Relaxation of Restrictions, Part XI *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

W123-80's

zebastein wrote: »

The topic is more than ever relevant.
There are plenty of restrictions that still need to be relaxed. Maybe I missed something but here is my list of things that have no date yet:

- End of quarantine for people coming to the country (there are dedicated topics though)
- International travel for non essential reasons
- Outdoor events > 15 people
- Retail / gym with no restriction on numbers (I guess gym will start with 50people max in June and retail has a max number based on the size of the shop)
- Restrictions on religious events / funerals / wedding ceremonies (currently limited to 50)
- Wedding receptions allowed
- Other indoor events and organized mass gatherings
- Unrestricted social and family gatherings (indoor + no max number of households)
- Public transport capacity back to 100%
- Indoor restaurants
- Masks not mandatory
- WFH not recommended

Fair point. I agree, they are all very relevant milestones that we should be watching closely.

I guess I was just confused as the debate seems to have moved on from the relaxing of restrictions now that they have stared to relax to bashing the government for stuff they have done, even if its already done and cant be undone! and also bashing them for stuff they should have done.

Valid discussion but this is an odd place for it.

Boggles

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Point proven.

“ I don’t enjoy those things, neither should anyone else”

You are allowed dislike "obligations" Fintan.

:pac:

OwenM

cnocbui wrote: »

We have to learn to accept there is a pandemic, and just live with it, because it isn't going away. Vaccines will be great, up until the point the next vaccine resistant strain pops up and we're off again. Whack a mole. We are not going to eradicate it and there is no stuffing this Chinese genie back in the bottle.

We have to learn to live with it and it's consequences, just as we did previously for influenza.

There are no vaccine resistant strains. Some vaccines have reduced efficacy but none of the strains have been shown to cause serious illness or death in vaccinated individuals.

Yes we do have to live with covid, it is endemic but the epidemic in Ireland is going away, very soon, the pandemic might run for another year or 18 months IMO.

dominatinMC

cnocbui wrote: »

We have to learn to accept there is a pandemic, and just live with it, because it isn't going away. Vaccines will be great, up until the point the next vaccine resistant strain pops up and we're off again. Whack a mole. We are not going to eradicate it and there is no stuffing this Chinese genie back in the bottle.

We have to learn to live with it and it's consequences, just as we did previously for influenza.

Where's the first one?



Clearly we are not going to eradicate it anytime soon, but vaccines will ensure it is more or less negligible in our everyday lives

dominatinMC

Boggles wrote: »

Some of us (me) regard some of them as blessings.

I'm looking at weddings.

I'd rather a bill came in the door than a wedding invitation, if anything hopefully Covid has resigned the 300 close friends and 3 day wedding nonsense to history.

What effect will Covid have on weddings? Mass gatherings are not that far away, these sort of events will be back before the end of the year

zebastein

KanyeSouthEast wrote: »

All of these things actually are the main things that I would like to see gone ASAP.

The second thing I miss the most are events. It is rarely things that are top of the list of anyone because it is difficult to pinpoint to one particular event that people really miss, but if you count all the events you attend during a summer that can be quite a long list:
- food festivals and markets
- Music festivals (Electric picnic, ...)

- sport events you take part in (parkrun every saturday, running/cycling races, tournaments, ...)
- sport events you attend in Aviva, Croke Park...

- charity events
- cultural events (arts/jazz festivals, Bloom...)
- Concerts/theatre/Opera in 3Arena, Bord Gais, Olympia...


They are markers in a year, things that people are usually looking forward to when they are stuck in a routine. Even with retail and gyms open, every week will continue to look like the previous one until we get events back.

Boggles

OwenM wrote: »

Yes we do have to live with covid, it is endemic

Nope, No, Nope.

Doesn't matter how any times you repeat this falsehood it will never make it true.

Vaccines will (hopefully) make it endemic.

bear1

zebastein wrote: »

The topic is more than ever relevant.
There are plenty of restrictions that still need to be relaxed. Maybe I missed something but here is my list of things that have no date yet:

- End of quarantine for people coming to the country (there are dedicated topics though)
- International travel for non essential reasons
- Outdoor events > 15 people
- Retail / gym with no restriction on numbers (I guess gym will start with 50people max in June and retail has a max number based on the size of the shop)
- Restrictions on religious events / funerals / wedding ceremonies (currently limited to 50)
- Wedding receptions allowed
- Other indoor events and organized mass gatherings
- Unrestricted social and family gatherings (indoor + no max number of households)
- Public transport capacity back to 100%
- Indoor restaurants
- Masks not mandatory
- WFH not recommended

See this I don't understand, If I'm fully vaccinated then why do I have to quarantine?

charlie14

the kelt wrote: »

All the people "following the science" and reaching their own conclusions on that science cant move on until the man on the telly tells them its ok!

A bit early attempting to re-write history is it not ?

While some people were predicting we would stay in lockdown forever if we didn`t open up everything right away, others were saying that following the science was the only way to do it.
Now that we are opening up following the science we have the anti lockdown open everything this minute brigade telling us it`s all over. As if it was their ideas that are being followed.
Even for this thread that is twilight zone weird.

eddie73

Boggles wrote: »

Nope, No, Nope.

Doesn't matter how any times you repeat this falsehood it will never make it true.

Vaccines will (hopefully) make it endemic.

We are in the beta stage of the vaccine. There is no shortcut over the ditch, a timeframe of at least 5 years will prove its efficacy. In the meantime, we will have to live with covid despite the presence of any vaccine.

Fandymo

charlie14 wrote: »

I find that people make up ridiculous nonsense on something that wasn`t asked when they wish to avoid answering a question.

You appear to have a problem with people wearing masks, so what is your proposal ?

Like when people are talking about facial expressions being an essential part of communicating, and someone (you) come in talking about banning helmets, as you did??

Penfailed

ArthurDayne wrote: »

Regardless of what side of the debate you fall on, it is truly incredible just how accustomed society has become to restrictions — to the point where (for the purposes of a relaxation of restrictions thread on a discussion forum ) people almost seem to deem some or all of the things you mention as not being restrictions at all.

Do they?

cnocbui

OwenM wrote: »

There are no vaccine resistant strains. Some vaccines have reduced efficacy but none of the strains have been shown to cause serious illness or death in vaccinated individuals.

Yes we do have to live with covid, it is endemic but the epidemic in Ireland is going away, very soon, the pandemic might run for another year or 18 months IMO.

Vaccines provide an environmental natural selection pressure that will likely lead to the evolution of resistant strains. The South African strain is already resistant to the AZ vaccine.

Expect more vaccine resistant strains to develop very soon. In both India and Brazil, deaths in younger age groups have shot up dramatically.

Lumen

cnocbui wrote: »

Vaccines provide an environmental natural selection pressure that will likely lead to the evolution of resistant strains. The South African strain is already resistant to the AZ vaccine.

Expect more vaccine resistant strains to develop very soon. In both India and Brazil, deaths in younger age groups have shot up dramatically.

Technically it's not the vaccines providing the selection pressure it's the immune system, which can be armed either by infection or vaccination.

Even if we had no vaccines we'd still get resistant variants arising.

In fact we'd have more, because you need both the environment and the virus to generate fitter variants. Vaccination cuts down the number of bodies in which variants can develop.

charlie14

Fandymo wrote: »

Like when people are talking about facial expressions being an essential part of communicating, and someone (you) come in talking about banning helmets, as you did??

You do appear confused as you are just proving the point I made that mainly I find people make up ridiculous nonsense when they are attempting to avoid answering a question. I didn`t come in talking about banning helmets. Nor did I proposed banning helmet.

You have a problem with people wearing face masks, so the question again is, what is your proposal ?

Boggles

cnocbui wrote: »

Vaccines provide an environmental natural selection pressure that will likely lead to the evolution of resistant strains. .

What have we 4 strains of concern?

None of these evolved because of vaccines.

They evolved most likely because they rinsed through the populous hit someone with a wonky immune system and came out differently.

Best way to prevent it, is to stop it spreading, best way to do it is restrictions and now vaccines.

paw patrol

Boggles wrote: »

You are allowed dislike "obligations" Fintan.

:pac:

While true you shouldn't celebrate their demise.
i have no like of concerts and festivals - unlikely I'll be seen at one - but i hate seeing them banned.
I certainly wouldn't see their banning as "blessing".

cnocbui

cnocbui wrote: »

Vaccines provide an environmental natural selection pressure that will likely lead to the evolution of resistant strains. The South African strain is already resistant to the AZ vaccine.

Expect more vaccine resistant strains to develop very soon. In both India and Brazil, deaths in younger age groups have shot up dramatically.

https://twitter.com/EricTopol/status/1390079576907280384?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1390079576907280384%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.boards.ie%2Fvbulletin%2Fshowthread.php%3Ft%3D2058177414page%3D436

paw patrol

Deleted User wrote: »

https://twitter.com/EricTopol/status/1390079576907280384?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1390079576907280384%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.boards.ie%2Fvbulletin%2Fshowthread.php%3Ft%3D2058177414page%3D436

Table is interesting and positive to a degree but it's doesn't disprove his point.

cnocbui said South Africa is resistant to AZ. Your table doesn't disprove that.
Your table shows AZ versus UK and Brazil only.

Boggles

paw patrol wrote: »

While true you shouldn't celebrate their demise.
i have no like of concerts and festivals - unlikely I'll be seen at one - but i hate seeing them banned.
I certainly wouldn't see their banning as "blessing".

I never suggested they should be banned.

cnocbui

Deleted User wrote: »

https://twitter.com/EricTopol/status/1390079576907280384?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1390079576907280384%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.boards.ie%2Fvbulletin%2Fshowthread.php%3Ft%3D2058177414page%3D436

Thats great. All's well then...

Indian COVID Strain Spreads in Israel, Also Among Vaccinated

Israel reports dozens of Indian COVID strain cases. The variant is of concern because it consist of two mutations of its protein, which could make it more resistant to the vaccine

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/dozens-of-cases-of-indian-covid-variant-found-in-israel-including-among-vaccinated-1.9758121

paw patrol

Boggles wrote: »

I never suggested they should be banned.

this is true.
But you knew what i meant.

PTH2009

cnocbui wrote: »

Thats great. All's well then...

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/dozens-of-cases-of-indian-covid-variant-found-in-israel-including-among-vaccinated-1.9758121

Everybody panic

Doctor Jimbob

PTH2009 wrote: »

Everybody panic

40 odd cases, 4 of those in vaccinated people. Think I'll hold off on the panic button for now :pac:

paw patrol

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

40 odd cases, 4 of those in vaccinated people. Think I'll hold off on the panic button for now :pac:

that's totally against the spirit of the pandemic
panic is demanded

Boggles

cnocbui wrote: »

Thats great. All's well then...

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/dozens-of-cases-of-indian-covid-variant-found-in-israel-including-among-vaccinated-1.9758121

Bunch of un-vaccinated people catch covid, 90% more than vaccinated.

That sounds like a advert for vaccines TBH.

dominatinMC

Deleted User wrote: »

https://twitter.com/EricTopol/status/1390079576907280384?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1390079576907280384%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.boards.ie%2Fvbulletin%2Fshowthread.php%3Ft%3D2058177414page%3D436

Unfortunately, and it's a bit of a sad reflection on society, some on here will find this as very unwelcome news and will resort to using spurious articles to reinforce their position.

dominatinMC

paw patrol wrote: »

Table is interesting and positive to a degree but it's doesn't disprove his point.

cnocbui said South Africa is resistant to AZ. Your table doesn't disprove that.
Your table shows AZ versus UK and Brazil only.

Has that been proven conclusively? Apart from one dodgy study with huge confidence intervals, I haven't seen much evidence. And what does resistant mean in this instance? Does the strain bypass the vaccine entirely and lead to severe illness and death, or just result in some mild symptoms like a head cold? If it's the latter, the vaccine is still doing it's job

paw patrol

dominatinMC wrote: »

Has that been proven conclusively? Apart from one dodgy study with huge confidence intervals, I haven't seen much evidence. And what does resistant mean in this instance? Does the strain bypass the vaccine entirely and lead to severe illness and death, or just result in some mild symptoms like a head cold? If it's the latter, the vaccine is still doing it's job

i wouldn't know was just commenting on the claim and counter table by reading the table produced by raind. (published 15hours ago ) by somebody who seems of note on twitter - not up to date on who is who on that platform.
But it does seem a recent grid of results.

Fandymo

charlie14 wrote: »

You do appear confused as you are just proving the point I made that mainly I find people make up ridiculous nonsense when they are attempting to avoid answering a question. I didn`t come in talking about banning helmets. Nor did I proposed banning helmet.

You have a problem with people wearing face masks, so the question again is, what is your proposal ?

Not wearing face masks.