Relaxation of Restrictions, Part XI *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

charlie14

B2021M wrote: »

Nobody is talking about having faith in suggestions. There was a clear line from the govt which changed quite a bit at the last minute. My only point is it reduces the credibility of the govt in this and other areas.

I really do not know how many times or how many ways I have to say this at this stage.
The U.K. began phased reopening on 12th April based on their level of those vaccinated. Had their eestimate of that level being incorrect it would have shown within 14 days. It didn`t.


Our plan was always to begin reopening based on vaccines ensuring we would not have to go yoyoing back into lockdown, but until the U.K. went at their level, nobody knew what level worked. Several countries had tried at lower levels and got it wrong.


We will basically be reopening on the same level as the U.K. first phase on June 7th. when our levels of vaccination are much the same as the U.K. was on April 12th.

The U.K. had a 4 tests that had to be passed before they moved to the next level of reopening and the same applies here.

B2021M

charlie14 wrote: »

I really do not know how many times or how many ways I have to say this at this stage.
The U.K. began phased reopening on 12th April based on their level of those vaccinated. Had their eestimate of that level being incorrect it would have shown within 14 days. It didn`t.


Our plan was always to begin reopening based on vaccines ensuring we would not have to go yoyoing back into lockdown, but until the U.K. went at their level, nobody knew what level worked. Several countries had tried at lower levels and got it wrong.


We will basically be reopening on the same level as the U.K. first phase on June 7th. when our levels of vaccination are much the same as the U.K. was on April 12th.

The U.K. had a 4 tests that had to be passed before they moved to the next level of reopening and the same applies here.

I agree. So why didnt the govt explain this to people rather than the 'caution caution caution' mantra?

Penfailed

PTH2009 wrote: »

Well i didn't mean it would definitely happen

Jesus Christ is a person allowed say a non positive comment nowadays without getting someone jumping down their throat

I don't want anymore lockdowns ever and want things to back to pre covid times sooner rather than later

If you didn't mean it, why did you say it?

Jesus Christ the constant negativity from you sticks in the throat.

I don't want anymore lockdowns ever and want things back to pre-Covid times sooner rather than later. I can't wait to get to a gig...

Stormyteacup

charlie14 wrote: »

I really do not know how many times or how many ways I have to say this at this stage.
The U.K. began phased reopening on 12th April based on their level of those vaccinated. Had their eestimate of that level being incorrect it would have shown within 14 days. It didn`t.


Our plan was always to begin reopening based on vaccines ensuring we would not have to go yoyoing back into lockdown, but until the U.K. went at their level, nobody knew what level worked. Several countries had tried at lower levels and got it wrong.


We will basically be reopening on the same level as the U.K. first phase on June 7th. when our levels of vaccination are much the same as the U.K. was on April 12th.

The U.K. had a 4 tests that had to be passed before they moved to the next level of reopening and the same applies here.

You can say it as many times as you like. It won’t make it any less of a revisionist nonsense.

Was this plan we always had a secret plan?

hynesie08

PTH2009 wrote: »

A u turn on June's reopening is a sad reality and how damaging will that be for everyone

Big Preparations are going into some pubs for the June 7th outdoor reopening

PTH2009 wrote: »

That magic line of

'The following will considered for June subject to maintaing progress of the virus'

I'm not saying it will happen but the danger is there

Might wanna crack out the dictionary there buddy.

Necro

Gortanna wrote: »

Do the Government? It has been the response for over a year at this stage. No gyms, no sporting activities for people to enjoy. Mental health is on the floor for many.

But what evidence is there to suggest they wouldn't if RTÉ started reporting flu case numbers? Why wouldn't people be calling for a lockdown over hundreds of flu cases, or if the media reported about hospitals being overrun? I don't think it's a ridiculous argument, or a conspiracy theory. It may be unlikely, but it's a very real possibility.

Gortanna wrote: »

And you believe them? In the UK the Government ruled out vaccine passports over and again and are now set to roll them out.

No appetite now, but there might be in the future if RTÉ start reporting on case numbers for the flu. But I hope they won't happen.

If you want to discuss the flu go and do it in another forum, this thread is for Covid-19 discussion. Drop it now

FintanMcluskey

Penfailed wrote: »

I disagree with you here. If money was going to be an issue, we'd never have locked down in the first place.

Interesting logic here

Do you think the lockdown was prepaid or something?

charlie14

charlie14 wrote: »

If you think about it that really does not make a lot of sense.


The plan was that this lockdown would hopefully be the last. Do you think that had nothing to do with vaccines ?
I mean, do you honestly see the easing of restrictions is because nobody looked at the books until last week and then decided suddently we should open up.

When people are fully brought into the narrative that lockdown is a NPHET power trip, or some other nefarious reason, accepting any change which questions that assumption can be difficult.

gozunda

paddyisreal wrote: »

As you constantly state 'follow the science' and are the chief government,nphet apologist I was just wondering how they were so slow on masks, antigen testing, airports.
Maybe they were just a bit slow following the science as you say

Lol Even more stuff which was never said

Link to the comments where I explicitly and "constantly state" "follow the science"? I believe I made that statement just once in relationton to specific research

It may come as somewhat of a surprise but Science is not some intransmutable monolith that primitive savages bow down to. Its a
constantly evolving body of knowledge which is
rigorously challenged by other scientists on an ongoing basis. Hence advice on masks etc

Btw here exactly are the references to Nphet which would indicate any apologist opinion towards them. Do Nphet have a role in managing the pandemic? Yes they do. Is it likley they get absolutely everything right? I doubt it. Are they some secret cabal who are intent on locking us up forever? Despite what some like to believe - no they're not.

But nothing like making stuff up - for the craic like ...

Quick question paddy - do you hold confirmed anti science opinions on all subjects or just the pandemic?

charlie14

B2021M wrote: »

I agree. So why didnt the govt explain this to people rather than the 'caution caution caution' mantra?

What was there to explain.
"It`s important to keep the number of infections down until we reach a level of vaccination that we believe is safe for phased opening up, but nobady has a clue what that level is yet."


They have also urged caution on when phases of opening will occur based on the same 4 tests as the U.K. We will see how that explaination has been heeded when the May 10th. opening data is known.

B2021M

charlie14 wrote: »

What was there to explain.
"It`s important to keep the number of infections down until we reach a level of vaccination that we believe is safe for phased opening up, but nobady has a clue what that level is yet."


They have also urged caution on when phases of opening will occur based on the same 4 tests as the U.K. We will see how that explaination has been heeded when the May 10th. opening data is known.

Fair enough but they havent been explicit about it. Probably as they dont want any comparisons with the UK rollout.

charlie14

Stormyteacup wrote: »

You can say it as many times as you like. It won’t make it any less of a revisionist nonsense.

Was this plan we always had a secret plan?

You didn`t know that reopening, not just here, but practically everywhere was based on vaccines ?

scamalert

B2021M wrote: »

Fair enough but they havent been explicit about it. Probably as they dont want any comparisons with the UK rollout.

well not really a secret look at half of the laws that change here, and youll likely see pattern where UK always makes the first step thus no wonder same applies to covid, always see what big brother does and try not to fall to much behind, nothing scientific otherwise.

charlie14

B2021M wrote: »

Fair enough but they havent been explicit about it. Probably as they dont want any comparisons with the UK rollout.

You cannot be explicit if you do not have the data. They didn`t until 14 days after the U.K. first stage opening.
The world and it`s mother knows the reasons behind the difference in European rollout and the U.K. so I dont see where that comparison would bother them.

B2021M

charlie14 wrote: »

You cannot be explicit if you do not have the data. They didn`t until 14 days after the U.K. first stage opening.
The world and it`s mother knows the reasons behind the difference in European rollout and the U.K. so I dont see where that comparison would bother them.

I agree with you in all of this. It still doesnt explain comments from senior ministers right up until last Thursday. My point is about the way they explain what they are doing.

Sobit1964

B2021M wrote: »

I agree with you in all of this. It still doesnt explain comments from senior ministers right up until last Thursday. My point is about the way they explain what they are doing.

There was movement in plenty of EU countries all at the same time - I wonder if some instructions were sent to the dublin satellite office.

charlie14

B2021M wrote: »

I agree with you in all of this. It still doesnt explain comments from senior ministers right up until last Thursday. My point is about the way they explain what they are doing.

The earliest they were going to see the U.K. 14 day data wax last Monday.

I honestly don`t see what there was to explain before that.

B2021M

charlie14 wrote: »

The earliest they were going to see the U.K. 14 day data wax last Monday.

I honestly don`t see what there was to explain before that.

Explain that that is what they were waiting on would be a start.

charlie14

Sobit1964 wrote: »

There was movement in plenty of EU countries all at the same time - I wonder if some instructions were sent to the dublin satellite office.

There was plenty of movement by E.U. countries that chanced their arm on vaccination levels being right and got caught out, so I would very much doubt that.

charlie14

B2021M wrote: »

Explain that that is what they were waiting on would be a start.

Why and for what reason would that have ant relevance ?

If anything it is more important imo that they get the message across strongly that each level of opening up is dependent on how well the prior level is going.

PTH2009

hynesie08 wrote: »

Might wanna crack out the dictionary there buddy.

I am dyslexic and then autotype

Can we please just agree i said stupid things in the past and present but a lot of it was frustration with the whole thing

Sobit1964

charlie14 wrote: »

There was plenty of movement by E.U. countries that chanced their arm on vaccination levels being right and got caught out, so I would very much doubt that.

Our crack team of mathematicians know more than everyone else.

Penfailed

Stormyteacup wrote: »

Was this plan we always had a secret plan?

It must've been. Loads of people in this thread were bleating about wanting to see a plan. When the plan is laid out, loads of people bleat that the plan is only there because the money has run out. It's just anti-government rhetoric.

B2021M

charlie14 wrote: »

Why and for what reason would that have ant relevance ?

If anything it is more important imo that they get the message across strongly that each level of opening up is dependent on how well the prior level is going.

Ministers were on the media up to hours before the announcement laying out what restrictions were under consideration. Then when the announcement came some items were moved forward considerably. No data was could have been received over a matter of hours that would have caused these changes. It doesnt give the public great confidence.

Penfailed

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Interesting logic here

Do you think the lockdown was prepaid or something?

No.

Interesting logic from you a few weeks back when you had many golf clubs going into liquidation around about now. Also the logic from a few weeks or months before that when you stated that this summer would be the same as last summer. Not a great track record.

AlekSmart

Gortanna wrote: »

Covid marshals: https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/covid-marshals-could-place-until-24003205

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/hertfordshire-county-council-councils-government-england-hertfordshire-b932048.html

As I say, I agree that planning is important, but the marshals are going to be put to work. That's different from something like 'plan for the recruitment of marshals if necessary'. That's why I don't buy the statement by Jim McManus that's linked to in the article. They are recruiting them to put them to work.

I can't link to all the surveys, but the results of YouGov surveys have consistently shown strong support for lockdowns, and even harsher lockdowns.

I think they will be used from now on. I can't see the government allowing hospitals to be overrun every year.

Loosely translated as a new annual winter cleanout of every other ailment or disease in order to save "Our" Health Serrvice from collapse.

Meantime...still no sign of the 579 staffed ICU beds the HSE's own report recommended in 2008....but hey-ho,we're all in this TOGETHER are'nt we ?

No doubt we'll adopt a new grade of HSE Covid Marshal,as it'll be more cost beneficial than recruiting & training an ICU Nurse

charlie14

B2021M wrote: »

Ministers were on the media up to hours before the announcement laying out what restrictions were under consideration. Then when the announcement came some items were moved forward considerably. No data was could have been received over a matter of hours that would have caused these changes. It doesnt give the public great confidence.

Confidence it what. That the U.K. got the vaccination level wrong or that we will not reach that level by June 7th.
They may not be confident that the tests results for moving to other levels will not be meet, but that is up to them not the government.

charlie14

Sobit1964 wrote: »

Our crack team of mathematicians know more than everyone else.

You sound as if you believe the only decision made regarding opening up in stages involved nothing more than a pin and a calendar.

B2021M

charlie14 wrote: »

Confidence it what. That the U.K. got the vaccination level wrong or that we will not reach that level by June 7th.
They may not be confident that the tests results for moving to other levels will not be meet, but that is up to them not the government.

Confidence in what information government ministers feed to the public via the media. Or else confidence in the advice government are receiving.

S_D

charlie14 wrote: »

I really do not know how many times or how many ways I have to say this at this stage.
The U.K. began phased reopening on 12th April based on their level of those vaccinated. Had their eestimate of that level being incorrect it would have shown within 14 days. It didn`t.


Our plan was always to begin reopening based on vaccines ensuring we would not have to go yoyoing back into lockdown, but until the U.K. went at their level, nobody knew what level worked. Several countries had tried at lower levels and got it wrong.


We will basically be reopening on the same level as the U.K. first phase on June 7th. when our levels of vaccination are much the same as the U.K. was on April 12th.

The U.K. had a 4 tests that had to be passed before they moved to the next level of reopening and the same applies here.

This is kind of in line with the re opening of mass outdoor sporting gatherings for July then too I guess, as the UK are doing it now, and were around 2 months behind