Relaxation of Restrictions, Part XI *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

Graham

Graham wrote: »

Yeah, sorry I can't get my knickers knotted about refusing to let a sporting body dictate our pandemic response.

I can quite honestly say I'm not the last bit bothered they went somewhere else. In fact quite the opposite. I'm glad they did.

I'd say for most of the population it ranks fairly high on the who-gives-a-s**t-ometer (a handful present here excluded obv.).

I would prefer if we could have judged ourselves able to host the event when being pushed to do so two months ago, but we couldn't, and rightfully so. It wasn't a priority. We would likely have judged it more of a priority had we qualified. But we didn't. So we moved on.

Graham

Deleted User wrote: »

So we moved on.

Not all of us apparently.

niallo27

Deleted User wrote: »

I still see Bilbao has ceased to exist

You do know Bilbao is not a country, are Spain hosting a game. Are we the only country or not.

niallo27

Graham wrote: »

The same could be said of any country.

Every country is making different choices.

Ya I understand that but when it comes to this decision every other country said yes and we said no. Its simple as that.

paddyisreal

I wonder what Dr Tony will say this morning to defend their antigen testing phobia like their refusal to approve masks last year because people were just to stupid to use them only to change their mind in the following months. Expect the same denial bull**** today out if him only to do a roundabout turn in the next few weeks

Graham

niallo27 wrote: »

You do know Bilbao is not a country, are Spain hosting a game. Are we the only country or not.

So you're saying we're not the only ones to refuse to adjust our pandemic response to to a sporting body.

ok

niallo27

Graham wrote: »

So you're saying we're not the only ones to refuse to adjust our pandemic response to to a sporting body.

ok

We are the only country, are you saying any other country said no.

Tork

I see the final isn't until 11th July. So are we facing into the best part of a month of repetitive "Oh look at that big crowd in X, Tony will **** in his pants" posts?

zackory

Graham wrote: »

Not all of us apparently.

People watch sporting event on TV, people discuss said event on the internet. Shocker.

seamus

niallo27 wrote: »

Ya I understand that but when it comes to this decision every other country said yes and we said no. Its simple as that.

The beauty of sovereignty.

What's most amusing is the majority of people getting their knickers in a twist about this are the same who'd be going mental if Ireland followed the lead of other EU countries for other decisions. It's only on this occasion that somehow exercising self-determination is a bad thing.

growleaves

Wimbledon finals are scheduled to have full capacity next month.

Boggles

Tork wrote: »

I see the final isn't until 11th July. So are we facing into the best part of a month of repetitive "Oh look at that big crowd in X, Tony will **** in his pants" posts?

I just feel sorry for the people on here that have declared they will watch every game raging with embarrassment.

That much sustained blood redirection can't be good.

Graham

niallo27 wrote: »

We are the only country, are you saying any other country said no.

No, (although we're not the only ones to refuse to crumble.

What I'm saying is I honestly, really and truly don't care.

It went somewhere else, great. Let them have the risk.

Meanwhile back in our real world; the vaccination program progresses, outdoor dining/drinking is being enjoyed and our next phase of relaxations don't look as if they're under threat.

niallo27

Good piece on antigen testing this morning on newstalk on how they pick up a person being infectious rather than if they have had it in the last week or two like a pcr test does. Isn't this what we want to pick up, it's the old we are too thick to use them argument again from nphet

zackory

Tork wrote: »

I see the final isn't until 11th July. So are we facing into the best part of a month of repetitive "Oh look at that big crowd in X, Tony will **** in his pants" posts?

No the tournament will be cancelled by then due to onset of the worst wave yet across Europe and we can all laugh at them and applaud Tony.

niallo27

niallo27 wrote: »

You do know Bilbao is not a country, are Spain hosting a game. Are we the only country or not.

Deleted User wrote: »

They make their own public health decisions.

And Euro 2020 was awarded to cities. not countries

.

Graham

zackory wrote: »

No the tournament will be cancelled by then due to onset of the worst wave yet across Europe and we can all laugh at them and applaud Tony.

I doubt that either

Silentcorner

Tork wrote: »

I see the final isn't until 11th July. So are we facing into the best part of a month of repetitive "Oh look at that big crowd in X, Tony will **** in his pants" posts?

Well, there have been crowds in stadiums since last January in different parts of the world...

This time, the crowds at games are being broadcast into our sitting rooms every evening....

It does make things a little awkward doesn't it...I mean, if a guy was on the fence about our Governments pace of easing the restrictions, more and more people will turn on our politicians....public support for these draconian restrictions is vital.

zackory

Boggles wrote: »

I just feel sorry for the people on here that have declared they will watch every game raging with embarrassment.

The only problem with that statement is that nobody made any such declaration.

paddyisreal

Tony on masks....

Back then, Dr Holohan and others trotted out a litany of reasons why face masks would be an ineffective measure for the general public.

We were told, for instance, that people could become contaminated by handling face masks inappropriately, that people wouldn't wear the properly, that they weren't as air tight as medical grade face masks and so would not contain the virus, that many people for a variety of reasons, including medical reasons, may not be able to tolerate them and shouldn't be asked to wear them.

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2020/1127/1180984-face-masks/

Tony on antigen testing.

Dr Holohan said: "I'm very concerned about these tests. Supermarkets are free to sell what they sell, but it's what could happen.

"People are generally confused about antigen tests, and we think it has a role to play in our response but in strictly controlled circumstances where we know it's going to work and what the result could mean. Individuals could get inappropriate reassurance that they're safe when they're not.

"Someone could go into the supermarket and buy a pound of sausages and charcoal for a BBQ, as well as a test. That represents a real risk.

https://www.dublinlive.ie/news/dublin-news/dr-tony-holohan-warns-against-20549443


What a Spoofer, basically substitute mask with antigen testing and people tell us he's not a control freak

zackory

Deleted User wrote: »

We would likely have judged it more of a priority had we qualified. But we didn't. So we moved on.

So we would make decisions relating to the management of the pandemic based on a soccer teams performance.

TomSweeney

https://twitter.com/thelovelymaeve/status/1399248889782362113?s=20

I posted this yesterday, why was it deleted ?
I think it shows a mentality of some out there, "The Pandemic rages on" What kind of mindset do you need to be in to say that ?

zackory

Deleted User wrote: »

They make their own public health decisions.

And Euro 2020 was awarded to cities. not countries

I had a little read and it looks like the game could have been played in Bilbao, with fans, but the local protocols would have made it difficult, so the Spanish FA just moved it elsewhere in Spain.

You are comparing apples and oranges here.

The strict health protocols in the Basque region that have been set out as a pre-requisite by the local government to allow supporters in the stands have been described by the RFEF as unrealistic.

The RFEF said last week they would offer Seville's La Cartuja stadium as an alternative venue for Euro 2020 matches should Bilbao be stripped of its games - something that has not impressed organisers in Bilbao.

"It is clear that the unilateral decision taken by UEFA and the attitude of the current RFEF are not shared by the Basque institutions organising the event at San Mames," the statement said.

zackory

zackory wrote: »

So we would make decisions relating to the management of the pandemic based on a soccer teams performance.

People have priorities. We made schools a priority for example.

TomSweeney

TomSweeney wrote: »

https://twitter.com/thelovelymaeve/status/1399248889782362113?s=20

I posted this yesterday, why was it deleted ?
I think it shows a mentality of some out there, "The Pandemic rages on" What kind of mindset do you need to be in to say that ?

This is the one where you accused them of making it up and that they had mental health problems?

gozunda

Sobit1964 wrote: »

Orbans best political mate is China? Really? You live in some odd fantasy world.

Lets go further - Im assuming that China is bad from your post, but in our liberal democracies using their lockdown methods is a good thing according to your never ending stream of guff on this thread.

Its amazing you manage to deal with this level of cognitive dissonance.

The same and more could be said regarding your comments todate. But let's keep this out of the sewer just for the moment.

Re China and Hungary. A very misinformed comment on your part. And not me saying that btw. Here's just one example. And if you choose not to like that one- there are many more.

https://www.politico.eu/article/orban-taunts-germany-by-doubling-down-on-support-for-china/

Regarding Covid I don't think anyone will be giving China a slap on the back just yet all things considered...

robbiezero

I wouldn't mind the Euro 2020 stuff if it was in isolation, but everything we do is the slowest child in the class. 2400 into Croke Park this weekend is a joke. Each family will almost have a whole section to themselves.
Another useless box ticking exercise that will prove nothing. Should be 10K allowed at the very least and at least 5K allowed into the regional stadiums and this could have been done a month ago.

niallo27

robbiezero wrote: »

I wouldn't mind the Euro 2020 stuff if it was in isolation, but everything we do is the slowest child in the class. 2400 into Croke Park this weekend is a joke. Each family will almost have a whole section to themselves.
Another useless box ticking exercise that will prove nothing. Should be 10K allowed at the very least and at least 5K allowed into the regional stadiums and this could have been done a month ago.

That's exactly it, we know whats coming.

OwenM

TomSweeney wrote: »

https://twitter.com/thelovelymaeve/status/1399248889782362113?s=20

I posted this yesterday, why was it deleted ?
I think it shows a mentality of some out there, "The Pandemic rages on" What kind of mindset do you need to be in to say that ?

Because it is misleading I'm guessing, needs context and without that context it is alarmist. Your friends are in Bahrain and Bahrain are using Sinovac which has shown approx 50% efficacy.

growleaves

Orban is a mirage. Obviously he's not liberal but nor is he a 'patriotic Christian' dissident as he portrays himself to those people in the West who are disenchanted with political liberalism.

Hungary is a vaccine-apartheid state and some prominent epidemiologists in that country have gone off the deep end, claiming that unvaccinated people should be killed. Masks must be worn everywhere in public spaces at all times.

TomSweeney

Deleted User wrote: »

This is the one where you accused them of making it up and that they had mental health problems?

Wouldn't surprise me if it's made up, there is some vital info being left out, there is no way a fully vaccinated healthy adult would end up in ICU over covid.

Must be something they aren't telling us , like maybe they caught the virus between doses or shortly after 2nd (takes 10 days after 2nd to fully take effect)

Or they actually had other illnesses, or maybe it is the tiny tiny % of unlucky people that this could possibly happen to - either way it's completely unusual and to present it as a normal occurrence and say "The pandemic rages on" is just pure scaremongering hysterical nonsense.

edit ok, sinovac, that changes things ....

Boggles

TomSweeney wrote: »

Wouldn't surprise me if it's made up, there is some vital info being left out, there is no way a fully vaccinated healthy adult would end up in ICU over covid.

Must be something they aren't telling us , like maybe they caught the virus between doses or shortly after 2nd (takes 10 days after 2nd to fully take effect)

Or they actually had other illnesses, or maybe it is the tiny tiny % of unlucky people that this could possibly happen to - either way it's completely unusual and to present it as a normal occurrence and say "The pandemic rages on" is just pure scaremongering hysterical nonsense.

edit ok, sinovac, that changes things ....

Which is it?

Graham

Silentcorner wrote: »

Well, there have been crowds in stadiums since last January in different parts of the world...

This time, the crowds at games are being broadcast into our sitting rooms every evening....

Awesome, let them at it.

Given the choice between our next planned relaxations and a few matches, I know which I'd chose. I suspect I know what most of the population would chose.

Boggles

Silentcorner wrote: »

Well, there have been crowds in stadiums since last January in different parts of the world...

This time, the crowds at games are being broadcast into our sitting rooms every evening....

It does make things a little awkward doesn't it...I mean, if a guy was on the fence about our Governments pace of easing the restrictions, more and more people will turn on our politicians....public support for these draconian restrictions is vital.

No.

When I was watching the game last night with a pretty sparsely populated crowd at no stage did I feel awkwardness.

The only time I felt a bit awkward was when Rüdiger looked like he bit Pogba.

What the fúck was that about?

Corby Trouser Press

Re Euro 2020 Bilbao are to be compensated to the tune of €1.2m from UEFA.

And Sam Memes stadium is due to host the Women's Champions League Final and the Europa League Final in the future.

All our leadership had to say about it at the time was;

"I thought UEFA were out of order, quite frankly, putting that condition on countries," the Fianna Fáil leader said.

"If you look at what is happening all over Europe in terms of the B117 and in terms of the high incidence in European member state countries, to be putting obligations on countries to force spectators in prematurely, in my view, was a wrong call by the footballing authorities and I never thought it was a realistic proposition if I'm honest."

https://www.otbsports.com/soccer/taoiseach-uefa-out-of-order-over-euro-2020-conditions-1185432

He never thought it a realistic proposition on the 11th of April.

Yet the tournament kicked off on the 11th of June with no issues thus far.

It is almost like the public health authorities in Europe had some sort of an ability to plan ahead and to actually see more then a few days in advance.

That they actually saw a bigger picture.
That they realised outdoor events were not a transmitter.
That vaccination programmes were advancing.
That maybe it is important to continue living and doing and creating rather then just sitting and waiting.

You can peddle the line all you want about big bad greedy UEFA bullying cities across Europe and forcing them to host but it just doesn't stack up.

Were the Dutch "forced" to host Eurovision a few weeks back by the all powerful European Broadcasting Union?
Are the Tennis Majors in Roland Garros and Wimbledon this month being foisted upon the poor meek Parisians and Londoners?

No lads, life is getting back to normal across Europe and Ireland is barely trying to catch up.

3% capacity in Croke Park this Sunday for the Camogie League Final.

seamus

TomSweeney wrote: »

"The Pandemic rages on" What kind of mindset do you need to be in to say that ?

The kind where you're in a foreign country still struggling to cope with the disease and you're seeing people die all over the shop?

I've seen this odd comment made all over the place, in the Torygraph most prominently, that because the disease might be suppressed in one country or one little corner of the world, that it is no longer a pandemic.

The "pan" in "pandemic" refers to it being everywhere. And until it is being suppressed everywhere or in most places, then it's perfectly reasonable to say the pandemic rages on.

ArthurDayne

Graham wrote: »

Awesome, let them at it.

Given the choice between our next planned relaxations and a few matches, I know which I'd chose. I suspect I know what most of the population would chose.

But it’s not a binary choice between those two things.

Corby Trouser Press

Graham wrote: »

Awesome, let them at it.

Given the choice between our next planned relaxations and a few matches, I know which I'd chose. I suspect I know what most of the population would chose.

Why not have both?

gozunda

JRant wrote: »

Half a million people out of work, over 1 million people on waiting lists for hospital appointments, yeah, it was a roaring success. Severe restrictions on peoples lives for prolonged periods of time is not something we should be giving ourselves a pat on the back for.

Exactly what has that got to do with the question posed by the poster to whom I replied? Viz.

But no I don't believe that "Irish Public Health team are uniquely better than the public health experts in the rest of Europe"

Other than yet another useless out of context rant?

Let me quote you on that specific issue.

JRant wrote: »

...Try all you want but I'm not getting into a debate with you on something I didn't say.

Graham

Corby Trouser Press wrote: »

Why not have both?

My guess because we have a measured reopening which means things are being reopened to give the maximum benefit to the most people in order of risk.

I think that's appropriate primarily because I don't want to see us have to delay or roll-back at any point.

Unlike the rest of the EU, our nearest neighbours are concerned about the proliferation of the Delta variant. It's not a major issue here yet, I'd rather keep it that way.

Novel thought.

Maybe some discussion about measures been taken to actually enable the entertainment industry facilitate the "Relaxation of Restrictions"

https://www.rte.ie/news/2021/0615/1228265-boost-of-25-million-for-festivals-and-gigs/

ArthurDayne

Graham wrote: »

My guess because we have a measured reopening which means things are being reopened to give the maximum benefit to the most people in order of risk.

I think that's appropriate primarily because I don't want to see us have to delay or roll-back at any point.

Unlike the rest of the EU, our nearest neighbours are concerned about the proliferation of the Delta variant. It's not a major issue here yet, I'd rather keep it that way.

It’s difficult though to grasp how you are measuring risk in this instance. What significant or substantial additional risk would a 25% capacity Aviva yield?

The streets are full of people drinking, crowds are meeting up, there are house parties going on. I am struggling to understand how the Aviva having 13,000 people spaced out around the arena, in a context where it can be policed and monitored by stewards and police presence on the streets outside, is some sort of huge deviation from what is happening in the country at present and what the government is already allowing people to do (both strictly speaking and in effect).

Like I can understand that, psychologically, the very thought of having supporters inside a big stadium like the Aviva again seems like a really huge shift — it feels like a really big thing. But the mechanics of it, to me anyway, don’t seem overly different to what is actually going on in streets and laneways beside pubs — if anything it would be more strictly policed than that.

JRant

Boggles wrote: »

Indeed, but an appropriate mature analysis would look at it all in context.




Sure.





So in your own good time.

Grand, I didn't say they should have reduced waiting lists so, glad we cleared that up.

Boggles

ArthurDayne wrote: »

It’s difficult though to grasp how you are measuring risk in this instance. What significant or substantial additional risk would a 25% capacity Aviva yield?

You are looking at it in clinical isolation with the benefit of hindsight.

And TBH given what happened in England this week you would imagine certain people would be far more measured.

If they succumbed to UEFA bully tactics and agreed to their terms, there would have been a collective shít attack nationally by invested groups claiming they wanted the same treatment.

It's exactly what is happening in England this week, the net effective is it sows divisions and píssés large groups off. A line has to be drawn somewhere.

Obviously the narrative on this thread that it's a national embarrassment not to host them and we are a laughing stock of Europe resides only peoples minds, the reality is no one cares.

Boggles

JRant wrote: »

Grand, I didn't say they should have reduced waiting lists so, glad we cleared that up.

No you are just perpetually ranting and raving how they increased whilst bemoaning restrictions.

So you didn't really have anything worthwhile to offer?

robbiezero

Boggles wrote: »

You are looking at it in clinical isolation with the benefit of hindsight.

And TBH given what happened in England this week you would imagine certain people would be far more measured.

If they succumbed to UEFA bully tactics and agreed to their terms, there would have been a collective shít attack nationally by invested groups claiming they wanted the same treatment.

It's exactly what is happening in England this week, the net effective is it sows divisions and píssés large groups off. A line has to be drawn somewhere.

Obviously the narrative on this thread that it's a national embarrassment not to host them and we are a laughing stock of Europe resides only peoples minds, the reality is no one cares.

Groups such as?

zackory

Boggles wrote: »

You are looking at it in clinical isolation with the benefit of hindsight.

And TBH given what happened in England this week you would imagine certain people would be far more measured.

If they succumbed to UEFA bully tactics and agreed to their terms, there would have been a collective shít attack nationally by invested groups claiming they wanted the same treatment.

It's exactly what is happening in England this week, the net effective is it sows divisions and píssés large groups off. A line has to be drawn somewhere.

Obviously the narrative on this thread that it's a national embarrassment not to host them and we are a laughing stock of Europe resides only peoples minds, the reality is no one cares.

What UEFA bully tactics?

Did every other nation let UEFA bully them then?

robbiezero

zackory wrote: »

What UEFA bully tactics?

Did every other nation let UEFA bully them then?

Its absolute pony.

Graham

ArthurDayne wrote: »

What significant or substantial additional risk would a 25% capacity Aviva yield?

Don't know, don't particularly care if I'm being honest.

I'd rather see hospitality fully reopened first as it's going to directly benefit a much higher number of people to a much larger extent.

That said I'd have no problem with trial events running.

zackory

Graham wrote: »

Don't know, don't particularly care if I'm being honest.

I'd rather see hospitality fully reopened first as it's going to directly benefit a much higher number of people to a much larger extent.

That said I'd have no problem with trial events running.

Its genuinely hard to see this any time soon. Its just the nature of our slow, cautious reopening which Tony thinks is ambitious.