Relaxation of Restrictions, Part XI *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

Silentcorner

Silentcorner wrote: »

All of which has nothing to do with the crowds back in the stadiums which was the context of the discussion that you slipped that snide comment into....

The context of the discussion was Ireland making our own choice and not being subject to uefa ultimatums

Silentcorner

gozunda wrote: »

It is yeah. Hungary has approx 3 times our death rate despite using the Russian vaccine. A country which is now subject to an unlimited rule by decree and where people can be jailed for wrong think. A real alpha country alright.

And yet they have enjoyed a lot more civil liberties than we have here...

Sobit1964

gozunda wrote: »

It is yeah. Hungary has approx 3 times our death rate despite using the Russian vaccine. A country which is now subject to an unlimited rule by decree and where people can be jailed for wrong think. A real alpha country alright.

Dahm, I hear they even send grannies to jail for not wearing facemasks or paying tributes to the party media outlet. Rumour has it you can be thrown into military jail for not being from an approved location, and that attempts to leave will see you turned around and hit with stiff penalties.

That place sounds like a real alpha hellhole alright.

Coillte_Bhoy

niallo27 wrote: »

What about Denmark, Germany, Hungary, Italy, the Netherlands, Romania, Spain, Azerbaijan, England, Russia and Scotland.

Ah yeah fair enough i suppose

paddyisreal

All the other countries are wrong...
Outdoor dining - last country to open in the world !
Euros - only country not able to host
Antigen testing - only country in Europe to have a health service against them .
Masks - while every other country were using them we were told they weren't needed because we couldnt use them properly , sounds a bit familiar regarding the antigen testing doesn't it ?

At the end of the day, a bunch of over paid spoofers (nphet and the government ) who are afraid to make a decision ..

prunudo

normanoffside wrote: »

Tony is 52 or 53

Really, the pressures of being cmo haven't been kind to him. Would easily have put him in his 60s

paddyisreal

prunudo wrote: »

Really, the pressures of being cmo haven't been kind to him. Would easily have put him in his 60s

Look at all the dictators down through history they all look older than they are !

This thread never fails to amuse. Keep it up, lads.

gozunda

Responder XY wrote: »

On the basis that everyone else has arrived at a different conclusion with the same set of circumstances.

Let's not fool ourselves and think that the Irish Public Health team are uniquely better than the public health experts in the rest of Europe

Well yes I'd agree - individual countries approaches to managing the pandemic have varied widely

But no I don't believe that "Irish Public Health team are uniquely better than the public health experts in the rest of Europe"

But that said we've done fairly well all the same. That could all just be a fluke of course ...

https://i.imgflip.com/5dek78.jpg

Richard Hillman

gozunda wrote: »

It is yeah. Hungary has approx 3 times our death rate despite using the Russian vaccine. A country which is now subject to an unlimited rule by decree and where people can be jailed for wrong think. A real alpha country alright.

You mean a country where one guy decides how everyone lives and what freedoms you have and if you protest against it or ignore the rules, they'll send the police force out to shut it down.

Yeah, mate. I know all about it.

zackory

gozunda wrote: »

That could all just be a fluke of course ...

Or it could be credited to the people following restrictions when they were necessary and warranted, like in January and perhaps February. Restrictions I don't think anybody on here disputed.

But the endless "slow and cautious" since March, I don't see what gains were achieved there.

gozunda

Richard Hillman wrote: »

You mean a country where one guy decides how everyone lives and what freedoms you have and if you protest against it or ignore the rules, they'll send the police force out to shut it down.
Yeah, mate. I know all about it.

Do you mean the evil 'Tony' much beloved of this thread? Or Hungary’s Prime Minister Viktor Orbán (where the death rate is 3x here) - whose political best mate is China's President Xi Jinping - that other bastion of democracy and personal freedom?

Timmy O Toole

Interesting numbers. 46k caravans in 1 month.

https://twitter.com/MlMcNamaraTD/status/1404844458873606148?s=19

Sobit1964

gozunda wrote: »

Do you mean the evil 'Tony' much beloved of this thread? Or Hungary’s Prime Minister Viktor Orbán (where the death rate is 3x here) - whose political best mate is China's President Xi Jinping - that other bastion of democracy and personal freedom?

Orbans best political mate is China? Really? You live in some odd fantasy world.

Lets go further - Im assuming that China is bad from your post, but in our liberal democracies using their lockdown methods is a good thing according to your never ending stream of guff on this thread.

Its amazing you manage to deal with this level of cognitive dissonance.

JRant

gozunda wrote: »

Well yes I'd agree - individual countries approaches to managing the pandemic have varied widely

But no I don't believe that "Irish Public Health team are uniquely better than the public health experts in the rest of Europe"

But that said we've done fairly well all the same. That could all just be a fluke of course ...

https://i.imgflip.com/5dek78.jpg

Half a million people out of work, over 1 million people on waiting lists for hospital appointments, yeah, it was a roaring success.

Severe restrictions on peoples lives for prolonged periods of time is not something we should be giving ourselves a pat on the back for.

Boggles

JRant wrote: »

Half a million people out of work, over 1 million people on waiting lists for hospital appointments, yeah, it was a roaring success.

Severe restrictions on peoples lives for prolonged periods of time is not something we should be giving ourselves a pat on the back for.

Restrictions are a mitigation measure which invariable send less people to hospital.

Is it your contention that we could have decreased hospital waiting list times with less restrictions?

suicide_circus

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/education/revealed-grim-toll-of-the-covid-19-pandemic-onour-children-40544749.html

Ombudsman for children talking of the brutal impact of the pandemic on children. No sorry, the disease was pretty much harmless to children. It was the calculated decision to follow a policy of lengthy blanket lockdowns that has hit children. We cannot allow the waters to be muddied on this one.

zackory

Deleted User wrote: »

And it was relevant because to the thread because we decided as a country they we weren’t going to base our decisions on uefa ultimatums

So all the other countries imploded in the face of UEFA ultimatums and brave Ireland stood up to them.

pjohnson

suicide_circus wrote: »

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/education/revealed-grim-toll-of-the-covid-19-pandemic-onour-children-40544749.html

Ombudsman for children talking of the brutal impact of the pandemic on children. No sorry, the disease was pretty much harmless to children. It was the calculated decision to follow a policy of lengthy blanket lockdowns that has hit children. We cannot allow the waters to be muddied on this one.

Then why are you muddying them?

Boggles

suicide_circus wrote: »

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/education/revealed-grim-toll-of-the-covid-19-pandemic-onour-children-40544749.html

Ombudsman for children talking of the brutal impact of the pandemic on children. No sorry, the disease was pretty much harmless to children. It was the calculated decision to follow a policy of lengthy blanket lockdowns that has hit children. We cannot allow the waters to be muddied on this one.

The mad thing about children is they virtually all live with other people.

It's traditionally called a family.

suicide_circus

What in my post is wrong?

zackory

zackory wrote: »

So all the other countries imploded in the face of UEFA ultimatums and brave Ireland stood up to them.

Other countries make their own decisions for their own reasons. We should not be embarrassed because we decided in April that we could not give guarantees for June. Those who are embarrassed by it need to take along hard look at themselves and their chronic insecurities, as no one else gives a sh*t what we chose to do

zackory

Boggles wrote: »

The mad thing about children is they virtually all live with other people.

It's traditionally called a family.

Well done for figuring that out.

zackory

Deleted User wrote: »

Other countries make their own decisions for their own reasons. We should not be embarrassed because we decided in April that we could not give guarantees for June. Those who are embarrassed by it need to take along hard look at themselves and their chronic insecurities, as no one else gives a sh*t what we chose to do

You are right, we bravely and courageously stood up to UEFA when every other country capitulated to their ultimatum.

suicide_circus

zackory wrote: »

You are right, we bravely and courageously stood up to UEFA when every other country capitulated to their ultimatum.

We're sort of heros really...

zackory

zackory wrote: »

You are right, we bravely and courageously stood up to UEFA when every other country capitulated to their ultimatum.

Is reading comprehension an issue? Other people made their own decisions for their own reasons, which are no doubt nuanced and varied

zackory

suicide_circus wrote: »

We're sort of heros really...

No doubt about it, as we watch other countries party at the Euro's we can look on proud of the fact that we were brave and courageous enough to stand up to UEFA.

Our finest hour.

JRant

Boggles wrote: »

Restrictions are a mitigation measure which invariable send less people to hospital.

Is it your contention that we could have decreased hospital waiting list times with less restrictions?

Is your contention that it's okay to have over 1 million people on waiting lists?

robbiezero

suicide_circus wrote: »

We're sort of heros really...

The city that fought an empire (from under the bed)

Boggles

JRant wrote: »

Is your contention that it's okay to half over 1 million people on waiting lists?

No it's horrendous, but this the bulk of that occurred before Covid.

Now if you could actually answer my question I'd appreciate it.

Is it your contention that we could have decreased hospital waiting list times with less restrictions?

the kelt

suicide_circus wrote: »

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/education/revealed-grim-toll-of-the-covid-19-pandemic-onour-children-40544749.html

Ombudsman for children talking of the brutal impact of the pandemic on children. No sorry, the disease was pretty much harmless to children. It was the calculated decision to follow a policy of lengthy blanket lockdowns that has hit children. We cannot allow the waters to be muddied on this one.

To be fair the restrictions taken were necessary, we cannot argue that really, it was and is what it is, but one line stood out for me.

The U-turns and constant speculation compounded their anxiety, leaving them feeling exposed and unheard,”

That wasn’t necessary, the speculation and kite flying of uncertainty wasn’t a necessary response to the pandemic and imho caused the most frustration amongst people I’ve spoken to.

niallo27

Deleted User wrote: »

Is reading comprehension an issue? Other people made their own decisions for their own reasons, which are no doubt nuanced and varied

Yes but when every other country is making a different choice to you, do you not think to yourself, hang on why are we so different. If it was 60-40 or even 80-20 you could ignore it but we are they only country to say no.

JRant

Boggles wrote: »

No it's horrendous, but this the bulk of that occurred before Covid.

Now if you could actually answer my question I'd appreciate it.

Because we had a long waiting list before restrictions it's okay then to just keep adding to it with ever increasing numbers then?

Makes perfect sense.

Boggles

JRant wrote: »

Because we had a long waiting list before restrictions it's okay then to just keep adding to it with ever increasing numbers then?

Makes perfect sense.

No it's not "okay". But again you are avoiding the question.

I'll try once more.

Is it your contention that we could have decreased hospital waiting list times with less restrictions?

While you ponder whether you'll answer or not.

I read a piece in the BMJ recently that one of the main reasons elective surgeries were cancelled throughout Europe was because anesthetists were redeployed to ICUs and Covid wards, apparently one of their areas of expertise is airway mechanics.

Now that was good for the patient, but not so good for anesthetists because they were at the cold front i.e. airways is where the virus is shed.

This of course lead naturally to a shortage of anesthetists because of redeployment and of course being off sick, or isolating.

suicide_circus

the kelt wrote: »

To be fair the restrictions taken were necessary, we cannot argue that really, it was and is what it is, but one line stood out for me.

The U-turns and constant speculation compounded their anxiety, leaving them feeling exposed and unheard,”

That wasn’t necessary, the speculation and kite flying of uncertainty wasn’t a necessary response to the pandemic and imho caused the most frustration amongst people I’ve spoken to.

I'm perfectly willing to concede that lockdowns in some form were necessary and we can argue about the levels of lockdowns and specifics but to suggest it was the pandemic that hit kids is a falsehood. It was the manner in which we chose to deal with the pandemic.

niallo27

niallo27 wrote: »

Yes but when every other country is making a different choice to you, do you not think to yourself, hang on why are we so different. If it was 60-40 or even 80-20 you could ignore it but we are they only country to say no.

I still see Bilbao has ceased to exist

robbiezero

niallo27 wrote: »

Yes but when every other country is making a different choice to you, do you not think to yourself, hang on why are we so different. If it was 60-40 or even 80-20 you could ignore it but we are they only country to say no.

Prepare for a "Yes Prime Minister" answer.

"Nuance, variance, interdepartmental committee, in the fullness of time" etc.

Graham

niallo27 wrote: »

Yes but when every other country is making a different choice to you

The same could be said of any country.

Every country is making different choices.

JRant

Boggles wrote: »

No it's not "okay". But again you are avoiding the question.

I'll try once more.



While you ponder whether you'll answer or not.

I read a piece in the BMJ recently that one of the main reasons elective surgeries were cancelled throughout Europe was because anesthetists were redeployed to ICUs and Covid wards, apparently one of their areas of expertise is airway mechanics.

Now that was good for the patient, but not so good for anesthetists because they were at the cold front i.e. airways is where the virus is shed.

This of course lead naturally to a shortage of anesthetists because of redeployment and of course being off sick, or isolating.

If one takes a very narrow view of the COVID response to say we've done fairly well then I think it's only appropriate to highlight some of the areas were we have done fairly badly.

Try all you want but I'm not getting into a debate with you on something I didn't say. If you show me where I said we should have reduced waiting lists I'll take a stab at it.

Silentcorner

I'd recommend a watch of this video, he covers the issue of Ivermectin well, he has been covering it for some time now...

Between Antigen tests, Ivermectin and high vaccine take up we should never be placed in any kind of lock down ever again....

Whatever about the first lock down, you could argue we should never have seen a second lock down, let alone a 7 and a half month one!!!

There is also a chance youtube will take this video down so it probably won't be there in a few days.

zackory

Graham wrote: »

The same could be said of any country.

Every country is making different choices.

In case you missed it they all made the same choice - to host games.

Only Ireland said no.

Boggles

JRant wrote: »

If one takes a very narrow view of the COVID response to say we've done fairly well then I think it's only appropriate to highlight some of the areas were we have done fairly badly.

Indeed, but an appropriate mature analysis would look at it all in context.

JRant wrote: »

Try all you want but I'm not getting into a debate with you on something I didn't say. If you show me where I said we should have reduced waiting lists I'll take a stab at it.

Sure.

As Glynn said right there, they are responsible for public health. I think allowing waiting lists to double over 12 months and cancelling thousands of procedures while simultaneously locking down the country for prolonged periods is a complete and abject failure

They have completely failed to protect the health care system. Waiting lists are off the charts amd that's just the start of it. Everything non COVID has been ignored

So in your own good time.

zackory

Deleted User wrote: »

I still see Bilbao has ceased to exist

Is Bilbao a country now?

Graham

zackory wrote: »

In case you missed it they all made the same choice - to host games.

Only Ireland said no.

Good

Next

is_that_so

Silentcorner wrote: »

I'd recommend a watch of this video, he covers the issue of Ivermectin well, he has been covering it for some time now...

Between Antigen tests, Ivermectin and high vaccine take up we should never be placed in any kind of lock down ever again....

Whatever about the first lock down, you could argue we should never have seen a second lock down, let alone a 7 and a half month one!!!

Just as one could argue we should also see posters not linking to this individual ever again!

zackory

Graham wrote: »

Good

Next

Great contribution there. Well done.

Silentcorner

is_that_so wrote: »

Just as one could argue we should also see posters not linking to this individual ever again!

Why because he is dishonest????

He has been methodical in how he presents his data, and he is completely unbiased and apolitical....

zackory

zackory wrote: »

Is Bilbao a country now?

They make their own public health decisions.

And Euro 2020 was awarded to cities. not countries

Graham

zackory wrote: »

Great contribution there. Well done.

Yeah, sorry I can't get my knickers knotted about refusing to let a sporting body dictate our pandemic response.

I can quite honestly say I'm not the last bit bothered they went somewhere else. In fact quite the opposite. I'm glad they did.

I'd say for most of the population it ranks fairly high on the who-gives-a-s**t-ometer (a handful present here excluded obv.).

is_that_so

Silentcorner wrote: »

Why because he is dishonest????

He has been methodical in how he presents his data, and he is completely unbiased and apolitical....

He has his own agenda, Ivermectin and Vitamin D amongst them, is not a medical doctor and from my very brief exposure to him offers little more than cursory analysis. There are many other better sources, including posters here, but each to their own.