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Arlene, Edwin, her replacement and his replacement as leader of the DUP
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I've heard Adams speaking in Irish in interviews, I don't know if he is 100% fluent but he does seem to be able to converse in it anyway.
I've never heard McDonald speak it though, maybe she can but if not theres no excuse for her not to know it being well educated and from Dublin.0 -
Galwayguy35 wrote: »I've heard Adams speaking in Irish in interviews, I don't know if he is 100% fluent but he does seem to be able to converse in it anyway.
I've never heard McDonald speak it though, maybe she can but if not theres no excuse for her not to know it being well educated and from Dublin.
I've heard him speak "as Gaeilge". In fairness, I'd regard his Irish as adequate, but he lacks the "blas" of a Native speaker - which is fair enough. He clearly speaks it frequently, imo0 -
Is the logic here that in order for a quest for rights to be serious you have to be capable of availing of that right?
Therefore as a man passionate about the right to same sex marriage I would have to be married to or want to marry another man? Or if I was passionate about abortion rights I would have to be in need of one?0 -
Thread title is a killer on "Boards Charades "0
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https://twitter.com/ArmaghPatrick/status/1406239330989973511
Sums up the Unionists position perfectly0 -
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DUP: Paul Givan told he must resign as first minister
And there was me thinking things might start to settle down!0 -
DUP: Paul Givan told he must resign as first minister
And there was me thinking things might start to settle down!
This was always going to happen. Vincent Kearney from RTE was saying earlier that Givan wanted to resign after Poots was forced to, but the leadership told him to stay on until they had a new leader.
If Givan resigns, then it's 7 days to nominate a new FM and go back into power-sharing. The DUP won't even have a leader by then.
If Givan had any backbone or any support for his friend Poots, then he would have told them all to go f*ck themselves and stepped down. Should make it clear that it's not his problem.0 -
https://twitter.com/ArmaghPatrick/status/1406239330989973511
Sums up the Unionists position perfectly
If the unionists want to be just like everyone else in the UK they should stop giving a s**t about NI
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Ridiculous carry-on to make a laugh of Givan like this and as was said above he should step down and tell them where to go. Maybe even join another party or run in future as an independent.0
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ArthurDayne wrote: »Right — so you don’t know any Irish speakers from the jurisdiction to which the Act relates. So your ability to “see through it” is what exactly? Clairvoyance or kinda just makey-uppy pretending to know what you’re talking about?
As for your friend from Donegal, I went to school in Newry — a staunchly Nationalist / Republican town. When I got my gold Fáinne I was proud as hell. Loved it. And yet despite being in this big Republican area, the Fáinne was never spun to me nor did I ever see it as anything to do with politics. I loved the language, loved the history of it, loved the old music, loved going up to the Gaeltacht — and I made lots of lifelong friends through those experiences. When I got off the school bus in the Loyalist town I lived just beside, I didn’t run around rubbing my Fáinne in anyone’s face nor did I go to bed at night beaming from ear to ear at how much I had “stuck it” to the Prods and contributed to the destruction of Ulster Protestantism. I enjoyed Irish because I enjoyed it — as do many others.
You have a wildly generalised view of northerners and you water them down to mere caricatures who are incapable of any thought or motivation that is any more nuanced than “Brits Out” or “No Surrender”. Your friend can associate the Fáinne with the IRA, the Viet Cong or Lord Voldemort for all I care — but why don’t you come back when you actually speak to Irish speakers and those interested in the Irish language in the actual place you seem to pose yourself as knowing so much about?
Irish died out in Northern Ireland as a native language during the 1970s and 1980s.
It was artificially revived thereafter.0 -
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Irish died out in Northern Ireland as a native language during the 1970s and 1980s.
It was artificially revived thereafter.
That's not necessarily unusual. More people in Wales can speak Welsh now than in the 1980s and 1990s - the same 'artificial' revival of the language took place.0 -
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Looks like Donaldson will be the next leader of the DUP. There doesn't seem to be a credible alternative. Givan will sure go as FM. Tremendous instability in the run up to marching season. Potts is most like politically dead. Apparently the manner of Foster's ousting plus the way the Givan nomination as FM was handled buried him.
Donaldson doesn't strike me as someone who has the capability or inclination to reach out to the nationalist population in NI so in that respect no different to Foster. I think Unionism is still in a state of shock at how Brexit has unfolded. They displayed monumental naivety and stupidity in hitching their wagon to Brexit just to be in line with the mainland. Their loyalty to the crown has not been rewarded. The Queen is nearing her end so her passing will further weaken their tie to the rest of the UK. Charles, understandably, doesn't command the same affection.
It will be anathema for Donaldson to do so but he needs to reposition his party to be a voice for Unionism in a United Ireland. I simply don't see any other outcome than a UI. It is the interest of Unionism to heal divisions and come together to be a reasoned voice for their voters.0 -
https://twitter.com/ArmaghPatrick/status/1406239330989973511
Sums up the Unionists position perfectly
It should be pointed out that the only realistic result of Brexit was either the UK following EU rules or a sea border and the DUP still campaigned for it. They are getting what they campaigned for at this point.
Though at the moment their requirements for leader seem to be edging towards never having heard a Catholic speak so we will see where it ends0 -
Do they not understand that if the likes of Jim Allister and Jamie Bryson and co get their way and collapse stormont, direct rule from Westminster will just legislate over their heads like with same sex marriage.
They have nothing to bargain with.0 -
Looks like Donaldson will be the next leader of the DUP. There doesn't seem to be a credible alternative. Givan will sure go as FM. Tremendous instability in the run up to marching season. Potts is most like politically dead. Apparently the manner of Foster's ousting plus the way the Givan nomination as FM was handled buried him.
Donaldson doesn't strike me as someone who has the capability or inclination to reach out to the nationalist population in NI so in that respect no different to Foster. I think Unionism is still in a state of shock at how Brexit has unfolded. They displayed monumental naivety and stupidity in hitching their wagon to Brexit just to be in line with the mainland. Their loyalty to the crown has not been rewarded. The Queen is nearing her end so her passing will further weaken their tie to the rest of the UK. Charles, understandably, doesn't command the same affection.
It will be anathema for Donaldson to do so but he needs to reposition his party to be a voice for Unionism in a United Ireland. I simply don't see any other outcome than a UI. It is the interest of Unionism to heal divisions and come together to be a reasoned voice for their voters.
At the same time I don't see Donaldson as a front for paramilitaries either, lad is a blow in from UUP, he's church of Ireland too which is distinct from more loony free Presbyterian Church that many DUP members seem to inhabit.
Actually would have thought it would have been Donaldson to cave on ILA and quickly be ousted by more hard-line Poots rather than other way around.
They have run out of road so it's going to be fascinating to see how Donaldson plays it. Serious pressure from some key "loyalist community leaders" Who basically tell a lot of uneducated working class folks how to vote.0 -
Irish died out in Northern Ireland as a native language during the 1970s and 1980s.
It was artificially revived thereafter.
Indeed, though I guess the immediate temptation here is to ask: so what?
The second temptation would probably be to point out that it is the very threatened nature of the language’s survival (whether as a native or otherwise spoken language) which spurs people to campaign for its protection — including through legislation.0 -
It is a sad reflection on the people of Ireland that many here who consider themselves as Irish would be happy to see the Irish language diminish.
I may not support all of what SF stands for but on this issue I am grateful that they are fighting to get this act inacted and hopefully help to revive the Irish language further in The north.
The crazy thing is that the more that Unionists push against these kind of things and try and keep a hard line. The more support a UI will gain within the Catholic community and people who consider themselves as Irish.
(For instance, People who dont want to lose the benefits of NI staying in the UK like having the NHS ect but would still like to hold onto an Irish identity.)0 -
Junkyard Tom wrote: »So what?
Because it is an incinsce use of the Irish language for purely political purposes and also another reason was to make it more difficult for the British to understand IRA men in the colloquially termed 'Jailtacht' where Gerry Adams learnt his Irish.
The problem Gerry Adams faces with Irish is that neither learnt it natively nor did he learn it through the education system. Also he has the problem of what many non-native speakers face with a language they go so far. Conversational at an OK level and they plateau. They are unable to move beyond this level.
If you study Irish to even a certain middle of the road level you can immediately spot those with wonderful flowing Irish v the chancers. They can't think in Irish and have to use Béarlachas which is similar to Franglais when people mix French and English. Pearse Doherty and Galway TD whose Mairead Farrell, have wonderful proper Irish for example. Gerry is middle of the road and Mary Lou is hanging on for dear life.
The real issue for me is not the Irish language Act, but why Ireland still has many who reach a certain level of Irish and stop. Or have none at all. In 100 years not much has changed on the island of Ireland in a practical sense regarding the Irish language both North and South. That is the truth of it. Grand you might have the odd Gaelscoil but that is basically preaching to the choir. There is a large gap in the middle that goes missing.
It is also how the phrase 'Tiocfaidh ár lá' was invented during the troubles its is grammatically incorrect Irish based on an English idiom.
No Irish Language Act will make Gerry Adams Irish improve. But you can't knock a fella for trying he gives it proper go. Unlike many of his colleagues in SF who have largely lived through a more peaceful time and should have more time on their hands to take more practical steps with the Irish language. Instead of merely focusing on symbolism which achieves little only antagonisation.
Republicans have been great 'doing their bit' for a UI having larger families to get closer to that magic majority figure. If they did so through Irish - maybe the act itself! Or sent their children to Irish language playshools and spoke Irish at home they would be in a much stronger position re the Irish Language Act.
But sadly this not the case, it is purely symbolic as is most things to do with NI.Guff about stuff, and stuff about guff.
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It will be interesting to see if Ian Óg will be collateral damage in all this.Much of the anger within the DUP is directed at Ian Paisley Jnr, who has made no secret of the fact that he was behind the move against Arlene Foster. In discussions with Sinn Féin in recent weeks, the DUP team was what some called "the triumvirate" - Edwin Poots, Paul Givan and Ian Paisley.
"Junior was pulling many of the strings," said a seasoned DUP stalwart.
"Many thought that during the leadership election campaign, and it became absolutely obvious afterwards. His fingerprints are all over what’s happened in recent weeks."
Ian Paisley Jr told reporters the Stormont Executive 'couldn't run a bath'
On Friday, unionist commentator Alex Kane pointedly tweeted: "21 days of believing he was in charge. 21 days of imagining himself as holding all the reins of power. 21 days of planning how to shape the party in his own image. I wonder how Ian Paisley Jnr is feeling right now."
Fascinating how it all went down.
https://www.rte.ie/news/analysis-and-comment/2021/0619/1229156-dup-leadership/0 -
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gormdubhgorm wrote: »Because it is an incinsce use of the Irish language for purely political purposes and also another reason was to make it more difficult for the British to understand IRA men in the colloquially termed 'Jailtacht' where Gerry Adams learnt his Irish.
The problem Gerry Adams faces with Irish is that neither learnt it natively nor did he learn it through the education system. Also he has the problem of what many non-native speakers face with a language they go so far. Conversational at an OK level and they plateau. They are unable to move beyond this level.
If you study Irish to even a certain middle of the road level you can immediately spot those with wonderful flowing Irish v the chancers. They can't think in Irish and have to use Béarlachas which is similar to Franglais when people mix French and English. Pearse Doherty and Galway TD whose Mairead Farrell, have wonderful proper Irish for example. Gerry is middle of the road and Mary Lou is hanging on for dear life.
The real issue for me is not the Irish language Act, but why Ireland still has many who reach a certain level of Irish and stop. Or have none at all. In 100 years not much has changed on the island of Ireland in a practical sense regarding the Irish language both North and South. That is the truth of it. Grand you might have the odd Gaelscoil but that is basically preaching to the choir. There is a large gap in the middle that goes missing.
It is also how the phrase 'Tiocfaidh ár lá' was invented during the troubles its is grammatically incorrect Irish based on an English idiom.
No Irish Language Act will make Gerry Adams Irish improve. But you can't knock a fella for trying he gives it proper go. Unlike many of his colleagues in SF who have largely lived through a more peaceful time and should have more time on their hands to take more practical steps with the Irish language. Instead of merely focusing on symbolism which achieves little only antagonisation.
Republicans have been great 'doing their bit' for a UI having larger families to get closer to that magic majority figure. If they did so through Irish - maybe the act itself! Or sent their children to Irish language playshools and spoke Irish at home they would be in a much stronger position re the Irish Language Act.
But sadly this not the case, it is purely symbolic as is most things to do with NI.
So now your problem is not the Irish language act but the fact that we down south didnt do well enough in our leaving cert Irish. Also people who only have a basic understanding of a language are not chancers
You also seem angry at Adams for not speaking better Irish because he had to learn in a country that doesnt learn it in school but your answer to that is to oppose learning it in school
And again no republican is obliged to be a fluent Irish language speaker but yet you think its a stick to beat them with0 -
I found an interesting clip of Poots rejecting the Irish Language Act back in 2005.
As Gerry Adams said in reply Poots gave some very spurious reasons for doing so. I thought Adams could have gone further but it was a weak retort on the hoof.
Poots did have some grains of truth in some of what he said though. Such as SF using broken Irish in Stormont only serving to antagonise etc. It is basically a piss take imo. Which serves no real purpose other than symbolism - they do the same in the Dail let's be honest.
Plus Poots pointed out 'political sensitivities' which is NI politics code for 'we want to do everything we can to look less Irish and more British - I am thinking of my electoral mandate'.
It is interesting that when Poots did a u-turn on the Irish Language Act it has cost him his job. If this results in a GE and the DUP are again voted in does this prove that the DUP have a mandate not to implement the Irish language Act?
SF are always very quick to go on about their mandate for self-justification what about the DUP's mandate?Guff about stuff, and stuff about guff.
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firemansam4 wrote: »I may not support all of what SF stands for but on this issue I am grateful that they are fighting to get this act inacted and hopefully help to revive the Irish language further in The north.
We tried to revive & elevate the Irish language by introducing it into our schools in the 1930s (post independence), we then gave it the status as our 1st official language, this even though English had long since taken over as the language of commerce and day to day communication.
Today English is still our chosen form of communication, it's still the language of commerce, while Irish is still officially our 1st language.
I wonder will Northern Ireland follow the same route nearly 100 years later?0 -
gormdubhgorm wrote: »Because it is an incinsce use of the Irish language for purely political purposes and also another reason was to make it more difficult for the British to understand IRA men in the colloquially termed 'Jailtacht' where Gerry Adams learnt his Irish.
The problem Gerry Adams faces with Irish is that neither learnt it natively nor did he learn it through the education system. Also he has the problem of what many non-native speakers face with a language they go so far. Conversational at an OK level and they plateau. They are unable to move beyond this level.
If you study Irish to even a certain middle of the road level you can immediately spot those with wonderful flowing Irish v the chancers. They can't think in Irish and have to use Béarlachas which is similar to Franglais when people mix French and English. Pearse Doherty and Galway TD whose Mairead Farrell, have wonderful proper Irish for example. Gerry is middle of the road and Mary Lou is hanging on for dear life.
The real issue for me is not the Irish language Act, but why Ireland still has many who reach a certain level of Irish and stop. Or have none at all. In 100 years not much has changed on the island of Ireland in a practical sense regarding the Irish language both North and South. That is the truth of it. Grand you might have the odd Gaelscoil but that is basically preaching to the choir. There is a large gap in the middle that goes missing.
It is also how the phrase 'Tiocfaidh ár lá' was invented during the troubles its is grammatically incorrect Irish based on an English idiom.
No Irish Language Act will make Gerry Adams Irish improve. But you can't knock a fella for trying he gives it proper go. Unlike many of his colleagues in SF who have largely lived through a more peaceful time and should have more time on their hands to take more practical steps with the Irish language. Instead of merely focusing on symbolism which achieves little only antagonisation.
Republicans have been great 'doing their bit' for a UI having larger families to get closer to that magic majority figure. If they did so through Irish - maybe the act itself! Or sent their children to Irish language playshools and spoke Irish at home they would be in a much stronger position re the Irish Language Act.
But sadly this not the case, it is purely symbolic as is most things to do with NI.
This long winded and confusing post is just so chock full of contradictions, that anyone reading it would be entirely accurate at concluding you either have no clue as to what it is you're even on about anymore, except you seem to have an issue with "republicans", because apart from that, you have no actual cohesive point.0 -
gormdubhgorm wrote: »Because it is an incinsce use of the Irish language for purely political purposes and also another reason was to make it more difficult for the British to understand IRA men in the colloquially termed 'Jailtacht' where Gerry Adams learnt his Irish.
The problem Gerry Adams faces with Irish is that neither learnt it natively nor did he learn it through the education system. Also he has the problem of what many non-native speakers face with a language they go so far. Conversational at an OK level and they plateau. They are unable to move beyond this level.
If you study Irish to even a certain middle of the road level you can immediately spot those with wonderful flowing Irish v the chancers. They can't think in Irish and have to use Béarlachas which is similar to Franglais when people mix French and English. Pearse Doherty and Galway TD whose Mairead Farrell, have wonderful proper Irish for example. Gerry is middle of the road and Mary Lou is hanging on for dear life.
The real issue for me is not the Irish language Act, but why Ireland still has many who reach a certain level of Irish and stop. Or have none at all. In 100 years not much has changed on the island of Ireland in a practical sense regarding the Irish language both North and South. That is the truth of it. Grand you might have the odd Gaelscoil but that is basically preaching to the choir. There is a large gap in the middle that goes missing.
It is also how the phrase 'Tiocfaidh ár lá' was invented during the troubles its is grammatically incorrect Irish based on an English idiom.
No Irish Language Act will make Gerry Adams Irish improve. But you can't knock a fella for trying he gives it proper go. Unlike many of his colleagues in SF who have largely lived through a more peaceful time and should have more time on their hands to take more practical steps with the Irish language. Instead of merely focusing on symbolism which achieves little only antagonisation.
Republicans have been great 'doing their bit' for a UI having larger families to get closer to that magic majority figure. If they did so through Irish - maybe the act itself! Or sent their children to Irish language playshools and spoke Irish at home they would be in a much stronger position re the Irish Language Act.
But sadly this not the case, it is purely symbolic as is most things to do with NI.
Are you a fluent/native speaker yourself?0 -
Deleted User wrote: »Are you a fluent/native speaker yourself?
Yeah, but they're the real fluent/native speaker, all others are only half baking it don't you know.
Isn't that clear from the obnoxiously condescending mannerism from within their posts?0 -
gormdubhgorm wrote: »I found an interesting clip of Poots rejecting the Irish Language Act back in 2005.
As Gerry Adams said in reply Poots gave some very spurious reasons for doing so. I thought Adams could have gone further but it was a weak retort on the hoof.
Poots did have some grains of truth in some of what he said though. Such as SF using broken Irish in Stormont only serving to antagonise etc. It is basically a piss take imo. Which serves no real purpose other than symbolism - they do the same in the Dail let's be honest.
Plus Poots pointed out 'political sensitivities' which is NI politics code for 'we want to do everything we can to look less Irish and more British - I am thinking of my electoral mandate'.
It is interesting that when Poots did a u-turn on the Irish Language Act it has cost him his job. If this results in a GE and the DUP are again voted in does this prove that the DUP have a mandate not to implement the Irish language Act?
SF are always very quick to go on about their mandate for self-justification what about the DUP's mandate?
He is talking nonsense. Edwin cares so much about the Irish language and the people who promote it that he is rejecting the bill for them. Ya sure he is0 -
gormdubhgorm wrote: »Because it is an incinsce use of the Irish language for purely political purposes and also another reason was to make it more difficult for the British to understand IRA men in the colloquially termed 'Jailtacht' where Gerry Adams learnt his Irish.
The problem Gerry Adams faces with Irish is that neither learnt it natively nor did he learn it through the education system. Also he has the problem of what many non-native speakers face with a language they go so far. Conversational at an OK level and they plateau. They are unable to move beyond this level.
If you study Irish to even a certain middle of the road level you can immediately spot those with wonderful flowing Irish v the chancers. They can't think in Irish and have to use Béarlachas which is similar to Franglais when people mix French and English. Pearse Doherty and Galway TD whose Mairead Farrell, have wonderful proper Irish for example. Gerry is middle of the road and Mary Lou is hanging on for dear life.
The real issue for me is not the Irish language Act, but why Ireland still has many who reach a certain level of Irish and stop. Or have none at all. In 100 years not much has changed on the island of Ireland in a practical sense regarding the Irish language both North and South. That is the truth of it. Grand you might have the odd Gaelscoil but that is basically preaching to the choir. There is a large gap in the middle that goes missing.
It is also how the phrase 'Tiocfaidh ár lá' was invented during the troubles its is grammatically incorrect Irish based on an English idiom.
No Irish Language Act will make Gerry Adams Irish improve. But you can't knock a fella for trying he gives it proper go. Unlike many of his colleagues in SF who have largely lived through a more peaceful time and should have more time on their hands to take more practical steps with the Irish language. Instead of merely focusing on symbolism which achieves little only antagonisation.
Republicans have been great 'doing their bit' for a UI having larger families to get closer to that magic majority figure. If they did so through Irish - maybe the act itself! Or sent their children to Irish language playshools and spoke Irish at home they would be in a much stronger position re the Irish Language Act.
But sadly this not the case, it is purely symbolic as is most things to do with NI.
Would it kill you, in any of your posts, to actually draw some sort of coherent conclusion?
What is it you actually want? That the Irish Language Act shouldn’t be enacted because SF support it and therefore it’s all political? Of course, this must mean that Alliance, the SDLP, the British government (who have already legislated for minority and threatened domestic languages like Scottish Gaelic) are all driven by devotion to Republican symbolism right?
Your posts are just tangents which never actually offer any rational, reasoned, coherent thought — it’s just all a free association of your own little buzz phrases which you just repeat over and over again.0 -
breezy1985 wrote: »So now your problem is not the Irish language act but the fact that we down south didnt do well enough in our leaving cert Irish. Also people who only have a basic understanding of a language are not chancers
You also seem angry at Adams for not speaking better Irish because he had to learn in a country that doesnt learn it in school but your answer to that is to oppose learning it in school
And again no republican is obliged to be a fluent Irish language speaker but yet you think its a stick to beat them with
My problem is the Irish language Act achieves nothing in itself it annoys me.
There is nothing practical about it.
I actually admire Adams giving Irish a go which is more than lot of Republicans or even regular Irish citizens do. But it also annoys me that Republican's have hijacked the Irish language as political symbol but many do not either speak it at all or speak it in their day to day lives. It is the height of hypocrisy a language is there to be spoken not being abused/kicked around as some sort of symbol/game.
Anyone can start learning Irish or improving their Irish tomorrow. But it is much easier to have the pretence of an Irish Language Act for people to focus on symbolism rather than actually do the practical stuff.
Yes the DUP should not have reneged on the promise to implement the Irish Language Act. But if they receive a mandate after a GE following this it will say there is a proportion in NI who do not want it.
Yes, in an ideal world it would be nice if all sides of the divide did not feel threatened by the Irish Language, nor use it as a flag waving exercise.
People like Linda Ervine UUP - are few and far between in NI. Fair play to the woman she speaks the Irish language just as a language and does not attach political hooks/agendas to it. If more had her attitude NI would be the better for it.
Unfortunately many such as SF (how many use it in day to day lives? - using Irish as a merely a symbol) and the DUP (Anti-Irish for the sake of it) both have a really insincere approach to the Irish Language it is never simply about the language itself. And does nothing really to help it in practical terms 100% for symbolism though because that is all it is.Guff about stuff, and stuff about guff.
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Yeah, but they're the real fluent/native speaker, all others are only half baking it don't you know.
Isn't that clear from the obnoxiously condescending mannerism from within their posts?
I have a sneaking suspicion that the poster in question doesn't speak Irish at all - hence the question...0
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