Covid 19 in India

Pablo Escobar

humberklog wrote: »

I know it's been a year of looking at graphs and they kinda meld into one big big Groan over Time but this is pretty bloody stark...

Stark, but also a massive understatement.

positron

Ignoring clueless / evil politicians and people who flaunt restrictions for a second, Indians are trying their darn best to control the virus and to stay alive.

For instance, my parents in India got their free vaccine thru their local health center an entire month before my in-laws here in Ireland. My parents and my in-laws are of same age group.

India had a travel quarantine system in place since middle of last year. I've heard stories of immigrant Indians travelling back to India to see their poorly relatives and having to watch the funeral online while sitting in the government run quarantine facilities. They had inter-state travel restrictions for months - with an online system requiring you to get a permission to travel which will in turn be checked at the border etc etc.

However - all of this came with untold amount of misery for the less fortunate of the society as well. We all have heard of stories of internal migrant workers walking thousands of kilometres to reach their village etc when certain states announced lockdowns.

All I am saying is their tried their darned best. And are still trying. There's a limit to how much they can do given how less well off the country is compared to Western nations, and given we are talking about a sixth of humanity, which is really hard to comprehend for regular folks. (A small state in south of India approximately seven times more people than in all Ireland - about the same population as Poland).

Sh1t has hit the fan lately. And the blame is squarely with the Government. They could have done more, and more importantly they could have avoided a lot more of the super-spreader situations. They shouldn't have jumped into "vaccination triumphed" narrative just yet.

Tough situation - not entirely their fault, but some for sure.

DaSilva

salonfire wrote: »

But that's always been the case with India. Why is it just in the past week the infection exploded?

I have a feeling it's due to the mutation and there's no reason to think we are immune to seeing chaos here when the mutation arrives.

People have been blaming mutations/variants for every single outbreak since the variants stole the headlines late last year.

The Kent variant for Christmas/Jan surge here
The Brazilian variant for their surge
The S.African variant for their surge

What about Bergamo back last March/April?
What about Wuhan Last January?
What about Iran?

The variants are just a distraction, this virus has been very capable of causing massive outbreaks since the beginning. What nobody wants to acknowledge because everything is bloody political now, is the role of chance.

RebelButtMunch

India added to the hotel quarantine list

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2021/0430/1213156-mandatory-hotel-quarantine/

salonfire

Going to impact global business and IT operations as well as staff fall ill or are required to look after relatives, including vacinne production.

Barkleys bank in the UK have branch staff taking call centre calls.

I hope it really bites businesses using third world labour firmly in the ass.

JP Liz V1

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

India is the world's largest manufacturer of vaccines, they should have export controls in place until their vulnerable are all treated.

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/health/covid-19-is-out-of-control-in-india-where-most-vaccines-are-made-how-did-that-happen

Yes export while the deaths and cases rise dramatically, I believe we sent over oxygen

positron

I recall seeing some statistics that half of India's vaccine export have been free - to third word nations. The other half has been to countries who can afford to pay - like Saudi Arabia and UK.

Of course AZ vaccine formulation was shared with SII - they didn't develop it themselves - and I think Gates and Melinda foundation paid like 300 million usd or so to SII to get vaccine production up and running, in return of 2 or 3 million doses of vaccines for poorer countries.

Indian Government has introduced some export controls recently but they certainly didn't do any drastic "our own first" - because that would have been very hard for many poorer nations.

wes

RebelButtMunch wrote: »

India added to the hotel quarantine list

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2021/0430/1213156-mandatory-hotel-quarantine/

Took the government long enough. I do honestly wonder what they really are playing at. They have really half assed the hotel quarantine system.

wes

positron wrote: »

I recall seeing some statistics that half of India's vaccine export have been free - to third word nations.

Really? Vaccines are not free in quite a few Indian states, so that is really idiotic if they charge there own people for them.

Also, people can "skip" the line for vaccines, as you can pay for vaccines privately. Few of the Indian guys I work with have done so. Can't blame them, I would do the same in their shoes, but amazing how India is basically gone full capitalist hellscape right now.

VinLieger

RebelButtMunch wrote: »

India added to the hotel quarantine list

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2021/0430/1213156-mandatory-hotel-quarantine/

With the potential for numerous variant mutations in such a large population we should be shut to them entirely.

Wanderer78

Very scary stuff from India alright, apparently many young dying

Graces7

This week we have lost nine of our faith -family folk out there to covid.

They have been there for many years. gathering in the newborns that get abandoned.
They had been going out in the night to check for babies; so many dead and dead children, from covid

Our survivors are now barricaded in with food left outside the gate. Thankfully we still have phone contact .

Cremations in the streets as there is no room elsewhere and bodies in the streets. No farewells. No ceremony.

Scenes are like the worst disaster movie. Apocalyptic. Plague. Some of the drone shots online now are as it is.

And in our modern world much more easily disseminated.

Please take care out there.

Offline a while. We are so blessed here. Take care.

Wanderer78

Graces7 wrote: »

This week we have lost nine of our faith -family folk out there to covid.

They have been there for many years. gathering in the newborns that get abandoned.
They had been going out in the night to check for babies; so many dead and dead children, from covid

Our survivors are now barricaded in with food left outside the gate. Thankfully we still have phone contact .

Cremations in the streets as there is no room elsewhere and bodies in the streets. No farewells. No ceremony.

Scenes are like the worst disaster movie. Apocalyptic. Plague. Some of the drone shots online now are as it is.

And in our modern world much more easily disseminated.

Please take care out there.

Offline a while. We are so blessed here. Take care.

im very sorry grace, best of luck

B.A._Baracus

Watching some of the reports from sky news. It's bleeding sad. This should be the tail-end for covid throughout the world but it doesn't want to go away. Always changing and mutating. It really is a disease on the world.

Also just seen the brave people bringing bodies in ambulances. Some make shift ambulances. This is sad

JP Liz V1

It has surpassed 19 million cases

wadacrack

Insight about the situation in India.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YQdKsLZjmaQ

Seems the government thought they had achieved herd immunity
Patients have to wait 24-48 for ICU
Hospital's running out of oxygen.
Higher death rate than first wave.
Milder cases getting better with early intervention.
Situation unmanageable.
Alot of patients suffering from stroke due to clotting from the virus.
Diabetes very prevalent in the population and this is contributing to severe illness.

wes

Some interesting reading from Arundhati Roy:

‘We are witnessing a crime against humanity’: Arundhati Roy on India’s Covid catastrophe


Far right governments have shown that they can't govern. We seen the turn around in the US, once they got rid of Trump, and the other country that is a disaster zone is Brazil, with their own far right idiot in charge. The far right can't govern and seem to only be good at getting people killed. I hope the world learns from this.

Also, after this Modi and rest of the RSS/BJP leadership need to go to prison, the scale of there failure can't go unpunished. Same for Trump and Bolsanaro imo.

beerguts

The situation in India is very upsetting and my thoughts and prayers go out to all within the subcontinent.
I have genuine questions regarding what is happening in other densely populated countries such as Pakistan and Nigeria. We certainly are not getting the true picture of how bad it is on those places. Would anyone with a primary source be able to give an insight into places in the world where the media is ignoring

bb1234567

Very disturbing what is happening in India. My friend in New Delhi said it's incredibly sad what is happening, there is real desperation for scarce oxygen supplies, and she knows lots of people queuing for hours or days on the streets for hospital treatment.

It is very strange that it has only occurred now though. My friend said last year Indian lockdown was nothing like Ireland or Europe, at the peak of harshest restrictions Indians were still holding weddings of over 100 guests commonly. She said limits on gathering are only being taken seriously now this time round as it's so bad there now. Well they really got away with murder.

Another thing that's strange is how a lot of Asia and Africa seemed to avoid scenes like this occurring , with a few exceptions like South Africa, for most of the pandemic. Really, what's occurring in india is one of the first times that the danger warned of by governments and media worldwide actually very clearly alined with what we can see happening on the ground.

But it has to be said that while the images and footage from india are awful, and not to take away from the tragedy that is unfolding there at all, but the practice of open air cremation pyres ,which looks apocalyptic to us , are actually common form of management of the dead there. Nothing new in COVID, other than the quantity of deaths obviously.

wes

beerguts wrote: »

The situation in India is very upsetting and my thoughts and prayers go out to all within the subcontinent.
I have genuine questions regarding what is happening in other densely populated countries such as Pakistan and Nigeria. We certainly are not getting the true picture of how bad it is on those places. Would anyone with a primary source be able to give an insight into places in the world where the media is ignoring

I have family in Pakistan and Azad Kashmir, it is not as bad as India (for example I know no one in Pakistan who has caught covid, but I know multiple Indian colleagues who have caught covid), but the situation is precarious and things could go either way.

I would recommend https://www.dawn.com/ for news on Pakistan and how things are going. It is an English language publication and provides decent enough coverage.

The major thing will be Eid at the end of Ramadan, people in Pakistan could make the same mistake we did over Christmas and create a super spreader event over Eid, by visiting families and throwing caution the wind. I hope the government locks thing down for the last few days of Ramadan and for Eid, otherwise I fear they could be in the same shoes as India in a few short weeks.

SouthWesterly

positron wrote: »

Ignoring clueless / evil politicians and people who flaunt restrictions for a second, Indians are trying their darn best to control the virus and to stay alive.

For instance, my parents in India got their free vaccine thru their local health center an entire month before my in-laws here in Ireland. My parents and my in-laws are of same age group.

India had a travel quarantine system in place since middle of last year. I've heard stories of immigrant Indians travelling back to India to see their poorly relatives and having to watch the funeral online while sitting in the government run quarantine facilities. They had inter-state travel restrictions for months - with an online system requiring you to get a permission to travel which will in turn be checked at the border etc etc.

However - all of this came with untold amount of misery for the less fortunate of the society as well. We all have heard of stories of internal migrant workers walking thousands of kilometres to reach their village etc when certain states announced lockdowns.

All I am saying is their tried their darned best. And are still trying. There's a limit to how much they can do given how less well off the country is compared to Western nations, and given we are talking about a sixth of humanity, which is really hard to comprehend for regular folks. (A small state in south of India approximately seven times more people than in all Ireland - about the same population as Poland).

Sh1t has hit the fan lately. And the blame is squarely with the Government. They could have done more, and more importantly they could have avoided a lot more of the super-spreader situations. They shouldn't have jumped into "vaccination triumphed" narrative just yet.

Tough situation - not entirely their fault, but some for sure.

Modhi held election rally with thousands of people. Festivals on the ganges allowed to go on.

Not entirely sensible moves by the government.
I've friends in andra pradesh and kerala. The situation is horrendous.
A friends sister in law got Covid while in hospital for surgery. Now the whole family has it. Thankfully they have access to oxygen

We'll never know the true numbers in India. Its impossible to social distance in the villages and there are untold numbers of villages which are inaccessible and due to caste don't really matter.

bb1234567

bb1234567 wrote: »

Very disturbing what is happening in India. My friend in New Delhi said it's incredibly sad what is happening, there is real desperation for scarce oxygen supplies, and she knows lots of people queuing for hours or days on the streets for hospital treatment.

It is very strange that it has only occurred now though. My friend said last year Indian lockdown was nothing like Ireland or Europe, at the peak of harshest restrictions Indians were still holding weddings of over 100 guests commonly. She said limits on gathering are only being taken seriously now this time round as it's so bad there now. Well they really got away with murder.

Another thing that's strange is how a lot of Asia and Africa seemed to avoid scenes like this occurring , with a few exceptions like South Africa, for most of the pandemic. Really, what's occurring in india is one of the first times that the danger warned of by governments and media worldwide actually very clearly alined with what we can see happening on the ground.

But it has to be said that while the images and footage from india are awful, and not to take away from the tragedy that is unfolding there at all, but the practice of open air cremation pyres ,which looks apocalyptic to us , are actually common form of management of the dead there. Nothing new in COVID, other than the quantity of deaths obviously.

Age profile is a big part of it. Most of Africa is a good bit younger. India would be a lot older than Pakistan as well.

Graces7

Just dropped by to thank folk for kindness and good wishes; it means more than I can say. This has hit us like a ten ton truck. We cannot get our people out and we cannot get anyone in to them and now our usual food supply lines are lines are in jeopardy.

One word re the quote below. We have been decades in India so yes we know re open air cremations. Which is indeed common practice in a hot country where disease spreads f ast as a hygiene matter. But Always before in the crematoriums That yes is the normality to which we are all accustomed.
And with due respect and ceremony.

Now the very streets are filled with them, row upon row of burning bodies, as sheer numbers exceed anything previous ; and yes, apocalyptic in the sheer numbers of the dead. The air is thick with smoke of them. And yes, this scale is new in covid. Anonymous . No names. Just the dead being burnt.

As the scenes from Brazil of acre on acre of new stark graves as far as the eyes can see; takes the breath away with the sheer weight of suffering and grief

This is tragedy on a scale not previously experienced . Always some dead newborns but this is utter tragedy and not over Totally out of control. Plague .

New in covid as is the sheer numbers of dead babies and little ones. We are in a poor area. Not being able to honour the dead.

Reminds of the Famine Fever years here but then they buried in mass graves. Far worse is this than the Famine years.

Not heard yet today from our people. We have lost so many dear to us. Like our neighbours.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

"But it has to be said that while the images and footage from india are awful, and not to take away from the tragedy that is unfolding there at all, but the practice of open air cremation pyres ,which looks apocalyptic to us , are actually common form of management of the dead there. Nothing new in COVID, other than the quantity of deaths obviously.[/QUOTE]"

Jim_Hodge

Deleted User wrote: »

Age profile is a big part of it. Most of Africa is a good bit younger. India would be a lot older than Pakistan as well.

The age profiles for India and Pakistan are almost identical.


India has huge wealth and spends billions on nuclear arms and space projects while hospitals are run on a shoestring and basics like oxygen is not available. That such a wealthy nation relies on foreign charity is mind numbingly sad.

McGiver

Few comments from me. Family in India, been there many times, know the situation, landscape, culture, politics etc.

The situation is bad...

Official number is 200k deaths. Absolutely not. Anyone who knows/studies India knows that it's an order of magnitude off. Poor governance, politics, poverty, culture all contribute to underreporting.

Academic estimates are 5 fold higher, but in India you never know, could be more.

So basically 1 million deaths is a decent estimate. That is indeed a catastrophe, but what is worse is that we're now in the first part of the hyperbolic curve with this wave, the spread will accelerate with the massive population density, vaccination is way too slow due to complexity, decentralisation, poor governance and sheer population, will take years to get to a herd immunity % of vaccinated. Sadly, I think it will get much worse.

BJP and Modi are in a campaign mode and playing politics to score points - systematic underreporting in BJP held states/areas to show "good results", BJP election rallies going on etc. Absolutely disgraceful. Modi should be jailed for crime against humanity and genocide.

How bad it can get? The 1943 Bengali famine, 3 million people died in a span of a year, largely thanks to the politics too (UK colonial administration).

biko

200.000 dead is 0.016% of the population.
Considering how crowded their cities are they will probably see many more dead unfortunately.

I heard they have been trying to use Ivermectin so maybe that will help.
India is also the largest vaccine producer in the world.

Britain have banned them from UK for now, I hope Ireland will also. The Indian variant sounds very bad.

growleaves

wes wrote: »

Some interesting reading from Arundhati Roy:

‘We are witnessing a crime against humanity’: Arundhati Roy on India’s Covid catastrophe


Far right governments have shown that they can't govern. We seen the turn around in the US, once they got rid of Trump, and the other country that is a disaster zone is Brazil, with their own far right idiot in charge. The far right can't govern and seem to only be good at getting people killed. I hope the world learns from this.

Also, after this Modi and rest of the RSS/BJP leadership need to go to prison, the scale of there failure can't go unpunished. Same for Trump and Bolsanaro imo.

Brazil has the same deaths per million as Peru, which locked down very tightly.

Obsessive left vs. right partisan politics is why Trump, Bolsanaro etc. are singled out.

Also funny how people who take everything the Chinese government says at face value, even when it doesn't make any sense, now accuse India of lying and suppressing mortality figures by 5x or 10x.

Please at least stop saying things like "If only we had a real lockdown like China, who had 5 cases out of 2 billion people" its embarrassing.

UrbanFret

This frolicking in the Ganges a few weeks back was hardly going to help.

biko

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/world/asia/india-coronavirus-cases.html

drunkmonkey

Deleted User wrote: »

Age profile is a big part of it. Most of Africa is a good bit younger. India would be a lot older than Pakistan as well.

Experience helps as well look at Uganda for example, robust tracing already in place, used to hygiene like washing your hands, they've home made drugs for early intervention. They're hardly any deaths a few hundred from a population of 44 million. They're another country the WHO isn't recommending they keep do what they're doing when it comes to treatments. https://www.afro.who.int/news/ebola-response-bolsters-ugandas-covid-19-fight