French generals cause backlash with 'civil war' warning

Manic Moran

After having worked with the French Army in Afghanistan, and most recently this month in the US (to the point that I asked the French division commander to honor me by pinning on my new rank, which he did), I would make two observations.

1) The average French soldier will fight, and fight hard. They may be let down by their leadership from time to time (Grassylawn's WW2 summary requires many, many asterisks on it), but do not mistake that for incompetence at arms, or a lack of courage. This is reinforced over centuries of warfare.

2) The French military's operations may not attract the same level of attention as what the US gets up to, but when they go somewhere, they don't muck around. My personal favourite was when they paid a ransom to Somali pirates, then sent special forces in to get the money back after the hostages were released.

Silentcorner

Silentcorner wrote: »

The EU is in for an interesting ten years....

Not sure it can withstand another period of massive upheaval.

suicide_circus

https://www.defensenews.com/global/europe/2020/03/10/heres-whats-behind-frances-72-jump-in-weapons-exports/

listermint

Stihl waters wrote: »

Classic mind your own business shìte talk, keep the simpletons occupied with the premier league or coronation street and other inane day to day stuff while the house burns down around you, good of you to bring up Hitler, it shows the level of debate your capable of

Ha ha , this excellent. Level of debate. It's the who's who's of otherism in this thread. I know the type I've worked with them in the past. Bastion of debates they are not .

Oh and the classic line of I've done my research is usually deployed soon into being found out .

Danzy

After the Bataclan massacre France was a tinder box.

A lot of French people are not ones to turn the cheek for too long.

It's only a matter of time before France suffers a large attack, something very brutal, that leaves hundreds or thousands dead. Maybe a School attacked.

The modern left approach to blame the victim, come up with excuses won't be tolerated then.

The Generals are trying to have society accept that there is a problem.

The backlash from self declared progressives will be stark.

tara2k

tara2k wrote: »

Not sure it can withstand another period of massive upheaval.

It might fracture a bit, by losing the Mediterranean countries, but there's no real loss there considering the poor state of their economies, and levels of corruption among officials. The remainder of Europe understands that the EU is the best hope for competing with the US or China on the international stage, either politically or economically. People might talk big about going it alone, but it's just silly talk, lacking any appreciation for where/what the world has developed into.

Nah. The EU will survive.. and hopefully, evolve to the extent that it leaves behind some of its more idiotic/short-sighted policies.

suicide_circus

Danzy wrote: »

After the Bataclan massacre France was a tinder box.

Bataclan and charlie hebdo were never really "dealt with".

listermint

Danzy wrote: »

After the Bataclan massacre France was a tinder box.

A lot of French people are not ones to turn the cheek for too long.

It's only a matter of time before France suffers a large attack, something very brutal, that leaves hundreds or thousands dead. Maybe a School attacked.

The modern left approach to blame the victim, come up with excuses won't be tolerated then.

The Generals are trying to have society accept that there is a problem.

The backlash from self declared progressives will be stark.

This sort of post is the delicious irony of doing and falling right into Islamic terrorisms wish. To root out the majority swathes of moderately religious folks in Islam and cause a huge divide in culture and countries. And there are those with agree with them on the other side.

When you cut out all the **** it's actually two sides of the same arse and everyone else stuck in the crack in the middle just living and existing.

Danzy

Something like 700k French soldiers were considered mutilated to lost limbs, about 3 million were wounded. 1.35mn military dead.

About 7% of all French men died in ww1, the figures in those between 18 and 30 must have been truly brutal.

Look at the American obsession with Vietnam and how it still influences their policy.

They lost 50k soldiers, from a population about 5 times bigger than ww1 France.

That was a bad few days in a 4 year war in French terms.

kowloon

Manic Moran wrote: »

After having worked with the French Army in Afghanistan, and most recently this month in the US (to the point that I asked the French division commander to honor me by pinning on my new rank, which he did), I would make two observations.

Congrats manic.

Danzy

listermint wrote: »

This sort of post is the delicious irony of doing and falling right into Islamic terrorisms wish. To root out the majority swathes of moderately religious folks in Islam and cause a huge divide in culture and countries. And there are those with agree with them on the other side.

When you cut out all the **** it's actually two sides of the same arse and everyone else stuck in the crack in the middle just living and existing.

No doubt Isis want to foster division, they refer to it as removing grey areas,ie create clear divisions.

Turning a blind eye isn't an option either.

What Western society could do is close Mosques were extremist doctrine is preached. Close Mosques were those who support the killing of gays, Jews etc are leading figures and voices of authority.

Could you imagine the reaction here if that happened. Clonskeagh would be gone, at least half the Mosques in Britain would be boarded up.

The French Generals make that point, the progressive Priests by marking certain topics as sinful for discussion are letting a very serious problem build.

Danzy

Deleted User wrote: »

It might fracture a bit, by losing the Mediterranean countries, but there's no real loss there considering the poor state of their economies, and levels of corruption among officials. The remainder of Europe understands that the EU is the best hope for competing with the US or China on the international stage, either politically or economically. People might talk big about going it alone, but it's just silly talk, lacking any appreciation for where/what the world has developed into.

Nah. The EU will survive.. and hopefully, evolve to the extent that it leaves behind some of its more idiotic/short-sighted policies.

Losing the Med economies means that the Euro soars in value. That will have a big impact on our economy and ability to trade.

It's impact on Germany would risk returning it to the Sick man of Europe.

rossie1977

Danzy wrote: »

After the Bataclan massacre France was a tinder box.

A lot of French people are not ones to turn the cheek for too long.

It's only a matter of time before France suffers a large attack, something very brutal, that leaves hundreds or thousands dead. Maybe a School attacked.

The modern left approach to blame the victim, come up with excuses won't be tolerated then.

The Generals are trying to have society accept that there is a problem.

The backlash from self declared progressives will be stark.

Hundreds of thousands dead...are you expecting someone to detonate a nuclear weapon in middle of Paris?

France can easily deal with problem and stop all the imperialism. They have finger in every pie in North Africa and further afield.

RulesOfNature

[Deleted User] wrote: »

The French government has threatened to punish active soldiers who signed an open letter by 25 retired generals warning President Emmanuel Macron the country is headed for "civil war".

https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20210427-french-generals-cause-backlash-with-civil-war-warning

The soldiers are correct. They let in muslims from undeveloped countries that are dogmatic in their faith. It is not racist to point out that muslims have a monopoly on these violent terror attacks. I fear one day that it happens to Ireland.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_terrorist_incidents_in_France

This is unacceptable. The French government needs to be replaced.

DerekC16

Interesting times ahead. If it happens in France it will ignite in other countries also. Germany, Spain..

I hope the traitorous politicians that done harm to these countries are worried, they should be. No doubt theyll be first to go.

coinop

RulesOfNature wrote: »

It is not racist to point out that Muslims have a monopoly on these violent terror attacks. I fear one day that it happens to Ireland.

Already has amigo. The Dundalk terrorist attacks of Jan 2018. The quote from the Japanese victim's sister will break your heart.

Following the verdict, the deceased’s older sister Shiori Sasaki in a written statement said she cannot understand “why a mentally unstable foreign national, whose origin was unknown, was allowed to be in the town.”

She said the killer Mohamed Morei (21) had his rights protected but her brother Yosuke Sasaki was deprived of his human rights. “It is truly infuriating and will forever be unforgivable,” Ms Sasaki said.

What a pretty picture the incident paints of modern, progressive Ireland. Mad Arabs stabbing Japanese to death in Dundalk. Pearse must be spinning in his grave.

I read the letter. There are many good points.
The first discrimination pointed out is basically the importation of Critical Race theory to France. It is most definitely a new form of racism designed to stir up divisions. Segregation is becoming normal in parts of the US, eg college campuses. Why would the French want to embrace ideologically driven division among different races living long and well alongside each other.
The second discrimination refers to the imposition of dogmas in parts of France which are not congenial with the secular Republic. This is happening in parts. Shariah courts. Child marriage. FGM. Children being educated in religious schools which do not have proper curricula. Women and girls banned from cafes or even streets in certain areas. These are not compatible modes of living in a modern European country.
The third discrimination appears to be support of the yellow jackets right to publicly protest their despair without the police and military being used against them as an authoritarian force. I agree with that. Also agree that such protest groups are often infiltrated to stir up violent activities among people who wish to peacefully albeit robustly protest.

Also the beheaded teacher is but one example of the random religious extremist violence happening in France.

I don't expect a coup or anything. The modern news spin cycle swallows most things fast. It is interesting though that the expression of concern is publicly and strongly made. A sort of Theses posted upon a door in modern times.

Mules

After all the terrorism in France, it's not surprising that people are seething. A friend of mine who is in to horses was talking about going to a horse show there a couple of years ago. They had metal detectors and soldiers guarding the event.. All the tourist attractions in Paris are surrounded by soldiers with machine guns.

It is very disturbing that a school teacher is beheaded in the street and a priest and parishioners are murdered in French churches in 21st century France. Successive governments fecked up by letting it get this far.

AdrianBalboa

Manic Moran wrote: »

After having worked with the French Army in Afghanistan, and most recently this month in the US (to the point that I asked the French division commander to honor me by pinning on my new rank, which he did), I would make two observations.

1) The average French soldier will fight, and fight hard. They may be let down by their leadership from time to time (Grassylawn's WW2 summary requires many, many asterisks on it), but do not mistake that for incompetence at arms, or a lack of courage. This is reinforced over centuries of warfare.

2) The French military's operations may not attract the same level of attention as what the US gets up to, but when they go somewhere, they don't muck around. My personal favourite was when they paid a ransom to Somali pirates, then sent special forces in to get the money back after the hostages were released.

I really hope the fetishisation of military imperialists doesn't creep into Irish society like it has in the US.

AmyMurphy22

Danzy wrote: »

It's only a matter of time before France suffers a large attack, something very brutal, that leaves hundreds or thousands dead. Maybe a School attacked.

rossie1977 wrote: »

Hundreds of thousands dead...are you expecting someone to detonate a nuclear weapon in middle of Paris?

France can easily deal with problem and stop all the imperialism. They have finger in every pie in North Africa and further afield.

The poster said "hundreds OR thousands" not "hundreds OF thousands". So you've truly embarrassed yourself with that retort.

EddieN75

In 2016 during Bastille Day celebrations a terrorist drive a 19 ton truck down a pedestrian street killing 87 people and injuring 458 others.

He drove at speeds up to 90 kmh in a zig zag pattern to hit as many people as possible.

2 days after the attack 52 people were still in hospital including 18 on life support.
14 of the dead were children


If this had happened in Ireland people might not be so dismissive as to what might or might not be happening in French society

ek motor

suicide_circus wrote: »

Bataclan and charlie hebdo were never really "dealt with".

There's only so much bottling up a society can do before it explodes. Much of western Europe is on the same trajectory.

listermint

You are multitudes of likely to be killed on a bicycle simply cycling into town than a terrorist attack both here and in France. I don't hear you lads talking about banning cars from the roads and their drivers.

TomTomTim

I watched the 2019 Les Misérables over the weekend and you really have to wonder what the message behind the movie is, as in what it really is. I think the directors intent was to show the hardships of minorities in ghettos and police brutality, but there's another message there which the director likely didn't intend. That being, that none of this is working, the cultural clashes will never fix themselves, that the them v us is ripping French society apart, and that multiculturalism generally is a failed project. This is also where another conflict lies, the conflict between those who've accepted the failure, and those who won't admit said failure. How does society move forward when both camps are on two completely different planes?

ek motor

TomTomTim wrote: »

I watched the 2019 Les Misérables over the weekend and you really have to wonder what the message behind the movie is, as in what it really is. I think the directors intent was to show the hardships of minorities in ghettos and police brutality, but there's another message there which the director likely didn't intend. That being, that none of this is working, the cultural clashes will never fix themselves, that the them v us is ripping French society apart, and that multiculturalism generally is a failed project. This is also where another conflict lies, the conflict between those who've accepted the failure, and those who won't admit said failure. How does society move forward when both camps are on two completely different planes?

Society will continue to divide ever more sharply to the point of violent conflict in 10, 20, or 50 years time , in my opinion.

listermint

TomTomTim wrote: »

I watched the 2019 Les Misérables over the weekend and you really have to wonder what the message behind the movie is, as in what it really is. I think the directors intent was to show the hardships of minorities in ghettos and police brutality, but there's another message there which the director likely didn't intend. That being, that none of this is working, the cultural clashes will never fix themselves, that the them v us is ripping French society apart, and that multiculturalism generally is a failed project. This is also where another conflict lies, the conflict between those who've accepted the failure, and those who won't admit said failure. How does society move forward when both camps are on two completely different planes?

It's always amusing when people use the extremes of a culture to demonstrate how the wider culture is in your view.

Would you say Ronan mullins is an example of the average Irish person. Since you know everyone of a certain religious or ethnic background is generally the same.

listermint

listermint wrote: »

You are multitudes of likely to be killed on a bicycle simply cycling into town than a terrorist attack both here and in France. I don't hear you lads talking about banning cars from the roads and their drivers.

I’m no fan of the tone of this thread, but these comparisons are always ridiculous. Cycling somewhere is a choice you make - getting blown up by a terrorist isn’t.

‘Did ya know you’re 36 times more likely to be eaten by a flock of crows than you are to win the Euromillions’?

listermint

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I’m no fan of the tone of this thread, but these comparisons are always ridiculous. Cycling somewhere is a choice you make - getting blown up by a terrorist isn’t.

‘Did ya know you’re 36 times more likely to be eaten by a flock of crows than you are to win the Euromillions’?

It's the fear of either I'm making the distinction of. It's pure hyperbole deployed where people wouldn't give a thought about crossing the street with traffic on it.

These are not real life worries for you. So why are you going around demonising an entire demographic. I'd wager most of the folks doing the demonising have never met or worked with anyone of another faith let alone travelled to the countries they are giving out about..

Loss of humanity towards others should be more of a talking point here.

Cluedo Monopoly

French generals have always been drama queens.

Beechwoodspark

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

France is in a huge mess

It’s sad that people who “call it out” are criticised

It’s in a better state given that criticism of Americanised cant like critical race theory is common there.