The social housing list in Dublin

Hamachi

Lucy8080 wrote: »

"Your own pension fund"..? I would have a think about that claim. You may find it is not entirely within your own gift.

I’ve thought about it.

As an able-bodied, cognitively sound adult, it’s not within your own wheelhouse to set up and contribute to a pension plan yourself?

Lucy8080

Hamachi wrote: »

I’ve thought about it.

As an able-bodied, cognitively sound adult, it’s not within your own wheelhouse to set up and contribute to a pension plan yourself?

I think you have missed the point. "Your" pension plan , and the money you contribute to it over "your" lifetime, is in the hands of people/ forces outside "your" control.

I don't want to mention "that whole Mirror Pension fund area...", imagine if we lived in times when banks folded in the last decade and some mad auld global public health scare was knocking about... actually don't imagine such things...they may make you worry about "your" pension.

Hamachi

Lucy8080 wrote: »

I think you have missed the point. "Your" pension plan , and the money you contribute to it over "your" lifetime, is in the hands of people/ forces outside "your" control.

I don't want to mention "that whole Mirror Pension fund area...", imagine if we lived in times when banks folded in the last decade and some mad auld global public health scare was knocking about... actually don't imagine such things...they may make you worry about "your" pension.

None of which is an excuse for people failing to plan for their own futures and falling back to the tired old cliche that immigrants are required to fund their retirement.

Fact is that EU immigrants are net contributors and do add to the social coffers. However, many only remain in Ireland for a finite time. Non-EU immigrants are a net drain on the nation. The UCL longitudinal study in the UK found that the balance for non-EU migrants was -£159 billion over the lifetime of the study.

Of course we can’t control for GFCs or pandemics. My point is that as an adult, you should be doing what you can to bullet proof your own future. This old trope of immigrants funding pensions is at best a way of absolving personal responsibility and at worst just plain wrong.

Lucy8080

Hamachi wrote: »

None of which is an excuse for people failing to plan for their own futures and falling back to the tired old cliche that immigrants are required to fund their retirement.

Fact is that EU immigrants are net contributors and do add to the social coffers. However, many only remain in Ireland for a finite time. Non-EU immigrants are a net drain on the nation. The LSE longitudinal study in the UK found that the balance for non-EU migrants was -£129 billion over the lifetime of the study.

Of course we can’t control for GFCs or pandemics. My point is that as an adult, you should be doing what you can to bullet proof your own future. This old trope of immigrants funding pensions is at best a way of absolving personal responsibility and at worst just plain wrong.

We used to be a net drain on the E.U. Now we contribute. Is it possible ,if your investments go tits up, that workers in Ireland will be "bullet- proofing" your old age?

Will you give tuppence-halfpenny if they came from somewhere else?

Hamachi

Lucy8080 wrote: »

We used to be a net drain on the E.U. Now we contribute. Is it possible ,if your investments go tits up, that workers in Ireland will be "bullet- proofing" your old age?

Will you give tuppence-halfpenny if they came from somewhere else?

Did you read my post? It was a ‘longitudinal’ study i.e. the outcome has persisted over a significant period of time. Do you have evidence to suggest it will change or is this just another ‘Hail Mary’ that everything will be grand?

Why are you reverting to an unlikely catastrophic scenario? As a stable democracy, Ireland is likely to do reasonably well over the medium to long term. Most Irish people are well educated, capable people who are planning for their own futures and retirements. Engineer for the norm, not the edge case.

Actually, yes I do give a ‘tuppence-halfpenny’ whatever that means, about the future demographics of this country. I have two young kids and will possibly have more. I’d like them to grow up in a country that remains cohesive and is recognizably Irish.

PalLimerick

KungPao wrote: »

I'd also say, give the newer builds with their fancy solar panels on the roof to people who contribute to society, instead of suck it dry.

No job, never worked, 7 kids? We have a BER G built in the 70s, in x bad area. Some mould and the likes, but that's the best we can do for you.

Unfortunately for you and fortunate for the applicants it, doesn't work that way, never has and never will.

And I don't have 7 Kids, nor am I unemployed so I'm not offended.

Lucy8080

Hamachi wrote: »

Did you read my post? It was a ‘longitudinal’ study i.e. the outcome has persisted over a significant period of time. Do you have evidence to suggest it will change or is this just another ‘Hail Mary’ that everything will be grand?

Why are you reverting to an unlikely catastrophic scenario? As a stable democracy, Ireland is likely to do reasonably well over the medium to long term. Most Irish people are well educated, capable people who are planning for their own futures and retirements. Engineer for the norm, not the edge case.

Actually, yes I do give a ‘tuppence-halfpenny’ whatever that means, about the future demographics of this country. I have two young kids and will possibly have more. I’d like them to grow up in a country that remains cohesive and is recognizably Irish.

What is the timeline of this "longitudinal" study? I would hope that we as a nation were not judged on the first 50 years since partition. A "longitudinal study" might have written us off too.

Hamachi

Lucy8080 wrote: »

What is the timeline of this "longitudinal" study. I would hope that we as a nation were not judged on the first 50 years since partition. A "longitudinal study" might have written us off too.

Google it. You can find the details yourself.

Can you get back on topic and discuss why such a high % of the social housing list in Dublin is comprised of non-Irish people? In the 2016 census,17% of Dublin’s population was born abroad. Non-Irish are ~100% over-represented on the social housing lists.

Why is that? Are you relying on these folks to fund your pension Lucy?

Lemon Davis lll

tom1ie wrote: »

Why?

Because for the 'import an immigrant' pensions model to even kind of work, you'd end up requiring new arrivals in such large numbers, that population strain alone would render the whole exercise complete madness.

This may come as news to some, but immigrants grow old at the same rate as the rest of us and would require their pension claims to be serviced too.

The associated net cost of providing welfare and services (and witnessing what'd be left of our social cohesion dive-bombing off a cliff) would be wilfully reckless and economically nonsensical for any government to countenance.

Lucy8080

Hamachi wrote: »

Google it. You can find the details yourself.

Can you get back on topic and discuss why such a high % of the social housing list in Dublin is comprised of non-Irish people? In the 2016 census,17% of Dublin’s population was born abroad. Non-Irish are ~100% over-represented on the social housing lists.

Why is that? Are you relying on these folks to fund your pension Lucy?

Immigrants , in countries everywhere, tend to start out on the bottom of the ladder. Usually inner -city rough spots or social housing.

We are all reliant on each other.

Lucy8080

Hamachi wrote: »

Google it. You can find the details yourself.

Would you not just give me the answer , seeing as it was yourself who introduced it as an argument?

Hamachi

Lucy8080 wrote: »

Immigrants , in countries everywhere, tend to start out on the bottom of the ladder. Usually inner -city rough spots or social housing.

We are all reliant on each other.

Which is why Denmark now has a target of zero asylum seekers. Immigrants were absorbing so much of their social housing capacity, they simply couldn’t cope and their social model was under strain.

Can’t you see how these numbers see Ireland trending in a similar direction?

Hamachi

Lucy8080 wrote: »

Hamachi wrote: »

Google it. You can find the details yourself.

Would you not just give me the answer , seeing as it was yourself who introduced it as an argument?

I’m not your data mule Lucy. Run a quick Google search.

Lucy8080

Hamachi wrote: »

Google it. You can find the details yourself.

In the 2016 census,17% of Dublin’s population was born abroad.

I /my family down the generations before me, were born in Ireland. My two oldest siblings were born abroad in the fifties. Seven of my nieces and nephews were born abroad.

Emigration (by their parents) would put those kids in the 17% on an official form.

Lucy8080

Hamachi wrote: »

Lucy8080 wrote: »

I’m not your data mule Lucy. Run a quick Google search.

Would it harm your argument? G'wan , show us your study!

Hamachi

Lucy8080 wrote: »

I /my family down the generations before me, were born in Ireland. My two oldest siblings were born abroad in the fifties. Seven of my nieces and nephews were born abroad.

Emigration (by their parents) would put those kids in the 17% on an official form.

17% non-Irish / non-national / foreign. Now can you hypothesize as to what’s driving the 100% over-representation on the the social housing list Lucy?

dhaughton99

19 extra houses SDCC were built 2 years ago beside us.

6 Black
1 Bosnian
1 Indian
11 Home grown with includes 2 traveler families.

Guess who’s already causing problems in the area.

Hamachi

Lucy8080 wrote: »

Hamachi wrote: »

Would it harm your argument? G'wan , show us your study!

This comes back to my argument of self-sufficiency and self-reliance Lucy. You really should give it a try love!

EddieN75

dhaughton99 wrote: »

19 extra houses SDCC were built 2 years ago beside us.

6 Black
1 Bosnian
1 Indian
11 Home grown with includes 2 traveler families.

Guess who’s already causing problems in the area.

Black?

Don't keep us in suspense!

clytemnestra

Don't forget those social housing list stats will be skewed by the fact that many arrivals (especially those from DP in the last 20 years) will have got Irish citizenship so won't show up as being non-Irish. The reality is far higher - I'm not going to out my exact location but I can point to recently built social housing developments that are majority non-EU people who don't work. And there is no end to it. Anyone who is being breezy and dismissive about this - can't you see the wider effect this has on the social contract, the trust people have in taxation and distribution of resources? People are fed up enough about the tax burden on low and middle income workers, and the native multigenerational welfare class they're supporting. It's much much worse when the people they're supporting are total strangers from 1000s of miles away, people who by and large contribute very little.

Lucy8080

dhaughton99 wrote: »

19 extra houses SDCC were built 2 years ago beside us.

6 Black
1 Bosnian
1 Indian
11 Home grown with includes 2 traveler families.

Guess who’s already causing problems in the area.

Hamachi might have some statistical data on that question. If you can find it...

Hamachi

clytemnestra wrote: »

Don't forget those social housing list stats will be skewed by the fact that many arrivals (especially those from DP in the last 20 years) will have got Irish citizenship so won't show up as being non-Irish. The reality is far higher - I'm not going to out my exact location but I can point to recently built social housing developments that are majority non-EU people who don't work. And there is no end to it. Anyone who is being breezy and dismissive about this - can't you see the wider effect this has on the social contract, the trust people have in taxation and distribution of resources? People are fed up enough about the tax burden on low and middle income workers, and the native multigenerational welfare class they're supporting. It's much much worse when the people they're supporting are total strangers from 1000s of miles away, people who by and large contribute very little.

Good point.

But don’t forget, we’re all in it together!

Hamachi

Lucy8080 wrote: »

Hamachi might have some statistical data on that question. If you can find it...

Or I could just spout some bland platitudes backed up by zero data like you Lucy.

Can you get back on topic now and discuss the issue at hand?

Mike Murdock

dhaughton99 wrote: »

19 extra houses SDCC were built 2 years ago beside us.

6 Black
1 Bosnian
1 Indian
11 Home grown with includes 2 traveler families.

Guess who’s already causing problems in the area.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and highlight who is causing the problem....

Lucy8080

Hamachi wrote: »

Or I could just spout some bland platitudes backed up by zero data like you Lucy.

Can you get back on topic now and discuss the issue at hand?

Still not showing us this data you made claim too, no?

dhaughton99

Mike Murdock wrote: »

I'm going to go out on a limb here and highlight who is causing the problem....

Although one of the blacks sons is dealing from the house, you kind of don’t care when you have to put up with our ethic brothers wrecking the place on quads and the usual carry one.

Hamachi

Lucy8080 wrote: »

Still not showing us this data you made claim too, no?

UCL: Center for research and analysis of migration.

Study title: The fiscal effects of immigration to the UK.

Time period: 1995-2011.

Net cost to the UK exchequer of all migrants: £-114 - £-159 billion sterling.

Note: That figure includes the net positive of + £22 billion sterling attributed to EEA migrants.

Hamachi

Lucy8080 wrote: »

Still not showing us this data you made claim too, no?

See below. Like I said Lucy, self-reliance. An alien concept to some it would appear.

Lucy8080

Hamachi wrote: »

UCL: Center for research and analysis of migration.

Study title: The fiscal effects of immigration to the UK.

Time period: 1995-2011.

Net cost to the UK exchequer of all migrants: £-114 - £-159 billion sterling.

Note: That figure includes the net positive of + £22 billion sterling attributed to EEA migrants.

So ,a sixteen year study. Like I said earlier, a Fifty year study on us, post partition, would not have given our future prospects a snowballs chance in hell .

Hamachi

Lucy8080 wrote: »

So ,a sixteen year study. Like I said earlier, a Fifty year study on us, post partition, would not have given our future prospects a snowballs chance in hell .

So still no hypothesis as to the root cause of that 100% over-representation on the social housing list?

Still no data to back up any assertions?

Never mind, we’re all in it together aren’t we Lucy?