Arlene, Edwin, her replacement and his replacement as leader of the DUP

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

The conditions set out by the GFA are a long way from being met with only 35% supporting unity in the most recent opinion poll, so those calling for a border poll are advocating a breach of the GFA. If they want one, they should renegotiate the GFA.

A SoS can call a BP at any time without breach of the GFA.

It is a common misconception that the Secretary of State can only call a border poll if they see a majority in favour of a united Ireland, but the provision does not say that this is the only circumstance in which a poll can be called.

It simply says that if the Secretary of State ascertained that a majority would be in favour of a united Ireland, they are required to call a border poll. Technically, the Secretary of State is at liberty to call a poll when they please.

https://thedetail.tv/articles/border-poll-mechanics

Fionn1952

breezy1985 wrote: »

The post I replied to didn't mention NI independence. I must have missed that earlier if he said it.

On NI the were very happy with the way things were under the EU because it took the question of sides and borders mostly off the table in their own lives

The post you replied to was itself replying to a post about NI independence, and Blanch was stating that the majority of young people from NI who lived abroad were in support of it. He has a tendency to try and conflate neutrality on the constitutional question as somehow representing a position of supporting NI independence, having previously tried to say that Alliance Party NI were supporters of NI independence.

I have no doubt that there are plenty among the young folk who have moved abroad who don't particularly care about the way things are, a lot of soft Unionists or apoliticals....I'd argue that if they were VERY HAPPY as you said, most wouldn't have moved abroad. While some folk move abroad to broaden horizons, most do so for better opportunities.

Junkyard Tom

Just updated my 'Five Partitionist Stages of Grief'.

Phase 1: 'never going to happen'.

Phase 2: 'not ready for this it's decades away yet'.

Phase 3: 'we can't afford it'.

Phase 4: 'Unionists must buy in'.

Phase 5: 'NI must go independent'


The utter desperation is hilarious.

realdanbreen

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

Just updated my 'Five Partitionist Stages of Grief'.

Phase 1: 'never going to happen'.

Phase 2: 'not ready for this it's decades away yet'.

Phase 3: 'we can't afford it'.

Phase 4: 'Unionists must buy in'.

Phase 5: 'NI will go independent'


The utter desperation is hilarious.

The main thing is that you're not obsessed about it Tom.

FrancieBrady

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

Just updated my 'Five Partitionist Stages of Grief'.

Phase 1: 'never going to happen'.

Phase 2: 'not ready for this it's decades away yet'.

Phase 3: 'we can't afford it'.

Phase 4: 'Unionists must buy in'.

Phase 5: 'NI will go independent' That's an order.


The utter desperation is hilarious.

You forgot the bit in red.

Junkyard Tom

FrancieBrady wrote: »

You forgot the bit in red.

Updated.

briany

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

Just updated my 'Five Partitionist Stages of Grief'.

Phase 1: 'never going to happen'.

Phase 2: 'not ready for this it's decades away yet'.

Phase 3: 'we can't afford it'.

Phase 4: 'Unionists must buy in'.

Phase 5: 'NI must go independent'


The utter desperation is hilarious.

To say that Unionists must buy in is not a partitionist view. Not fundamentally so, anyway. I could see people using it as an argument who want no part of the North, but I could also see people wanting to make sure that a United Ireland does not become the cold house for British Unionists which NI was originally for Irish Nationalists.

But this is not to naively assume that every Unionist would buy in, but enough of them would have to. Otherwise we come to a point where UI is voted for but Unionists mostly decide they can't accept that, and then what? The best case scenario would be that they emigrate en masse to Britain. Worst case is we have that big confrontation that was somewhat deferred by the partition of Ireland to begin with.

Junkyard Tom

briany wrote: »

To say that Unionists must buy in is not a partitionist view. Not fundamentally so, anyway.

It is used by partitionists as a ridiculous nonsensical, anti-democratic, bar-setting to try to prevent a United Ireland.

does not become the cold house for British Unionists which NI was originally for Irish Nationalists.

Nobody is interested in making it difficult for unionists, if anything people are over sensitive to Unionist resistance.

But this is not to naively assume that every Unionist would buy in, but enough of them would have to.

No this is where you're wrong, there is no requirement for any Unionist buy-in whatsoever. To be unionist is to not buy-in so requiring them to buy-in makes no sense.

Otherwise we come to a point where UI is voted for but Unionists mostly decide they can't accept that, and then what? The best case scenario would be that they emigrate en masse to Britain.

There will be no push-factor for emigration. We want a UI because we believe everyone will benefit including Unionists.

Worst case is we have that big confrontation that was somewhat deferred by the partition of Ireland to begin with.

What are they going to do if there's a pro-UI vote? There is no viable Unionist mini-state in the north to be had. Unionists are a decreasing minority in Belfast, Derry, Newry and four of the six counties.

When there's a pro-UI vote British jurisdiction is over.

Fionn1952

briany wrote: »

Worst case is we have that big confrontation that was somewhat deferred by the partition of Ireland to begin with.

....are you suggesting that partition AVOIDED conflict!? I'd suggest a slightly closer look at the last hundred years of history on our island, perhaps with a particularly close look in the northern part....

Hamsterchops

oisinog wrote: »

Sir Jeffrey won't take the leadership firstly he is an MP and not an MLA, you need an MLA to lead the party and hold the first minister role.

If he was co-oped into the assembley they would have to fire an MLA and this would create a bi-election in Lagan Valley and with the shifts in demographics there is the potential to loose the seat if voting shifted to UUP and alliance who had an increase in 9k in votes in the last election

Sir Jeffrey Donaldson, Edwin Poots confirmed as DUP leadership contenders

http://www.rte.ie/news/regional/2021/0506/1214248-dup-candidates-confirmed/

realdanbreen

Which camp would have the best post election bash!
I know the dup portray themselves as tea drinking , no crust sandwiches puritans but I came across a bunch of them at a trade show in Birmingham one time and they were well able for the top shelf , and anything else that came their way if you know what I mean.

NIMAN

Hamsterchops wrote: »

Sir Jeffrey Donaldson, Edwin Poots confirmed as DUP leadership contenders

http://www.rte.ie/news/regional/2021/0506/1214248-dup-candidates-confirmed/

What a terrible choice.

If that's what the DUP has available as leadership material, it says a lot about NI politics.

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

A SoS can call a BP at any time without breach of the GFA.



https://thedetail.tv/articles/border-poll-mechanics

I have acknowledged that time and again. In fact I have proposed that he do so.

The GFA allows for a border poll in certain circumstances, but there is nothing to stop an SOS or British government holding a border poll under other circumstances. However, and this is the crucial difference, such a border poll would only be indicative and not binding, as it would not be taking place under the GFA.

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

I have acknowledged that time and again. In fact I have proposed that he do so.

The GFA allows for a border poll in certain circumstances, but there is nothing to stop an SOS or British government holding a border poll under other circumstances. However, and this is the crucial difference, such a border poll would only be indicative and not binding, as it would not be taking place under the GFA.

Bizarre.

BonnieSituation

blanch152 wrote: »

I have acknowledged that time and again. In fact I have proposed that he do so.

The GFA allows for a border poll in certain circumstances, but there is nothing to stop an SOS or British government holding a border poll under other circumstances. However, and this is the crucial difference, such a border poll would only be indicative and not binding, as it would not be taking place under the GFA.

That's literal nonsense.

BonnieSituation

NIMAN wrote: »

What a terrible choice.

If that's what the DUP has available as leadership material, it says a lot about NI politics.

Well, that's Unionism as a whole. A wholely uninspiring ideology lit with wholely uninspiring people.

Loafing Oaf

realdanbreen wrote: »

but I came across a bunch of them at a trade show in Birmingham one time and they were well able for the top shelf , and anything else that came their way if you know what I mean.

Dyr

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

Just updated my 'Five Partitionist Stages of Grief'.

Phase 1: 'never going to happen'.

Phase 2: 'not ready for this it's decades away yet'.

Phase 3: 'we can't afford it'.

Phase 4: 'Unionists must buy in'.

Phase 5: 'NI must go independent'


The utter desperation is hilarious.

Actually the final stage in the Conor Cruise O'Brien cycle is to finally stop pretending and admit that you're a Unionist.

Theres lads on here who'll be stuffing wads of twenties in UVF collection jars if it looks like there's going to a border poll.

RandomViewer

Bambi wrote: »

Actually the final stage in the Conor Cruise O'Brien cycle is to finally stop pretending and admit that you're a Unionist.

Theres lads on here who'll be stuffing wads of twenties in UVF collection jars if it looks like there's going to a border poll.

Anyone remember Cruise O'Briens rant against the IRA ceasefire in the News of the World, (dont know if Sam Fox appeared on the same page)

FrancieBrady

Another Unionist leader gone...Steve Aitken UUP resigns.

BonnieSituation

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Another Unionist leader gone...Steve Aitken UUP resigns.

My heart bleeds for unionism.

O'Neill

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Another Unionist leader gone...Steve Aitken UUP resigns.

His interview last week with Mark Caruthers was a shambles. First talked about how his party didn't sign up to 'NDNA' so didn't agree on an Irish Language Act meanwhile desribing his party as 'progressive.'

When asked of any progressive policies his party holds, he replied how his party put forward a motion in SUPPORT of gay conversion theorty :rolleyes: (Clearly it was banning but he said it twice! The idea of even using the example of banning conversion theory is seen as progressive alone speaks volumes.

He actually comes across as a likeable guy imo but he's clearly out of his depth.

BonnieSituation

The Newsletter wrote:

He insisted unionism needed positive, hopeful and progressive leadership.

https://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/politics/steven-aiken-resigns-as-he-tells-ulster-unionists-we-need-new-leadership-3229365

Don't they say they after every UUP resignation, and then they lurch to the right during bouts of Anti-Taigism?

The game is up for moderate Unionism. As an ideology Ulster Unionism is an anachronism.

May this meltdown continue.

Seth Brundle

Brexit: NI Protocol 'positive for NI's seafood sector'

The NI Protocol creates a "positive situation" for NI's seafood sector, a report published by Stormont's Agriculture Minister Edwin Poots says.
...
"This is a positive situation for the export-dependent NI seafood sector, without the admin burden or the delays faced by GB exporters that impacts freshness and so price."

It describes the expected long-term situation as "either comparatively beneficial for NI seafood exporters" or if the protocol should be revoked "on a par with other parts of the UK".

With Poots's anti-NIP position, the phrase "biting your nose to spite your face" comes to mind :rolleyes:

RandomViewer

Julian Simmons next UUP leader?

BonnieSituation

BonnieSituation wrote: »

"...better explain the Unionist cause in Brussels, London and North America..."

I mean... eh... Hmmmm...

I was thinking about this post again there.

I mean, Unionism as the "victors" of partition really shouldn't have a cause.

I can just never get my head around the victimhood they always portray? What is it about the "British"-psyche that they must wail at perceived injustices all the time?

It must be exhausting.

blanch152

BonnieSituation wrote: »

I was thinking about this post again there.

I mean, Unionism as the "victors" of partition really shouldn't have a cause.

I can just never get my head around the victimhood they always portray? What is it about the "British"-psyche that they must wail at perceived injustices all the time?

It must be exhausting.

I think it is just a Northern Irish thing.

maccored

blanch152 wrote: »

I think it is just a Northern Irish thing.

its just a Unionist thing

Loafing Oaf

O'Neill wrote: »

His interview last week with Mark Caruthers was a shambles. First talked about how his party didn't sign up to 'NDNA' .

Sounds like he did sign up for a large consignment of MDMA...

realdanbreen

When is the DUP leader to be announced?