The social housing list in Dublin

thegetawaycar

Wanderer78 wrote: »

this is wishy washy fantasy land stuff, we do not live on a planet of equal opportunities and abilities, some humans simply cannot afford to cover all of their housing needs, some in fact, never will, because this is our reality

It's fantasy because society allows it to be, I never said everyone will be able to cover all their housing needs, I said in Dublin city it should be used for the workers that need to be their but can't afford to and those on disability with 10% outside of that.

You've not disputed anything I said but instead just said it's fantasy.

We will never build enough social housing to cater for the demand in Dublin(as I said). The focus should be on affordable housing and the state being the last resort.

Wibbs

cgcsb wrote: »

Not too fussed about their nationality per say. If a nurse from the Philippines wants to come here and work as a nurse for €24k p/a and requires social housing in the form of a small one bed or studio flat at a low rent (300-400 p/m) to do that then I'm 100% happy for the state (my taxes) to provide that, we need migrant labour no matter what way you look at it and we can only supply that if living here is affordable.

A nurse from the Philippines is not the issue. They will be qualified and working people who came to this country legally. They wouldn't be among the number of chancers who showed up here illegally, working in the black market, not paying taxes, who are apparently now reframed as undocumented and are to be welcomed and made legitimate by our justice minister, including getting on social housing lists. 17,000 of them. Though watch that number climb when this nonsense gets the green light with nary an objection. No doubt family reunification will be brought to bear too. Watch the baby passport loophole this nation's electorate rejected and closed be reopened by the back door too.

Wanderer78

thegetawaycar wrote: »

It's fantasy because society allows it to be, I never said everyone will be able to cover all their housing needs, I said in Dublin city it should be used for the workers that need to be their but can't afford to and those on disability with 10% outside of that.

You've not disputed anything I said but instead just said it's fantasy.

We will never build enough social housing to cater for the demand in Dublin(as I said). The focus should be on affordable housing and the state being the last resort.

housing is a critical need for all, as is maintaining some element of social cohesion, in order to do that, its best to provide adequate accommodation for all, including the local unemployed.

its clearly obvious, that the model of largely relying on the market to provide these needs, has completely failed, the only way around this is a significant reliance on the state to do it, and it can, and should. theres actually nothing stopping the state from stepping in here, providing the necessary elements needed, in particular the finances required, as we already have a decent private sector that can do the work. we re just stuck in some childish ideological battle, thats completely preventing this from happening, while now, its negatively impacting nearly every bit of our society and economy

jimmycrackcorm

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

The situation isn't ideal but it seems most people are happy to keep voting for the same parties so nothing is going to change. Best to just live your life as well as you can and not worry about who's getting this housing.

It's down to local councils to actually provide social housing but they're the very ones who are on the other hand objecting to developments and applying restrictions.

NAMA offered SDCC a huge block of over 500 apartments for social housing. They only took 65.

One of the councillors who turned down the block is none other than the Sinn Fein housing spokesman more recently in the news for objecting to development in Blanchardstown.

"Ó Broin says that the council, at the time, felt that it could use money from central government to buy units elsewhere. However, this money was not forthcoming. While there is now money available to councils, he doesn’t believe it is enough."

So don't expect voting in the opposition will change things.

DCC are equally as bad at objecting to developments, each party's representatives seem to compete on demonstrating how they favour nimbys over a housing crisis.

jrosen

Wasnt there a decision made that large scale social housing developments are not what we should be working towards and a more integrated system is better for society as a whole?
I think we should be helping those who help themselves, if you are able bodied you should be working. I have no issue with someone who is working but perhaps in a low paying job having access to social housing. I fundamentally believe if you are paying for something you will respect it more.

Wanderer78

jrosen wrote: »

Wasnt there a decision made that large scale social housing developments are not what we should be working towards and a more integrated system is better for society as a whole?
I think we should be helping those who help themselves, if you are able bodied you should be working. I have no issue with someone who is working but perhaps in a low paying job having access to social housing. I fundamentally believe if you are paying for something you will respect it more.

in order to be able to work, you must be able both physically and mentally!

Geuze

suicide_circus wrote: »

Whats the mean industrial wage? Average is pretty meaningless in this context

Mean industrial earnings = 47,104

https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/er/elca/earningsandlabourcostsannualdata2019/

Mean FT earnings = 48,946

Tusky

Nationality is irrelevant. If they are living and working here and qualify for supports, they should get them. In general, immigrants are more likely to be employed than Irish people and less likely to be involved in crime and anti-social behaviour. You can be sure that the many Irish people living abroad all over the world are availing of whether supports they are entitled to.

riclad

Half the shop workers and hotel workers are immigrants ,our economy needs young workers to keep certain industrys active.
the problem is we need 20k housing units built every year ,we are not even close to that no of units being built right now

Wanderer78

riclad wrote:

Half the shop workers and hotel workers are immigrants ,our economy needs young workers to keep certain industrys active. the problem is we need 20k housing units built every year ,we are not even close to that no of units being built right now

Many studies are actually showing, we need considerable more than that

thegetawaycar

Wanderer78 wrote: »

housing is a critical need for all, as is maintaining some element of social cohesion, in order to do that, its best to provide adequate accommodation for all, including the local unemployed.

its clearly obvious, that the model of largely relying on the market to provide these needs, has completely failed, the only way around this is a significant reliance on the state to do it, and it can, and should. theres actually nothing stopping the state from stepping in here, providing the necessary elements needed, in particular the finances required, as we already have a decent private sector that can do the work. we re just stuck in some childish ideological battle, thats completely preventing this from happening, while now, its negatively impacting nearly every bit of our society and economy

Again, 90% of social housing in DCC should be for people working there or on disability. 10% of the housing allocation is more than enough for layabouts in the city centre. If you are a member of the long term won't work community then you have no need to be housed in the city centre.

There is too much reliance on the state to provide it, you saying they can do it does not make you correct, we don't have developers, brick layers etc... working for the state so we are reliant on the private sector to build the housing. If the private sector say they will only build at cost plus 10/15% then that's what we have to pay.

The state are literally using whole brand new developments for social housing at the moment (one example https://bartra.ie/divisions/social-housing/) meaning those that actually want to buy a property are being priced out. There is little to no point having the people that need to be in the city centre for work having to commute from Kildare, Portlaoise etc... when we are housing a huge number with no reason to be in the city at the expense of the taxpayer.

You say the state have the finances, we are running a huge deficit and will very soon be looking to raise taxes/cut expenses to claw back the Covid expenses. The large tech companies can only prop us up for so long if there is nowhere for their workers to live at a decent price, close to work and safe.

Our house prices are extortionate, first time buyers are up against the bidding power of the state and state funded charities for the limited builds that do come to market, allow more of the housing in desirable areas go to market (and tax leaving them vacant) and the price will drop. Keep putting more and more social housing where people want to buy and prices will continue to rise as the supply is being hoovered up by those not needing to be there.

Wanderer78

thegetawaycar wrote: »

Again, 90% of social housing in DCC should be for people working there or on disability. 10% of the housing allocation is more than enough for layabouts in the city centre. If you are a member of the long term won't work community then you have no need to be housed in the city centre.

There is too much reliance on the state to provide it, you saying they can do it does not make you correct, we don't have developers, brick layers etc... working for the state so we are reliant on the private sector to build the housing. If the private sector say they will only build at cost plus 10/15% then that's what we have to pay.

The state are literally using whole brand new developments for social housing at the moment (one example https://bartra.ie/divisions/social-housing/) meaning those that actually want to buy a property are being priced out. There is little to no point having the people that need to be in the city centre for work having to commute from Kildare, Portlaoise etc... when we are housing a huge number with no reason to be in the city at the expense of the taxpayer.

You say the state have the finances, we are running a huge deficit and will very soon be looking to raise taxes/cut expenses to claw back the Covid expenses. The large tech companies can only prop us up for so long if there is nowhere for their workers to live at a decent price, close to work and safe.

Our house prices are extortionate, first time buyers are up against the bidding power of the state and state funded charities for the limited builds that do come to market, allow more of the housing in desirable areas go to market (and tax leaving them vacant) and the price will drop. Keep putting more and more social housing where people want to buy and prices will continue to rise as the supply is being hoovered up by those not needing to be there.

you have decided to be judge, jury and executor, you need to get over yourself here, long term unemployment is highly complex.

again, the main reason for our seriously dysfunctional property markets is the fact we keep defaulting to allowing the fire sectors(finance, insurance and real estate), dictate our economy, and their primary goal is to continually push up property and land prices.....

once again, we also need to get over this fear of running deficits, as they are just simply the public entity of the money supply, by not running deficits, we default to the only other method of increasing the money supply, i.e. the private sector, in the form of credit, causing credit fueled booms, and subsequent busts, as we have done in the past!

donaghs

tom1ie wrote: »

We need immigration to fund our pensions going forward.
We welcome integrated immigration otherwise the economy doesn’t work.

Immigrants that pay taxes firstly.

Secondly, you don't see a flaw in the maths? As the populations grows you'll need ever more children or immigrants to pay ever more pensions. Mad that you still hear this nonsense spouted on the radio and tv.

From a wider climate and resources perspective, the world needs less people.
Just look at the graph.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_population

Shebean

Stop paying through the nose to private landlords. Social housing should be owned by ourselves.
We need housing. It's only right those who can't afford housing get help, working or sick etc.
If you're sick you need be near hospitals. If you're unemployed you need be near work. If you are working, you need be near work.
Just because the housing situation is in a jocker doesn't mean we create ghettos in the middle of nowhere.
If a foreigner is allowed in they should be treated exactly the same as anyone else. It's about society and people not creating sub groups and discriminating.

Hamachi

Tusky wrote: »

In general, immigrants are more likely to be employed than Irish people and less likely to be involved in crime and anti-social behaviour. You can be sure that the many Irish people living abroad all over the world are availing of whether supports they are entitled to.

Can you point to credible stats that support these assertions? Can you also partition them into EU vs. non-EU?

That’s two huge claims to make with seemingly zero evidence. From data I’ve seen, EU migrants are more likely to be employed than native Irish by a few % points. However, the employment rates for some African nationals is appallingly low. From memory, the employment rate for Nigerians is ~45% and for Congolese < 40%.

If you’re going to throw out assertions like that, please back it up with data.

Hamachi

riclad wrote: »

our economy needs young workers to keep certain industrys active.

This fallacy is parroted repeatedly on Boards. The reason why certain industries tend to be staffed by foreigners is due to the low wages paid by unscrupulous employers. Pay a decent wage and you’ll attract native workers.

Ireland does not need ‘young workers’. If you knew anything about demographics, you’d know that Ireland has the youngest age profile in the EU. 22% of the population is under 18 and our birthrate is touching replacement level.

What we need are skilled workers who migrate here legally to take up positions in tech and healthcare. We do not need an influx of indiscriminate ‘young people’; the cohort of immigrants currently populating the social housing list are also surplus to requirements.

Not having a personal dig at you, but I wish people would educate themselves a little on this matter before repeatedly throwing out the same nonsense on these threads.

ThunbergsAreGo

Apologies if this has been raised but in 2026 census there were 100 to 1000 Bosnians (total inc kids) in Ireland.

236 are on a single CC Social Housing list.

Something doesn't smell right....

Wanderer78

ThunbergsAreGo wrote: »

Apologies if this has been raised but in 2026 census there were 100 to 1000 Bosnians (total inc kids) in Ireland.

236 are on a single CC Social Housing list.

Something doesn't smell right....

something burning maybe?

Ronaldinho

ThunbergsAreGo wrote: »

Apologies if this has been raised but in 2026 census there were 100 to 1000 Bosnians (total inc kids) in Ireland.

236 are on a single CC Social Housing list.

Something doesn't smell right....

Why do you say that?

ThunbergsAreGo

Ronaldinho wrote: »

Why do you say that?

Its just an incredibly concentration. Allowing for family maybe 50 percent of all Bosnians in Ireland are on the SCD social housing list

Taxpayer taken for a ride, cheered on by the media and all parties.

Must be soul destroying trying to buy a house in Ireland at the moment

ThunbergsAreGo

Wanderer78 wrote: »

something burning maybe?

Toast, had it on the high setting

Ronaldinho

ThunbergsAreGo wrote: »

Its just an incredibly concentration. Allowing for family maybe 50 percent of all Bosnians in Ireland are on the SCD social housing list

Taxpayer taken for a ride, cheered on by the media and all parties.

Must be soul destroying trying to buy a house in Ireland at the moment

Totally agree on the latter two points but wouldn't surprise me, personally, that a community would form in a local area like that.

Smart move anyhow - good list to be on.

Galwayguy35

bubblypop wrote: »

You do know people born outside of Ireland can be Irish

They can become Irish citizens but will never be Irish.

Wanderer78

ThunbergsAreGo wrote: »

Toast, had it on the high setting

any how, burnt toast really is a cnut!

our housing mess is beyond complicated, its affecting nearly every aspect of our society and economy now at this stage

ThunbergsAreGo

Wanderer78 wrote: »

any how, burnt toast really is a cnut!

our housing mess is beyond complicated, its affecting nearly every aspect of our society and economy now at this stage

I had a larger post written but it seems to have been deleted for some reason?

It a very complicated situation and build more in the exact same manner as before seems unlikely to be either an answer, or have an end point especially as it's no longer an Irish only problem.

Its just going to grow and grow.

Hamachi

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

They can become Irish citizens but will never be Irish.

Not to go OT, but I think the reference here is people like Ronan O’Gara (born in San Diego), Saoirse Ronan (born in New York) and the thousands of UK-born folks who have two Irish parents and relocate back to Ireland.

Jizique

Hamachi wrote: »

This fallacy is parroted repeatedly on Boards. The reason why certain industries tend to be staffed by foreigners is due to the low wages paid by unscrupulous employers. Pay a decent wage and you’ll attract native workers.

Ireland does not need ‘young workers’. If you knew anything about demographics, you’d know that Ireland has the youngest age profile in the EU. 22% of the population is under 18 and our birthrate is touching replacement level.

What we need are skilled workers who migrate here legally to take up positions in tech and healthcare. We do not need an influx of indiscriminate ‘young people’; the cohort of immigrants currently populating the social housing list are also surplus to requirements.

Not having a personal dig at you, but I wish people would educate themselves a little on this matter before repeatedly throwing out the same nonsense on these threads.

Surly the cohort of immigrants on the housing list will be delighted to work for the likes of Kealings on the seasonal fruit harvest - perhaps they should be given extra points to move up the list if they do so?

Mr. teddywinkles

Jizique wrote: »

Surly the cohort of immigrants on the housing list will be delighted to work for the likes of Kealings on the seasonal fruit harvest - perhaps they should be given extra points to move up the list if they do so?

Paying our pensions. Jaysus has the thought occured. I'm paying me own fooking pension.
Even if Iv fook all at the end of it. The kealings boys are paying some income tax here. And some amount of vat too. Being seasonal in all that you know.

Hamachi

Mr. teddywinkles wrote: »

Paying our pensions. Jaysus has the thought occured. I'm paying me own fooking pension.

I know. The immigrants paying your pension trope cracks me up. Here’s a tip - work hard and contribute to your own pension fund.

It also assumes that immigrants have these magical properties that prevents them from aging. These arguments are so well worn at this point that they’re almost threadbare..

Lucy8080

Hamachi wrote: »

I know. The immigrants paying your pension trope cracks me up. Here’s a tip - work hard and contribute to your own pension fund.

It also assumes that immigrants have these magical properties that prevents them from aging. These arguments are so well worn at this point that they’re almost threadbare..

"Your own pension fund"..? I would have a think about that claim. You may find it is not entirely within your own gift.