Social and NGO housing concentration in Dublin City Center, time to say enough?

Wanderer78

Kermit.de.frog wrote:

Dublin City Council and various NGO's like the one run by Peter McVerry are in the process of further ghettoising Dublin City Center through new social only housing developments.

.... We could try gentrification, place would look nicer and we can push all that complicated social stuff elsewhere, but at least we wouldn't have to dealing with it or looking at it!

corner of hells

Eric Cartman wrote: »

We need a scum village model, like the dutch (thats their name for it)

Firstly there should never again be a social house built within the m50 , with the current stock sold off as units become available, dublin should be a city for those who contribute, not those who detract.

Social tenants who work and behave should be placed in suburbs among other affordable housing in mixed developments,

The trouble makers and lifelong dole crowd should all be given only the option of remotely located ‘scum villages’ which are effectively like soft prisons, over policed, super concentrated with governmemt provided services , further education etc...

Sorta like internment ? Or gulags ? Would you thinking Leitrim or Cavan ?

suicide_circus

corner of hells wrote: »

Sorta like internment ? Or gulags ? Would you thinking Leitrim or Cavan ?

Well the dutch are doing it with people who make life hell for their neighbours and have had many chances to cop on and refuse to do so. It's a consequence of their own actions.

Kermit.de.frog

There is the other point of view whereby why should the rest of society suffer instead of concentrating such problems in one controllable area well outside the city? If these people have been given chances and refused to change I don't see why not. Also would act as a bit of a deterrent.

The Dutch have an interesting idea there.

Eric Cartman

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

There is the other point of view whereby why should the rest of society suffer instead of concentrating such problems in one controllable area well outside the city? If these people have been given chances and refused to change I don't see why not. Also would act as a bit of a deterrent.

The Dutch have an interesting idea there.

Like what difference does it make to them really, just put an offo, a dealz, a bookies etc.. in some barron land and throw up a boat load of apartments, they can all session themselves into oblivion away from the rest of us.

JustAThought

Virginia Calm Apricot wrote: »

Social problems in the capital have been in plain view and dismissed for a good 30 years now.

Yes and no - they have thrown BILLiONS at it and have f* all to show for it bar ghettos of inter generational dossers and facilitating every criminal scum that staggers along.

We should shut down ALL these agencies and programmes and force these lifelong dole dossers to work - 9-5 every day - community improvement, planting trees, digging up drains, litter oicking, scraping chewing gum off streets, washing windows - anything practical.

And stop the formula of ghettoised teenage unmarried mothers given houses for life paid for by the working poor - and the formula of parents in 3 bedroom e20 a week council houses for life being able to ‘throw out’ their teenage children and yet have their children insist on living beside their ma and demand another council house for them & let their ma keep the 3 bed council house beside them and not be removed from it.

The whole thing is just an institutionalised farce oaid for by the working poor. Shut them down, deport them to somewhere in the arsehole of nowhere and allow the city become a living SAFE place. If they have to demolish ALL the no-go flats and create parks and green spaces I wouldn’t give a monkeys - MOST of Dublin city centre is now reinforced with slum no go council flat ghettos. Someone should have puy an end to this in the 90’s. Instead we jow have eu directives mandating is to spend more billions on each of them to make them A BER rated.

Demolish the lot and send them out to box bedsits in the middle of a field in Leitrim/Cavan/Longford. They’ll soon want to improve their life and learn the value of working to improve their life then. The whole thing - including the encouraging squatting in elderly nursing home residents houses advocated by Peter McVerry has just become a total joke. If we are going to have a communist housing state within a capatilist system then we should at least have the equivalent of work camps and Siberia.

Kermit.de.frog

JustAThought wrote: »

Yes and no - they have thrown BILLiONS at it and have f* all to show for it bar ghettos of inter generational dossers and facilitating every criminal scum that staggers along.

We should shut down ALL these agencies and programmes and force these lifelong dole dossers to work - 9-5 every day for. And stop the formula of teenage unmarried mothers for houses for life paid for by the working poor - and the formula of parents in 3 bedroom e20 a week council houses for life being able to ‘throw out’ their children and yet have their children insist on living beside their ma & let their ma keep the 3 bed council house and not be removed from it.

There was a program on RTE a few years back about welfare dependency that raised comment at the time and I think they had a social worker on it who happened to be present when one of the "clients" told her mother she was pregnant.

He said that was fine but what opened his eyes and upset him a bit was the mother's reaction. The first words out of her mouth were "you'll get your money now" or something like that, can't remember the exact quote. Then he said he had to think about that for a while afterward...maybe the thinking should be done prior to that point in the system?

Gunmonkey

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

The desire for mixed housing is to ensure that anti-social behaviour doesn't look quite as bad if it is spread around rather than concentrated in one area.

City centre social housing should be prioritized to provide affordable housing for low paid city workers. There is simply no valid reason to provide social housing in the centre of the city while low paid essential workers have to pay a premium to commute to their jobs.

But but but dis is where dey grew up and and and dey just want to be near der Ma and and and de soul of Dublin and and and yer killin de communitee and and and its terrible Joe...

JustAThought

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

There was a program on RTE a few years back about welfare dependency that raised comment at the time and I think they had a social worker on it who happened to be present when one of the "clients" told her mother she was pregnant.

He said that was fine but what opened his eyes and upset him a bit was the mother's reaction. The first words out of her mouth were "you'll get your money now" or something like that, can't remember the exact quote. Then he said he had to think about that for a while afterward...maybe the thinking should be done prior to that point in the system?

If the granny/mother had to have them live with her for the next twenty years she’d be a lot quicker to use the free medical card, free doctors visits and free contraception they’ve been handed out & have had made available to them since they were born.

Inter generational dole dossers & welfare scroungers - a burden on society & facilitated at every turn by the bleeding heart industry of ‘socialwork’ and the working poor taxpayer.

It should have been stopped 30 years ago - but now we have yet another generation of dole scroungers - this time not drug addicts and not underpriveliged as they used be termed but now the new catchphrase for them is ‘homeless’.
We couldn’t have the agencies supporting the ‘underpriveliged’ being caught out as being unfit for purpose and utterly useless - they just re-jigged the term and now class the all as homeless (don’t own a house age 17 - homeless - didn’t bother laying your rent - homeless - living with your parents and want a free house for live - homeless, pregnant on your third child by another man age 19 - homeless). Its a national disgrace. Ghetto living in the city centre close to your dealer and nixer for everyone courtesy of the taxpayer and the lucrative new growth employer - the industry of ‘homeless’. Over 350 ‘charities’ paying themselves wages and CEO salaries in Ireland to ‘fix’ this entitled problem.A house for everyone who dosn’t want to work for it - ever - city centre living as as much benefits and illegal activity that you can fit in.

Maybe if we also started insisting on the name of the father on the birth certs again and persuing these fathers fr child upkeep they might be a bit less quick to put their gf’s in the rotunda - DNA testing can prove false allegations quickly now.

Thelonious Monk

They're not going anywhere, all the new developments in the IFSC and grand canal dock have some going to locals from Pearse St flats and Sheriff St etc. It's sickening that only the very well off can afford them or people on housing list.
There will be no ghettos built in Leitrim and they'll keep up the current housing policy so the only way to make things better is focusing social services on them to try and keep kids in education and encouraging young girls to have careers and not get pregnant.

Biker79

I can accept a small percentage of criminals/ druggies. The reasons they exist are complex and we have to get on with it.

The key is getting the balance right. If there are too many of these types in an area...over 5% I would say...it then negatively impacts on everyone else. In the city center, that includes businesses and employers.

Right now, Dublin city center has far too many of them. There is no chance of a recovery after the pandemic, at this rate.

Nermal

corner of hells wrote: »

Sorta like internment ? Or gulags ?

Calm down there Solzhenitsyn.

You'd be able to leave by the simple expedient of paying the going rate for a house elsewhere, so not really a gulag, is it?

JustAThought

Nermal wrote: »

Calm down there Solzhenitsyn.

You'd be able to leave by the simple expedient of paying the going rate for a house elsewhere, so not really a gulag, is it?

Not if they move in 10% scrotes, junkies and hardened criminal families in from the ghettos.

Build betsit gulags for them - far far away in a field in the middle of nowhere. No nixers, no handy shops to rob, no hardworking people to terrorise, no streetcrawling and chugging for fix money, no sitting at ATM’s waiting for drunks to exploit, no robbing from shops, no hand cash numbers cleaning to boost up your dole, no childminding cash in hand job for people who work - just 4 walls and a screaming baby to focus on and no way out unless you work. Now there’s a concept. Working to earn your keep and pay your way.

donaghs

corner of hells wrote: »

Sorta like internment ? Or gulags ? Would you thinking Leitrim or Cavan ?

Could be worse. To honest, a lot of these people should be in prison, if the will was there the prosecute them, and when they were, they actually served out most of their sentence.

just 2 days ago: https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/jail-for-multiple-muggings-of-women-in-dublin-city-centre-1118965.html
(half the sentence suspended, what will they actually serve?etc)

Floppybits

One of the main problems for Dublin City Centre is the size of the city centre, it's too small. If you look at other Cities they would have housing further out from the City Centre, in most cities it would only be the rich that could afford to live close the city centre. Here we have the social housing Flats less than a 5 minute walk from all the main area's of the city centre so all the problems in those spill out into the city centre. Whereas in the likes of London, Paris and other big cities you don't see the problem as much because the problems are further outside the city centre. Here unfortunately there is no hiding it.

WrenBoy

Nermal wrote: »

Calm down there Solzhenitsyn.

You'd be able to leave by the simple expedient of paying the going rate for a house elsewhere, so not really a gulag, is it?

Be honest, did you spell that from memory or did you have to google it ?

end of the road

Eric Cartman wrote: »

We need a scum village model, like the dutch (thats their name for it)

Firstly there should never again be a social house built within the m50 , with the current stock sold off as units become available, dublin should be a city for those who contribute, not those who detract.

Social tenants who work and behave should be placed in suburbs among other affordable housing in mixed developments,

The trouble makers and lifelong dole crowd should all be given only the option of remotely located ‘scum villages’ which are effectively like soft prisons, over policed, super concentrated with governmemt provided services , further education etc...

yeah, not going to happen, time to suggest something realistic.
contributers live in social housing as well as the few won't works, so building social housing within the m50 will be happening as well as outside it in certain locations.

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

There is the other point of view whereby why should the rest of society suffer instead of concentrating such problems in one controllable area well outside the city? If these people have been given chances and refused to change I don't see why not. Also would act as a bit of a deterrent.

The Dutch have an interesting idea there.

the only thing that has some possibility of acting as a deterrent to crime or anti-social behaviour is more gards and them being seen out and about.
scum villages and all other stuff won't make a jot of difference to people who just don't care, but an ability to disrupt their activities on the other hand might work some bit.

JustAThought wrote: »

Yes and no - they have thrown BILLiONS at it and have f* all to show for it bar ghettos of inter generational dossers and facilitating every criminal scum that staggers along.

We should shut down ALL these agencies and programmes and force these lifelong dole dossers to work - 9-5 every day - community improvement, planting trees, digging up drains, litter oicking, scraping chewing gum off streets, washing windows - anything practical.

And stop the formula of ghettoised teenage unmarried mothers given houses for life paid for by the working poor - and the formula of parents in 3 bedroom e20 a week council houses for life being able to ‘throw out’ their teenage children and yet have their children insist on living beside their ma and demand another council house for them & let their ma keep the 3 bed council house beside them and not be removed from it.

The whole thing is just an institutionalised farce oaid for by the working poor. Shut them down, deport them to somewhere in the arsehole of nowhere and allow the city become a living SAFE place. If they have to demolish ALL the no-go flats and create parks and green spaces I wouldn’t give a monkeys - MOST of Dublin city centre is now reinforced with slum no go council flat ghettos. Someone should have puy an end to this in the 90’s. Instead we jow have eu directives mandating is to spend more billions on each of them to make them A BER rated.

Demolish the lot and send them out to box bedsits in the middle of a field in Leitrim/Cavan/Longford. They’ll soon want to improve their life and learn the value of working to improve their life then. The whole thing - including the encouraging squatting in elderly nursing home residents houses advocated by Peter McVerry has just become a total joke. If we are going to have a communist housing state within a capatilist system then we should at least have the equivalent of work camps and Siberia.

how much would that cost? where would the resources and man power come from to oversea these people to insure they do the work? what about those already doing those jobs, are they made redundant?
how much would deporting people to the back arse of nowhere along with the supporting infrastructure cost and how much would tax have to rise to pay for it?
we have been trying to put an end to ghettoes via mixed developments, you and others complain about that, and yet you want the very thing you whine about, all be it elsewhere for others to clean up your mess.
and yes the EU directives to make housing stock better and more efficient is necessary to save over all costs in the long run, newer more efficient houses are costlier to build but ultimately cheaper to maintain .
what you want was tried and it failed, get over it, your want for people to be deported to cavan etc for the people there to have to put up with it isn't happening.

Ash.J.Williams

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Dublin City Council and various NGO's like the one run by Peter McVerry are in the process of further ghettoising Dublin City Center through new social only housing developments.

With crime and casual violence escalating in there is it not time for a radical rethink before the center of our capital city becomes no go?

Let's be honest, it's been teethering for years but seems to me it's going over the edge now.

It's willful vandalism at this stage by the authorities and people are going to be driven out because it's becoming unsafe.

I have just seen a shocking story being talked about on Twitter about a pregnant woman on Dame Street who was assaulted and lost her child.

https://twitter.com/DaveyDonn/status/1387685950780854272

As bad as this is I'm not surprised.

Sadly assaults, and random unprovoked attacks, are an every day issue now and marauding gangs of youths, drug addicts and petty criminals.

Our city center is not just important for us but imagine how visitors feel as well. It's also important for the country. Businesses will have to move on as well and the place will be hollowed out.

The problems come from the preponderance of existing and being built social and NGO housing complexes. That is where the problems start.

They are being concentrated in a relatively geographically small area and how can anyone be surprised when it effects our main streets, the center of the city.

Yet instead of calling a halt the council seem intent on making things worse.

I've just read about a brand new social housing only scheme on Talbot St to be built (because that's exactly what Dublin 1 needs).
But there is many more planned or under construction.

It's not so much the social housing but the fact these are not mixed developments so the council is expanding ghettos.

Why are they doing this knowing the consequences?

I really think they need to reassess.

At the very least every development should be mixed. Otherwise they just dumping all societies ills in to a place people will not want to visit in my view.

Strange tweet , people die daily in the USA and uk and nobody cares

end of the road

JustAThought wrote: »

If the granny/mother had to have them live with her for the next twenty years she’d be a lot quicker to use the free medical card, free doctors visits and free contraception they’ve been handed out & have had made available to them since they were born.

Inter generational dole dossers & welfare scroungers - a burden on society & facilitated at every turn by the bleeding heart industry of ‘socialwork’ and the working poor taxpayer.

It should have been stopped 30 years ago - but now we have yet another generation of dole scroungers - this time not drug addicts and not underpriveliged as they used be termed but now the new catchphrase for them is ‘homeless’.
We couldn’t have the agencies supporting the ‘underpriveliged’ being caught out as being unfit for purpose and utterly useless - they just re-jigged the term and now class the all as homeless (don’t own a house age 17 - homeless - didn’t bother laying your rent - homeless - living with your parents and want a free house for live - homeless, pregnant on your third child by another man age 19 - homeless). Its a national disgrace. Ghetto living in the city centre close to your dealer and nixer for everyone courtesy of the taxpayer and the lucrative new growth employer - the industry of ‘homeless’. Over 350 ‘charities’ paying themselves wages and CEO salaries in Ireland to ‘fix’ this entitled problem.A house for everyone who dosn’t want to work for it - ever - city centre living as as much benefits and illegal activity that you can fit in.

Maybe if we also started insisting on the name of the father on the birth certs again and persuing these fathers fr child upkeep they might be a bit less quick to put their gf’s in the rotunda - DNA testing can prove false allegations quickly now.

nope homeless is the term for people without a roof over their head or in very temporary accommodation.
some will be drug addicts which is a term still used, and others will just be under privilaged which is also a term still used.
none of those people are automatically termed homeless unless they actually fit the actual criteria to be so.
perhapse if the state got off it's arse and actually did the work itself then there wouldn't be a need for so many charities, but it won't do that will it and no doubt you vote for one of the parties who continue it.

JustAThought wrote: »

Not if they move in 10% scrotes, junkies and hardened criminal families in from the ghettos.

Build betsit gulags for them - far far away in a field in the middle of nowhere. No nixers, no handy shops to rob, no hardworking people to terrorise, no streetcrawling and chugging for fix money, no sitting at ATM’s waiting for drunks to exploit, no robbing from shops, no hand cash numbers cleaning to boost up your dole, no childminding cash in hand job for people who work - just 4 walls and a screaming baby to focus on and no way out unless you work. Now there’s a concept. Working to earn your keep and pay your way.

so they aren't going to rob because they are in a field somewhere? yeah right.