Relaxation of Restrictions, Part XI *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

suicide_circus

Deleted User wrote: »

There's no rhyme or reason to it, random arbitrary dates based on idle speculation and nothing more.

I like to picture Tony and Donnelly crouched and gibberng in a moonlit glade casting rune stones spattered with the blood of freshly sacrificed chicken in order to come up with the right dates.

paddyisreal

suicide_circus wrote: »

I like to picture Tony and Donnelly crouched and gibberng in a moonlit glade casting rune stones spattered with the blood of freshly sacrificed chicken in order to come up with the right dates.

Well according to some posters here it has been planned to the most minute detail and all to do with following the science for the last year where I'd say your theory above is more accurate

suicide_circus

suicide_circus wrote: »

I like to picture Tony and Donnelly crouched and gibberng in a moonlit glade casting rune stones spattered with the blood of freshly sacrificed chicken in order to come up with the right dates.

I am sure these is a fetish forum somewhere for this

suicide_circus

Deleted User wrote: »

I am sure these is a fetish forum somewhere for this

Its this forum!

charlie14

Silentcorner wrote: »

But I can't ignore numerous elements that simply don't make sense.

Also the huge body of health, medical and academic experts who signed the Great Barrington Declaration...60,000 of them I think it is at this stage...who advocate for a much different approach.

I also have that problem. Not being able to ignore elements that simply don`t make sense and the Great Barrington Declaration is one of them.

It is a document signed by such medical and academic experts as Dr Harold Shipman, various homeopaths, Dr I. P. Freely, Dr Person Facename, DR Johnny Bananas who is a specialist Dr of hard sums, etc.
It is a complete load of nonsense backing acquired herd immunity and was launched with a champagne media event at the headquarters of the American Institute of Economic Research (AIER) in Great Barrington Massachusetts

AIER is a libertarian think tank committed to "pure freedom" and has funded other research such as a study that extolled the benefits of sweatshops suppling multinationals, and studies downplaying global warming.
It is a partner in the Atlas network of think tanks which acts as an umbrella for free market libertarian institutes whose funders include tobacco firms, ExxonMobil and the Koch brothers.

Penfailed

paddyisreal wrote: »

Well according to some posters here it has been planned to the most minute detail and all to do with following the science for the last year where I'd say your theory above is more accurate

Which posters? I haven't seen anyone say that the relaxation has been planned to the most minute detail.

paddyisreal

Penfailed wrote: »

Which posters? I haven't seen anyone say that the relaxation has been planned to the most minute detail.

just being a tad sarcastic about some posters who tell us constantly the government are following the science...

Silentcorner

charlie14 wrote: »

I also have that problem. Not being able to ignore elements that simply don`t make sense and the Great Barrington Declaration is one of them.

It is a document signed by such medical and academic experts as Dr Harold Shipman, various homeopaths, Dr I. P. Freely, Dr Person Facename, DR Johnny Bananas who is a specialist Dr of hard sums, etc.
It is a complete load of nonsense backing acquired herd immunity and was launched with a champagne media event at the headquarters of the American Institute of Economic Research (AIER) in Great Barrington Massachusetts

AIER is a libertarian think tank committed to "pure freedom" and has funded other research such as a study that extolled the benefits of sweatshops suppling multinationals, and studies downplaying global warming.
It is a partner in the Atlas network of think tanks which acts as an umbrella for free market libertarian institutes whose funders include tobacco firms, ExxonMobil and the Koch brothers.

Well...considering our societies have never embarked on such a draconian, unscientific health policy that involves removing civil liberties to varying and often baffling levels, you can expect people in the industry to have a variety of positions...the absence of such discourse is a much greater cause for concern with long reaching implications.....you aren't in any position to naval gaze...especially when you turn your nose at backing acquired herd immunity whilst we are rolling out a vaccine to pretty much do the same thing....

PTH2009

suicide_circus wrote: »

I like to picture Tony and Donnelly crouched and gibberng in a moonlit glade casting rune stones spattered with the blood of freshly sacrificed chicken in order to come up with the right dates.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dvYvQeNeq3A

paddyisreal

PTH2009 wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dvYvQeNeq3A

that looks like the British conference going in their now at the moment

paddyisreal

just listening to patrick vallance there and his explaining of how the relaxations in the uk are decided to some extent by the modellers saying there is going to be some continued residual reduction in transmission hence they can move things forward. square that up against our crowd and they go the opposite way looking for the worse case scenario. Dont think mcconkey and nolan would last to long over there.

charlie14

Silentcorner wrote: »

Well...considering our societies have never embarked on such a draconian, unscientific health policy that involves removing civil liberties to varying and often baffling levels, you can expect people in the industry to have a variety of positions...the absence of such discourse is a much greater cause for concern with long reaching implications.....you aren't in any position to naval gaze...especially when you turn your nose at backing acquired herd immunity whilst we are rolling out a vaccine to pretty much do the same thing....

And attempting acquired herd immunity as advocated by your Barrington Declaration which you support is a scientific policy ?
You may have missed it but it has been tried in a European country and failed miserably. Even the architect who implemented it had eventually to admit attempting it was unethical.

If you believe there is no difference between attempting to achieve herd immunity through vaccination and achieving it naturally, then you have spent too much time focusing your own navel and not enough focusing on the folly of attempting naturally acquired immunity for Covid-19..

Silentcorner

charlie14 wrote: »

And attempting acquired herd immunity as advocated by your Barrington Declaration which you support is a scientific policy ?
You may have missed it but it has been tried in a European country and failed miserably. Even the architect who implemented it had eventually to admit attempting it was unethical.

If you believe there is no difference between attempting to achieve herd immunity through vaccination and achieving it naturally, then you have spent too much time focusing your own navel and not enough focusing on the folly of attempting naturally acquired immunity for Covid-19..

What European Country?

charlie14

Silentcorner wrote: »

What European Country?

Seriously :eek:

Silentcorner

charlie14 wrote: »

Seriously :eek:

Seriously...

I am aware of a few US States that took the scientific route and they have fared very well...economy booming, infections on a par with everyone else...but do tell, what European country was the scientific route a disaster?

charlie14

Silentcorner wrote: »

Seriously...

I am aware of a few US States that took the scientific route and they have fared very well...economy booming, infections on a par with everyone else...but do tell, what European country was the scientific route a disaster?

Now I am not even sure what you are asking at this stage
Are you claiming that attempting to gain herd immunity naturally for Covid-19 is the scientific route ?

Silentcorner

charlie14 wrote: »

Now I am not even sure what you are asking at this stage
Are you claiming that attempting to gain herd immunity naturally for Covid-19 is the scientific route ?

No no...you don't get to dodge this one...what European country that followed the scientific route (as in advocated by leading experts including John Ioannidis ) regarding their approach to the pandemic ended up in a disaster?

As I said, I am aware that Florida took the scientific route last September amongst other States in the US...recently Texas...major population centres, and by the way I am aware that they live in a different climate with a better health service so I don't believe that we could justify what they have done.

I understand the need for restrictions, I completely object to the unscientific lock downs to which we have been subjected to!!!

charlie14

Silentcorner wrote: »

No no...you don't get to dodge this one...what European country that followed the scientific route (as in advocated by leading experts including John Ioannidis ) regarding their approach to the pandemic ended up in a disaster?

As I said, I am aware that Florida took the scientific route last September amongst other States in the US...recently Texas...major population centres, and by the way I am aware that they live in a different climate with a better health service so I don't believe that we could justify what they have done.

I understand the need for restrictions, I completely object to the unscientific lock downs to which we have been subjected to!!!

Oh no no no..... you do not get to dodge the question that easily.
It`s very simple. Are you calling naturally acquired herd immunity as the scientific route for dealing with Covid-19. Yes or no ?

Silentcorner

charlie14 wrote: »

Oh no no no..... you do not get to dodge the question that easily.
It`s very simple. Are you calling naturally acquired herd immunity as the scientific route for dealing with Covid-19. Yes or no ?

How am I in a position to advocate for any such thing...I'd imagine if you put 1,000 leading experts in one room, they wouldn't be able to definitively agree on that one!!!!

Now, please, for the second time, can you specify what European country you were referring to when you you stated the following

"You may have missed it but it has been tried in a European country and failed miserably"

No country in Europe went for natural herd immunity as far as I am aware, countries took different approaches to restrictions, some, like us went for much more draconian severe anti scientific lock downs!

charlie14

Silentcorner wrote: »

How am I in a position to advocate for any such thing...I'd imagine if you put 1,000 leading experts in one room, they wouldn't be able to definitively agree on that one!!!!

Now, please, for the second time, can you specify what European country you were referring to when you you stated the following

"You may have missed it but it has been tried in a European country and failed miserably"

No country in Europe went for natural herd immunity as far as I am aware, countries took different approaches to restrictions, some, like us went for much more draconian severe anti scientific lock downs!

You have been quick enough putting forward the names of experts that support your position on lockdown as an argument against it as if they were in possession of the fountain of knowledge, yet after citing the Barrington Declaration that advocated natural herd immunity you now suddenly have no opinion on it.

Totally disingenuous posting.

Silentcorner

charlie14 wrote: »

You have been quick enough putting forward the names of experts that support your position on lockdown as an argument against it as if they were in possession of the fountain of knowledge, yet after citing the Barrington Declaration that advocated natural herd immunity you now suddenly have no opinion on it.

Totally disingenuous posting.

Says he trying to snake his way out of stating what European country he was referring to.....

I have expressed my opinion multiple times, I understand the need for restrictions, but I object to the severe prolonged anti scientific lock downs that we have been subjected to...I can't be any clearer than that.

As for the GBD I have no doubt that many of the experts would have varying opinions in what constitutes a proportional response to the pandemic, but they have been very clear in their objection to lock downs, as has John Ioannidis one of the worlds leading experts on this matter.

niallo27

charlie14 wrote: »

You have been quick enough putting forward the names of experts that support your position on lockdown as an argument against it as if they were in possession of the fountain of knowledge, yet after citing the Barrington Declaration that advocated natural herd immunity you now suddenly have no opinion on it.

Totally disingenuous posting.

What European country though.

charlie14

Silentcorner wrote: »

Says he trying to snake his way out of stating what European country he was referring to.....

I have expressed my opinion multiple times, I understand the need for restrictions, but I object to the severe prolonged anti scientific lock downs that we have been subjected to...I can't be any clearer than that.

As for the GBD I have no doubt that many of the experts would have varying opinions in what constitutes a proportional response to the pandemic, but they have been very clear in their objection to lock downs, as has John Ioannidis one of the worlds leading experts on this matter.

On naturally acquired herd immunity for Covid-19 ?
No you have not expressed your opinion even though you have been asked numerous times.

Their was only one response to the pandemic advocated by the Great Barrington Declaration that those you call experts sign and you cited as an alternative to lockdown. Naturally acquired herd immunity.

paddyisreal

niallo27 wrote: »

What European country though.

I heard the Vatican city achieved herd immunity for all of its 900 citizens after a new delivery of altar wine resulted in a super spreader event.

charlie14

niallo27 wrote: »

What European country though.

Are you asking because you do not know or are you an advocate of the Great Barrington Declaration solution for dealing with Covid-19 ?

Silentcorner

charlie14 wrote: »

On naturally acquired herd immunity for Covid-19 ?
No you have not expressed your opinion even though you have been asked numerous times.

Their was only one response to the pandemic advocated by the Great Barrington Declaration that those you call experts sign and you cited as an alternative to lockdown. Naturally acquired herd immunity.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Barrington_Declaration

The authors of the GBD are experts.

You mightn't agree with them, but they are experts.

It is my recollection that these were the people who influenced Ron DiSantos the Governor of Florida who followed their approach to great effect.

Silentcorner

charlie14 wrote: »

Are you asking because you do not know or are you an advocate of the Great Barrington Declaration solution for dealing with Covid-19 ?

Jesus Christ!!!

ceadaoin.

charlie14 wrote: »

On naturally acquired herd immunity for Covid-19 ?
No you have not expressed your opinion even though you have been asked numerous times.

Their was only one response to the pandemic advocated by the Great Barrington Declaration that those you call experts sign and you cited as an alternative to lockdown. Naturally acquired herd immunity.

No, that isn't the only one response at all. It advocates for herd immunity through infection and also vaccines. And focused protection of the most vulnerable which is something that has previously been a main tenet of public health.

As immunity builds in the population, the risk of infection to all – including the vulnerable – falls. We know that all populations will eventually reach herd immunity – i.e. the point at which the rate of new infections is stable – and that this can be assisted by (but is not dependent upon) a vaccine. Our goal should therefore be to minimize mortality and social harm until we reach herd immunity.

The most compassionate approach that balances the risks and benefits of reaching herd immunity, is to allow those who are at minimal risk of death to live their lives normally to build up immunity to the virus through natural infection, while better protecting those who are at highest risk. We call this Focused Protection.

Adopting measures to protect the vulnerable should be the central aim of public health responses to COVID-19. By way of example, nursing homes should use staff with acquired immunity and perform frequent testing of other staff and all visitors. Staff rotation should be minimized. Retired people living at home should have groceries and other essentials delivered to their home. When possible, they should meet family members outside rather than inside. A comprehensive and detailed list of measures, including approaches to multi-generational households, can be implemented, and is well within the scope and capability of public health professionals.

paddyisreal

charlie14 wrote: »

Are you asking because you do not know or are you an advocate of the Great Barrington Declaration solution for dealing with Covid-19 ?

Is it the same country where drunk driving is the same as a priest giving mass in a rural area ? We could play guess the country all night !

charlie14

Silentcorner wrote: »

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Barrington_Declaration

The authors of the GBD are experts.

You mightn't agree with them, but they are experts.

It is my recollection that these were the people who influenced Ron DiSantos the Governor of Florida who followed their approach to great effect.

You cited the Great Barrington Declaration pointing to how many had signed it as an alternative to lockdown, and you have expressed your belief of other experts you have named, so why so shy now to express whether you agree or not with the Barrington Declaration ?