French generals cause backlash with 'civil war' warning

MoonUnit75

listermint wrote: »

You are multitudes of likely to be killed on a bicycle simply cycling into town than a terrorist attack both here and in France. I don't hear you lads talking about banning cars from the roads and their drivers.

Ridiculous argument, if there was a general undercurrent of 'don't talk badly about bicycles and you may not get killed by one. We need to be careful what we say and do around bicycles now. They only kill randomly if they are provoked or if they have been radicalised in the no-go bicycle areas. It's only some renegade bicycles, once they kill you we will be able to identify that this bicycle needs to be taken out of circulation.' It's about your own culture and tradition of secularism being suppressed to accommodate people who hate you.

If there was a make of car or bicycle killing people systematically they would be 'recalled' to the factory.

listermint

[Deleted User] wrote: »

It’s in a better state given that criticism of Americanised cant like critical race theory is common there.

Critic race theory. You've already fallen into the trap buddy.

RobbingBandit

Age of Unenlightenment

listermint

listermint wrote: »

It's the fear of either I'm making the distinction of. It's pure hyperbole deployed where people wouldn't give a thought about crossing the street with traffic on it.

These are not real life worries for you. So why are you going around demonising an entire demographic. I'd wager most of the folks doing the demonising have never met or worked with anyone of another faith let alone travelled to the countries they are giving out about..

Loss of humanity towards others should be more of a talking point here.

Surely terrorism is a real life worry for everybody. The whole crossing the road argument is spurious - would you dismiss black American’s fears of cop violence by saying that crossing the road is a bigger problem?

Minorities need to be treated well, but European countries have a right to decide who can enter their country, and who can’t. We need to decouple from the US or we are toast.

listermint

listermint wrote: »

Critic race theory. You've already fallen into the trap buddy.

What trap? It exists. It is taught in American schools. The generals in the French letter mentioned it. It’s commonly talked about in France in fact.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Critical_race_theory

Chips Lovell

TomTomTim wrote: »

That being, that none of this is working, the cultural clashes will never fix themselves, that the them v us is ripping French society apart, and that multiculturalism generally is a failed project.

France has, for over a century, been aggressively monocultural. There is very definite idea of what being French is and no matter what race or religion you are you're expected to like it or lump it.

listermint

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Surely terrorism is a real life worry for everybody. The whole crossing the road argument is spurious - would you dismiss black American’s fears of cop violence by saying that crossing the road is a bigger problem?

Minorities need to be treated well, but European countries have a right to decide who can enter their country, and who can’t. We need to decouple from the US or we are toast.

It's as much a real life worry as being killed by a drink driver. So no it's not nor is the argument spurious. You and others like you are drinking the soup of over fear versus actual fear.

Cop violence for a minority in the US is a daily occurance the data shows that's an actual fear you should have with interactions with law enforcement versus say an interaction you might have as an Irish person with an actual Muslim person. It's actually incredibly odd you can't see that . Pure odd. I can only assume your echoing yourself in forums and threads filled with self fulfilling outrage.

Stats don't back up your arguement in the slightest

listermint

[Deleted User] wrote: »

What trap? It exists. It is taught in American schools. The generals in the French letter mentioned it. It’s commonly talked about in France in fact.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Critical_race_theory

I don't care what a bunch of jar heads in France thought or think frankly because their letter spouts the same level of nonsense perpetrated here by various posters. Posters with no real life experiences to share and base their concerns on stuff they picked up from the internet.

timmyntc

listermint wrote: »

I don't care what a bunch of jar heads in France thought or think frankly because their letter spouts the same level of nonsense perpetrated here by various posters. Posters with no real life experiences to share and base their concerns on stuff they picked up from the internet.

Do you have any evidence to discredit the content of the letter?

Or is it a case where listermints opinion is truth because it came from listermint?

mcko

Hope they teach history at Saint Cyr as it didnt end well for the generals in the 1960s.

listermint

listermint wrote: »

It's as much a real life worry as being killed by a drink driver. So no it's not nor is the argument spurious. You and others like you are drinking the soup of over fear versus actual fear.

I think about 330 people have died in the last few decades in Europe. Nevertheless I wouldn’t demonise islam for that as a whole, government policy should try and make sure immigration is culturally compatible.

Cop violence for a minority in the US is a daily occurance the data shows that's an actual fear you should have with interactions with law enforcement versus say an interaction you might have as an Irish person with an actual Muslim person. It's actually incredibly odd you can't see that . Pure odd. I can only assume your echoing yourself in forums and threads filled with self fulfilling outrage.

The number of deaths is 13 unarmed or so per year. Which is 13 too many. You can play with “more fear of crossing the road” with most things. More people were killed in road traffic accidents during the troubles in Ireland than the violence.

Edit: It was 8 in 2019

https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2020/06/23/fact-check-how-many-unarmed-black-men-did-police-kill-2019/5322455002/

MoonUnit75

listermint wrote: »

It's as much a real life worry as being killed by a drink driver. So no it's not nor is the argument spurious. You and others like you are drinking the soup of over fear versus actual fear.

Cop violence for a minority in the US is a daily occurance the data shows that's an actual fear you should have with interactions with law enforcement versus say an interaction you might have as an Irish person with an actual Muslim person. It's actually incredibly odd you can't see that . Pure odd. I can only assume your echoing yourself in forums and threads filled with self fulfilling outrage.

Stats don't back up your arguement in the slightest

Don't they arrest people for driving while drunk, whether or not they cause injury to themselves or others? Are they arresting people for going around radicalised?

listermint

listermint wrote: »

I don't care what a bunch of jar heads in France thought or think frankly because their letter spouts the same level of nonsense perpetrated here by various posters. Posters with no real life experiences to share and base their concerns on stuff they picked up from the internet.

So basically you don’t want to believe what’s true. Insane.

listermint

timmyntc wrote: »

Do you have any evidence to discredit the content of the letter?

Or is it a case where listermints opinion is truth because it came from listermint?

My only evidence is that I treat other people with humanity. If they want to practice a faith with their own family and go to church etc it's up to them knock yourself out. Who's business is it of mine or yours frankly .

The state as France is should be secular and free from religion in state activities.

And those general's have no business sticking their noses into politics and making their own nonsense the truth. They should have every part of military law thrown at them.

Now il ask you . What specifically are you afraid of who's coming to your door . What impact on your life is there for you to get so hot headed about this

ek motor

timmyntc wrote: »

Do you have any evidence to discredit the content of the letter?

Or is it a case where listermints opinion is truth because it came from listermint?

Judging by the level of sneering arrogance in this person's posts , I would suggest the latter

timmyntc

listermint wrote: »

My only evidence is that I treat other people with humanity.

So you have no evidence then - just a vague feeling of moral superiority. Nice.

listermint wrote: »

The state as France is should be secular and free from religion in state activities.

Corrrect - French schools should be free from religion, no French areas should operate under sharia law - religious practices like FGM should not be allowed happen. Sounds like you're in agreement with these 'jarheads'

WrenBoy

listermint wrote: »

My only evidence is that I treat other people with humanity. If they want to practice a faith with their own family and go to church etc it's up to them knock yourself out. Who's business is it of mine or yours frankly .

The state as France is should be secular and free from religion in state activities.

And those general's have no business sticking their noses into politics and making their own nonsense the truth. They should have every part of military law thrown at them.

Now il ask you . What specifically are you afraid of who's coming to your door . What impact on your life is there for you to get so hot headed about this

You do understand that attacks on french people and the forcing of segregation onto the french populace by religious adherents goes beyond religious freedom yes ?

listermint

timmyntc wrote: »

So you have no evidence then - just a vague feeling of moral superiority. Nice.




Corrrect - French schools should be free from religion, no French areas should operate under sharia law - religious practices like FGM should not be allowed happen. Sounds like you're in agreement with these 'jarheads'

You've picked one aspect of their gripe and ran with it


Also you have an above average level of fear that I might suggest you look at. This alternative reality where so called Sharia law is taking over your neighborhood and you are going to be converted or killed is not real buddy.

This isn't real life. Go experience life, you might find other people of different faiths have the same daily grind worries as you. You know people stuff family stuff.

listermint

WrenBoy wrote: »

You do understand that attacks on french people and the forcing of segregation onto the french populace by religious adherents goes beyond religious freedom yes ?

Lol fine example of amplification of hyperbole

mariaalice

France is a very militaristic society and at times could have gone like Spain and become a military dictatorship, except with Spain it was fear of communist now its fear of something else.

Its always a fear that something else or something alien is going to collapse society as they know it and they are going to step in and save it.


No sense of history which seems rather odd from a bunch of generals or as Barry Cowan said about the reaction to the Spanish Catalan separatist..you don't have to dig far to find the fascist roots.

fvp4

fvp4 wrote: »

I think about 330 people have died in the last few decades in Europe. Nevertheless I wouldn’t demonise islam for that as a whole, government policy should try and make sure immigration is culturally compatible.

The real issue for France is not the deaths caused by Islamic terrorists. That's just the current spur to face the problems facing their society. The real issue is the influence of Islamic populations within their territory.

There are plenty of videos on Youtube about this so I won't bother posting any here. It's the taking over of suburbs by populations which are not Western, forcing the acceptance of foreign modes of behavior and standards. It's the French women who are afraid to walk around the streets due to harassment, or taking over of areas, where most people don't speak French, don't behave as French people would, and pressure others to follow suit.

That's the main concern for French people, and the government. And while the government should be seeking whatever means of integrating foreign cultures into French, they've failed consistently over time. This isn't a new thing. Even without the consideration of actual violence, there has been a remarkable failure to assimilate or even to co-exist effectively in most French areas. A problem that most western nations are facing..

We tend to look at immigration and think of past successes, when people did merge somewhat into the host population. However, in the past, the numbers of those foreign groups were relatively small, and so the impact of their non-conformity was also limited. With rising numbers of migrants, these groups become large enough to create large enclaves, where they maintain their own cultural identity, and modes of behavior... not influenced by western values, but holding to their own traditional values. Which, in turn, leads to conflict, since many M.Eastern cultures are at polar opposites to western values.

There are some very real and valid concerns about immigration. The deaths might be considered low, and less important, but there are long-lasting impacts for the host culture over time. Now, that's of a lesser concern in a country like Ireland, as our politicians seem hell-bent on dismantling any distinctive Irish culture that makes us different from others... but for nations like France, for whom, their culture is an important part of their identity, then it becomes a major issue that needs resolution.

Calahonda52

listermint wrote: »

My only evidence is that I treat other people with humanity. If they want to practice a faith with their own family and go to church etc it's up to them knock yourself out. Who's business is it of mine or yours frankly .

The state as France is should be secular and free from religion in state activities.

And those general's have no business sticking their noses into politics and making their own nonsense the truth. They should have every part of military law thrown at them.

Now il ask you . What specifically are you afraid of who's coming to your door . What impact on your life is there for you to get so hot headed about this

What evidenced do we have for this
What is your measure of humanity.

Practising their faith is one thing, beheading non believers in public and having it glorified is another.

Chips Lovell

mariaalice wrote: »

France is a very militaristic society and at times could have gone like Spain and become a military dictatorship, except with Spain it was fear of communist now its fear of something else.

Its always a fear that something else or something alien is going to collapse society as they know it and they are going to step in and save it.

Indeed. And actually the last time I recall something similar to this happening was in Spain, when a general was fired after making some vaguely threatening remarks about intervention if Catalan separatism was allowed progress too far.

Mike Murdock

listermint wrote: »

You are multitudes of likely to be killed on a bicycle simply cycling into town than a terrorist attack both here and in France. I don't hear you lads talking about banning cars from the roads and their drivers.

I see we have a new, ridiculous, asinine false equivalence to replace the one that the peanut allergy guy came up with.

listermint

Calahonda52 wrote: »

What evidenced do we have for this
What is your measure of humanity.

Practising their faith is one thing, beheading non believers in public and having it glorified is another.

Yes because as you clearly believe all Muslims believe in those actions and perform them regularly.....



Ha ha ha. .....I'm laughing here because you appear to believe this.

listermint

listermint wrote: »

My only evidence is that I treat other people with humanity. If they want to practice a faith with their own family and go to church etc it's up to them knock yourself out. Who's business is it of mine or yours frankly .

That’s not related to this thread. Also it’s fairly obvious that preening yourself is part of your methodology.

The state as France is should be secular and free from religion in state activities.

It is the most secular state in Europe. However keeping it that way is proving to be difficult. It’s all very well being supposedly secular but if a teacher can’t even show images of Mohammed without getting his head cut off then the country isn’t in fact in practice secular. When the French did respond with some mild criticism, Pakistan withdrew their ambassador. France’s secularism is under threat. Internally and externally.

This is also where your cycling analogy falls down - terrorism is designed to terrorise. Kill one terrorise a million. Killing secular teachers is chilling to free speech. And living.

And those general's have no business sticking their noses into politics and making their own nonsense the truth. They should have every part of military law thrown at them.

As far as I know they are retired.

listermint

[Deleted User] wrote: »

That’s not related to this thread. Also it’s fairly obvious that preening yourself is part of your methodology.



It is the most secular state in Europe. However keeping it that way is proving to be difficult. It’s all very well being supposedly secular but if a teacher can’t even show images of Mohammed without getting his head cut off then the country isn’t in fact in practice secular. When the French did respond with some mild criticism, Pakistan withdrew their ambassador. France’s secularism is under threat. Internally and externally.

This is also where your cycling analogy falls down - terrorism is designed to terrorise. Kill one terrorise a million. Killing secular teachers is chilling to free speech. And living.



As far as I know they are retired.

Active members have signed too. And also you are never fully retired from the military. You can be brought back in to face military court.

timmyntc

listermint wrote: »

You've picked one aspect of their gripe and ran with it


Also you have an above average level of fear that I might suggest you look at. This alternative reality where so called Sharia law is taking over your neighborhood and you are going to be converted or killed is not real buddy.

This isn't real life. Go experience life, you might find other people of different faiths have the same daily grind worries as you. You know people stuff family stuff.

I simply took one of their points and put it to you - now you're deflecting and accusing me of being afraid?? simply so you dont have to answer the question here. Its clear you have no argument if you have to resort to such hyperbole and attributing beliefs to me that I do not own.

Why are you so afraid of a letter written by a group of 'jarheads'?
You have an above average level of fear that I might suggest you look at. This alternative reality where so called Jarheads are taking over your neighborhood and you are going to be forced to obey the law or killed is not real buddy.

This isn't real life. Go experience life, you might find other people of different faiths have the same daily grind worries as you. You know people stuff family stuff.

WrenBoy

listermint wrote: »

Active members have signed too. And also you are never fully retired from the military. You can be brought back in to face military court.

They must have deemed this cause more important than protocols.

listermint

Mike Murdock wrote: »

I see we have a new, ridiculous, asinine false equivalence to replace the one that the peanut allergy guy came up with.

Mike they're coming for you , in your home.

'they' might even take away your Catholicism or insert any Christian faith here...