Relaxation of Restrictions, Part XI *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

charlie14

cnocbui wrote: »

Vaccines provide an environmental natural selection pressure that will likely lead to the evolution of resistant strains. The South African strain is already resistant to the AZ vaccine.

Expect more vaccine resistant strains to develop very soon. In both India and Brazil, deaths in younger age groups have shot up dramatically.

This virus has evolved strains on its own before the first vaccine went into a an arm. Often in areas where case numbers were high.

Are you saying you believe we should just forget about vaccines and let this virus go merrily about its business unhindered ?

charlie14

Fandymo wrote: »

Not wearing face masks.

Would that be mandatory across the board or would you have exceptions ?

_Kaiser_

charlie14 wrote: »

Would that be mandatory across the board or would you have exceptions ?

Wear one if you (not necessarily you personally!) want/feel safer/feel you're doing your part.

Leave those who don't want to/feel the same as you do alone

Bit cynical

We still have very stringent measures in place according to the stringency index compiled by Oxford researchers. I've highlighted Ireland in red and the grey lines represent other EU/EEA countries. We have tended to be at the top of the index throughout the pandemic and continue to be so after the recent relaxations, other countries having also relaxed restrictions.

charlie14

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Wear one if you (not necessarily you personally!) want/feel safer/feel you're doing your part.

Leave those who don't want to/feel the same as you do alone

Personally even though I have been wear a face mask at work and in shops etc. where I hardly even notice anymore, I have no intention of doing so when we reach a level where they are no longer mandatory.

There will be people, even at herd immunity level, who will not have been able to avail of a vaccine for various medical reasons. I have no problem with your proposal. I just feel there is a bit of an undercurrent of demonising anyone that has too or will choose too wear a face mask when we get to herd immunity level, that I find no need for.

OwenM

cnocbui wrote: »

Vaccines provide an environmental natural selection pressure that will likely lead to the evolution of resistant strains. The South African strain is already resistant to the AZ vaccine.

Expect more vaccine resistant strains to develop very soon. In both India and Brazil, deaths in younger age groups have shot up dramatically.

Nope. Reduced efficacy in a single small study and there's a huge difference between resistance and that.

OwenM

Boggles wrote: »

Nope, No, Nope.

Doesn't matter how any times you repeat this falsehood it will never make it true.

Vaccines will (hopefully) make it endemic.

Pedantry isn't an appealing trait. It will become endemic, with or without vaccines - does that make you feel better?

Boggles

OwenM wrote: »

Pedantry isn't an appealing trait

Is calling out a repeated blatant falsehood pedantic?

I should have thought not.

Boggles

Bit cynical wrote: »

We still have very stringent measures in place according to the stringency index compiled by Oxford researchers.

What are the 9 variables and how are they weighted?

hatrickpatrick

Boggles wrote: »

Some of us (me) regard some of them as blessings.

I'm looking at weddings.

I'd rather a bill came in the door than a wedding invitation, if anything hopefully Covid has resigned the 300 close friends and 3 day wedding nonsense to history.

Other people who are extroverts regard life without large gatherings as life devoid of joy. Regarding it as a blessing that everyone is currently restricted from congregating in large groups is extraordinarily unempathetic towards those who are accustomed to socialising in this manner and for whom living without it for a year has been absolutely psychologically devastating.

PTH2009

https://www.irishpost.com/news/adults-in-ireland-to-be-given-e200-staycation-voucher-for-hotels-and-restaurants-to-boost-tourism-industry-under-new-proposal-211565

Be a nice gesture

zebastein

zebastein wrote: »

The topic is more than ever relevant.
There are plenty of restrictions that still need to be relaxed. Maybe I missed something but here is my list of things that have no date yet:

- End of quarantine for people coming to the country (there are dedicated topics though)
- International travel for non essential reasons
- Outdoor events > 15 people
- Retail / gym with no restriction on numbers (I guess gym will start with 50people max in June and retail has a max number based on the size of the shop)
- Restrictions on religious events / funerals / wedding ceremonies (currently limited to 50)
- Wedding receptions allowed
- Other indoor events and organized mass gatherings
- Unrestricted social and family gatherings (indoor + no max number of households)
- Public transport capacity back to 100%
- Indoor restaurants
- Masks not mandatory
- WFH not recommended

Excellent list, however you overlooked the ultimate spawning ground of them all: Indoor pubs. I nearly shuddered involuntarily there. Hundreds of people congregating in Dunnes or Tesco, Covid turns a blind eye and whistles a tune. A handful of socially distanced punters in the local, better trade the flatcap for the hazmat suit...that Covid spilled more than it ever drank and you don't want to get a pasting.

cnocbui

dominatinMC wrote: »

Has that been proven conclusively? Apart from one dodgy study with huge confidence intervals, I haven't seen much evidence. And what does resistant mean in this instance? Does the strain bypass the vaccine entirely and lead to severe illness and death, or just result in some mild symptoms like a head cold? If it's the latter, the vaccine is still doing it's job

OwenM wrote: »

Nope. Reduced efficacy in a single small study and there's a huge difference between resistance and that.

Well if you'd like to provide links to peer reviewed studies overturning or countering the studies findings, by all means do so.

A study carried out by Oxford and Astra Zeneca together with the University of Witwatersrand in South Africa shows that it does not protect people infected with the variant against mild to moderate Covid, but the researchers believe it will still prevent severe illness, hospitalisation and death.

The study involved more than 2,000 people with an average age of 31, which means they were relatively young and at lower risk. So scientists cannot yet be certain the protection remains against serious disease, but they think it’s likely.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/feb/07/covid-variants-and-vaccine-resistance-all-you-need-to-know

Captain_Crash

cnocbui wrote: »

Well if you'd like to provide links to peer reviewed studies overturning or countering the studies findings, by all means do so.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/feb/07/covid-variants-and-vaccine-resistance-all-you-need-to-know

You’ve just proved the other posters point! The vaccines as they are today prevent serious illness hospitalisation and death! So....... what’s the problem?

zebastein

PTH2009 wrote: »

https://www.irishpost.com/news/adults-in-ireland-to-be-given-e200-staycation-voucher-for-hotels-and-restaurants-to-boost-tourism-industry-under-new-proposal-211565

Be a nice gesture

Remember 2020 and the infamous "Stay and Spend" scheme where politics told us to go and spend our euros because we'll be able to claim tax credit on your hotel and restaurant expenses. Until the summer was finished and they decided that only expenses after 1st October qualify. I am not even sure anyone claimed anything.


There is a gap between the idea which looks good and what you get at the end.

bear1

PTH2009 wrote: »

https://www.irishpost.com/news/adults-in-ireland-to-be-given-e200-staycation-voucher-for-hotels-and-restaurants-to-boost-tourism-industry-under-new-proposal-211565

Be a nice gesture

The thing is, trapped in a place where the best you can hope for is a week or so of 20 degrees and spending a fortune won't compare to being able to take the same money and spend less somewhere sunny.
People have been trapped enough in the country, giving them 200 euro to spend which can end up with the government closing everything all over again is a waste of time.

M_Murphy57

bear1 wrote: »

The thing is, trapped in a place where the best you can hope for is a week or so of 20 degrees and spending a fortune won't compare to being able to take the same money and spend less somewhere sunny.
People have been trapped enough in the country, giving them 200 euro to spend which can end up with the government closing everything all over again is a waste of time.

How many nights in Kerry will my e200 get me if 3 nights costs e4k?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.joe.ie/amp/life-style/joe-duffy-listener-complains-quoted-e4100-three-night-hotel-stay-kerry-summer-721295

bear1

M_Murphy57 wrote: »

How many nights in Kerry will my e200 get me if 3 nights costs e4k?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.joe.ie/amp/life-style/joe-duffy-listener-complains-quoted-e4100-three-night-hotel-stay-kerry-summer-721295

A bottle of evian.

Silentcorner

Hotels are in a real bind....

Their Wedding business has been decimated.
Their Commercial business has been decimated.

Some one is going to pay to allow the Hotels reopen.

M_Murphy57

zebastein wrote: »

Remember 2020 and the infamous "Stay and Spend" scheme where politics told us to go and spend our euros because we'll be able to claim tax credit on your hotel and restaurant expenses. Until the summer was finished and they decided that only expenses after 1st October qualify. I am not even sure anyone claimed anything.


There is a gap between the idea which looks good and what you get at the end.

60000 people claimed roughly 1/270th of what the government "budgeted"

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.irishtimes.com/business/transport-and-tourism/stay-and-spend-scheme-take-up-well-below-estimates-1.4547272%3fmode=amp

I cant believe a complex scheme involving minimum spends in winter in Ireland followed by mind bending filings with the revenue for tiny refunds wasnt wildly popular

[/saracasm]

Penfailed

zebastein wrote: »

Remember 2020 and the infamous "Stay and Spend" scheme where politics told us to go and spend our euros because we'll be able to claim tax credit on your hotel and restaurant expenses. Until the summer was finished and they decided that only expenses after 1st October qualify. I am not even sure anyone claimed anything.


There is a gap between the idea which looks good and what you get at the end.

It's in the article - €200 million set aside, less than €10 million claimed.

Boggles

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Other people who are extroverts regard life without large gatherings as life devoid of joy.

Sorry, if you can't go to a wedding with 300 people your life is joyless?

Absolute nonsense.

Boggles

M_Murphy57 wrote: »

How many nights in Kerry will my e200 get me if 3 nights costs e4k?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.joe.ie/amp/life-style/joe-duffy-listener-complains-quoted-e4100-three-night-hotel-stay-kerry-summer-721295

So some lad sees price of 5 star hotel he has no intention of booking and rings Joe to complain about it?

Fúck me. :rolleyes:


Anyway

Killarney Dromhall Hotel for 2 nights in July, 2 people €366 with breakfast. 4 star.

Edit:

He actually ended up getting the 2 rooms in the hotel he usually stays in for what he normally pays.

I got the hotel that I would normally get, that was €716, which is probably what you would pay anywhere, that is for three nights, two single rooms, with bed and breakfast

Whatsisname

Boggles wrote: »

Sorry, if you can't go to a wedding with 300 people your life is joyless?

Absolute nonsense.

My god, you’re actually insufferable.

ArthurDayne

Boggles wrote: »

Sorry, if you can't go to a wedding with 300 people your life is joyless?

Absolute nonsense.

This is the kind of thing that can make debating with you extraordinarily frustrating. You have taken the poster’s comments and attempted to jam them into a ludicrously narrow hole of interpretive literalism. The poster’s position is clear, and he / she was clearly not limiting their point to 300+ people weddings. Christ above, when it comes to a wedding, a guest doesn’t decide the guest list — whether it’s 50 people at a wedding or 300+, people might just enjoy a gathering that isn’t subject to stringent restrictions.

This really should not have to be explained, and it comes across as discussion in bad faith in my opinion.

Boggles

ArthurDayne wrote: »

This is the kind of thing that can make debating with you extraordinarily frustrating. You have taken the poster’s comments and attempted to jam them into an ludicrously narrow hole of interpretive literalism. The poster’s position is clear, and he / she was clearly not limiting their point to 300+ people weddings. Christ above, when it comes to a wedding, a guest doesn’t decide the guest list — whether it’s 50 people at a wedding or 300+, people might just enjoy a gathering.

This really should not have to explained, and it comes across as discussion in bad faith in my opinion.

The post he replied to was literal and very specific.

He decided to go the hyperbolic route.

I can only reply to what someone posts.

Thank you for your help, but you completely missed the point.

FintanMcluskey

Bit cynical wrote: »

We still have very stringent measures in place according to the stringency index compiled by Oxford researchers. I've highlighted Ireland in red and the grey lines represent other EU/EEA countries. We have tended to be at the top of the index throughout the pandemic and continue to be so after the recent relaxations, other countries having also relaxed restrictions.

That’s one of the biggest issues with RTE throughout this.

They are now a government agenda broadcast channel

When other countries were slightly tightening their citizens freedom it was highlighted as headline news, despite the fact Ireland was still in a league of its own

When Ireland finally forms a roadmap, the message is that because Ireland have been so suppressed for so long, reopening is now possible while Europe closes. Turns out it’s not the case at all.

Inter county travel is possible Monday, about a year after most other countries banished ridiculous blanket travel restrictions

On a side note I’m fascinated at the fact Irish citizens are almost twice as eager to get the vaccine, which I must add I’m getting myself to be allowed travel

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.thejournal.ie/irish-people-struggled-more-than-most-europeans-with-lockdown-5427597-May2021/%3famp=1

It showed that Irish citizens are the most eager of all Europeans to get a vaccine against Covid-19 with 70% wanting it as soon as possible compared to the EU average of 42%.

Only 4% of Irish respondents said they would never get the vaccine – a third the rate of the EU average of 12%.

Of course likely because most Europeans haven’t been living under severe suppression for 14 months like the Irish have

Boggles

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Of course likely because most Europeans haven’t been living under severe suppression for 14 months like the Irish have

Any Irish person living under "severe suppression" for 14 months was doing it by choice.

Also the fact that a survey has suggested we will have a high uptake on the vaccine is a wonderful thing, a wonderful thing you have managed to spin into a negative.

Exhausting.

Sobit1964

Boggles wrote: »

Any Irish person living under "severe suppression" for 14 months was doing it by choice.

Also the fact that a survey has suggested we will have a high uptake on the vaccine is a wonderful thing, a wonderful thing you have managed to spin into a negative.

Exhausting.

Although they are Americans in this article - it echos your words - it's true that some in ireland can't let it go either - have a rest you will recover from exhaustion quicker than covid.

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2021/05/liberals-covid-19-science-denial-lockdown/618780/

Degag

M_Murphy57 wrote: »

How many nights in Kerry will my e200 get me if 3 nights costs e4k?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.joe.ie/amp/life-style/joe-duffy-listener-complains-quoted-e4100-three-night-hotel-stay-kerry-summer-721295

Anywhere from one to two.

A quick search on booking.com lists a number of hotels with rates of €100-€150 or so per night,

Pure sensationalist stuff that thing on Joe Duffy.