New job description

LegacyUser

I recently got a new role added to my job description. My manager hasn't done the bare minimum of research into the new role, she doesn't understand it and hasn't contacted anyone for advice on what should be included etc.,

There are three sentences. The first sentence is fine it says assign roles in the database. The second sentence is couched in convoluted language but essentially just says log in to the database and view things in the database, so I pointed out that this was a superfluous thing to put on a job description as we know I am using the database so it doesn't need to be stated.

The third line says I must give regular updates to a committee. 1. Presentations are not a normal part of my role or anyone else's at my grade. 2. There is not a service need for these updates. 3. I contested the fact that I would have to attend this committee and give presentations and she said oh no you just have to give updates to myself and her line manager but I pointed out to her that that is not what the job description says that that herself and her line manager are not 'X committee'. I have never been invited to this committee and quite frankly wouldn't be because of my level within the organisation.

My fear is that she is trying to get me to do parts of her job as a large part of her job requires her to provide training materials and carry out presentations. It has been over a year now and she has done neither. Her manager doesn't seem to care that she isn't fulfilling her job description and is protecting her.

So two issues the job description doesn't make sense, she is lying to me about what it contains and the reasoning behind it. She wants to save face basically. She says that it is no longer in draft format and that this is the job description.

What do I do now? Wait until h.r. finalise it and then complain to h.r.?

OMM 0000

I feel like you're handling this completely wrong, and I sense a bad attitude.

This is how you handle it if you want to get promoted and have a decent career:

"Oh great, I love this stuff, thanks. When it comes to giving updates, would you mind helping me the first time so I know what data and format you guys are looking for."

Now she thinks you've a great attitude. You will also get to interact with a committee who I assume are more senior than you. This is how you get promoted, by developing relationships with people more senior than you.

Wanderer2010

OMM 0000 wrote: »

I feel like you're handling this completely wrong, and I sense a bad attitude.

This is how you handle it if you want to get promoted and have a decent career:

"Oh great, I love this stuff, thanks. When it comes to giving updates, would you mind helping me the first time so I know what data and format you guys are looking for."

Now she thinks you've a great attitude. You will also get to interact with a committee who I assume are more senior than you. This is how you get promoted, by developing relationships with people more senior than you.

Maybe they dont want a promotion?

LegacyUser

OMM 0000 wrote: »

I feel like you're handling this completely wrong, and I sense a bad attitude.

This is how you handle it if you want to get promoted and have a decent career:

"Oh great, I love this stuff, thanks. When it comes to giving updates, would you mind helping me the first time so I know what data and format you guys are looking for."

Now she thinks you've a great attitude. You will also get to interact with a committee who I assume are more senior than you. This is how you get promoted, by developing relationships with people more senior than you.

Yes I have a 'bad attitude'. I got dicked around by them last year and had to go through a process with hr and the union for them to acknowledge the work I did for them for months that was two grades above my role because my manager is incompetent. I don't expect a promotion anytime soon and I'm fine with that. I do not respect their lack of professionalism and I am seeking advice solely on my job description and how to get an intelligent and professional job description. I don't give a damn about sucking up to anybody, that train has left the station. My manager wouldn't be able to help me with the presentation and probably wouldn't understand parts of it in any case. The people on the committee have jobs that are in a different sphere to mine and would not be able to assist me in climbing the greasy ladder to the top so to speak.

dennyk

anonymouse66 wrote: »

There are three sentences. The first sentence is fine it says assign roles in the database. The second sentence is couched in convoluted language but essentially just says log in to the database and view things in the database, so I pointed out that this was a superfluous thing to put on a job description as we know I am using the database so it doesn't need to be stated.

It might seem superfluous to you, but employees sometimes get very nitpicky about their job descriptions and are unwilling to be even the slightest bit flexible about them, so it's often best to err on the side of superfluity, otherwise you end up with employees complaining to h.r. about their job descriptions and duties... :pac:

anonymouse66 wrote: »

The third line says I must give regular updates to a committee. 1. Presentations are not a normal part of my role or anyone else's at my grade. 2. There is not a service need for these updates. 3. I contested the fact that I would have to attend this committee and give presentations and she said oh no you just have to give updates to myself and her line manager but I pointed out to her that that is not what the job description says that that herself and her line manager are not 'X committee'. I have never been invited to this committee and quite frankly wouldn't be because of my level within the organisation.

Giving regular updates on things might well be within the normal scope of your job. Does it specifically say that you must give a presentation to this committee? They may just need you to produce a regular report for them on the data in question; that doesn't mean you'd need to be on the committee, and you might not need to attend meetings personally to provide this data to them. It would be perfectly normal for your managers to receive your reports for 'X committee' and forward them on to the people in question.

As far as there being a "service need" for this information, well, hate to say it, but if the committee is above your pay grade, then so are the decisions on what "service needs" exist for that committee and what information they require.

anonymouse66 wrote: »

My fear is that she is trying to get me to do parts of her job as a large part of her job requires her to provide training materials and carry out presentations. It has been over a year now and she has done neither. Her manager doesn't seem to care that she isn't fulfilling her job description and is protecting her.

You seem oddly fixated on "job descriptions", both yours and those of other employees (including those employees above you). A job description is not meant to be a precise and exhaustive list of all of the specific tasks you will perform at your job; it's meant to be a general overview of your role within the organisation. Your employer might ask you to do many things related to that role that aren't specifically defined in that job description directly, and they might not ask you to do everything that's mentioned in your job description. In addition, your manager might well fulfill her job requirements in part by delegating some of those tasks to you; that's part of her job.

Your job description says that you do stuff with "the database". That stuff might reasonably include compiling reports from information in "the database" for others to review. Refusing to do a task that's relevant to your role just because it isn't something that's defined step by step in your job description already is very poor form at best, and doing it often enough could see you on your way out of a job entirely.

anonymouse66 wrote: »

So two issues the job description doesn't make sense, she is lying to me about what it contains and the reasoning behind it. She wants to save face basically. She says that it is no longer in draft format and that this is the job description.

What do I do now? Wait until h.r. finalise it and then complain to h.r.?

There's nothing here that warrants any kind of complaint to HR. Why do you assume your manager is lying to you? She clearly told you that your task would be to give her and her manager your regular updates for them to pass along to the committee, thus fulfilling your job description. I imagine she's rather confused as to what the issue is here.

What is it you're afraid of, exactly? Do you think they're setting you up to be sacked for failing to fulfill your duties? Firing you just because you never did X even though your job description says you do X isn't going to hold water unless your manager has actually asked you to do X and you've refused or failed to do so repeatedly. Your manager controls your workflow and assigns you work; you're not supposed to just blindly follow everything that's written in your job description like it's some sort of daily assignment list.

If your concern is that your workload is increasing to unsustainable levels, that would be a valid thing to bring up with your manager, but you should approach it in the context that you don't have time to complete all of your assigned work during your normal work hours due to the volume, not in the context that said work isn't precisely defined in your current job description. Nitpicking over what is or isn't covered by your job description just makes you appear petty and uncooperative, which isn't going to endear you to your manager or your employer.

If your concern is that your new duties are things you aren't comfortable with, such as giving presentations, then you can bring your concerns to your manager and ask them for advice and support. Stepping outside your comfort zone sometimes is part of life, though; refusing to take on your newly assigned tasks just because you don't want to do them isn't going to fly.

I'd just take a deep breath here and try to relax, and stop obsessing over your "job description". Nothing is static; the duties and processes involved in any job will naturally change and evolve over time, and you need to learn to be flexible and be able to accommodate such changes.

OMM 0000

anonymouse66 wrote: »

Yes I have a 'bad attitude'. I got dicked around by them last year and had to go through a process with hr and the union for them to acknowledge the work I did for them for months that was two grades above my role because my manager is incompetent. I don't expect a promotion anytime soon and I'm fine with that. I do not respect their lack of professionalism and I am seeking advice solely on my job description and how to get an intelligent and professional job description. I don't give a damn about sucking up to anybody, that train has left the station. My manager wouldn't be able to help me with the presentation and probably wouldn't understand parts of it in any case. The people on the committee have jobs that are in a different sphere to mine and would not be able to assist me in climbing the greasy ladder to the top so to speak.

You need to leave this job. Your attitude is toxic.

Pawwed Rig

I don't really understand this tbh. Your objection is helping your manager?
My role as a manager is to get my staff to do a job. We all help each other out allocate work in as fair a way as possible to avoid certain people being over burdened. Our most junior people in the door less than a couple of months will be giving presentations. Presentations aren't that onerous. If one of them started moaning about what was and what wasn't their job they would not get past their probation period.
This has never happened but what has happened is that when some employees realised that they were not really suitable for the job they had they handed in their notice and left. This might be your best course of action here. Try and do something you enjoy. Life is too short for being somewhere you aren't happy and doesn't motivate you.

LegacyUser

OMM 0000 wrote: »

You need to leave this job. Your attitude is toxic.

Um no I went to hr and the union and they both agreed that what was done was not correct and my role was acknowledged. I feel sorry for you if you think that allowing people to screw you continuously out of advancement and money is okay because you will always be taken advantage of.

I was put under so much stress and pressure I am now on medication. I told my boss that I was working on my annual leave and over the christmas holidays doing work that would normally have been hers and was done by other managers at her grade and she laughed at me, she enjoyed her time off work free.

Your attitude is toxic.

dennyk wrote: »

I'd just take a deep breath here and try to relax, and stop obsessing over your "job description". Nothing is static; the duties and processes involved in any job will naturally change and evolve over time, and you need to learn to be flexible and be able to accommodate such changes.

My expectation is that they take the time to understand the task before they write the description, there is a short training course of an hour which has been recorded that tells them what the job entails. They can take the course. They can contact the person who manages the database and speak to them briefly. They can take the time to write an intelligent job description that relates to the job, they have a choice to act in a professional way. It is simple but they have not done any of that.

Nobody has 'log into a database and look at stuff' on their job description. That is ridiculous and unintelligent considering that the rest of the description describes tasks that would require you to login at the very least.

There is no reason for me to do presentations, the committee that I would be presenting to do not give a damn about this task and nor should they, the task is also a lot more complex and broader than what is reflected in the jd and they are missing out on key aspects of the new task. I have seen several other jds and my jd is poorly written to put it mildly.

They have form for being ineffective and deliberately confusing matters so they can apply pressure to me, I have had to take a case with hr previously which I won. My manager can tell me to do extra tasks that will help her to achieve her goals but that is not what has happened. What happens is they wave the jd in front of me and tell me that I have to do her work for her while she finishes early and I stay on and struggle to do it, hr have told them to stop doing this because it is not my job

All I am asking is that others conduct themselves in a professional manner and that things are looked into properly. I wouldn't be complaining to h.r. I would be raising concerns.

Please stop telling me how a job description should be written. Please stop telling me to do the work of managers to attain an imaginary promotion that doesn't exist.

Some of the responses to problems on this forum are scary and brain washed along the lines of 'the leader is good the leader is great surrender your will as of this date'.

LegacyUser

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

I don't really understand this tbh. Your objection is helping your manager?
My role as a manager is to get my staff to do a job. We all help each other out allocate work in as fair a way as possible to avoid certain people being over burdened. Our most junior people in the door less than a couple of months will be giving presentations. Presentations aren't that onerous. If one of them started moaning about what was and what wasn't their job they would not get past their probation period.
This has never happened but what has happened is that when some employees realised that they were not really suitable for the job they had they handed in their notice and left. This might be your best course of action here. Try and do something you enjoy. Life is too short for being somewhere you aren't happy and doesn't motivate you.

No thank you. I like my job and I don't want to leave. My situation is completely different to the one you describe. Do you not do your job? Do you give other people your work and then go home early? Do you ensure that they don't have annual leave because they are doing your work? Then it's not the same. I am overloaded and don't have time to do the work of others that they refuse to do.

If anyone would like to answer the question I originally asked about how to approach the situation with my job description I'm all ears.

dennyk

anonymouse66 wrote: »

Yes I have a 'bad attitude'. I got dicked around by them last year and had to go through a process with hr and the union for them to acknowledge the work I did for them for months that was two grades above my role because my manager is incompetent.

What do you mean, "acknowledge"? No one's going to throw you an award ceremony or give you a huge pay rise for compiling a report that your manager has normally been putting together previously. It's perfectly normal to be asked to do tasks that might be outside, or even above, your current role from time to time. Unless doing them would violate the law or internal policies (e.g. doing a task you don't have the necessary licenses or training for) or you don't have the authority or the physical security access to do them, it's best to try to help out where you can. If you are actually unable to help due to a lack of access, knowledge, or authority, then you should politely inform the requester of that and try to point them to the correct department or person who can help, or ask your manager how you can obtain the necessary access or training to be able to do the work in question yourself. "That's not in my job description, so go away now..." is a very poor attitude to bring to work, and will not get you very far in life in general.

anonymouse66 wrote: »

I don't expect a promotion anytime soon and I'm fine with that.

That's fine; nothing wrong with being happy where you're at and not looking to climb the ladder. That doesn't excuse doing a poor job, though; you should try to do your best work for the sake of doing good work and try to get on with your employer and your colleagues for the sake of getting on, not just because you're angling for a promotion.

anonymouse66 wrote: »

I do not respect their lack of professionalism and I am seeking advice solely on my job description and how to get an intelligent and professional job description.

Again, you're way too focused on your job description, which really should just be some meaningless fluff that vaguely describes your overall role. Your job is to do whatever tasks your employer requires that are relevant to your role (and occasionally some that might not be as relevant). Don't worry about what the job description says, worry about the work your manager is assigning you. If you don't understand something about your assignments, then yes, ask your manager for explanation or clarification, but leave your job description out of it; it doesn't matter.

anonymouse66 wrote: »

My manager wouldn't be able to help me with the presentation and probably wouldn't understand parts of it in any case.

Your manager doesn't have to know the technical details of whatever report or data you're compiling; that's your job. They should know what information the committee wants to know and they should be able to pass that along to you so that you can gather and analyse the necessary data and prepare a report that provides the necessary information.

anonymouse66 wrote: »

I don't give a damn about sucking up to anybody, that train has left the station...The people on the committee have jobs that are in a different sphere to mine and would not be able to assist me in climbing the greasy ladder to the top so to speak.

Having a positive attitude while helping out your coworkers and doing your job isn't about "sucking up", it's just the right way to do things. You should try to get along with folks as best you can and do your job to the best of your ability whether or not they can directly help you get promoted.

You're also being rather shortsighted, though; the people on that committee might not be in your current chain of command, but they likely have their own departments and folks reporting to them, and in the future they might well be the hiring manager in this or even in some other organisation that you're applying to. Most industries are surprisingly small communities and you never know when you might see old faces in new places. If one day you are applying for a job elsewhere and it does happen to involve one of those folks from 'X Committee', would you rather have them remember you as that hard-working analyst who was always happy to help and gave them those very useful reports and presentations, or that grumpy analyst who only begrudgingly did the bare minimum while constantly moaning about how such things weren't "in their job description" or were "above their grade"?

Honestly, you seem to be really unhappy with your job in general. Maybe it really isn't the best fit for you? If you're that unhappy with where you're at, it might be time to start looking around. I know the market isn't great right now with everything going on, but there are still openings out there, so it's certainly worth looking around for a role that would suit you better.

LegacyUser

dennyk wrote: »

What do you mean, "acknowledge"? No one's going to throw you an award ceremony or give you a huge pay rise for compiling a report that your manager has normally been putting together previously. It's perfectly normal to be asked to do tasks that might be outside, or even above, your current role from time to time.



That doesn't excuse doing a poor job, though.



Again, you're way too focused on your job description, which really should just be some meaningless fluff that vaguely describes your overall role.

That's not what the union said about the work or the length of time it took to do the work. Equal pay for equal work. Also three other managers outside of my department advised me to go to h.r. once they realised what my situation was. They only realised what my situation was because I had to ask them for help and not they didn't say go to management they said go to h.r.

I did not do a bad job, that is your assumption based on nothing. I did a very good job and kept our department running when others abdicated responsibility and refused to do work. It's fair to say that they would have been lost without me if I had left.

OMM 0000

anonymouse66 wrote: »

I feel sorry for you if you think that allowing people to screw you continuously out of advancement and money is okay because you will always be taken advantage of.

What?

At least now we have confirmation you twist things in the most negative way.

I feel sorry for your manager.

1hnr79jr65

Op, did your manager hold a documented meeting/1 to 1 with you to discuss these changes so both were on board with requirements and in agreement with the way forward?

Are current role requirements being changed to facilitate these changes? Has anyone actually taken you through the requirements to ensure it meets expectations, if not why not? I would being going back to counter on these points if no change of support.

You are within your right to ask for a time in motion study to discover the impact on your job performance with these new duties to see if they will influence your targets positively/negatively and overall in promotion or pay prospects.

I would also compare these duties vs roles available online and compare the pay for such to see the impact against your current standing, then you will have a better way to counter these changes being presented.

LegacyUser

Sour Lemonz wrote: »

Op, did your manager hold a documented meeting/1 to 1 with you to discuss these changes so both were on board with requirements and in agreement with the way forward?

Are current role requirements being changed to facilitate these changes? Has anyone actually taken you through the requirements to ensure it meets expectations, if not why not? I would being going back to counter on these points if no change of support.

You are within your right to ask for a time in motion study to discover the impact on your job performance with these new duties to see if they will influence your targets positively/negatively and overall in promotion or pay prospects.

I would also compare these duties vs roles available online and compare the pay for such to see the impact against your current standing, then you will have a better way to counter these changes being presented.

We had a catch up meeting and I raised my issues with it and I was told it was a draft jd. Then I had my annual review (I asked for the update to the jd for my annual review) it had been two months since they told me about the new role and no jd. At my annual review I was asked what I thought about the jd and I raised the issues again. Her response was to tell me that it was no longer a draft but the final version. I know that h.r. haven't looked at it yet.

They have shoe horned this task in and changed the percentages on my job description. On the surface the work load seems okay but it really depends on what they envision the job to be. There are other people working with the database in different parts of the company and their grade varies based on their involvement with it. I have already brought up some concerns about this tentatively, it's difficult to do a job effectively if you don't know what the limitations are etc.,

Pawwed Rig

Sour Lemonz wrote: »

You are within your right to ask for a time in motion study to discover the impact on your job performance with these new duties to see if they will influence your targets positively/negatively and overall in promotion or pay prospects.

Time in motion study? Where is this parallel universe people are working?

dennyk

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

Time in motion study? Where is this parallel universe people are working?

Maybe this is a civil service job of some sort? Getting a strong whiff of some Kafkaesque bureaucracy here, for sure... Maybe it's just different in the IT world or something, but I can't remember the last time I ever even looked at my own job description at any job, much less had meetings about it or had it broken down into percentages or used in lieu of periodic goals for review purposes. Job duty changes are generally either my boss going "Hey, can you do X?" and me either going "Sure!" or "Oh, I'm not sure I have the bandwidth for that at the moment...", or (at some companies I've worked at over the years) being the first sucker to grab a random support request about new product/system Y from the queue, thus instantly becoming the "Product/System Y Subject Matter Expert" forevermore... :pac:

1hnr79jr65

dennyk wrote: »

Maybe this is a civil service job of some sort? Getting a strong whiff of some Kafkaesque bureaucracy here, for sure...

Used to work in a call center, TIM's were used a lot for justifying bonus plans among other targets. However some folks who were smart that had random work piled on them would request a TIM to prove it was not possible to do as it would cost them productivity and bonus.

Angler1

Journal everything. Make a detailed list of your responsibilities. Submit this list as a formal part of your review.
You strike me as someone who is taking on more responsibility than your role definition. This is acceptable to a point. It can be a useful indication to your employer's of your suitability for advancement.
But you are stressing over it.
Basic list of what you are doing should clarify to you, and your employer, exactly what value you bring.
Don't be complacent. You may not be the whiz you think you are. That is a constant failing of the technical classes