Arlene, Edwin, her replacement and his replacement as leader of the DUP

MadYaker

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

It's bat **** crazy anyway to speak Irish in the Assembly or the Dail when everyone speaks fluent English anyway. If the objective is to communicate clearly your points, trying to use the language that everyone understands should be the priority and not an exercise in political point-scoring.

Imagine if There was a Japanese factory here and the local manager (fluent in both English and Japanese) had to address the staff, wouldn't it be regarded as nonsensical for him to speak using Japanese and require a translator?

Come to think of it, I can't recall last when I heard TD's give speeches in Irish, perhaps once by Gerry, but he stuck to English for nearly everything.

What's your problem with the Irish language?

Jump_In_Jack

Claw Hammer wrote: »

Pettifogging. Anyone can have a typo. I will refrain from back seat-modding.

Thanks for sharing that great word!!

jimmycrackcorm

Deleted User wrote: »

So abandon our heritage because we were colonised? Sure

You should direct it to our TD's who aren't using Irish in the Dail...

ohnonotgmail

Claw Hammer wrote: »

In theory maybe. As a practical reality it can be very awkward. In any event to do business with parties other than the state English is the only option in the vast majority of situations. Anybody seeking medical treatment, purchasing consumer items from a mainstream retailer or booking accommodation or even ordering a meal in a restaurant will find it very difficult or impossible to do so through Irish in most cases.

I said "with the state". How was that not clear?

jimmycrackcorm

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

You should direct it to our TD's who aren't using Irish in the Dail...

That's their own business but the facility for them to do so is there

jimmycrackcorm

MadYaker wrote: »

What's your problem with the Irish language?

I don't have a problem with the Irish language per se. After all, my kids attend Gaelscoils, are totally fluent, and I tell them that the reason I sent them there starting at Primary school, was that our country has become generically anglicized, and later in life, they will appreciate being fluent in Gaeilge as a lifelong trait of being Irish. Because I want to preserve that and it's been one of the best parenting decisions I've made.

So no, the issue I'm pointing out is the ridiculousness of using the Irish language in settings where it doesn't make actual sense and actually detracts in an environment (the Assembly) where clear communication is the actual business being conducted. Having a translator for Ulster-Scots is also just as ridiculous for the same reason.

My eldest, who is fluent, just started a new job and I doubt he'd get far insisting that his employer provide a translater so he can use what is our constitutional first language.

Muahahaha

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

AFAIK the person that did the Irish translatation also did the Ulster Scots.

Im not up to date on it all but the article I read about a month back (think it was the Irish Times) gave the impression Stormont would need one translator for Irish and another one for Ulster Scots. The writer made the point that no current MLA is fluent in Ulster Scots so the translator would be hired for Stormont but wouldnt actually have anything to translate. This is in regards to live audio translation and not translation of transcripts after the event.

Now maybe they intend to have the Ulster Scots translator sitting there live translating all english spoken into Ulster Scots. In that event it will be interesting to see what happens if children with Downs Syndrome get mentioned in parliament as the Ulster Scots translation for them is "wee dafties", I doubt thats going to go down very well with parents of children with Downs.

Fann Linn

Muahahaha wrote: »

Im not up to date on it all but the article I read about a month back (think it was the Irish Times) gave the impression Stormont would need one translator for Irish and another one for Ulster Scots. The writer made the point that no current MLA is fluent in Ulster Scots so the translator would be hired for Stormont but wouldnt actually have anything to translate. This is in regards to live audio translation and not translation of transcripts after the event.

Now maybe they intend to have the Ulster Scots translator sitting there live translating all english spoken into Ulster Scots. In that event it will be interesting to see what happens if children with Downs Syndrome get mentioned in parliament as the Ulster Scots translation for them is "wee dafties", I doubt thats going to go down very well with parents of children with Downs.

Is this true about 'wee dafties'?

josip

Fann Linn wrote: »

Is this true about 'wee dafties'?

Hard to get an objective source on that.
https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:F8tvCCHGgmQJ:https://www.irishtimes.com/culture/chairman-o-tha-boord-1.1019761+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=ie&client=firefox-b-d

Muahahaha

Fann Linn wrote: »

Is this true about 'wee dafties'?

From 2006

Although Ulster Scots is closely identified with unionism and loyalism, surely one of the greatest challenges for the agency is to reach out to the many people, both Protestant and Catholic, who have been seriously turned off by the perceived flakiness of the movement. There were plenty of sniggers in 2002, when the post of chief executive of the agency was advertised. Candidates were informed that they "maun hae wrocht for thrie yeir or mair as a high-heidyin in a tap offis jab" (must have a minimum of three years' appropriate experience as a senior executive). More recently, the reported claim that the phrase for disabled children in Ulster Scots was "wee dafties" had many people recoiling in horror.

https://www.irishtimes.com/culture/chairman-o-tha-boord-1.1019761

I think after the wee dafties phrase was reported the head of the Ulster Scots language agency claimed someone told him it was an incorrect translation without offering what the real translation is. The phrase didnt come out of nowhere and it being an Ulster Scots phrase in the first place was never denied. So it sounds to me like it is real but that they are backtracking on it.

Claw Hammer

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

I said "with the state". How was that not clear?

Who said it wasn't? Just because, in theory you can deal with the state through Irish, the fact that you have to go to a lot of trouble to do so illustrates the fact that Irish is not the language of Ireland.

nc6000

The outside of that DUP office could do with a tidy up.

Capt'n Midnight

Muahahaha wrote: »

Im not up to date on it all but the article I read about a month back (think it was the Irish Times) gave the impression Stormont would need one translator for Irish and another one for Ulster Scots. The writer made the point that no current MLA is fluent in Ulster Scots so the translator would be hired for Stormont but wouldnt actually have anything to translate. This is in regards to live audio translation and not translation of transcripts after the event.

Now maybe they intend to have the Ulster Scots translator sitting there live translating all english spoken into Ulster Scots. In that event it will be interesting to see what happens if children with Downs Syndrome get mentioned in parliament as the Ulster Scots translation for them is "wee dafties", I doubt thats going to go down very well with parents of children with Downs.

I thought was for the written records. If it it was to translate the other languages into English only one person is supposed speak at a time.

Live translation into Irish or Ulster Scots for whom ?


http://www.niassembly.gov.uk/about-the-assembly/general-information/information-leaflets/ulster-scots/ if you have any comprehension problems then read it out loud in a Norn Iron accent.

joe40

Muahahaha wrote: »

Im not up to date on it all but the article I read about a month back (think it was the Irish Times) gave the impression Stormont would need one translator for Irish and another one for Ulster Scots. The writer made the point that no current MLA is fluent in Ulster Scots so the translator would be hired for Stormont but wouldnt actually have anything to translate. This is in regards to live audio translation and not translation of transcripts after the event.

Now maybe they intend to have the Ulster Scots translator sitting there live translating all english spoken into Ulster Scots. In that event it will be interesting to see what happens if children with Downs Syndrome get mentioned in parliament as the Ulster Scots translation for them is "wee dafties", I doubt thats going to go down very well with parents of children with Downs.

Everyone is fluent in Ulster Scots, you just need to speak English with a Antrim accent.

Strazdas

RTE reckon Givan might well be left in place as FM - reduces the risk of an election and gives the DUP time to regroup (they say this would probably be welcomed by the Irish Govt too).

Muahahaha

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

I thought was for the written records. If it it was to translate the other languages into English only one person is supposed speak at a time.

Live translation into Irish or Ulster Scots for whom ?

http://www.niassembly.gov.uk/about-the-assembly/general-information/information-leaflets/ulster-scots/ if you have any comprehension problems then read it out loud in a Norn Iron accent.

I think its for the other way round, i.e. Sinn Fein could give a speech in Irish in Stormont and it would be live translated into English so the unionists could listen to it through headphones, similar to how politicians do now in the EU parliament.

But the argument that broke out was that if SF were getting an Irish translator then the DUP wanted an Ulster Scots one even though none of their MLAs are fluent in Ulster Scots and wouldnt be able to make a speech using it. The article was saying a live Ulster Scots to english translator is going to be needed as part of DUP demands in exchange for supporting the Language Act going ahead.

I know signage around Stormont already has the three languages on it. So for example on the door of the womens toilets there is a sign which says
'Ladies'
'Mna'
'Wimmenfolk'

There was probably even arguments about the order that they get listed too.

ohnonotgmail

Claw Hammer wrote: »

Who said it wasn't? Just because, in theory you can deal with the state through Irish, the fact that you have to go to a lot of trouble to do so illustrates the fact that Irish is not the language of Ireland.

you responded with irrelevant nonsense about dealing with the private sector

votecounts

https://twitter.com/Tracey_utv/status/1405933279325392899
I see the UDA/UVF are back issuing threats and will have input with DUP leader. who if Donaldson, have allegedly made prior threats against him.
Under GFA, weren't these groups supposed to disband so why not have them arrested

Fann Linn

votecounts wrote: »

https://twitter.com/Tracey_utv/status/1405933279325392899
I see the UDA/UVF are back issuing threats and will have input with DUP leader. who if Donaldson, have allegedly made prior threats against him.
Under GFA, weren't these groups supposed to disband so why not have them arrested

Threats are never too far behind.

Professor Moriarty

Muahahaha wrote: »

I think its for the other way round, i.e. Sinn Fein could give a speech in Irish in Stormont and it would be live translated into English so the unionists could listen to it through headphones, similar to how politicians do now in the EU parliament.

But the argument that broke out was that if SF were getting an Irish translator then the DUP wanted an Ulster Scots one even though none of their MLAs are fluent in Ulster Scots and wouldnt be able to make a speech using it. The article was saying a live Ulster Scots to english translator is going to be needed as part of DUP demands in exchange for supporting the Language Act going ahead.

I know signage around Stormont already has the three languages on it. So for example on the door of the womens toilets there is a sign which says
'Ladies'
'Mna'
'Wimmenfolk'

There was probably even arguments about the order that they get listed too.

Here is an official document in the Ulster Scots language. Apologies if it is a difficult language to understand.

Dae A need a new aerial?

Gin ye hae guid analogue reception the nou, ye'r like no tae need tae replace yer ruiftap or set-tap aerial for the cheenge-ower – thare nae sic thing as a 'deegital aerial'. But gin ye hae ill analogue reception the nou, ye’ll mebbe need tae replace it.

Find oot by gaun til the aerial-pruifer on Teletext page 284. Anither wey is tae wait until efter the cheenge-ower for tae see if yer pictur's affect.

Professor Moriarty

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Here is an official document in the Ulster Scots language. Apologies if it is a difficult language to understand.

Dae A need a new aerial?

Gin ye hae guid analogue reception the nou, ye'r like no tae need tae replace yer ruiftap or set-tap aerial for the cheenge-ower – thare nae sic thing as a 'deegital aerial'. But gin ye hae ill analogue reception the nou, ye’ll mebbe need tae replace it.

Find oot by gaun til the aerial-pruifer on Teletext page 284. Anither wey is tae wait until efter the cheenge-ower for tae see if yer pictur's affect.

18th century English spoken by Rab C Nesbitt after a few tins.

Penfailed

What.Now wrote: »

How are they meant to do both at the same time?

Irish and Ulster Scots isn't spoken at the same time.

Furze99

Fann Linn wrote: »

Threats are never too far behind.

From both sides, let us remind ourselves. Not long at all since nationalist voices on both sides of the border hinted at dire consequences if border checkpoints between NI and the Republic were reinstated.

Brexit has been a complete disaster for the people up north. Caught between two sets of opposing teeth and leveraged to promote arguments.

What were the Brits at backing the implementation of this culturally divisive legislation? They must have thought that Poots could carry the day, how wrong and what a f**k up in the end. Our government seem to be playing shy, what was their role in this decision, given we are co guarantors.

Who knows how the next DUP leader will square this, seems impossible without substantial collateral commitments. Looks like direct rule, an election and see what comes out of the mix.

Furze99

As for the infamous language act: worth remembering that our Official Languages Act only came in 80 years after independence and is still somewhat controversial. Wisest thing would to shelve this for a future day when there is a far higher degree of co-operation across the communities up north.

FrancieBrady

Furze99 wrote: »

From both sides, let us remind ourselves. Not long at all since nationalist voices on both sides of the border hinted at dire consequences if border checkpoints between NI and the Republic were reinstated.

Brexit has been a complete disaster for the people up north. Caught between two sets of opposing teeth and leveraged to promote arguments.

What were the Brits at backing the implementation of this culturally divisive legislation? They must have thought that Poots could carry the day, how wrong and what a f**k up in the end. Our government seem to be playing shy, what was their role in this decision, given we are co guarantors.

Who knows how the next DUP leader will square this, seems impossible without substantial collateral commitments. Looks like direct rule, an election and see what comes out of the mix.

Nationalists were warning about the threat from dissidents. Unionists (Poots himself) were inventing threats and vocally stoking people to engage in violence(see Jim Allister, Sammy Wilson etc)

FrancieBrady

Furze99 wrote: »

As for the infamous language act: worth remembering that our Official Languages Act only came in 80 years after independence and is still somewhat controversial. Wisest thing would to shelve this for a future day when there is a far higher degree of co-operation across the communities up north.

More 'lie down and wait for the Unionists to be democrats' tosh. Up the yard, as they say. The DUP agreed to this long ago with no intentions of ever allowing it.

They've been caught out, let them re-organise and we'll move on.

Junkyard Tom

Furze99 wrote: »

nationalist voices on both sides of the border hinted at dire consequences if border checkpoints between NI and the Republic were reinstated.

And rightly so. There can be no comparison between:

A. tangibly disrupting the lives of hundreds of thousands of Irish people

and

B. checks on goods at ports that hurt unionists' feelings.

Unionists need to suck up the consequences of their failed project to unravel the stitching-together of Ireland that continues apace.

Furze99

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Nationalists were warning about the threat from dissidents. Unionists (Poots himself) were inventing threats and vocally stoking people to engage in violence(see Jim Allister, Sammy Wilson etc)

Dissidents.. UDA, UVF - all the same to Seán or Sinéad citizen down south.

I get you on the DUP and language act - you've no interest in finding commonality of purpose between all communities up north. That's fine - but don't pretend that it furthers some form of united Ireland in any shape or form.

FrancieBrady

Furze99 wrote: »

Dissidents.. UDA, UVF - all the same to Seán or Sinéad citizen down south.

I get you on the DUP and language act - you've no interest in finding commonality of purpose between all communities up north. That's fine - but don't pretend that it furthers some form of united Ireland in any shape or form.

Commonality of purpise was found in the GFA in which these rights were garunteed.
The DUP werw reneging. They have lost. They weaponised it by resisting and shot themselves in the foot. Boo hoo.

CaoimhinCong

Furze99 wrote: »

Dissidents.. UDA, UVF - all the same to Seán or Sinéad citizen down south.

I get you on the DUP and language act - you've no interest in finding commonality of purpose between all communities up north. That's fine - but don't pretend that it furthers some form of united Ireland in any shape or form.

Ah Mr bird there you are.