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Arlene, Edwin, her replacement and his replacement as leader of the DUP

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    #1202
    NIMAN
    Registered Users Posts: 33,659 ✭✭✭✭NIMAN


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    There is more to it than speaking the language. You cannot preserve the wealth of our culture if you discard, or allow the language to die out. An 'Act' gives Irish language activists the platform to promote and preserve the culture not just the physical language. It's as simple as that and why languages are protected around the world in this statutory way.

    I have absolutely no issue with protections being put in place for all things Irish, I'm just stating the fact that it doesn't really matter to the vast majority of the population.

    I'm glad to see it finally pushed by the British government, since they had said they would. Plus it just highlights more the naked anti-Irishness of the DUP, and shows them up on the world stage.


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    #1203
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 69,175 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    NIMAN wrote: »
    I have absolutely no issue with protections being put in place for all things Irish, I'm just stating the fact that it doesn't really matter to the vast majority of the population.

    I'm glad to see it finally pushed by the British government, since they had said they would. Plus it just highlights more the naked anti-Irishness of the DUP, and shows them up on the world stage.

    Why say things like this then?
    To bring down a government and stop proper politics in the North all because of the Irish language is sad.

    'Proper politics' is impossible if fundamental rights such as these cannot be sorted.


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    #1204
    ArthurDayne
    Registered Users Posts: 1,772 ✭✭✭ArthurDayne


    6 wrote: »
    What's the issue with the Irish language act for the DUP?

    They cant handle anything being given to nationalists. It's pathetic tbh. When you add their opposition to the LGBT community it's bigotry plain and simple.

    Caveman politics tbh.

    Their disdain for the Irish language is based on a belief that it (among other things) blurs the lines of distinction between North and South -- a distinction which they see as important for maintaining the narrative of separation.

    I believe the view was best summed by a Grand Master of the Orange Lodge being interviewed and, in the context of being asked about the Irish language, evoked the example of Hitler invading the Sudetenland because the people there spoke German.

    That's the level of nuance we are dealing with here.


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    #1205
    blanch152
    Registered Users Posts: 27,971 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    CaoimhinCong wrote: »
    Cheerio cheerio cheeriooooo
    Cheerio cheerio cheeriooooo

    We've never been closer to a U.I now

    Hopefully, this will bring an end to the type of extreme unionism promulgated by the DUP. As one of the two main sectarian parties, they are a blight on the landscape.

    However, this doesn't mean the end of unionism, or the end of the union. In fact, a more balanced approach, showing that it is possible for both sides to live together within the current constructs may well strengthen the UK, as well as being more likely to expose the sectarian bigots on the other side.


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    #1206
    Capt'n Midnight
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 91,837 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    6 wrote: »
    What's the issue with the Irish language act for the DUP?
    The last time they had a good idea on this was when they tried to outflank it by demanding Ulster Scots get the same recognition.

    But they weren't expecting others to go "OK, if that's what it takes"

    They still don't get Pragmatism or Realpolitik or that
    'Politics is the art of the possible, the attainable — the art of the next best'
    - Bismark




    They still don't get that if you bite the hand that feeds you, expect consequences.
    Now is not the time to upset Downing St.


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    #1207
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 69,175 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Capt'n Midnight wrote: »
    The last time they had a good idea on this was when they tried to outflank it by demanding Ulster Scots get the same recognition.

    But they weren't expecting others to go "OK, if that's what it takes"

    .

    Forgotten or wilfully ignored by those who are flat out with the 'both sides are the same' tropes.

    Provision for Ulster Scots was never resisted by 'the other side'.


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    #1208
    AMKC
    Registered Users Posts: 16,125 ✭✭✭✭AMKC
    Ms


    Delighted he is gone. Did not like him in the slightest. No idea why he is gone except for some internal row and they are not happy about how England are treating them or something. Be interesting to see who is next and how long they last lol.

    Live long and Prosper

    Peace and long life.



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    #1209
    fash
    Registered Users Posts: 2,275 ✭✭✭fash


    NIMAN wrote: »
    Poots got us the Irish Language Act sorted in 3 weeks.

    Maybe the new leader will get us the UI by year end?
    ... And before that Arlene brought about a sea border, gay marriage and abortion rights.
    Sinn Fein should start to worry that their voters may begin to think that the DUP is doing a better job of bringing about a UI etc than them at this stage.


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    #1210
    nc6000
    Registered Users Posts: 3,252 ✭✭✭nc6000


    ArthurDayne wrote: »
    Their disdain for the Irish language is based on a belief that it (among other things) blurs the lines of distinction between North and South -- a distinction which they see as important for maintaining the narrative of separation.

    I believe the view was best summed by a Grand Master of the Orange Lodge being interviewed and, in the context of being asked about the Irish language, evoked the example of Hitler invading the Sudetenland because the people there spoke German.

    That's the level of nuance we are dealing with here.

    They must think we will send our army north with instructions to keep going while you see road signs with the names in Irish.


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    #1211
    Danzy
    Registered Users Posts: 13,839 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    blanch152 wrote: »
    Hopefully, this will bring an end to the type of extreme unionism promulgated by the DUP. As one of the two main sectarian parties, they are a blight on the landscape.

    However, this doesn't mean the end of unionism, or the end of the union. In fact, a more balanced approach, showing that it is possible for both sides to live together within the current constructs may well strengthen the UK, as well as being more likely to expose the sectarian bigots on the other side.

    Theoretically, but the problem for Unionism is that the English see Unionists as Irish people and I don't think it is possible to convince a majority of them that they are British.

    It's not active disdain from the Tories or English, it's a complete lack of interest in the plight, needs or concerns of Unionists.

    The Protocol was just the starkest sign of that.


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    #1212
    McMurphy
    Registered Users Posts: 13,365 ✭✭✭✭McMurphy


    https://twitter.com/BigDirtyFry/status/1405618931835060228?s=19


    :pac:


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    #1213
    josip
    Registered Users Posts: 13,999 ✭✭✭✭josip


    Danzy wrote: »
    Theoretically, but the problem for Unionism is that the English see Unionists as Irish people and I don't think it is possible to convince a majority of them that they are British.

    It's not active disdain from the Tories or English, it's a complete lack of interest in the plight, needs or concerns of Unionists.

    The Protocol was just the starkest sign of that.


    I think that there's also an element of, would they want to consider Unionists as their kin?
    Unionism that is visible in the media at present, has no redeeming factors that would encourage any kind of association.


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    #1214
    Claw Hammer
    Registered Users Posts: 6,243 ✭✭✭Claw Hammer


    ArthurDayne wrote: »
    Their disdain for the Irish language is based on a belief that it (among other things) blurs the lines of distinction between North and South -- a distinction which they see as important for maintaining the narrative of separation.

    I believe the view was best summed by a Grand Master of the Orange Lodge being interviewed and, in the context of being asked about the Irish language, evoked the example of Hitler invading the Sudetenland because the people there spoke German.

    That's the level of nuance we are dealing with here.

    Hitler was given the Sudetenland. Irish is the former language of Ireland, not the current one.


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    #1215
    josip
    Registered Users Posts: 13,999 ✭✭✭✭josip


    Beasty wrote: »
    Thread title updated.....

    (This may not be the final one)

    Sorry, still not happy with the updated title of the thread. :)
    'Edwin' and 'her replacement' are one and the same.
    The comma between them should be removed.


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    #1216
    Seth Brundle
    Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 39,893 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    Claw Hammer wrote: »
    Irish is the former language of Ireland, not the current one.
    May I refer you to Art 8 of Bunreacht na hÉireann...
    ARTICLE 8
    1 The Irish language as the national language is the first official language.
    2 The English language is recognised as a second official language.
    http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/cons/en/html#part1


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    #1217
    Claw Hammer
    Registered Users Posts: 6,243 ✭✭✭Claw Hammer


    Seth Brundle wrote: »
    May I refer you to Art 8 of Bunreacht na hÉireann...
    http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/cons/en/html#part1

    That is just a legal fiction. The language used by the majority of people in Ireland is English. There are a tiny number who use Irish as a day to day language and most of those are obliged to use English frequently in order to carry out there business. The Irish language is at this stage an academic language like Latin. No amount of constitutional argument is going to change that.


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    #1218
    briany
    Registered Users Posts: 14,006 ✭✭✭✭briany


    ArthurDayne wrote: »
    Their disdain for the Irish language is based on a belief that it (among other things) blurs the lines of distinction between North and South -- a distinction which they see as important for maintaining the narrative of separation.


    Stating the obvious, here, I know, but that belief would be totally errant. The lines have long since been blurred between the Republic and the North. Invisible border, Gaelic games, St. Patrick's day celebrations etc. The GFA enshrines the ability of NI people to identify as Irish if they so wish, and there is an Irish cultural life that already extends across the whole island. The Irish language gaining official status would only be a very small component of that.


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    #1219
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,465 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    Claw Hammer wrote: »
    That is just a legal fiction. The language used by the majority of people in Ireland is English. There are a tiny number who use Irish as a day to day language and most of those are obliged to use English frequently in order to carry out there business. The Irish language is at this stage an academic language like Latin. No amount of constitutional argument is going to change that.

    nobody is obliged to use english to conduct business with the state.


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    #1220
    Junkyard Tom
    Registered Users Posts: 10,117 ✭✭✭✭Junkyard Tom


    NIMAN wrote: »
    If we were all honest, 99% of the population, North and South, have no interest in speaking the Irish language.
    To bring down a government and stop proper politics in the North all because of the Irish language is sad.

    You are highlighting the 'success' of the cultural destruction of the native language as a criticism of attempts to protect it from further decline.

    It's a bit like Euro-Americans saying to Native Americans 'none of you guys follow the buffalo around with Tepees any more so why do you persist in being different'.


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    #1221
    Claw Hammer
    Registered Users Posts: 6,243 ✭✭✭Claw Hammer


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    nobody is obliged to use english to conduct business with the state.

    In theory maybe. As a practical reality it can be very awkward. In any event to do business with parties other than the state English is the only option in the vast majority of situations. Anybody seeking medical treatment, purchasing consumer items from a mainstream retailer or booking accommodation or even ordering a meal in a restaurant will find it very difficult or impossible to do so through Irish in most cases.


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    #1222
    realdanbreen
    Registered Users Posts: 8,211 ✭✭✭realdanbreen


    josip wrote: »
    Sorry, still not happy with the updated title of the thread. :)

    'Edwin' and 'her replacement' are one and the same.

    The comma between them should be removed.

    Over my dead body! No surrender!!


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    #1223
    josip
    Registered Users Posts: 13,999 ✭✭✭✭josip


    Claw Hammer wrote: »
    In theory maybe. As a practical reality it can be very awkward. In any event to do business with parties other than the state English is the only option in the vast majority of situations. Anybody seeking medical treatment, purchasing consumer items from a mainstream retailer or booking accommodation or even ordering a meal in a restaurant will find it very difficult or impossible to do so through Irish in most cases.

    I beg to differ and concur.
    Last summer, my son very fluently and proudly, gave his order as Gaeilge at the chipper in Dungloe.
    Poor Magda behind the counter hadn't a barney what he was saying and had to draft in a local for help :)


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    #1224
    padd b1975
    Registered Users Posts: 10,770 ✭✭✭✭padd b1975


    realdanbreen wrote: »
    I disagree.
    I think Sammy :mad:could last even up to 40 days as leader!

    I like Sammy.
    He makes the world a brighter place.

    Shambles of a politician obviously!


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    #1225
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 53,851 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    NIMAN wrote: »
    If we were all honest, 99% of the population, North and South, have no interest in speaking the Irish language.
    To bring down a government and stop proper politics in the North all because of the Irish language is sad.

    But its the principle that the Unionists are so anti-anything Irish that is the problem.

    People really should stop confusing the DUP with "Unionists". It's something I see a lot of on here, people trying to pigeon hole every unionist as a DUP type.

    There are plenty of unionists in the north who couldn't care less about an ILA, it is of no consequence to them.


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    #1226
    Claw Hammer
    Registered Users Posts: 6,243 ✭✭✭Claw Hammer


    josip wrote: »
    I beg to differ and concur.
    :)

    How are you differing and concurring simultaneously?


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    #1227
    NIMAN
    Registered Users Posts: 33,659 ✭✭✭✭NIMAN


    awec wrote: »
    People really should stop confusing the DUP with "Unionists". It's something I see a lot of on here, people trying to pigeon hole every unionist as a DUP type.

    There are plenty of unionists in the north who couldn't care less about an ILA, it is of no consequence to them.

    Apologies. I get what you say.


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    #1228
    Fann Linn
    Registered Users Posts: 7,800 ✭✭✭Fann Linn


    padd b1975 wrote: »
    I like Sammy.
    He makes the world a brighter place.

    Shambles of a politician obviously!

    Like Mattie and some of the Healy Rae's.


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    #1229
    padd b1975
    Registered Users Posts: 10,770 ✭✭✭✭padd b1975


    Fann Linn wrote: »
    Like Mattie and some of the Healy Rae's.

    Yeah, whatever the Nordie term for gombeen is-that's Sammy.


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    #1230
    josip
    Registered Users Posts: 13,999 ✭✭✭✭josip


    Claw Hammer wrote: »
    How are you differing and concurring simultaneously?

    On boards, everything is possible.
    Differing, because my son managed to conduct his business with a non-state entity through the medium of Irish.
    Concurring, because it wasn't possible with his initial point of contact.


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    #1231
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Claw Hammer wrote: »
    That is just a legal fiction. The language used by the majority of people in Ireland is English. There are a tiny number who use Irish as a day to day language and most of those are obliged to use English frequently in order to carry out there business. The Irish language is at this stage an academic language like Latin. No amount of constitutional argument is going to change that.




    My kids are both in Gaelscoil and speak away. Many of my friends are still conversationally capable and I'm relearning.


    GRMA


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