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The social housing list in Dublin

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    #512
    yoke
    Registered Users Posts: 527 ✭✭✭yoke


    I think there’s a conflation of issues in peoples heads here.

    When people are acting the maggot, they should be brought before the law, and the law should actually be able to give punishments which affect the criminal appropriately so as to act as a future deterrent.

    The above has nothing to do with social housing.

    If someone threw a brick and it hit my car, I would not give a **** if the prick lived in a council house or a private house, I’d want them reprimanded so they never did it again, among other things


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    #513
    maccored
    Registered Users Posts: 10,666 ✭✭✭✭maccored


    Deleted User wrote: »
    To be fair, Leo got in the door last time on his promise to take care of the people who get up early in the morning.


    It's always been promised that the working man and woman will get taken care of. It's just never actually realised.

    as i say - we continue (collectively as a voter base) to vote in idiots


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    #514
    maccored
    Registered Users Posts: 10,666 ✭✭✭✭maccored


    tom1ie wrote: »
    Pay per more= there's more money in the system to be spent, thus companies selling (or REITS for example) have more scope to make more money.
    Stop giving people more money and address costs.
    Lower HAP so that rents arent kept artificially high.
    Give more money to people and we end up in an inflation spiral.

    eh?

    A business should cut its cloth. don't employ more staff than it can afford to pay, and pay a liveable wage rather than pumping that money into profits.


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    #515
    TomTomTim
    Registered Users Posts: 2,841 ✭✭✭TomTomTim


    yoke wrote: »
    I think there’s a conflation of issues in peoples heads here.

    When people are acting the maggot, they should be brought before the law, and the law should actually be able to give punishments which affect the criminal appropriately so as to act as a future deterrent.

    The above has nothing to do with social housing.

    If someone threw a brick and it hit my car, I would not give a **** if the prick lived in a council house or a private house, I’d want them reprimanded so they never did it again, among other things

    But statistically the person in the council house is more likely to commit said act. Some would even argue that it's a product of a lifestyle that the state facilitates, so it is relevant. If the state didn't hand out resources like they meant nothing, the council house living, brick thrower might be forced to live an honest life.

    “The man who lies to himself can be more easily offended than anyone else. You know it is sometimes very pleasant to take offense, isn't it? A man may know that nobody has insulted him, but that he has invented the insult for himself, has lied and exaggerated to make it picturesque, has caught at a word and made a mountain out of a molehill--he knows that himself, yet he will be the first to take offense, and will revel in his resentment till he feels great pleasure in it.”- ― Fyodor Dostoevsky, The Brothers Karamazov




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    #516
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    TomTomTim wrote: »
    But statistically the person in the council house is more likely to commit said act. Some would even argue that it's a product of a lifestyle that the state facilitates, so it is relevant. If the state didn't hand out resources like they meant nothing, the council house living, brick thrower might be forced to live an honest life.

    Really?
    You do of course have statistics to prove that a crime is more likely to be committed by someone living in social housing?
    It would be interesting to see those statistics.
    Otherwise your rant is just snobbish prejudiced rubbish.


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    #517
    Jinglejangle69
    Registered Users Posts: 7,448 ✭✭✭Jinglejangle69


    bubblypop wrote: »
    Really?
    You do of course have statistics to prove that a crime is more likely to be committed by someone living in social housing?
    It would be interesting to see those statistics.
    Otherwise your rant is just snobbish prejudiced rubbish.

    Ah come on now.

    You're not actually making this point with a serious head on you!:)

    Or are you!????


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    #518
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Jinglejangle69 wrote: »
    Ah come on now.

    You're not actually making this point with a serious head on you!:)

    Or are you!????

    Are you serious?
    Do you really believe that crimes are more likely committed by social tenants?
    You should get out in the real world


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    #519
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 14,344 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    bubblypop wrote: »
    Are you serious?
    Do you really believe that crimes are more likely committed by social tenants?
    You should get out in the real world

    You've not a notion of the real world, it would seem.

    Go through the courts section on a few local papers and read the addresses. More often than not it's the social estates. Or if you're from the area the paper is based in, you'll recognise the name of the people themselves.

    It's almost always the same people, from the same areas, causing the same problems, with the same outcome (slap on the wrist).


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    #520
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    You've not a notion of the real world, it would seem.

    Go through the courts section on a few local papers and read the addresses. More often than not it's the social estates. Or if you're from the area the paper is based in, you'll recognise the name of the people themselves.

    It's almost always the same people, from the same areas, causing the same problems, with the same outcome (slap on the wrist).

    I have plenty of knowledge of the real world thanks and a lot more experience of the courts then reading a few court results in the papers!
    If you can show statistics that day a crime is more likely to have been committed by someone living in social housing, I would be glad to read them.
    Otherwise, it's just snobbery and prejudice.


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    #521
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 14,344 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    bubblypop wrote: »
    I have plenty of knowledge of the real world thanks and a lot more experience of the courts then reading a few court results in the papers!
    If you can show statistics that day a crime is more likely to have been committed by someone living in social housing, I would be glad to read them.
    Otherwise, it's just snobbery and prejudice.


    Oh great, what experience do you have? I spent years as a professional photojournalist that hung out in courts a lot.


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    #522
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    Oh great, what experience do you have? I spent years as a professional photojournalist that hung out in courts a lot.

    I prosecute people


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    #523
    WrenBoy
    Registered Users Posts: 1,614 ✭✭✭WrenBoy


    bubblypop wrote: »
    I prosecute people

    Any chance you'd pop over to Longford ?


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    #524
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    bubblypop wrote: »
    Really?
    You do of course have statistics to prove that a crime is more likely to be committed by someone living in social housing?
    It would be interesting to see those statistics.
    Otherwise your rant is just snobbish prejudiced rubbish.

    Grew up in a council housing estate, two actually, left there in 2001..
    20 years later I still read the courts section, know nearly all the names on same weekly, offspring that were born then and since are now making their debut weekly in the courts section..


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    #525
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    Grew up in a council housing estate, two actually, left there in 2001..
    20 years later I still read the courts section, know nearly all the names on same weekly, offspring that were born then and since are now making their debut weekly in the courts section..

    I grew up in social housing too, all my life. In two different countries.
    I have over 23 years experience dealing with crime.
    Just because some people from social housing are involved in criminality does not mean that a crime is more likely to have been committed by social tenants.
    You cannot show any proof and it's lazy stereotypical snobby prejudice.


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    #526
    lazygal
    Registered Users Posts: 12,644 ✭✭✭✭lazygal


    Mrs OBumble wrote: »
    Whether the OP lives there or not, the attitude that People Should Not Have THINGS on The Balcony is quite strange. The whole point if a balcony is outdoor space which people can use.

    I live near this development and pass it every day. The stuff on the balconies doesn't bother me a jot. Nor should me keeping our bikes in the front garden of our house bother anyone.


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    #527
    Gloomtastic!
    Registered Users Posts: 8,501 ✭✭✭Gloomtastic!


    lazygal wrote: »
    I live near this development and pass it every day. The stuff on the balconies doesn't bother me a jot. Nor should me keeping our bikes in the front garden of our house bother anyone.

    I saw an armchair out on a balcony this morning. :D


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    #528
    lazygal
    Registered Users Posts: 12,644 ✭✭✭✭lazygal


    Gloomtastic! wrote: »
    I saw an armchair out on a balcony this morning. :D

    It's been there a while!


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    #529
    zerosugarbuzz
    Registered Users Posts: 1,224 ✭✭✭zerosugarbuzz


    bubblypop wrote: »
    Really?
    You do of course have statistics to prove that a crime is more likely to be committed by someone living in social housing?
    It would be interesting to see those statistics.
    Otherwise your rant is just snobbish prejudiced rubbish.

    Interesting study here https://www.iprt.ie/site/assets/files/6264/position_paper_final.pdf from the Irish Ppenal Reform Trust.

    I'm quite surprised anyone is surprised that more crime is committed in deprived areas. Traditionally in Ireland most deprived areas are social housing estates. Its always been that way with Crime, far more of the prison population coming from Dublin 1 than Dublin 4 ect.


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    #530
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    zerosugarbuzz wrote: »
    I'm quite surprised anyone is surprised that more crime is committed in deprived areas. Traditionally in Ireland most deprived areas are social housing estates. Its always been that way with Crime, far more of the prison population coming from Dublin 1 than Dublin 4 ect.

    I think we are all aware how easy it is for people growing up in social deprivation to fall into crime. It could happen to anyone.
    Saying that a crime is obviously committed by people living in social housing, is completely different, lazy prejudiced thinking.

    Tarring all social tenants as criminals based on their address, is just wrong.


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    #531
    zerosugarbuzz
    Registered Users Posts: 1,224 ✭✭✭zerosugarbuzz


    bubblypop wrote: »
    I think we are all aware how easy it is for people growing up in social deprivation to fall into crime. It could happen to anyone.
    Saying that a crime is obviously committed by people living in social housing, is completely different, lazy prejudiced thinking.

    Tarring all social tenants as criminals based on their address, is just wrong.

    Obviously, maybe I joined this thread too late and didn't get the gist of the conversation.


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    #532
    Jinglejangle69
    Registered Users Posts: 7,448 ✭✭✭Jinglejangle69


    bubblypop wrote: »
    I think we are all aware how easy it is for people growing up in social deprivation to fall into crime. It could happen to anyone.
    Saying that a crime is obviously committed by people living in social housing, is completely different, lazy prejudiced thinking.

    Tarring all social tenants as criminals based on their address, is just wrong.

    Ah now you've changed your tune.

    You initially said that "a crime is more likely to be committed by social housing tenants" is a lie.

    Now you've changed it to "saying a crime is obviously committed by social housing tenants is lazy prejudiced thinking"

    Noone tarred social tenants with the same brush.

    You've twisted the original point.


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    #533
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    bubblypop wrote: »
    I think we are all aware how easy it is for people growing up in social deprivation to fall into crime. It could happen to anyone.
    Saying that a crime is obviously committed by people living in social housing, is completely different, lazy prejudiced thinking.

    Tarring all social tenants as criminals based on their address, is just wrong.

    Correct me if I am wrong but I don't anyone said all social housing tenants are criminals, my mother and grandmother would be criminals so.
    No, what I had said is that the courts section is always filled with people I know who live in social housing.


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    #534
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Jinglejangle69 wrote: »
    Ah now you've changed your tune.

    You initially said that "a crime is more likely to be committed by social housing tenants" is a lie.

    Now you've changed it to "saying a crime is obviously committed by social housing tenants is lazy prejudiced thinking"

    Noone tarred social tenants with the same brush.

    You've twisted the original point.

    No.
    Maybe go back and read it again.
    Saying 'a crime' is likely to have been committed by a person living in social housing is wrong.


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    #535
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    Correct me if I am wrong but I don't anyone said all social housing tenants are criminals, my mother and grandmother would be criminals so.
    No, what I had said is that the courts section is always filled with people I know who live in social housing.

    That doesn't mean that 'a crime ' is likely to have been committed by someone living in social housing.


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    #536
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    bubblypop wrote: »
    That doesn't mean that 'a crime ' is likely to have been committed by someone living in social housing.

    It actually does.
    The writing is in there in black and white.
    Search any newspaper in the country, the courts sections are filled with people majority from social housing estates.
    You don't need to be prejudiced to say this or ignorant. Some of my best friends come from these estates. It's just the way it is.


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    #537
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    It actually does.
    The writing is in there in black and white.
    Search any newspaper in the country, the courts sections are filled with people majority from social housing estates.
    You don't need to be prejudiced to say this or ignorant. Some of my best friends come from these estates. It's just the way it is.

    The courts reports in the papers are from district courts, mainly small offences like public order and road traffic offences.
    Everyone in the country can be in front of a judge for road traffic offences!
    Just because you recognise some of the estates in those reports proves nothing.
    You do know that people purchase social houses yeah?
    People living in private rented accommodation played for by the state are exactly the same as social tenants in social housing, where do they fit?

    There maybe other reasons as to why people from middle class backgrounds do not appear to be in district court as much, such as money.
    People paying off injured parties is very common, if some drunk rich kid damages your car when he is pissed and acting the maggot, there is far more chance that his father will pay for the damage, he will come and apologise, you will let it go.

    A poster said he didn't care where someone lived if he threw a.rock through his window, another poster then claimed the rock thrower would probably be from a council house. That is not true and there is nothing to say that it is, it is prejudiced and snobbish.


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    #538
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    bubblypop wrote: »
    The courts reports in the papers are from district courts, mainly small offences like public order and road traffic offences.
    Everyone in the country can be in front of a judge for road traffic offences!
    Just because you recognise some of the estates in those reports proves nothing.
    You do know that people purchase social houses yeah?
    People living in private rented accommodation played for by the state are exactly the same as social tenants in social housing, where do they fit?

    There maybe other reasons as to why people from middle class backgrounds do not appear to be in district court as much, such as money.
    People paying off injured parties is very common, if some drunk rich kid damages your car when he is pissed and acting the maggot, there is far more chance that his father will pay for the damage, he will come and apologise, you will let it go.

    A poster said he didn't care where someone lived if he threw a.rock through his window, another poster then claimed the rock thrower would probably be from a council house. That is not true and there is nothing to say that it is, it is prejudiced and snobbish.

    Your points look good but they do not prove any point, the point being that more crime is committed by people that live in social housing estates. People on HAP are usually mixed in with private estates and I don't know the figures, not could I be bothered looking, but I presume less influence from the lack of peers can play a big role in keeping those people out of the courts until such a time they get a forever home and then may go down the wrong route due to peer pressure etc. People living in social housing buy thier own homes, I'm well aware of that, what point are u trying to make?
    I don't just read local papers, and I'd say the rich kids who get in trouble are few and far between and dont rack up 50 plus sometimes 100s of convictions like the guys I grew up with.
    Where I lived there were murders and horrific crimes. I seen it on the streets I lived it, its real and its worse now. And crimes are definitely committed more by people living in social housing.


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    #539
    20/20
    Registered Users Posts: 710 ✭✭✭20/20


    Gloomtastic! wrote: »
    I saw an armchair out on a balcony this morning. :D

    Did you see the fancy brass work.


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    #540
    20/20
    Registered Users Posts: 710 ✭✭✭20/20


    bubblypop wrote: »
    What is the problem exactly?
    Do you live in the development?
    This reads like seeing clothes dry is somehow offending you.........

    I do not live in the development.
    Most apartments do not allow clothes on a balcony, especially on a very nice major road.
    People would be offended passing the development and looking up at Rab C Nesbitt drying his clothes.

    A lot of the property's on the road may be worth a million. The residents paid a lot of money to live there and a lot in taxes. Those taxes are now been used to subsidize social housing on their doorsteps.
    You can debate all you want with USERNAME2020 about crime and social housing, but one thing very clear to me over the last month is lots of social housing tenants do not like to follow rules.


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    #541
    suicide_circus
    Registered Users Posts: 19,802 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Correct me if I am wrong but I don't anyone said all social housing tenants are criminals, my mother and grandmother would be criminals so.
    No, what I had said is that the courts section is always filled with people I know who live in social housing.
    bubblypop wrote: »
    That doesn't mean that 'a crime ' is likely to have been committed by someone living in social housing.
    Deleted User wrote: »
    It actually does.

    Haha, as if there were any doubt.


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