French generals cause backlash with 'civil war' warning

Chips Lovell

Chips Lovell wrote: »

France has, for over a century, been aggressively monocultural. There is very definite idea of what being French is and no matter what race or religion you are you're expected to like it or lump it.

France has multiple regional cultures of course. And another way of saying “ no matter what race or religion you are you're expected to like it or lump it” is that they are accepting of race and religion but do expect people to also have integrated into France. It’s pretty weird that this is considered controversial, or bad.

Fandymo

AmyMurphy22 wrote: »

It's drama, that's all. It's what the French are good at. Recall - the French declared war on Germany in WW2. Germany took over France in weeks - took Paris in a day. They're a shambles.

Whilst Ireland cowered, shaking like a sh*tting dog, afraid to say or do anything, while helping the Allies on the sly. Courageous.

Chips Lovell

fvp4 wrote: »

It’s pretty weird that this is considered controversial, or bad.

Who is saying it's controversial or bad?

listermint

listermint wrote: »

Mike they're coming for you , in your home.

'they' might even take away your Catholicism or insert any Christian faith here...

Nobody is arguing that anybody is coming for anybody in their home.

Quick question - if a right wing Christian group was killing secular teachers in France for some deviation from scripture would criticism be allowed?

listermint

listermint wrote: »

It's the fear of either I'm making the distinction of. It's pure hyperbole deployed where people wouldn't give a thought about crossing the street with traffic on it.

These are not real life worries for you. So why are you going around demonising an entire demographic. I'd wager most of the folks doing the demonising have never met or worked with anyone of another faith let alone travelled to the countries they are giving out about..

Loss of humanity towards others should be more of a talking point here.

Silencing tactic - If one speaks of problems one is displaying lack of humanity. Rubbish.
I first went to France as a hitch hiker in the early 1980s. I was taken in by a French woman who had married a Morroccan man who had entered France illegally. They treated me like their daughter. Among the most wonderful people I have ever known.

I returned to France many times over the years and such is my affection for the place and the language that one of my children was influenced to go to University there and lived there for several years afterwards.

Over time visiting them in more recent years it is noticeable the differences that have evolved in the past 4 decades. Armed police in pairs are commonplace sights in cities and large towns - that is quite unsettling. There is more segregation between cultures, some of this is due to an increase compared to past decades of a harder line in Islamic sentiment that disapproves of western secular values. Most immigrants just want to live and let live and look after their families, but political Islam exists. It cannot be denied.
There is trauma and anger. On all sides. In all quarters. When something bad happens, like an explosion or a random attack, people do now wonder first if it is terrorism. It is not wrong to debate the roots of any difficulties. Calling out people as showing a loss of humanity for looking at hard things is really growing old as a debate tactic.

Mike Murdock

Fandymo wrote: »

Whilst Ireland cowered, shaking like a sh*tting dog, afraid to say or do anything, while helping the Allies on the sly. Courageous.

And having our (American) Taoiseach, George DeValero, sign the book of condolences for Hitler.

listermint

timmyntc wrote: »

I simply took one of their points and put it to you - now you're deflecting and accusing me of being afraid?? simply so you dont have to answer the question here. Its clear you have no argument if you have to resort to such hyperbole and attributing beliefs to me that I do not own.

Why are you so afraid of a letter written by a group of 'jarheads'?
You have an above average level of fear that I might suggest you look at. This alternative reality where so called Jarheads are taking over your neighborhood and you are going to be forced to obey the law or killed is not real buddy.

This isn't real life. Go experience life, you might find other people of different faiths have the same daily grind worries as you. You know people stuff family stuff.

Can you describe in detail any post where I expressed any concerns about the jarheads. I said they should have the book thrown at them because they acted unlawfully. Similar to how anyone acting outside a nations laws should be brought to try by those nations laws.


I've no concerns or fears about the French military. Just like I've no concerns about Sharia law taking over Ireland.

Chips Lovell

Chips Lovell wrote: »

Who is saying it's controversial or bad?

You. Unless “liking or lumping” something was to be taken as a non criticism, in which case maybe rephrase.

Chips Lovell

fvp4 wrote: »

You. Unless “liking or lumping” something was to be taken as a non criticism, in which case maybe rephrase.

Au contraire, my friend. I'm a big fan of the French approach.

WrenBoy

Fandymo wrote: »

Whilst Ireland cowered, shaking like a sh*tting dog, afraid to say or do anything, while helping the Allies on the sly. Courageous.

Naturally, its not like we were after years of armed conflict and a civil war or anything.

kowloon

Cultures are not something created back in the before-times that have remained static for all of Human history, they change all the time. Splitting and merging is normal. As long as people respect the rules of the society they are in and everyone tries to get along it doesn't have to be some cataclysmic event and the sky won't fall.
Some people are way too into sowing division to suit their agenda. I do think Ireland is going to have a problem in years to come because we have immigrant communities living in relative poverty concentrated in specific areas where they're considered separate from the rest of Irish society and an "us and them" attitude is springing up. I don't, however, think the problem is intractable.

listermint

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Silencing tactic - If one speaks of problems one is displaying lack of humanity. Rubbish.
I first went to France as a hitch hiker in the early 1980s. I was taken in by a French woman who had married a Morroccan man who had entered France illegally. They treated me like their daughter. Among the most wonderful people I have ever known.

I returned to France many times over the years and such is my affection for the place and the language that one of my children was influenced to go to University there and lived there for several years afterwards.

Over time visiting them in more recent years it is noticeable the differences that have evolved in the past 4 decades. Armed police in pairs are commonplace sights in cities and large towns - that is quite unsettling. There is more segregation between cultures, some of this is due to an increase compared to past decades of a harder line in Islamic sentiment that disapproves of western secular values. Most immigrants just want to live and let live and look after their families, but political Islam exists. It cannot be denied.
There is trauma and anger. On all sides. In all quarters. When something bad happens, like an explosion or a random attack, people do now wonder first if it is terrorism. It is not wrong to debate the roots of any difficulties. Calling out people as showing a loss of humanity for looking at hard things is really growing old as a debate tactic.

Your posts shows middle lif specifically where you said most immigrants want to live and let live yes. And there is some sprinklings of political ideology. No one denies that. But you'll find the posters on here are amplifying the issues and saying all immigrants. It's not as level headed as you are pointing to.

That's not shutting down debate that's shutting down hyperbole. It's the usual posters that do it and they know well.

Mike Murdock

listermint wrote: »

Mike they're coming for you , in your home.

'they' might even take away your Catholicism or insert any Christian faith here...

Just more babble from you.

If you can't see that comparing car accidents (where there is a lack of intent to hurt or kill) with terrorism (where the intent is to do just that) is a ridiculously stupid comparison, then you are beyond reasoning with.

Baggly

AmyMurphy22 wrote: »

Q: How do you confuse a French Soldier?
A: Give him a rifle and ask him to shoot it.

Q. How do you introduce yourself in French? A. "Don't shoot, I give up!"

AmyMurphy22 wrote: »

The midget?

AmyMurphy22 wrote: »

Do you think the provisional IRA were "brave" too?

AmyMurphy22 wrote: »

The only army I'd consider worse and more pathetic than the French would be the Italians. They're performance in WW2 was laughable. So that's not a great example there my friend.

AmyMurphy22 wrote: »

I concur. But the overwhelming feeling down south (among the hypocrites of the free state) seems to be that resistance was only brave during the 1916 rising and the war of independence. Any violence in 1960s onwards was just sectarian terrorist scumbags.

AmyMurphy22 wrote: »

Nothing - ask them why they brought up Italy. It wasn't me.

AmyMurphy22 wrote: »

Really - every terrorist? Irrespective of methods? That's not true. Some terrorists just plant bombs and don't actually face any opposition. Also, Adam Lanza shot up a school of 5 YEAR OLDS. That's not brave.

AmyMurphy22 wrote: »

Really? You think even after the civil rights marches were attacked by the RUC, that any fighting back by the nationalists was just "terrorist scumbags"? WOW.

AmyMurphy22 wrote: »

Any thread about any other country has somebody in moaning about why people care another other countries.

AmyMurphy22 wrote: »

The poster said "hundreds OR thousands" not "hundreds OF thousands". So you've truly embarrassed yourself with that retort.

Mod

Dont post in this thread again.

listermint

Mike Murdock wrote: »

Just more babble from you.

If you can't see that comparing car accidents (where there is a lack of intent to hurt or kill) with terrorism (where the intent is to do just that) is a ridiculously stupid comparison, then you are beyond reasoning with.

I'm beyond reasoning with. You're the one throwing nicknames at old presidents of the country for.... I still don't understand why. Highly odd.


Babble you might call it.

Snickers Man

Revolution 1917 wrote: »

Irish media keep silence

Yeah. Where's the Skibereen Eagle when you need it? :rolleyes:

biko

Any type of civil war in France will possibly spread to Germany and maybe even the rest of the union.
Look at BLM riots. Started small and spread over US like wildfire.

French society is fracturing at all different levels, everyone can see this. Luckily in Ireland politicians have said we won't have these issues despite current higher levels of immigration.

I see sheep

What a load of rubbish that statement is :pac:

RulesOfNature

listermint wrote: »

Your posts shows middle lif specifically where you said most immigrants want to live and let live yes. And there is some sprinklings of political ideology. No one denies that. But you'll find the posters on here are amplifying the issues and saying all immigrants. It's not as level headed as you are pointing to.

That's not shutting down debate that's shutting down hyperbole. It's the usual posters that do it and they know well.

It’s not all immigrants. Asians (real Asians not what the media calls ‘Asians’) live peacefully, contribute and conform for the most part. Americans here tend to have mid-high level jobs. My polish friends are Engineers. So it seems to me that most immigrants are contributing and living peacefully.

Most muslims too. However, in France specifically, muslims (what the media might call ‘Asians’) have the monopoly on terrorist violence. Its not racism or extremism to say this. Its all out on the open with plenty of documentation and evidence.

Its also not racism to point out that their religion is entirely incompatible with western Liberal nations. I’d say the same for Christianity, Zoroastronism etc, that its a violent cult. It attracts and radicalizes uneducated young men (that muslim countries are full of) to commit violence to their ‘western imperialist oppressors’.

This is why every now and then a ‘refugee’ or asylum seeker will slit the throat of a teacher out of nowhere.

[Deleted User]

[Deleted User] wrote: »

France has multiple regional cultures of course. And another way of saying “ no matter what race or religion you are you're expected to like it or lump it” is that they are accepting of race and religion but do expect people to also have integrated into France. It’s pretty weird that this is considered controversial, or bad.

That’s pretty much the impression I got from reading the letter from the generals.

Chips Lovell

I think there's more than a few people getting a bit carried away with themselves. There's no imminent civil war. France is a large, prosperous democracy. Sure it has its problems, but so too to most other countries like it. People are making out like its a failed state.

kowloon

biko wrote: »

Any type of civil war in France will possibly spread to Germany and maybe even the rest of the union.
Look at BLM riots. Started small and spread over US like wildfire.

IIf people storming the capitol building looking to capture and execute members of the government didn't kick off a civil war I don't think people burning down a Starbucks or two is going to do it either. Unless they stop them voting, people don't like being marginalised like that.

I see sheep

Chips Lovell wrote: »

I think there's more than a few people getting a bit carried away with themselves. There's no imminent civil war. France is a large, prosperous democracy. Sure it has its problems, but so too to most other countries like it. People are making out like its a failed state.

Everyone knows this I think, but it doesn't suit some people's crazy conspiracy theories :rolleyes:

francois

Some truly laughable speculation going on-Their won't be a civil war in France and it won't spread across Europe.

kowloon

kowloon wrote: »

Some people are way too into sowing division to suit their agenda. I do think Ireland is going to have a problem in years to come because we have immigrant communities living in relative poverty concentrated in specific areas where they're considered separate from the rest of Irish society and an "us and them" attitude is springing up. I don't, however, think the problem is intractable.

This is it exactly and there are any amount of people ready to point out that certain immigrants don't work, they are a drain on us and we shouldn't take them.
Perhaps what we should be doing is not dumping people new to the country into suburbs full of unemployed immigrants. Make plans for these people, help them to be a part of society. And I don't mean turn into Irish people, there is nothing wrong with people being different.

Danzy

rossie1977 wrote: »

Hundreds of thousands dead...are you expecting someone to detonate a nuclear weapon in middle of Paris?

I'd expect you to read correctly rather than bring your own projections.

francois

francois wrote: »

Some truly laughable speculation going on-Their won't be a civil war in France and it won't spread across Europe.

It’s not so much speculation as wishful thinking for some lads.

I don't see a civil war but I also don't see French society coming together, it'll be continued fracturing and isolating communities, what happens long term is anyone's guess. The same thing will happen throughout Europe including Ireland.

EmmetSpiceland

biko wrote: »

Any type of civil war in France will possibly spread to Germany and maybe even the rest of the union.
Look at BLM riots. Started small and spread over US like wildfire.

What about Sweden? Do you think it would spread there?