Landlord wants to raise rent for non tenant

MarkY91

Hi all,

I sleep over in my girlfriends place at weekends. She moved into a new place and after just 1 weekend, the landlord thinks I live there and wants to include me in the rent agreement. It's a big house with 6 separated 1 bedroom apartments.

Does she have any right to tell a tenant that someone can't have a sleepover once or twice per week?

What reply should she give to the landlord? Well it's the estate agency talking on the landlords behalf actually.

El Tarangu

Tell her to write and ask for a rent reduction based on the number of nights she sleeps at your place.

FishOnABike

I presume she is still only renting one apartment. Why should the rent change?

If she has a lease / rental agreement and it doesn't explicitly exclude having guests what basis is there for asking for any increase or including you on the rental agreement?

MarkY91

She explained to the agency that I just stay over on the weekend. She seems to be ok with this. I just don't understand why she thought I live there (landlord doesn't live on the premises). Feels a bit sneaky as if she has a tenant who is a friend keeping check on everyone.

The only interaction I had with someone was saying hello when an oul fella was smoking at the front door... Who was waiting to bring a lady friend in..

Stark

You need the landlord's consent to sublet the apartment. Where the line is drawn between regular visitor and sub-leaser, I'm not certain. Good to hear you got it sorted out anyway.

dennyk

Stark wrote: »

You need the landlord's consent to sublet the apartment. Where the line is drawn between regular visitor and sub-leaser, I'm not certain. Good to hear you got it sorted out anyway.

Subletting means moving out of the accommodation yourself and letting it out to another tenant. You're thinking of a licensee, and the landlord has no statutory right to deny permission for a tenant to take on a licensee unless there's a clause governing it in the lease agreement (and it's possible such a clause might not be permissible; not sure if that's ever been challenged in court). Nor does the landlord have any right to increase the rent on a tenancy because a licensee was added, even if such a clause is in the lease agreement, because that clause would contravene the laws regarding rent reviews and would most likely be void. Under the law (Residential Tenancies Act 2004, Section 16, Subsection (n)), the tenant is only required to provide the name of any such licensees to the landlord.

Subletting (the primary tenant vacating their rented property and letting it to another subtenant, who pays their rent to the primary tenant while the primary tenant remains the actual tenant of the landlord) and assignment (the primary tenant moving out and signing over their lease to a new tenant, who then becomes the tenant of the landlord) are different matters; those do require the permission of the landlord and the landlord is free to refuse such a request (though doing so does mean the tenant can break any fixed-term lease they might be under without penalty).

JoChervil

MarkY91 wrote: »

Hi all,

I sleep over in my girlfriends place at weekends. She moved into a new place and after just 1 weekend, the landlord thinks I live there and wants to include me in the rent agreement. It's a big house with 6 separated 1 bedroom apartments.

Does she have any right to tell a tenant that someone can't have a sleepover once or twice per week?

What reply should she give to the landlord? Well it's the estate agency talking on the landlords behalf actually.

If it is really separate 1 bedroom apartment with separate lease, so landlord can't do it.

But I doubt it. I think your girlfriend just share a house and have an ensuite bedroom. It means a kitchen and a living area are shared. And having additional person there every weekend may annoy other tenants.

But if she is in your place as much time as you are in her place, so it should be no problem then. But because it is, so I think you want to be there all weekends, so it would be only right to pay for your stay there.

the_syco

MarkY91 wrote: »

I sleep over in my girlfriends place at weekends. She moved into a new place and after just 1 weekend, the landlord thinks I live there and wants to include me in the rent agreement. It's a big house with 6 separated 1 bedroom apartments.

There's a scam that people pull, whereby one partner gets the apartment, and then the other partner moves in "on the sly". Sounds like the LL suspects this.

MarkY91

JoChervil wrote: »

If it is really separate 1 bedroom apartment with separate lease, so landlord can't do it.

But I doubt it. I think your girlfriend just share a house and have an ensuite bedroom. It means a kitchen and a living area are shared. And having additional person there every weekend may annoy other tenants.

But if she is in your place as much time as you are in her place, so it should be no problem then. But because it is, so I think you want to be there all weekends, so it would be only right to pay for your stay there.

That's right but she has her own kitchen area in her space. I've not and never will be in the main kitchen. I have no reason to be there.

MarkY91

the_syco wrote: »

There's a scam that people pull, whereby one partner gets the apartment, and then the other partner moves in "on the sly". Sounds like the LL suspects this.

Mayev that's it. I never even knew that rent would be higher if I actually did live there with her. It seems a bit mad tbh. Imagine a hotel charging more because there's 2 guests instead of 1.

Just to be clear.. I'm definitely not living there. Just sleeping over to spend time together.

shanec1928

MarkY91 wrote: »

Imagine a hotel charging more because there's 2 guests instead of 1..

but they do single or double occupancy.

Mrs OBumble

MarkY91 wrote: »

Mayev that's it. I never even knew that rent would be higher if I actually did live there with her. It seems a bit mad tbh. Imagine a hotel charging more because there's 2 guests instead of 1.

Double the people, double the wear-and-tear.


This weekend, both of you stay at yours. Continue to take turns. I suspect you'll find lots of happiness if you do that.

nibtrix

MarkY91 wrote: »

Mayev that's it. I never even knew that rent would be higher if I actually did live there with her. It seems a bit mad tbh. Imagine a hotel charging more because there's 2 guests instead of 1.

Just to be clear.. I'm definitely not living there. Just sleeping over to spend time together.

Hotels often charge more for two guests rather than one.

Are you using any shared facilities, like a bathroom or common spaces? If any of the bills are shared between tenants (heat, electricity, bins) and you are using them then I would expect your girlfriends share of the bills would need to be higher. An occasional overnight guest won’t change anything but if you were going to be there 2 nights out of every 7 then I would be annoyed if you didn’t contribute, if I was one of the other tenants.

If you use zero shared spaces and your girlfriend has all bills in her own name separate from the rest of the house then it shouldn’t matter.

MarkY91

nibtrix wrote: »

Hotels often charge more for two guests rather than one.

Are you using any shared facilities, like a bathroom or common spaces? If any of the bills are shared between tenants (heat, electricity, bins) and you are using them then I would expect your girlfriends share of the bills would need to be higher. An occasional overnight guest won’t change anything but if you were going to be there 2 nights out of every 7 then I would be annoyed if you didn’t contribute, if I was one of the other tenants.

If you use zero shared spaces and your girlfriend has all bills in her own name separate from the rest of the house then it shouldn’t matter.

Yeah she has all facilities in her living space vans there's no shared bills. Basically 6 different living spaces in one building with a kitchen for people to use the washing machine (which has a coin slot to pay to use).

JoChervil

MarkY91 wrote: »

Yeah she has all facilities in her living space vans there's no shared bills. Basically 6 different living spaces in one building with a kitchen for people to use the washing machine (which has a coin slot to pay to use).

Frankly, it's hard to believe. Or landlord is bending rules. How so many kitchens are allowed in a one house. It is against fire regulations. People can't even do kitchen in their own house upstairs because of it, so how he/she managed to do it?

nibtrix

Sound like six studio apartments in a big Georgian house or something. Most of them disappeared when the regulations changed a few years back, but technically they can still exist so long as they meet the (fairly strenuous) requirements.

If that is the case, then unless the lease specifically prohibits overnight guests then I can’t see anything wrong with what the OP’s girlfriend is doing.

endofrainbow

Maybe the others don't want 'non tenants' visiting during the pandemic?

irish_goat

How long are you there at the weekend? Weekend could mean Friday from 5pm until Monday at 8am just. That's a long time.

MarkY91

nibtrix wrote: »

Sound like six studio apartments in a big Georgian house or something. Most of them disappeared when the regulations changed a few years back, but technically they can still exist so long as they meet the (fairly strenuous) requirements.

If that is the case, then unless the lease specifically prohibits overnight guests then I can’t see anything wrong with what the OP’s girlfriend is doing.

Yeah that's it. Very similar to her previous place too.

Torcaill

Move in and make an honest woman out of her

Ubbquittious

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Double the people, double the wear-and-tear.


This weekend, both of you stay at yours. Continue to take turns. I suspect you'll find lots of happiness if you do that.

A load of nonsense really. Most wear and tear on buildings is caused by nature itself. Just watch how an empty gaff deteriorates vs one that has someone in it.


But of course no need for me to tell you that, you'll try and perpetuate the myth anyway as you're in the landlording game yourself and you like fleecing people less fortunate than yourself

dennyk

Ubbquittious wrote: »

A load of nonsense really. Most wear and tear on buildings is caused by nature itself. Just watch how an empty gaff deteriorates vs one that has someone in it.

Look, can't you see that if a tenant is doing anything while they're actually present in their combination sitting/dining/kitchen/bedroom/toilet room except standing perfectly still in a different spot on the floor each day in order to minimise wear and tear on the flooring and furnishings, they're basically robbing money right out of the landlord's pocket, no different than some scumbag bashing you on the street to take your wallet or purse, sure enough. Can you believe the cheek of some of these tenants, not only sitting, or worse, lying on those valuable furnishings that the poor landlord had to spend entire minutes of their precious time dragging out of someone's skip, but even inviting someone else over to sit or lie on them at the same time! Shocking! :eek: