dublin Bay South By-Election

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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 8,371 ✭✭✭blackwhite


    There should be - I know folks who have paid the top rate of tax for 10+ years, members of the GAA etc etc; yet have next to zero say at ballot box

    Then that’s purely their own decision, as they’d have been eligible to apply for Irish Citizenship by now


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,963 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Larbre34 wrote: »
    I'd almost be going the other way. This nonsense of 'coming home to vote' of non-residents, when they really had no right to do so, was a massive compromise of electoral law and that should be tightened up.

    Ireland already disenfranchises emigrants more than almost any Western country and you want to tighten it even further? Also calling it a "massive compromise of electoral law" seems a bit shrill.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,371 ✭✭✭blackwhite


    Podge_irl wrote: »
    Ireland already disenfranchises emigrants more than almost any Western country and you want to tighten it even further? Also calling it a "massive compromise of electoral law" seems a bit shrill.

    It's perfectly accurate though.

    Under our current legislation you are not legally entitled to vote if you've emigrated and been gone for more than 18 months.

    Celebrating the #hometovote stuff was explicitly celebrating electoral fraud.

    By all means campaign for changes if you want, but trying to claim that ignoring our electoral laws is something to be celebrated is a dangerously slippery slope to go down.


  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,084 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Chu says she is running for the nomination but will not run for the election (as Ind/SD/whatever) if she doesn't get it.


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,963 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    blackwhite wrote: »
    It's perfectly accurate though.

    Under our current legislation you are not legally entitled to vote if you've emigrated and been gone for more than 18 months.

    Celebrating the #hometovote stuff was explicitly celebrating electoral fraud.

    By all means campaign for changes if you want, but trying to claim that ignoring our electoral laws is something to be celebrated is a dangerously slippery slope to go down.

    And if they had been gone less than 18 months or were there as students there is nothing illegal about it.

    I didn't celebrate it, but nor do I think it was a "massive" anything really.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,370 ✭✭✭Brussels Sprout


    blackwhite wrote: »
    It's perfectly accurate though.

    Under our current legislation you are not legally entitled to vote if you've emigrated and been gone for more than 18 months.

    Celebrating the #hometovote stuff was explicitly celebrating electoral fraud.

    By all means campaign for changes if you want, but trying to claim that ignoring our electoral laws is something to be celebrated is a dangerously slippery slope to go down.

    They could have been recent emigrants who had been gone for less than 18 months?

    We already excel at disenfranching our emigrants to an extreme degree without people getting hot & bothered about this kind of stuff.
    Some countries (such as France) grant their expatriate citizens unlimited voting rights, identical to those of citizens living in their home country. Other countries allow expatriate citizens to vote only for a certain number of years after leaving the country, after which they are no longer eligible to vote (e.g. 15 years for the UK and 25 years for Germany). Other countries reserve the right vote solely to citizens living in that country, thereby stripping expatriate citizens of their voting rights once they leave their home country (such as Ireland, with extremely limited exceptions)

    link


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,370 ✭✭✭Brussels Sprout


    L1011 wrote: »
    Chu says she is running for the nomination but will not run for the election (as Ind/SD/whatever) if she doesn't get it.

    Surprisingly mature decision. I believe the electorate is confined to party members in DBS. I wonder who will be the favourite there?


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,371 ✭✭✭blackwhite


    They could have been recent emigrants who had been gone for less than 18 months?

    Plenty were not, and were happy to state as such when tweeting.


    The irony was that the two referenda that gave rise to the hashtaag showed exactly how to campaign to get laws that you don't like changed. Ignoring those laws and celebrating breaking the laws isn't how you do that


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,256 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    They could have been recent emigrants who had been gone for less than 18 months?

    We already excel at disenfranching our emigrants to an extreme degree without people getting hot & bothered about this kind of stuff.



    link

    It would be ridiculous for Ireland to give all Irish passport holders equivalent voting rights to those citizens living and paying taxes within the state - there are too many who have never been tax resident within the state, or have left and taken up permanent residence elsewhere. Many of these will never return to Ireland to reside here.

    That situation does not apply to most other countries to anything like the same extent. For the last century and a half, a very large proportion of the population have been forced by economic need to emigrate. The emigrants may or may not have an interest in Irish politics, but whether they do have an interest, they will not have to live with the consequences of their vote.

    Getting back to the thread topic, if Kate O'Connell decides to contest the FG nomination, it will be equivalent to Hazel Chu's bid as being not flavour of the month within the party HQ.

    It all adds to the gaiety of the nation.


  • Administrators Posts: 53,127 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    L1011 wrote: »
    Chu says she is running for the nomination but will not run for the election (as Ind/SD/whatever) if she doesn't get it.

    It would not be a good look for her to run as an independent again. She would have to face sanctions from the party, they couldn't dodge it again.

    As for running as a SD, it would be impossible to hide the careerism any longer.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 23,716 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    Podge_irl wrote: »
    Ireland already disenfranchises emigrants more than almost any Western country and you want to tighten it even further? Also calling it a "massive compromise of electoral law" seems a bit shrill.

    Ok fine. Lets say instead, those that remained on the electoral register, having been away from that address for more than six months, but used the vote anyway by traveling back from another jurisdiction where they live long term, just to vote, broke the law.

    There is no 'little bit pregnant' here.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,370 ✭✭✭Brussels Sprout


    It would be ridiculous for Ireland to give all Irish passport holders equivalent voting rights to those citizens living and paying taxes within the state - there are too many who have never been tax resident within the state, or have left and taken up permanent residence elsewhere. Many of these will never return to Ireland to reside here.

    That situation does not apply to most other countries to anything like the same extent. For the last century and a half, a very large proportion of the population have been forced by economic need to emigrate. The emigrants may or may not have an interest in Irish politics, but whether they do have an interest, they will not have to live with the consequences of their vote.

    Not to derail the thread any further but I certainly wouldn't be for all Irish passport holders getting a vote. Only people who have actually lived here, been on the electoral register and haven't been gone for too long (say 10 year cutoff). I'd also be open to them voting in their own constituency like they do in France.

    I've seen enough threads on the topic though to realise that I'm in the minority on this one.
    Getting back to the thread topic, if Kate O'Connell decides to contest the FG nomination, it will be equivalent to Hazel Chu's bid as being not flavour of the month within the party HQ.

    The longer it goes on without hearing from her the less likely it is that she is running. Geoghegan seems to have all the momentum now.


  • Registered Users Posts: 245 ✭✭Oymyakon


    Eamon Ryan on Morning Ireland just now giving the very diplomatic "Either [Byrne or Chu] would make a very good TD and we're looking forward to having our internal selection process" answer


  • Registered Users Posts: 527 ✭✭✭rdwight


    awec wrote: »
    It would not be a good look for her to run as an independent again. She would have to face sanctions from the party, they couldn't dodge it again.

    As for running as a SD, it would be impossible to hide the careerism any longer.

    I think that horse has already bolted.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,415 ✭✭✭touts


    Kate O'Connell throwing a tantrum Live on Today with Claire Byrne. She's not running. Putting the boot into the "Fine Gael Leadership" as she effectively storms out the door of the party and slams it behind her.


  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,261 Mod ✭✭✭✭Chips Lovell


    Mod Note

    Please, please read the charter.Posts that consist solely or mostly of gifs, memes, tweets, videos etc are not what this forum is for. You have to make a your own contribution.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,467 ✭✭✭golfball37


    touts wrote: »
    Kate O'Connell throwing a tantrum Live on Today with Claire Byrne. She's not running. Putting the boot into the "Fine Gael Leadership" as she effectively storms out the door of the party and slams it behind her.

    She’s been shabbily treated. FG used be a party that welcomed discourse against the leader or critique of certain policies. Now it’s dear leader driven and suffering electorally as a result. Kate from the outside looking in was a very good td imo


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,371 ✭✭✭blackwhite


    She really seems to had all bridges with Varadkar burned.

    It will be interesting to see if/when FG have new leadership whether she is brought in from the cold.

    She always struck me as one of our brighter and more principled TDs, and as someone who was never afraid to speak her mind.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 83 ✭✭LeakyLime


    So its James Geoghegan for FG - a former member of Renua.

    If Kate was running I could have just about stomach FG winning the seat.

    I think Social Dems & FF will be delighted Kate is not running.


  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,084 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Still hoping for a Creighton Comeback and/or possibly even McDowell running so we can have some mayhem; its all getting very bland now.+


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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,946 ✭✭✭spaceHopper


    touts wrote: »
    Kate O'Connell throwing a tantrum Live on Today with Claire Byrne. She's not running. Putting the boot into the "Fine Gael Leadership" as she effectively storms out the door of the party and slams it behind her.

    Sounds like she was bullied and got no backing

    https://www.rte.ie/news/politics/2021/0507/1216929-kate-oconnell-by-election/

    Somebody wanted to present her with a sod of turf at a FG meeting and out signs pointing to the M50 and West Meath outside her pharmacy.

    Shane McEntee was subjected to similar sign in his neighbourhood, he ended up taking his own life!

    Frankly I'm appalled that FG would allow anything like this to happen again in it's party. It sound toxic.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,946 ✭✭✭spaceHopper


    blackwhite wrote: »
    She really seems to had all bridges with Varadkar burned.

    It will be interesting to see if/when FG have new leadership whether she is brought in from the cold.

    She always struck me as one of our brighter and more principled TDs, and as someone who was never afraid to speak her mind.

    FF's Jim O'Callaghan said it was FG's loss and FFs gain that she was not running She was a strong contender taken out of the race.
    Dublin Bay South Fianna Fáil TD Jim O'Callaghan said that on a personal level he is disappointed that Ms O'Connell will not be running, but that Fine Gael has done his party candidates a great favour by not putting the former TD forward for election.

    Speaking on the same programme, Mr O'Callaghan said that as his party's Director of Elections for the campaign, he is "'very pleased we won't be facing such a popular and competitive candidate in the by-election".

    He said the decision will be good news for the two Fianna Fáil councillors in the constituency, Claire O'Connor and Deirdre Conroy, who are going forward for selection.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,006 ✭✭✭Augme


    You could argue that letting James run this time to raise his profile for a full general election to inxreas the chances of securing two seats is the smartest thing to do. But obviously Kate being strongly dislikes is a big factor too.

    It will be very interesting to see what does happen in the next general election. They'll have a very tough time freezing her out of that given there's little else to be has.

    Also, it seems James could well be the only male candidate to run for the established parties.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,540 ✭✭✭Leonard Hofstadter


    Augme wrote: »
    You could argue that letting James run this time to raise his profile for a full general election to inxreas the chances of securing two seats is the smartest thing to do. But obviously Kate being strongly dislikes is a big factor too.

    It will be very interesting to see what does happen in the next general election. They'll have a very tough time freezing her out of that given there's little else to be has.

    Also, it seems James could well be the only male candidate to run for the established parties.

    Yes and in that constituency this will matter.

    Disappointing, but not surprising, stuff by FG.


  • Registered Users Posts: 23,716 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    Sounds like she was bullied and got no backing

    https://www.rte.ie/news/politics/2021/0507/1216929-kate-oconnell-by-election/

    Somebody wanted to present her with a sod of turf at a FG meeting and out signs pointing to the M50 and West Meath outside her pharmacy.

    Sean McEntee was subjected to similar sign in his neighbourhood, he ended up taking his own life!

    Frankly I'm appalled that FG would allow anything like this to happen again in it's party. It sound toxic.

    Shane.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,946 ✭✭✭spaceHopper


    Larbre34 wrote: »
    Shane.

    Correct I know somebody called Sean and had it on the brain


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,370 ✭✭✭Brussels Sprout


    LeakyLime wrote: »
    So its James Geoghegan for FG - a former member of Renua.

    That's interesting. When did he leave them?


  • Registered Users Posts: 23,716 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    Oh diddums Kate O'Connell, how taken aback you seem at not enjoying the confidence of the party Leadership after throwing brickbats at them for years.

    No, I don't agree with the denigration and intimidation tactics she has described, but when it comes to running a large party one must always look back to Haughey.

    Had she pulled some of her crap under him, she'd be marooned on Rockall by now, filling her days making antiseptic from seaweed stuck to the cliff.

    This is no different Katie, some day the Coveney camp will prevail again (and God knows I wish they had) but for now, eat your porridge.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I said that Leo doesn't like KOC.

    not one little bitty bit.

    the writing was on the wall after getting all those Seanad seat shaftings.

    she is a divisive toxic presence herself - did herself no favours over the years and has been cast into the wilderness.

    you should not really go on radio bad-mouthing the party leader - when she said Leo was not doing it for the party - how dumb is that?


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  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,256 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    glasso wrote: »
    I said that Leo doesn't like KOC.

    not one little bitty bit.

    the writing was on the wall after getting all those Seanad seat shaftings.

    she is a divisive toxic presence herself - did herself no favours over the years and has been cast into the wilderness.

    you should not really go on radio bad-mouthing the party leader - when she said Leo was not doing it for the party - how dumb is that?

    There is a Wexford Independent TD who might advise her on how to get even with Leo.


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