Relaxation of Restrictions, Part XI *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

Ballynally

It seems clear to me that NPHET's worse case scenario is a misnomer.
It can not be based on a data analysis. Instead, it looks like a multiplier using a single nr with no other parameters interacting.
It can not be other than deliberately misleading knowing what we know from the UK and other places. It is either incredibly stupid to present this 'model' or it is actually a smart way of injecting more fear into society, via the media's uptake. It is extremely hard to reject the idea of an agenda behind it.
It might become a pivital moment for the government and could set up a series of backlash moments.

Red Silurian

sp00k wrote: »

Honestly, some people... I'm not protesting 'not being able to drink inside a pub'. I'm protesting the decimation of livelihoods across the country.

So you're protesting against the virus?

Fitz*

funnydoggy wrote: »

Socially distant seats. You book a seat (or a few seats) and they lock seats around you so you aren't near anybody.


Increased ventilation too I'd assume.

Wonder if cinemas can start serving meals, as you know, it's safe to eat inside there but not safe to eat inside a restaurant apparently.

Or maybe Pennys will start serving meals & drinks. As they don't even need social distancing or numbers restrictions inside. Because inside Pennys is safe but pubs are not.

lawred2

Red Silurian wrote: »

There will be undoubtedly demonstrations, but think about what you are protesting... That you can't drink inside a pub... I mean... Is it that big a deal?

Maybe you should have a think

Sobit1964

Red Silurian wrote: »

So you're protesting against the virus?

Again - thats not what people are protesting.

seamus

VinLieger wrote: »

Not to mention the vast majority of wait or bar staff wont be vaccinated yet

If you're only letting vaccinated people inside, then the staff aren't being put at any extra risk. The staff are all milling around indoors together as it is.

Billgirlylegs

eskimohunt wrote: »

I've always loathed that phrase.

Science tells you the facts, not what ought to be done with those facts.

There are all manner of potential interpretations and actions, which should be done by politicians who must consider all society and economic factors, and not by NPHET who have only a one dimensional interpretation of how to act.

Scientists who use the phrase "following the science...", as if there is only one possible interpretation, are actually being very much anti-scientific in their conclusions.

Agreed.

Scientific findings are regularly disproven.
Scientific "facts" are merely one person's opinion.
There is an old joke about scientists using pencil to document research findings - easily erased once their "facts" are later disproved.
There is a radio program where a famous scientistic consistently waffles about "the science changes", you see.

namloc1980

NIMAN wrote: »

I don't understand the 2 week delay at all.

So in 2 weeks time, the Delta variant won't be an issue? But it is now?

If anything, it will be more hyped up and worrying in 2 weeks, 4 weeks, 8 weeks.
what about the next variant after Delta?

I can see more delays to reopening, its not just this one. Brace yourselves.

Well they are projecting total doom in August and September and end of the world stuff come January. As you say brace yourselves for a horribly restricted winter. NPHET have the country firmly in their grip.

I like many others thought we'd be in a brilliant place by now and we are, millions vaccinated (yes), very low number in hospital and ICU (yes), stable and low case numbers (yes). We've hit all the metrics and yet he we are with absolute doom and gloom from NPHET worse than anything that's come before and government lapping it up and to hell with the economic consequences. :mad::mad:

Sobit1964

seamus wrote: »

If you're only letting vaccinated people inside, then the staff aren't being put at any extra risk. The staff are all milling around indoors together as it is.

Plenty of evidence that vaccinated, double jabbed or not can and do spread the virus.

VinLieger

seamus wrote: »

If you're only letting vaccinated people inside, then the staff aren't being put at any extra risk. The staff are all milling around indoors together as it is.

But vaccinated people can still spread it.

agoodpunt

Uk look at it very differently the are already more open than us,
Here's another way of putting it: based on recent trends, cases of COVID-19 on 19 July could be at around two thirds of the levels they peaked at in the winter. But, on the same trends, hospitalisations could be barely more than a tenth of the winter peak (they were running at over 4,000 a day in early January).

Hurrache

titan18 wrote: »

Tbh, when they're giving advice based off ridiculous data, there's a serious question as to what their purpose is. Either they can stand over that data or they can't, and if they can't, their advice is worthless tbh and there's no need for them.

The question as to what their purpose is is not the issue, we know their purpose and it's a necessity, there's a reason for the existence of such organisations the world over.

AdamD

seamus wrote: »

If you're only letting vaccinated people inside, then the staff aren't being put at any extra risk. The staff are all milling around indoors together as it is.

Yeah, but its morally reprenhesible to have staff working in bars & restaurants that they themselves aren't allowed to attend in their spare time due to being of the younger population who have been put bottom of the list to receive vaccines for a virus as they are by far and away the least vulnerable to it.


There's a logic gap in here somewhere. The virus barely affects young people so bottom of the list for vaccines, but when they're the only ones not vaccinated they still can't live their lives freely, unless of course they're needed to serve you food and drink.

Its frankly disgusting and I'd be shocked if it happens

zebastein

Red Silurian wrote: »

There will be undoubtedly demonstrations, but think about what you are protesting... That you can't drink inside a pub... I mean... Is it that big a deal?

Or that the people of a country have their freedom restricted, not because of an increasing death number, not because of an increasing hospitalization number, not because of an increase case numbers, but because of a "potential".

So this is not based on facts anymore, not an health emergency but politics, because "potential" and "predictions" are politics. They are based on assumptions made by a single group of people. How is it different to say "if we open the pubs, we will have a big wave of deaths" than any regular politician that says "if we tax the companies, we will have a massive unemployement rate because companies will leave Ireland". These are opinions, one scenario amongst other scenarios. You support them or you don't but usually there is an opposition and a vote.

So your freedom, not only to go to the pub but to meet indoor, to organize events indoor, to go to the swimming pool ... is restricted because someone said there is a threat.

When a dictatorship in a foreign government restricts the rights of their people, like if they prevent them from demonstrating in the street for reasons of safety, we condemn them. "They use safety as an excuse to push their own political agenda". How is it different here ?

mojesius

The opposition parties are a fcuking joke in all this as well. Not a whimper from them about the need to reopen now. Or did I miss something among the scaremongering from NPHET the last few days?

I feel so sorry for all the business owners whose doors remain shut and debt piling up.

seamus

VinLieger wrote: »

But vaccinated people can still spread it.

At considerably lower rates though, we know that. The unvaccinated staff pose a graver risk to eachother than vaccinated customers do.

Sobit1964

Hurrache wrote: »

The question as to what their purpose is is not the issue, we know their purpose and it's a necessity, there's a reason for the existence of such organisations the world over.

Wrong. When they are so demonstrably bad at their job - there is most certainly a question as to their purpose.

Gael23

Plan to only allow vaccinated dine indoors looks to be illegal under the equality act

Hurrache

Sobit1964 wrote: »

Wrong. When they are so demonstrably bad at their job - there is most certainly a question as to their purpose.

No, there is no question as to their purpose.

We've ****ty governments and state bodies in the past, did we go all hysterical and abolish the notion of a government and live in chaos since?

Nope, it's dumb idea to try justify the abandonment.

namloc1980

mojesius wrote: »

The opposition parties are a fcuking joke in all this as well. Not a whimper from them about the need to reopen now. Or did I miss something among the scaremongering from NPHET the last few days?

I feel so sorry for all the business owners whose doors remain shut and debt piling up.

On this. The Banks have been showing massive levels of forbearance for the last year or so especially on business loans. Bad debts are piling up on Bank's balance sheets and those are going to come home to roost at some point as businesses are being forced to closure. That's another bill that will be presented to the taxpayer to pay.

seamus

Sobit1964 wrote: »

Wrong. When they are so demonstrably bad at their job - there is most certainly a question as to their purpose.

Considering the Republic has in fact done incredibly well in the local geographical region in terms of the impact of this virus, it seems at best misinformed to say that NPHET are "bad" at their job.

They've certainly made a few missteps; even dropped a couple of clangers. But we've managed to get through this with a few scorch marks while our neighbour's house was a towering inferno. Credit where credit is due.

Surprise, surprise!

https://twitter.com/FergalBowers/status/1409751053042597891

bennyl10

seamus wrote: »

If you're only letting vaccinated people inside, then the staff aren't being put at any extra risk. The staff are all milling around indoors together as it is.

Vaccinated people can still spread the virus?

Staff are being put in a unacceptable level of risk with this plan

Sobit1964

Hurrache wrote: »

No, there is no question as to their purpose.

We've ****ty governments and state bodies in the past, did we go all hysterical and abolish the notion of a government and live in chaos since?

Nope, it's dumb idea to try justify the abandonment.

Thats a fools logic - and exactly why we are in this mess.

OwenM

Gael23 wrote: »

Plan to only allow vaccinated dine indoors looks to be illegal under the equality act

The whole 'vaccinated only' thing is a kite flying exercise IMO. Micheal will come out on the podium tonight and announce two more weeks before pubs open and we will all breathe a sigh of relief but if we weren't all so worked up about the kite, we'd be mad about the two more weeks.

eviltimeban

I'm angry this morning. I've been supportive all along, as I felt that the indoor dining opening up was a real sign that this is over.

But I'm angry today.

Millions have been vaccinated. The elderly are protected. Vulnerable are protected. The hospital numbers are very low. Case numbers are down. Zero deaths in weeks?

Why oh why oh why. Why aren't we opening. WHY.

But what can be done? Email the TDs, an email they won't read? March on the streets, to be lumped in with the loony anti-vax brigade?

That's the frustration of it. Knowing nothing can be done.

I feel sorry for those business folk who were making plans to open next week, full of optimism for the summer ahead, after a long, long winter and spring. Denied.

It sucks major you know what.

Doctor Jimbob

Hurrache wrote: »

No, there is no question as to their purpose.

We've ****ty governments and state bodies in the past, did we go all hysterical and abolish the notion of a government and live in chaos since?

Nope, it's dumb idea to try justify the abandonment.

I agree there's no question as to their purpose.

There is, however, a question as to their competence.

Edit: I also don't think NPHET should be disbanded, but they should be questioned as to how they arrived at some of the figures published in their letter to government. I just can't see where they're coming from at all.

francogarbanzo

Red Silurian wrote: »

There will be undoubtedly demonstrations, but think about what you are protesting... That you can't drink inside a pub... I mean... Is it that big a deal?

Yes.

VinLieger

OwenM wrote: »

The whole 'vaccinated only' thing is a kite flying exercise IMO. Micheal will come out on the podium tonight and announce two more weeks before pubs open and we will all breathe a sigh of relief but if we weren't all so worked up about the kite, we'd be mad about the two more weeks.

And in a weeks time NPHET will have worse predictions because cases and hospitals numbers will be up by 2%

Ballynally

Maybe i can take over a pub. Vaccinated staff serving vaccinated people.
It gives us 50+ people a career opportunity.
Nice background instrumental music, little peat fire at the back. People quietly chatting over their pints. Comely older maidens.
Actually sounds pretty good to me.
Oh, and armed guards at the door��.