Arlene, Edwin, her replacement and his replacement as leader of the DUP

Normal One

ReginaldSmythV wrote: »

Loyalism isn’t going away just because their main party is currently a mess.

It doesn’t have to go away, just its dwindling majority.

CaoimhinCong

ReginaldSmythV wrote: »

I’d see all this as you being as far as ever from joining the states. Loyalism isn’t going away just because their main party is currently a mess. The fact there’s this much belligerence in them to go to these lengths shows how far off it really is.

Loyalism wants nothing to do with the DUP and hasn't. The only ones clinging to the DUP was East Belfast D.A and North down. Settle pettle.

joe40

briany wrote: »

This wouldn't happen, so it's not really worth even really considering. It's not some occupied territory such as you'd find in wartime. I know some barstoolers can refer to it that way, but that's certainly not the reality of international law. NI having a border poll is one thing, but no way is the UK government is going to move to remove a part of its territory without such a referendum being held.

Westminster govt could cut NI funding to such an extent a UI would become the only option. I don't think they would but I believe if they really wanted rid of NI they would find a way.

By the way what happens if storming falls again could we have the situation where Westminster just takes full control in the long term.

CaoimhinCong

ShagNastii wrote: »

It’s destined to kick off in the North.

What else do the loyalists have left? They’ve even started overtly acknowledging they don’t trust anyone in Westminster.

The UK have left the EU and the second Brexit was signed left NI.

It won't kick off

CaoimhinCong

joe40 wrote: »

Westminster govt could cut NI funding to such an extent a UI would become the only option. I don't think they would but I believe if they really wanted rid of NI they would find a way.

By the way what happens if storming falls again could we have the situation where Westminster just takes full control in the long term.

If stormont repeats what happened, it will be direct rule or British and Irish govts calling shots.

1percent

Was thinking while reading the last few pages of this thread, in Bojos shtick about the protocol and NI being an integral part of the UK just an early negotiating position?

Like a lad on done deal trying to flog a clapped out old Punto saying how great a car it is, emotional value, won't let it go for less then the price shown. He is doing it so that when it comes to brass taks Westminster won't need to support it as much after its gone?

Say for example, current running cost is £11B, arguable I know in a UI scenario, and when unification/integration happens they will be expected to keep supporting NI for some length of time to a certain value/year. But by saying how much it means to him he can get out for say £3B for 5 years rather than if he said, I'm done, take it away, I don't want to look at the place again! We could get them on the hook for £15B for 10 years.

The above is an exaggerated thought experiment obviously but what does the brain trust on here think?

retalivity

ShagNastii wrote: »

It’s destined to kick off in the North.

What else do the loyalists have left? They’ve even started overtly acknowledging they don’t trust anyone in Westminster.

The UK have left the EU and the second Brexit was signed left NI.

A few weeks out from marching season, you'd imagine the 'culture' will be especially fiery and provocative this year with everything else thats going on

Darc19

Funny how true the thread title reads

The end of Arlene and her replacement.

The op is a DUP mole.

NIMAN

It's won't kick off.
Who exactly would kick off? The loyalists? Bunch of hoods, criminals and drug dealers. They couldn't organise a piss up in a brewery.

Republicans?
This is perfect for them. Watching the loyalists implode and bringing a border poll closer. They are loving this.

And all it took was to push a language very few can speak and even less want to speak.

Result.

CaoimhinCong

retalivity wrote: »

A few weeks out from marching season, you'd imagine the 'culture' will be especially fiery and provocative this year with everything else thats going on

A lot of rhetoric will be drummed out. Very few contentious parades, No Ardoyne, No Workman's avenue.

CaoimhinCong

NIMAN wrote: »

It's won't kick off.
Who exactly would kick off? The loyalists? Bunch of hoods, criminals and drug dealers. They couldn't organise a piss up in a brewery.

Republicans?
This is perfect for them. Watching the loyalists implode and bringing a border poll closer. They are loving this.

And all it took was to push a language very few can speak and even less want to speak.

Result.

Loyalism has no stomach for a war. They will pump out bitterness and bile for the next month it will amount to nothing. Good morning ulster and George from the shankill will get it all a bit feisty. Then they will be Baton charged off their own estates and it will be quiet again.

An poblacht Abu.

breezy1985

1percent wrote: »

Was thinking while reading the last few pages of this thread, in Bojos shtick about the protocol and NI being an integral part of the UK just an early negotiating position?

Like a lad on done deal trying to flog a clapped out old Punto saying how great a car it is, emotional value, won't let it go for less then the price shown. He is doing it so that when it comes to brass taks Westminster won't need to support it as much after its gone?

Say for example, current running cost is £11B, arguable I know in a UI scenario, and when unification/integration happens they will be expected to keep supporting NI for some length of time to a certain value/year. But by saying how much it means to him he can get out for say £3B for 5 years rather than if he said, I'm done, take it away, I don't want to look at the place again! We could get them on the hook for £15B for 10 years.

The above is an exaggerated thought experiment obviously but what does the brain trust on here think?

We should put the NI running cost on the side of a big bus and drive it round London to convince the English to be rid of it.

Worked last time

josip

NIMAN wrote: »

It's won't kick off.
Who exactly would kick off? The loyalists? Bunch of hoods, criminals and drug dealers. They couldn't organise a piss up in a brewery.

Republicans?
This is perfect for them. Watching the loyalists implode and bringing a border poll closer. They are loving this.

And all it took was to push a language very few can speak and even less want to speak.

Result.

How does the DUP in disarray bring a border poll closer?
What are the criteria for calling a poll, I assume it would take agreement from UK and Irish govts?
And a bit like Scottish Independence, going for it too early might set things back by a decade or two.

McMurphy

ShagNastii wrote: »

It’s destined to kick off in the North.

What else do the loyalists have left? They’ve even started overtly acknowledging they don’t trust anyone in Westminster.

The UK have left the EU and the second Brexit was signed left NI.

Doubt it, loyalists don't have the might of the British security forces of the 70s/80s etc at their beck and call these days. Any unsettlement from them would most likely be contained quickly and decisively by the 2021 security forces and the rest of the community they would attempt to terrorise.

Changed times and changed political landscape up there now.

breezy1985

McMurphy wrote: »

Doubt it, loyalists don't have the might of the British security forces of the 70s/80s etc at their beck and call these days. Any unsettlement from them would most likely be contained quickly and decisively by the 2021 security forces and the rest of the community they would attempt to terrorise.

Changed times and changed political landscape up there now.

That's if the British army even show up. Most of Englands top politicans can't even find NI on a map.

Sure jeysus some can't even find Dover

FrancieBrady

The View is priceless.
A supposedly partisan journalist (Ben Lowry) attacking SF and presumably all the other parties who backed this legislation, with Unionist politicians there and not another representative of nationalism nor the Alliance.

Fecking hell, talk about circling wagons.

CaoimhinCong

When I think back to being a young boy standing on the edge of Clonard watching what was left of Bombay street burn, I never thought wed see the complete capitulation of Unionism without raising a hand in anger for many years.

A song which used to be sang in the Shamrock bar in Ardoyne at the end of the war was one about a regiment who were hated more then any other.

These soldiers come from Scotland, a place we all know well, From the hardest parts of Glasgow where the Teddy Bears do dwell
They're given a British uniform and given a British gun .They join a British regiment just to have themselves some fun.

The republic many men women and children gave their lives for is beyond the horizon. Unionism lacking any solid leadership, disarray in rank and file Loyalists, PUL community looking to cross community parties as a new electoral option splitting the orange vote. Its a good day.

jimmycrackcorm

josip wrote: »

How does the DUP in disarray bring a border poll closer?
What are the criteria for calling a poll, I assume it would take agreement from UK and Irish govts?
And a bit like Scottish Independence, going for it too early might set things back by a decade or two.

I think if the DUP hardliners threaten to pull Stormont, the British government could propose going ahead with a border poll. It could get rid of that pesky NI protocol thorn.

I'm not entirely surprised that Poots is gone. It doesn't strike me as a trait of leadership when you become the leader of the party yet don't become FM. Givan would be in the media all the time and Poots would just be a silent partner.

RonanG86

skimpydoo wrote: »

Jim Wells from the DUP just said on the Tonight Show that they are against the Irish Language Act because SF are using it as a political weapon.

Rich from the blokes who abused the Petition of Concern to try and block Marriage Equality legislation.

josip

But a border poll wouldn't have a chance of succeeding.
Just because the DUP are in disarray doesn't mean that unionists will suddenly en masse decide they want to be part of a united Ireland.
The last poll I saw was 55-45 I think and seeing what happened in Scotland I wouldn't be surprised if it ended up being closer to 60-40 on poll day.

breezy1985

breezy1985 wrote: »

We should put the NI running cost on the side of a big bus and drive it round London to convince the English to be rid of it.

Worked last time

And do the same in Dublin.

Larbre34

Not yet. The first thing Boris would do without a Stormont is finalise all the long term things he wants to do, that an active Stormont would have control over or could oppose.

Besides, the Brits literally couldn't handle managing a border poll as they enter post pandemic economic hell AND the crystallisation of Brexit. Not with the doped they have managing the show at the moment at any rate.

breezy1985

josip wrote: »

But a border poll wouldn't have a chance of succeeding.
Just because the DUP are in disarray doesn't mean that unionists will suddenly en masse decide they want to be part of a united Ireland.
The last poll I saw was 55-45 I think and seeing what happened in Scotland I wouldn't be surprised if it ended up being closer to 60-40 on poll day.

I agree. The next logical step is a SF first minister and at the same time there will be a slow drift instigated by the English to achieve their sunny uplands brexit. Any border poll is a good while off

FrancieBrady

Interesting that the View were advertising Brandon Lewis as a guest on the show and he didn't appear. They never said why either.

1percent

[Deleted User] wrote: »

And do the same in Dublin.

With Cummings as Campaign Director?

To be honnest, when the starters pistol is fired, I think you would have the power and the purse strings of, FFG, SF, USA (some Dems & some Reps) and the EU in favour of a UI, in the other corner will be the DUP and maybe Nigle Farage.

It seems like a bit of an unfair fight, especially when the orange corner starts to rip itself in 2 before the bell has even gone ding!

Fionn1952

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Interesting that the View were advertising Brandon Lewis as a guest on the show and he didn't appear. They never said why either.

Mark Carruthers did address it, Francie. Stated that the context of the interview was no longer applicable or something to that effect.

Kermit.de.frog

https://twitter.com/iresimpsonsfans/status/1405596318781919235

FrancieBrady

Fionn1952 wrote: »

Mark Carruthers did address it, Francie. Stated that the context of the interview was no longer applicable or something to that effect.

Ok. Cheers for that. Must have missed that while I fumed at Lowry being allowed his bile as he is on RTE.

Fionn1952

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Ok. Cheers for that. Must have missed that while I fumed at Lowry being allowed his bile as he is on RTE.

Ah in fairness, Lowry is such a caricature it's comical rather than infuriating to me. I says to herself as soon as I saw him, 'wait and see how long it takes him to go off on one about SF', and away he goes like clockwork.

Would near remind you of some of the posting that goes on here at times.

FrancieBrady

Fionn1952 wrote: »

Ah in fairness, Lowry is such a caricature it's comical rather than infuriating to me. I says to herself as soon as I saw him, 'wait and see how long it takes him to go off on one about SF', and away he goes like clockwork.

Would near remind you of some of the posting that goes on here at times.

Particularly bitter tonight though, I thought. But then, I guess belligerent Unionism is particularly bitter tonight. Pengelly sounded positively reasonable in comparison.